San and the "Grand Duke of the North"
or, some musings on an idol persona's impact and legacy
Atiny will sometimes speculate about when Ateez had their "big break," or when things really shifted for them in terms of popularity, recognition, and commercial success. Was it the Wonderland era, Guerrilla era, Bouncy era...? While there are valid arguments for each on a global scale, when it comes to domestic (Korean) fame, it's hard to argue against the impact of Golden Hour: Part. 2 and its title track Ice On My Teeth, released in November 2024.
I also don't think it's wrong to claim that San was a major part of that success, thanks to the "Grand Duke of the North" character assigned to him by ktiny and Korean media.
Before we jump in, let's first understand San's approach for each comeback.
San's Arena Homme interview (August 2025)
When it’s time to work - whether it's on stage or in front of a camera - a different version of me steps forward and does his best to embody the role. I think that naturalness gets captured by the camera. It’s not acting; it’s me fully accepting and expressing the role. These transformations feel natural and comfortable now....
I don't like pretending. It’s hard for me. So when I’m in that situation, I consciously tell myself “This is who I am,” and I focus completely....If I’m not fully immersed, there’s a risk of disconnect for the viewer. I need to accept it completely so it can move others.
Along with Seongwha, San has shown the greatest difference between his on-stage and off-stage personas. He embodies and expresses the theme and mood of each concept, delivering heightened and emotional performances that often transcend the expectations and conventions of his industry. This has earned him the respect of his peers (especially juniors) and has also made him the target of harassment from kpop stans.
But for Golden Hour: Part 2, the mafia-adjacent concept of Ice On My Teeth really resonated with fans. San's character is cold, calculating, and dangerous. He's also sexy and alluring.
His performance style for IOMT leaned away from bold, expressive gestures; instead, the choreography called for deft footwork and precise, almost robotic movements. This reinforced the story of San's character, who suppresses his violent nature under the guise of gentlemanly manners. At the same time, San does so much with just the quirk of an eyebrow. What he pulls off during his Last Supper performance solo deserves its own post (and I've written one).
His IOMT fancams were also the most watched of any other members.
KQ clearly understood the mandate. In a previous post, I discussed San's styling for fan events during the last few eras. To summarize: for Work, Crazy Form, and Bouncy, whose extreme concepts had San dressing like a sexy cowboy, sexy dystopian anarchist, and sexy boxer, stylists would opt for "soft boyfriend" looks with oversized cardigans and fuzzy sweaters when it came to off-camera events. This worked to diffuse his "scary" or "intimidating" impression. But for Ice On My Teeth, stylists dressed San like a CEO, putting him in crisp button-up shirts, oversized blazers, and long floor-length coats. This reinforced his romanticized image as cold, aloof, and potentially dangerous - even when posing with giant furry paws.
To be clear, I regard all these personas as a kind of hypermasculine drag performance. IOMT is just a different flavor.
When it came to their end-of-year stages, San's styling favored sleek, form-fitting outfits which drew attention to his undeniable masculine attractiveness. His KGMA performance (left) went viral, and for good reason.
Around this time, ktiny and knetz began commenting on videos, IG posts, and in forums, calling San the "Grand Duke of the North."
The name derives from a popular webcomic, whose protagonist bears a striking resemblance to San, as does the love interest of another romance webcomic Serena.
HYPEJACK: ATEEZ SAN has become the living embodiment of “Grand Duke of the North", a fantasy archetype known for icy charisma, power & striking visuals. From his dark, tailored outfits to his commanding stage presence, fans couldn’t help but liken him to a fantasy noble.
Whether it’s his sharp features, broad shoulders, or all-black fashion, San continues to serve major Duke aesthetics even in everyday life. It’s like he stepped right out of a fantasy novel.
San's "Grand Duke of the North" persona became a truly viral phenomenon that spread from fan cams to magazines, variety shows, and top luxury brands.
For his appearance at fashion week in March, Dolce & Gabbana clearly dressed him with the Grand Duke in mind.
Note: "DG Grand Duke of The North's Birthday"
(I was a little let down by this styling, compared to San's other appearances with the brand. But you can't deny he looks good.)
San first responded to the nickname in March 2025 during a live after his D&G fashion week appearance:
This time while I went to the D&G show, I think what I heard the most.. wherever I was, I heard it about 50 times in a day! That.. there's a word 북부대공 right? I heard it 50 times a day! People would be like 'It's because he's 북부대공' so I was *acting shy and embarrassed* ..ahhh!
Really, as I wondered what it meant, I actually looked it up, you know?ㅎ Anyhoo, it didn't mean anything bad.. yes.. my face is getting red right? Ah as I think of back then, I think I heard it 50 times a day, really! so like when I was grilling the meat, they would say 'oh he grills meat well~ as expected, he's indeed a 북부대공 Whatever I did, they would day 'u're 북부대공' so this was a bit- *getting shy and sips his drink*.. anyhooㅎㅎ
As it's a nice thing to say, I did feel nice about it~ but, because I heard it so many times, you know what I mean, I felt really shy.. hm.. *reading comments* you're saying that if I type out 북부대공 on naver, I'll show up? really?ㅎㅎ *checks naver* what!
Yes?? Does it show up if I type it on youtube? *checks yt* yes! What's this~ no, I had heard about it, but it's something like Truman Show- oh only I was unaware~~ah thank you~ as a keyword like this has been created (for me) thank you~ yes"
translation by @sunshine_1117
It's funny how bashful he was with this realization, but I also wonder at him being completely unaware of the nickname in the 3-4 months following IOMT's release. Of course, they were on tour in Europe for most of that time, but it implies a real disconnect or disengagement between Korean media/knetz and Ateez (or San, at least). I'm not sure I buy that, but who knows!
We are now about 10 months removed from Ice On My Teeth, yet the popularity of the Grand Duke shows no signs of waning. During promotions for Golden Hour: Part 3, San received invitations to appear on variety/digital shows primarily because of the impact and success of the Grand Duke.
Part of the reason for the Grand Duke's continuing popularity is that Golden Hour: Part 3 did not have a strong, character-driven concept. Lemon Drop was promoted as a sultry summer song, and while KQ made sure to emphasize San's assets in the roll-out for the new album, there was no new persona for San to embody.
Instead, many fans held onto the image of San as the sexy, intimidating, powerful Duke, and this applies to both international and domestic fans, only some of whom I would call atiny.
I think this has helped San. I also think this has harmed San.
Here's where my thoughts gets more speculative. I've read really compelling meta from mutuals who differ about San's response to the Grand Duke phenomenon, particularly during this past era. Is he trying to become more like the Grand Duke as his idol image matures? Is he trying to distance himself?
How has this persona affected his on-screen dynamics with other members, especially those with whom he engages in fan service? (this is a topic for another post I'm working on)
I think San has been trying for a while to uncouple the Grand Duke from his preferred idol persona. He wants to be known as a strong, exciting performer, but he also really wants people (not just atiny) to view him as a sweet, shy introvert who loves strawberry mochi and speaks in pout.
From his interview for Arena Homme, August 2025:
On stage, I give it everything I have, like flipping on a switch. I want the people who come to see me to leave feeling it was worth it, so I pour my energy into the performance. Off stage, I spend time recharging. No one can live at 100% all the time. I go into power-saving mode so I can be at my best when I step on stage. Contrary to the sharp image people expect, I’m actually quite soft offstage.
In interviews, he does his best to diffuse the impression people have as scary and intimidating (something Mingi also suffers from).
His variety show appearances have also felt like a PR campaign to shift the public's impression of him. This has been largely successful, thanks in part to indulgent female hosts and a sympathetic editing team (as we know, KBS is San-biased).
The members have also done their part in reinforcing the difference between Grand Duke San and their Sannie.
Seonghwa, who understands better than most the art and artifice of the idol persona, has been particularly valuable in this effort. In their Hometown episode and on their Ateez+ dates, he treated San like a cute younger brother whom he loves to tease.
To be clear, I don't believe San resents or dislikes the Grand Duke nickname and all that it signifies. In his recent interview with Arena Homme, he said his favorite era was Ice On My Teeth because it introduced him to so many new people.
With atiny, of course, he'll always defer to what makes us happy. In a recent TOKTOQ pop live, San said he likes everything - whether it's "The Grand Duke of the North," "Gimmick Grand Duke," or "Muscle-Packed Grand Duke," he's fine with any nickname. He told everyone to just call him whatever comfortable.
Can he really have it both ways?
This meta was inspired by San's recent appearance on the reality survival show Boys Planet II, where young men compete to debut in a new boy group. San was selected as "Planet Master" a role that implies he's status as a respected artist in the industry and a role model to aspiring idols.
But it's clear the producers at Mnet weren't just inviting San. They wanted the Grand Duke. You have to watch his introduction, which I've since learned is unlike anything they've done for other Planet Masters on the show before.
Poor San was visibly nervous, having to endure those stairs and everyone's attention. His appearance went viral, and this tweet was the most popular I've seen:
"Master San is so fkn reassuring. If any of the boys act trashy he is so gonna put them on the straight and narrow" (thank you @storkmuffin for the translation)
Many knetizens were surprised by San's stern appearance or confused by how he spoke:
너무 무섭게 생겨서 혹시 지금 화난거냐고 에이티니한테 물어보니까 최산 지금 개떨고있는데 왜지랄이냐함
He looks so scary that I asked ATINY if he was angry right now, and Choi San said he was shaking like a dog right now, what the hell is going on?
진짜 개간지나게 등장해서 저러고 내려와서 느와르인 줄 알았는데 입 열기 시작하니까 톤이 너무 잔잔해서 보다 잠들 뻔했음
I thought it was a noir because he came out so cool and came down like that, but when he started to open his mouth, the tone was so calm that I almost fell asleep.
What's interesting are the responses to the tweet from ktiny who say some variation of: you may think he's this way, but you don't know him the way we do.
Here are some of the translated quote-retweets:
이분 그런 분 아니세요 잘 때 인형 꼬옥 안아야 잠드는 분이십니다
This person isn't that kind of person. He's the kind of person who has to hug a doll to fall asleep.
최산 예전에 약간 무서운 사람 같아서 찾아봤었는데 그냥 당근 못 먹고 딸기모찌 좋아하고 성화 방에 가서 꾸물꾸물 거리는 애란 걸 알게 됨
Choi San used to be a bit scary so I looked him up and found out he was just a kid who couldn't eat carrots, liked strawberry mochi, and would go to Seonghwa's room and laze around.
아 이런 상황 영원히 웃김 타팬분들: 누아르ㄷㄷ스릴러ㄷㄷ무섭고멋져… 에이티니: 산둥이 잔뜩 긴장햇네… 곧 우는 거 아냐? 너무 웃겨 귀여워
Ah, this situation is so funny. Top fans: Noir, thriller, scary and awesome... ATINY: San looks so nervous... Isn't he about to cry? This is so funny and cute.
숙소 가면 한 손에 딸기 케이크 한 손에 여상이 쥐여줘야 한다는 말 영원히 웃김 진짜.
It's so funny that when you go to your dorm, you have to hold a strawberry cake in one hand and a Yeosang in the other.
ATINY around the world are clearly united in disseminating propaganda about the real San. Newer or more casual fans may be lured in by the Grand Duke persona, but the fandom machine does a good job of correcting any misconceptions.
As for San, he went on live to discuss his Boys Planet appearance and did much the same kind of image maintenance:
You’re asking if I was nervous? Yes, I was nervous. Because everyone was only looking at me, I got nervous. Was I the only one sweating like that? But since there was no fan, no tissue, I just kept sweating…
Why did I come down from the top? Uh… I think they arranged it for me, hahaha. Yes… I think they cared so that I’d come out looking good. Yes, please look forward to Boys Planet which will be revealed soon. I already know, since I finished filming it.
No, no, definitely not. Grand Duke of the North, you’re exaggerating~~
San may seek to distinguish between personas when it comes to how ATINY perceive him off-camera, but it's more complicated when it comes to his career and aspirations as an artist.
When it came to his solo for In Your Fantasy, San asked Hongjoong for a sexy song and wrote lyrics that tapped into the darker parts of his mind:
The intention? The concept… well… From the start… it moves like this, then like that *san demonstrates choreo*
It's pretty direct: "I feel like a creep". Like, I… kind of feel that way. Like… I see myself as someone I can't stand. It's a really simple expression of "me". What I feel.
It might come off like acting, but for me, I do feel like someone who hates himself sometimes, it's like a dry heave *san talking about the spitting smoke move*
So the movement comes from that emotion. Yeah, that's one way to feel it. You can think of it however you like. Maybe it's acting, or like… I couldn't stand it and I was like "eeakk". It might involve some level of self-hatred, but I didn't want to lock it into one meaning. I wanted it to be open to interpretation. Like an open ending.
translation by @incandescentsandbox
San continues to challenge himself within the narrow confines of the concept. He elevated a "sexy" song into a discourse on desire, restraint, and self-loathing. In many ways, this song feels like the natural extension of the Duke of the North persona, but modulated to San's personal register.
So where am I going with this?
I definitely agree with the fandom that IOMT unlocked a new level of fame and popularity for San, and by extension Ateez. This has manifested in exciting opportunities for San, from invitations to MC survival shows to partnerships with luxury brands like Tag Heuer.
But these also seem like invitations that San accepted, rather than pursued. And these opportunities primarily center on San's physical appearance and persona, rather than his talents as a singer, dancer, and performer.
The last time we saw anything like the latter was his appearance on Lee Mujin's Service, before the release of Golden Hour: Part 2. Notice how he's styled for that: fluffy hair, fluffier sweater. Soft boy.
By comparison, his members have spent the last several months pursuing personal passion projects: Hongjoong as a producer and featured artist with musicians he admires; Seonghwa as a model and muse; Yunho as an actor; Mingi and his solo projects; Wooyoung collaborating with Gallant; Jongho with his OSTs; and Yeosang with his fitness journey and solo mv.
Where are San's OSTs? Where are his collaborations? What about another performance video like Warrior?
To my knowledge, San has never expressed an interest in fashion, but he clearly understands the benefit of being associated with luxury brands. As he himself said in a recent interview, for these solo schedules he attends as San of Ateez. Being the most famous and recognizable member comes with the responsibility and privilege of opening new doors for the others to walk through.
But what does San want? He clearly does not want to leave Ateez, despite the cries of his solo stans.
Individually, I’m happiest when I’m with my bros, and if we’re not ATEEZ, I thought, it was meaningless.
San will only get more famous from here, but will he grow? I want him to have every opportunity to perform and for the world to see him as a performer, and not a model for expensive watches. Will the legacy of the Grand Duke prove to be fortuitous or an albatross?
I leave you with San's speech at the Elle Style Awards last year, where he won 'Best K-Pop Icon':
“I will strive to become a Choi San who has the scent of a human before becoming an artist who would not be ashamed in front of my grandfather who is watching from afar.”
ellievsbear
tangentwithtanner
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