the thing about GITB is that it makes sense for a character to have a song when they make an important decision in a musical, but it's just. not a very good song. and the fact that it's kinda bad is really the problem more than anything else
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@lizbiandykely
the thing about GITB is that it makes sense for a character to have a song when they make an important decision in a musical, but it's just. not a very good song. and the fact that it's kinda bad is really the problem more than anything else
i think chuffrey can tell us five facts about glinda but glinda can't tell us five facts about chuffrey
chuffrey's facts are like:
-hot
-gillikinese
-had this roomate from college named aelphaba or some shit that she won't shut the fuck up about
-does NOT want kids
-has a friend named crope
and glinda's are like:
-rich
-not hot
i am someone who is very compelled by the dynamic between carol/hive!zosia and is also very curious about the impending dynamic between carol and an individual zosia BUT i must say i do not like the sort of stursia fandom consensus about the way an unhived zosia should/will be. it seems very common in fanfic portrayals of zosia for her to be so angry with carol and often downright mean even outside of that context, and i don't find that to be the most compelling angle for a couple of reasons.
the most simple is, if carol is this total grouch who takes everything incredibly personally and can never keep her cool and typically refuses to give people the benefit of the doubt, how is it narratively interesting for zosia to be somewhat similar? shouldn't she be opposite in some ways? wouldn't it be better for her to be suave and charming and, more than that, forgiving? and, as a bonus, wouldn't this personality fall in line with the little snippets we know about raban's character? wouldn't it be interesting if the hive chose *zosia* specifically not just because she looked like raban but because she was similar to him in other ways?
in a similar vein, it's far more interesting if Zosia The Individual rejects carol's worldview? carol seems to try to recognize the hive as one life form occupying all the bodies in the world, but she also does seem desperate to maintain those bodies' individuality, and part of that is her extreme guilt for her actions as her relationship with zosia unfolds. she feels like she's taking advantage (of zosia, of the waitress, of everyone). i don't think it's as interesting for zosia to just. agree with that, and then for carol to hang her head. after all, carol is at her most interesting when she's defending herself!
instead, i propose two possible avenues for a more nuanced conflict: zosia either sees the hive as a little bit of herself and by extension sees their actions as her actions (or at least something akin to her actions) OR she sees the hive as totally alien from herself and is basically like Why Would You Feel Bad About Dating Them? They Are Them. I Am Me. personally, i prefer the latter, as i think it could be done in a way that is either her genuine opinion or as a distancing that is ultimately a coping mechanism for the horror of being bodysnatched. and i'm not saying that i don't think carol is taking advantage, but i am saying i don't think it's that interesting if that is all that zosia feels. i think she has to be more complicated than that. most importantly, i think she cannot just agree with carol's worldview. i actually think she should repeatedly be annoyed that carol seems so determined to get her to agree with her worldview.
ultimately, i just don't think most fanfic where she's her own person gives her more than 3 personality traits, and i find her reaction to being unplurbed to be repetitive and contrived at best and just flat out unrealistically simple at worst.
stursia nation, i leave you with this: if carol is all anger, zosia should be all something else.
i feel like what i mean by this is being slightly misinterpreted, so what i mean by this is that i find something like this to be more interesting than the very popular "you are a horrible person who took advantage of me and i hate you" spiel:
“Sorry,” Carol said quickly. She sat up and drew her hand back from Zosia. “I shouldn’t have– I’m sorry.”
“Are you always this dramatic?” Zosia pulled Carol back down against her with a firm hand at the back of Carol’s neck. “You don’t have to go anywhere. I’m not mad at you.”
“I would be mad.”
Carol was tense against Zosia’s chest. Zosia took slow, steady breaths. She watched Carol rise and fall with them. The pressure felt good, and the skin-to-skin helped her to feel connected to her body in a way she hadn’t realized she needed so badly.
“You really have taken all this in stride,” Carol continued. “I thought you’d have a much bigger reaction. I mean, I certainly did. I actually hid the knife block in the kitchen in case you wanted to try to kill me.”
“Do you always expect people to react to everything the way you would?” Zosia asked, fully aware of the tone she was taking.
“Hey, I’m trying to empathize with you here,” Carol said, but even though her muscles tensed, she didn’t dare try to move away from Zosia again.
“Are you?” Zosia challenged. “Or are you looking for me to punish you?”
basically i want zosia to frustrate carol and be this sort of strange person she has trouble connecting with and understanding when all she wants is someone she can connect with and understand. manousos (mad at the world, standoffish) is perfect for that, but she doesn't want him, she wants zosia, and so zosia has to be the exact opposite
i am someone who is very compelled by the dynamic between carol/hive!zosia and is also very curious about the impending dynamic between carol and an individual zosia BUT i must say i do not like the sort of stursia fandom consensus about the way an unhived zosia should/will be. it seems very common in fanfic portrayals of zosia for her to be so angry with carol and often downright mean even outside of that context, and i don't find that to be the most compelling angle for a couple of reasons.
the most simple is, if carol is this total grouch who takes everything incredibly personally and can never keep her cool and typically refuses to give people the benefit of the doubt, how is it narratively interesting for zosia to be somewhat similar? shouldn't she be opposite in some ways? wouldn't it be better for her to be suave and charming and, more than that, forgiving? and, as a bonus, wouldn't this personality fall in line with the little snippets we know about raban's character? wouldn't it be interesting if the hive chose *zosia* specifically not just because she looked like raban but because she was similar to him in other ways?
in a similar vein, it's far more interesting if Zosia The Individual rejects carol's worldview? carol seems to try to recognize the hive as one life form occupying all the bodies in the world, but she also does seem desperate to maintain those bodies' individuality, and part of that is her extreme guilt for her actions as her relationship with zosia unfolds. she feels like she's taking advantage (of zosia, of the waitress, of everyone). i don't think it's as interesting for zosia to just. agree with that, and then for carol to hang her head. after all, carol is at her most interesting when she's defending herself!
instead, i propose two possible avenues for a more nuanced conflict: zosia either sees the hive as a little bit of herself and by extension sees their actions as her actions (or at least something akin to her actions) OR she sees the hive as totally alien from herself and is basically like Why Would You Feel Bad About Dating Them? They Are Them. I Am Me. personally, i prefer the latter, as i think it could be done in a way that is either her genuine opinion or as a distancing that is ultimately a coping mechanism for the horror of being bodysnatched. and i'm not saying that i don't think carol is taking advantage, but i am saying i don't think it's that interesting if that is all that zosia feels. i think she has to be more complicated than that. most importantly, i think she cannot just agree with carol's worldview. i actually think she should repeatedly be annoyed that carol seems so determined to get her to agree with her worldview.
ultimately, i just don't think most fanfic where she's her own person gives her more than 3 personality traits, and i find her reaction to being unplurbed to be repetitive and contrived at best and just flat out unrealistically simple at worst.
stursia nation, i leave you with this: if carol is all anger, zosia should be all something else.
An Archive of Our Own, a project of the Organization for Transformative Works
finished the last part of my lil pluribus bottle fic, if you love carol sturka and want to see an unhived zosia that is a proud and haughty pirate who loves to push her buttons in the worst (best) way possible
Green is a really interesting colour for Glinda to wear in the musical, because it's associated both with Elphaba and with the Emerald City (and by extension the Wizard). So green is associated with 2 opposing forces, and Glinda is associated with both of them, which creates some ambiguity about the association of the colour when she wears it. On the one hand, she wears green for thank goodness and the engagement ball, which both occur in the Emerald City and involve events in which she is appearing as a public figure in association with the Wizard. So her wearing green can be read as her assimilating into EC culture and displaying her allegiance to the Wizard. On the other hand, she openly states in thank goodness that she misses Elphaba, and is incredibly relieved to see her alive on the day of the engagement ball. It's clear that she still thinks about her a lot, and her choice to wear green could be seen as a visual nod to her former roommate.
The way I see it, Glinda wearing green comes off as an incredibly early act 2 Glinda kind of resistance. In her own view, green represents Elphaba and she wears it in support or perhaps remembrance of her. But to everybody else, green is associated with EC and the Wizard, so her wearing it seems normal and even expected. And this makes it very ineffective as an act of resistance as it only serves to make her feel better, and looks like an act of compliance to everyone else.
It's also worth noting that the last time she wears green is in INTG reprise, at which point the life she had imagined for herself as Glinda the Good working under the Wizard completely falls apart. The next time we see her, she's ditched the green in favour of blue. I have seen it argued that the blue is in reference to Elphaba since she wears blue in act 1, but I do think that's a bit of a reach given that they're such different blues and that Elphaba wears blue mainly because it's one of the two Shiz uniform colours. (Look at it that way if you like, though, I'm always in favour of making Wicked gayer) But Glinda switching to blue definitely can be seen as her beginning to distance herself from the Wizard and Morrible and stepping into her own identity as Glinda the Good.
somebody should really remind elphaba that when she wants to leave discouraged and resigned, that's what they want her to do. that she should really think about how she'll grieve for all she leaves behind. that oz belongs to her, too.
An Archive of Our Own, a project of the Organization for Transformative Works
i'm supposed to be doing revisions for my project for grad school that is on a deadline because i'm submitting it to a competition but i wrote a second part to my big stursia fic instead. anyways now it's gonna be a 3 parter and i've already outlined pt 3. so yeah.
Carol Sturka's favorite sound in the whole world is a train horn. It's her favorite because it's the loneliest sound.
Carol Sturka, who learned she was different from how she was supposed to be when she was a teenager. She was betrayed by someone who was supposed to love her, who instead sent her to a conversion camp to force her to be like everyone else.
Carol Sturka, who was the only person who showed up to the survivors' meeting with a reluctantly accepted chaperone, an individual who was previously a stranger to her. When she first arrives, everyone except for her is accompanied by family members who'd joined the hive. Every survivor at this meeting tells Carol she's overreacting, that the hivemind isn't so bad, and that there's nothing they can do anyway. No one asks her why she's alone. No asks if she lost anyone during the joining.
Carol Sturka, who investigates and learns more about the hive all on her own. Despite the fact that it's too late to get her wife back, she still thinks the world is worth saving. Despite the other survivors' disinterest in her plans, she shares what she learns with them anyway, in case she can change their minds.
Carol Sturka, who gets so close to curing the infected people that the hivemind abandons her. She is completely alone for forty days.
Carol Sturka, who learns that the other survivors got her videos and ignored them. She learns they all talk on a regular basis and do not include her.
Carol Sturka, who when Koumba, the one survivor who is sometimes nice to her, sighs tiredly at her wanting to talk more about the problem, instead of pushing ahead, backtracks and says she was just kidding. She couldn't get out of there fast enough. Of course she doesn't want to stay, of course she doesn't need anybody.
Carol Sturka, who was not told that there was another survivor traveling across continents, literally almost dying, all to get to her, because of their shared goal, until he was only two hours away. She gets nervous at this news, because the hivemind makes him sound unstable. She meets with him anyway.
Carol Sturka, who tries to give in. She's tired and lonely and maybe it is easier to drink the kool aid. But she fails, because once more in her life, someone claiming to love her has betrayed her, by wanting to force her to become like everyone else.
Carol Sturka, whose favorite sound is a train horn. Who had never told a soul that it's her favorite sound. Because it's the loneliest sound in the world.
See the thing is that I know on paper that musical Glinda and movie Glinda are pretty much the same character but for some reason they just don't hit the same. Musical Glinda is one of my favourite things to exist in the whole wide universe and she's beautiful and amazing and I love her and she consumes my every waking thought (barely an exaggeration) and movie Glinda I...like.
i get what you mean because especially in wfg i thought the character left Something To Be Desired. i wish she were more performative and flamboyant! she's at her best when she's rolling around on the ground during popular and then they just never let her do that again
gelphie for a friend's birthday :p
'Tonal whiplash' is a criticism I've heard made against Wicked (the musical) quite a lot and I agree that it is there but that's actually one of the things I love about it. Like, yeah, we did just go from "Haha they're having a silly little slapfight" to "Oh god they murdered her sister as a trap to capture her" to "Haha look at that silly man on that rope swing" to "Oh god he's pointing a gun in Glinda's face" to "Haha look at those silly little guards running around like idiots" to "OH GREAT HEAVENS HE IS BEING CRUCIFIED" over the space of like. 2 minutes. What of it?
possibly the funniest thing about this is that wfg's attempts to fix this only made it like 10x worse
i find it amazing that some people genuinely think glinda was trying to work within the system to make positive change when she was with the wizard. like best case scenario she was Secretary of Parties and did literally nothing productive for 3 years
An Archive of Our Own, a project of the Organization for Transformative Works
well. after some time, here is the next chapter of that gelphie thing i've been working on where they're on the lam together. much is happening to them, but they still have time for goofing. for example, enjoy this quick exchange about the death of elphaba's father.
--
“Not even,” Elphaba said. “But I’m sure our childhoods were very different.”
“How so?” Glinda asked, her head cocked sweetly to the side.
“I assume people were nice to you,” Elphaba reminded her.
Glinda poked her lip out. Elphaba watched her brow furrow, her eyes crinkling with pity.
“If I could, I would give little Elphie the biggest hug, and then I would threaten her father with a mallet.”
"So soon after his death?" Elphaba quipped.
"No, in this scenario you're little Elphie, and I've gone back in time."
every take i see on the ice hotel scene pisses me offf you people don't understand anything. "oh carol is ruining this experience for helen why does she hate everything that brings her wife joy" "oh helen is forcing carol to do things and go places she doesn't want to." like i know it's crazy but sometimes you choose to do something you don't completely want to because it makes someone you love happy, and that's more important to you than always staying in your comfort zone. and carol's complaining during that scene is at least 50% joking around in a way helen clearly finds funny and endearing ("it kinda looks like a screensaver :)"). this isn't a scene there to show us all the cracks and faults in their relationship or whatever, it's doing the exact opposite, it's showing us how strong it is, how well they know each other and how comfortable they are with each other. enough to say "hey i'll do this with you because you love it and i love you and in return you'll listen to me talk a bit of shit and i trust you to know it doesn't mean i'm actually upset. and then i'll shut up and let you cuddle with me and i won't say out loud how nice it all is but i know you know anyway"
the sheer idea of people being critical of their relationship in this scene is making me so annoyed because how do you not recognize that it's specifically written to contrast how good it is that helen pushes carol to do things outside of her comfort zone with the hive's ultimate enabler attitude. it's just "we're happy to take the alcohol interlock system out of your car :)" but from a new angle.
something i really really love about pluribus is that nearly every interaction where both people are unhived involves some form of bickering or obstination, which is not only funny but framed as something to be cherished and to be missed in this new world. there is value in butting heads with somebody! it means you're passionate enough to make the effort to disagree!
i lowkey love when i'm reading a post-canon gelphie fic and glinda's like deep in the governing work and the author just casually drops in that she's trying to help establish an ozian democracy and hold fair elections. it's so cute because yes that's absolutely what she should do but also so funny because a) how the fuck does she know to do that?? living under imperial rule for her entire life would probably mean she'd need to do a lottt of research to even learn what a democracy is, especially because oz is so isolated from any neighboring lands and b) you have to decide a motivating factor for why ambitious glinda wouldn't want to be in charge anymore.
my favorite is that she doesn't actually want to do any of the work you have to do to be In Charge so she's doing a ton of work on the front end to be able to get back to just cutting ribbons and eating pastries as soon as possible
For Good never fails to be the gayest shit ever. Just look at them. This is how people who are in love look at each other.
do you guys remember when mary kate morrissey was tracing "i love you" on ginna claire mason's back at the end of this song