Maple Moon

She/Her • Undertale/Ace Attorney fan

[tainebot01]

Regarding the NEO Machine.

A while back I noticed the bizarre detail of the gold statue from the Spamton Sweepstakes event being described in an oddly similar way to the NEO Machine... and it got me thinking about how the introduction of NEO in chapter 2 has left us with so many unanswered questions.

So I did the reasonable thing, and documented all the characters majorly connected to the NEO vessel in Deltarune as one does.

and, well…

I think I’ve made the Deltatheory equivalent of a cognitohazard. Read on if you’re interested, but be warned.

Starting off simple, there are several characters that directly connect to Deltarune’s NEO:

The Hacker, Swatch, Spamton, the Werewires, and the unknown Lightner who designed The NEO Machine in the first place.

(Note that while Mettaton is also referenced in various ways throughout the Spamton NEO battle, there is yet to be a direct throughline between Undertale’s Mettaton NEO and Deltarune’s NEO Vessel despite the obvious parallels between the two. I’ll explain a bit more later…)

The Hacker is the NPC with the blue checkmark sidequest and hints towards the existence of the secret beneath the palace. He’s constantly making gamerisms and takes pains to remind you he’s The Hacker despite No One Asking. Not much to note here other than his design referencing a completely different NEO. Honestly, you could probably unlock NEO without this guy, but good luck trying to find the hidden switch without having a cursor to point it out for you.

Not gonna waste my breath too much here since everyone knows Spamton is part of the NEO subplot. The short version is this: On the Normal route, you end up making a deal with him to sneak on through to the basement, transfer date from the LoadedDisk, and upload him to the machine so he can reach Heaven, while on the Weird route, your jackass stunts result in enough chaos to allow a certain spambot to breach Queen’s defenses.. to the point the final battle is less of a final line of heroic defense, and more trying to keep you from screwing him over at the good part.

Swatch is another pretty obvious one, being the art application based darkner who helped build the NEO machine before it was discarded... and who oddly shares a counterpart in the form of the librarbian in Undertale, complete with colour-coded books. Swatch also oddly feels the need to cover up the existence of NEO, which feels a little excessive considering the spelling tiles, teacup rides, mazes and electrical puzzles that act as barriers on the way to NEO.

Then there's the Werewires, the alternative forms of the plugboys citizens of Cyber City who resemble common 9-to-5 workers and end up brainwashed by Queen's control wires before you free them by snapping the wires, much like you end up freeing SNEO... And have I mentioned that Ramb, the plugboy who leads you onto the sword route, was given meaning by Kris playing with him? And this distorted sense of meaning is precisely what leads to the plug-n-play hell that is the Sword Route? Freedom’s for the Big Shots after all… though unfortunately, constantly alluding to the fandom buzzwords isn’t enough to save Ramb from being frozen in stone by the end of chapter 3.

Now, let’s take a step back and look at how Undertale’s NEO was designed in the first place. In the past, Alphys was the only one who responded to Mettaton’s Human Fanclub Advertisement, and she was the one to show him the sketches of a body that would become Mettaton EX. Being the human-culture weeb that she is, both Mettaton EX and MNEO are heavily influenced by anime and video game designs, with the latter being a pseudo-final-boss to act as a last line of intimidation on the weird route…

But in Deltarune, despite there being a human in hometown and monsters living on the surface, the two of them are total strangers, meaning the Mettaton we know is unable to exist, as Alphys is a awkward high school teacher. We can at least introduce Tenna to the Blook household so they won’t be bored for long (hence a certain somebody’s quote along the lines of “something awakening within me”), but if the circumstances that led to Alphys designing Mettaton NEO in Undertale didn’t exist in this world… then how did Deltarune’s NEO come into existence? How did the anime and video game influenced, oddly humanoid, robotic body make its way to the librarby computer, when the one who drew it in Undertale isn’t connected to the friend she designed it for in this world? And why go to the trouble of designing something like that with such love and care, only to discard it as if it never mattered?

Something doesn’t add up here.

But even with this alternative scenario, there seems to be someone else who fits the bill.

A Lightner who has been introduced to the same video game and anime culture that influenced Alphys’ robotic designs, who also has a fascination with the human body, who also seems to be alluded to by several of the aforementioned characters, and who also had the opportunity to design NEO on the librarby laptop…

And it’s… Huh?

Hey, remember how I started this post?

I mentioned how I noticed the golden statue was described in an oddly similar way to the NEO machine.

And I thought: surely, that’s just coincidental? Surely, if I do a bit more research it should assure me I was seeing things where there was nothing?

Because why would the Smart Race battle directly parallel the Spamton NEO boss, complete with the same quote upon violent defeat?

Why would Berdly serve the same role as Mettaton NEO on the Snowgrave route, as a brave yet ultimately meaningless stand against a merciless player, again with the same flavour text quote?

Why would Berdly constantly allude to gamerisms in the same manner as the walking Matrix reference, including the same Minecraft With Gadget references?

Why would Berdly be rescued from wire control in the same way as the working-class-adjacent npcs as one of the few characters known to work a job, and who bonds with Kris over playing in much the same way as Ramb, yet is also ultimately seen as not belonging in the eyes of others?

Why would Berdly and Swatch have such similar avian design elements and subservience to Queen, along with visual resemblance to Undertale’s librarbian, especially considering Swatch and the Swatchlings also disappear following Snowgrave on the Weird route?

Why would Berdly’s dark world design and Alphys’s classroom motivational poster reference the same video game other than to remind you they’re both absolute nerds?

And why, of all characters, does Berdly have such strong connections to all the characters related to the NEO Vessel sidequest?

I don’t have a clear answer to why this is the case just yet.

But I do have my personal hypothesis why the abandoned machine was so heavily guarded, and why such a wondrous embodiment of a Lightner’s hopes and dreams was left to rot in the first place…

It’s the same reason why a neglected child suffering from a lack of identity or sense of self-worth would purposely reduce themselves to a label assigned by others, denying themselves of any genuine self-expression outside of what is expected of them…

…and it’s the same reason why Kris was only half surprised by what they saw beyond the door.

[maplemoon1225]

Deltarune chapter 1+2 boss tier list

Explanations

S tier

Spamton Neo is a very fun boss I like the character, I love the music, and the fight makes good use of the yellow soul. I slightly prefer the weird route version because of the added difficulty but neither version is that difficult.

Jevil was the first super boss I fought in the series. I played Deltarune chapter 1 before Undertale. The attacks are really fun to avoid and I kinda like the wtf vibe of Jevil. No one knew what this guys deal was when Deltarune first came out.

A tier

Giga Queen was weird to place. It's a fun punch out reference but it does kinda feel like half a boss fight (because it is). It's still fun and I think the better half of the Queen fight.

B tier

Queen's fight is pretty good. I like the force field gimmick and the attacks are unique. Queen is a very fun character so the dialogue is good too.

I think Berdly's fights are pretty underrated. They aren't the most complex but the attacks are stikl fun and the fight is still funny. I prefer the first one because of the bumper car gimmick and the moving background but the second one is still good too as it's the only boss you fight with Noelle.

Spamton's fight is pretty fun. The attacks are simple but Soamton as a character carries the fight.

King is a pretty good first boss. I like how much he moves the box thingy and the music is pretty good.

C tier

Tasque Manager has a great design and a few good attacks but not much else.

Susie and Lancer have a neat gimmick but basic attacks.

Rouxls Kaard has a good gimmick but is way too easy.

Sweet Cap'n Cakes are kinda underwhelming characters but the attacks are fine.

D tier

Were Werw Wire is fun enough but hardly feels like a boss.

K. Round is a fine enough first mini boss and the second fight has a cool act but there isn't much else to it.

E tier

All these guys are just kinda underwhelming and hardly feel like bosses.

[maplemoon1225]

I always misread this as " Smart Scooter"

Like, wtf is a smart scooter and where did Berdly even get it. We never even see him riding a scooter.

[maplemoon1225]

It feels like I find more connections between water and the dark worlds everyday. The chapter seven dark world is just gonna be a puddle or something

[maplemoon1225]

My Undertale boss tier list

Some definitely not brief explanations

S tier

Undyne the undying is definitely my favorite boss in Undertale. I love the green soul mode, it is probably my favorite of the soul modes. The red soul attacks are fun too. I love the story of Undyne giving her all to kill or even just delay the player. The music is incredible. I don't really have anything bad to say about this fight.

Sans is definitely the fight I think most people put at the top of their list and I can't blame them. The fight is fun and the unique way Sans gets around having 1 attack and defense is really interesting. In most boss battles the player has less health and has to dodge a lot while fighting a physically stronger opponent so it's nice to see that dynamic flipped. I like that he attacks you in the UI, switching from the red and blue soul modes is fun, and the music and story are good too. The main reason I like this less than Undyne is probably just because I prefer the green soul and that's about it.

A tier

Mettaton Ex is really fun. I like the main gimmicks of getting the ratings up and the yellow soul. The parts where you fight Mettaton's soul are really cool. Some of the attacks are pretty unique such as the disco ball one or the rewind one. The music is also really good too, though that applies to most of the songs in this game.

Asriel is a hard one for me to place. On one hand the fight is an amazing spectacle with fun attacks and amazing music but being unable to die definitely lowers the stakes. Because the attacks are still fun to avoid I am still putting this fight high up on the list.

This might be a bit high for Papyrus but I think his fight is really fun. The blue soul mode is such a fun twist and each attack feels fun and for the most part fair. The comedic side of the fight really makes it shine, the dialogue, the attacks, it all comes together to make a fun experience.

Omega Flowey is often overshadowed by Asriel but I think they stand out in their own way. Completely removing turns is a good way to make the player feel helpless. I like a lot of the attacks, especially the save file ones. The six souls are very well utilized in this fight when they aren't in Asriel's. The visuals are very unique and probably the biggest stand out part of the fight. It does feel a bit smaller than the other final bosses but that's probably because you fight Asgore right before this fight.

Speaking of Asgore, his fight is quite fun. I like that his attacks reference Toriel and I like his trident attack a lot. I always like bosses that don't have a special gimmick and are just a test of skill. This fight is built up to throughout the game and it feels very climactic. I like that Asgore doesn't really want to fight the player but feels he has no other choice, makes everything a bit more emotional.

B tier

Mad Mew Mew is a pretty fun boss. It's exclusive to the switch version so a lot of people don't know about it but it's pretty good. The soul mode is really fun and I like the extra attacks that get added if you don't get hit. I like the added characterization of Mad Dummy as well.

Muffet is a similar fight in a lot of ways, they even have similar music. It is fun in a lot of the same ways Mew Mew is fun but I find the attacks and character slightly less interesting.

Mad Dummy might be a bit high but I think the fight is quite solid. The main gimmick is fun and the attacks are fun to avoid. The music is amazing as well. I don't have much more to say about, it's just a really good mini boss.

For how much I love Undyne's genocide fight it's kinda surprising how much less I like the normal fight. The method of sparing her is unique but it comes at the cost of not seeing her red soul attacks. Her attacks also feel pretty easy. I understand that she is going to be easier than in her other fight but she doesn't feel challenging at all. The green soul mode is still fun and sparing her is unique at least.

I'd put most of the amalgates here. They all feel a bit more like special enemies rather than bosses but if they were bosses this is where they'd go. The creepy vibes are quite fun and the attacks are fun. There isn't much to say about these, the aesthetics are the main reason they are this high up.

C tier

Toriel is a good first boss and challenge. Her fight is quite simple which makes sense but it doesn't make her any more interesting. I like the conflict of her wanting the keep the player safe, it's a unique dynamic for a boss fight. There are a lot of positives but the attacks being simple and the fight being short just barely keeps it out of B tier.

I'd put the memory heads next, they feel a little bit worse than the other amalgamates, not a lot worse, just a little bit. They have a less interesting design and there attack isn't the most interesting.

Glyde's a fine enough secret boss but there isn't much to him. His attacks and personality are both just ok and that's about it.

D tier

I'm not going to bother making separate explanations for all of these. These bosses just feel kinda boring. They aren't bad just underwhelming. They don't have any interesting story, personality, or even music. They have some okay attacks at least.

E tier

Basically the same as D tier but worse. These bosses might have some cute moments but everything else is completely lacking.

F Tier

These are the fight that really aren't fights, it's hard to even consider them bosses. They do serve some purpose like a story purpose or a tutorial for blue attacks but they aren't fun fights.

I'll probably do a tier list of all the Deltarune bosses next. I'm not sure if I'll do one for each chapter or just one big one though. After that I'll probably do one with all the Undertale, Deltarune, and Undertale Yellow bosses.

[maplemoon1225]

My Undertale Yellow boss tier list!!!

(Considering how recently I first played the game, my opinion will likely change)

Some "brief" explanations

S tier

Ceroba's pacifist fight is probably my favorite. It definitely helps that the pacifist ending if my favorite but the fight itself is still good. I like the attack patterns, the soul abilities, and the use of blue and orange attacks feels natural. The story surrounding the fight is great too. My only complaint is I wish the phases changed a little bit more from each other.

Starlo is probably higher than I imagine most people would put him but I think his fight was great. I like how different the first and second halves of the fight feel from each other. I think the attack patterns are quite creative and fun. The music and visuals are great. Even the story is good. The only thing holding it back is that it isn't more, it does everything right but it has less potential than something like a final boss.

Ceroba's genocide battle is pretty good but it doesn't have the same emotions as her pacifist fight. I really like the gimmick of lowering the players max health and I feel it is a mostly fair challenge. There are one or two attacks that feel a bit unfair but aside from that I really like this fight.

Flowey's fight is surely something. It is very long and varied with an array of unique visuals and sequences. Why is it at the bottom of S tier? Because of the gameplay. The gameplay certainly isn't bad by any means, I just find it lacking in comparison to the bosses I put higher. It can kinda feel like a bunch of random attacks with no cohesion at times which does add to the chaotic atmosphere but aren't necessarily the most fun.

A tier

Axis had great gameplay and music but I don't find the story or character to be the most interesting in comparison to others.

The Feisty Four are great characters and all their attacks are unique, sadly they get cut off before they can truly shine.

Martlet's first genocide battle is honestly more fun than I thought it would be, the lack of a very interesting story does hold it back though.

B tier

Guardner is a decently fun mini boss. I like the variety of attacks and the cutscene if you spare them is good.

Zenith Martlet is an underwhelming boss for me. Some of the attacks are fun and creative but others just feel unfun to dodge. The visuals and music are good and the story is fine but the lackluster gameplay makes this my least favorite of the final bosses.

Macro Froggit has some fun attacks and good music but I definitely don't find it as funny as I'm supposed to.

Genocide Axis is good but the attacks are way less interesting than the normal version.

Martlet's fight is fine, the attacks are good and I do like how she is poorly following a guide the whole time.

Dalv is a good first boss, I don't really have much more to say. The music's good too.

C tier

El Bailador has a unique gimmick but something about the way it's executed isn't to my taste. I also don't care for the difficulty spike at the end of the fight, he does way to much damage especially on pacifist. He'll probably grow on me as I get better but most of the battle is too simple and the end is too difficult.

Decibat is a fine introduction to the blue and orange attacks. It's good to reintroduce these early because they are used more than in Undertale. I can only put them so high because they are very simple.

D tier

Micro Froggit, do I need to explain why.

[maplemoon1225]

Already finished the genocide/vengance route. I thought it would probably take me longer tbh, at least another day. The route overall felt fine, I didn't love it or anything but I still enjoyed it.

Ceroba's fight was probably my favorite of the ones on this route. I like the mechanic of lowering your max health and the attacks felt fun to avoid. It felt slightly unfair with the freezing ability that was hard to react to but aside from that I quite enjoyed this fight.

Axis' fight was fine. I definitely prefer the normal version but this one is fine. It's kinda neat how the tables turn and now Axis needs to defend himself with the trash lid but aside from that I don't have much to say about it.

And then there is Zenith Martlet. I do think ot took me more attempts than Sans but I also went in completely blind and most of those attempts were much shorter. So even though I died more it felt less difficult. As for how much I enjoyed the fight I'm not too sure. I liked some attacks but it felt like to could rely to much on the dash ability which I find less interesting than just normal dodging. I also found the glass blocks that you have to dash through to be kind of janky

Her character here isn't anything we haven't seen before either. We've seen monsters giving there all to save monsterkind. The only difference is Martlet believed in humans which is kinda interesting but it doesn't play into the fight too much.

Overall I did like the genocide route but I prefer the other two more.

[maplemoon1225]

Started the vengance/genocide route of Undertale Yellow. I got through all of the Ruins and Snowdin as well as most of the Dunes. Just like on Undertale most of the genocide route is just kinda a worse version of normal gameplay since all the comedy is taken away but the real reason is play the genocide route is the tragic moments and harder bosses.

Martlet's first fight was fun. It was basically just a more difficult version of the normal one so I enjoyed it. I almost beat it first try but I died because I accidentally held down x on one turn XD.

I saved before Ceroba so the next time I play I'll be fighting her.

[maplemoon1225]

Poor Edgeworth, can't catch a break.

This is the fourth time Phoenix has rejected him

[maplemoon1225]

My Undertale Yellow glup shittos in Tomodachi Life

[maplemoon1225]

Beat the neutral route of Undertale Yellow. Since I skipped and skimmed through a lot of the dialogue in the first half I was able to do it all in one day. I always feel a little bad killing monsters at first but I eventually get used to it.

It was nice to see how the Steamworks changed without Ceroba, it felt a little empty. I fought Macro Froggit, it was fun but I didn't find it as funny as I was probably supposed to.

The boss battle against Flowey was definitely a highlight. I didn't think he'd kill Martlet so that caught me off guard. I already had an idea of what the boss would be like because of the ost but it was still cool seeing the different phases. It was decently challenging though the gun attack would sometimes appear below the screen so I couldn't see it. Aside from that the battle was fine, the attacks did a good job feeling hectic and I liked the art.

I kinda wish I did this before pacifist because of the intentionally unsatisfying ending. This ending feels very suffocating and hopeless while the pacifist ending felt like Clover finally getting a slightly better ending once Flowey gets bored of them. I really do like how much of a tragic character Clover is, they at least get to help break the barrier with the other souls in Undertale as well as getting payback against Flowey. The pacifist ending is also the ending they chose for themselves so it feels like a conclusion to the game dragging Clover along without giving them a choice.

[maplemoon1225]

Finally beat the pacifist route of Undertale Yellow. It was a solid ending. Ceroba's fight was good for the most part. I did die because one attack was obscured by another so that's a little annoying but it only happened to me once. I like the bit of the music with the Hopes and Dreams motif. I also like the scream Ceroba does at that part, it kinda reminds me of a legendary Pokémon.

The story was fine, they did a good job making Ceroba morally grey. Her motivations are tragic but partially her own fault and she is definitely self-centered.

I like that the barrier and tensions between humans and monsters are such large problems that no matter what people will suffer. Even in the best ending of Undertale Asriel is still stuck as a flower and six humans have to die.

And that brings me to my favorite part of the ending, Clover's sacrifice. Clover feels a lot like their own character throughout the game so it's nice that they decide their own fate. I love a bittersweet ending, it makes everything feel more important and meaningful. It's not the same as a bad or tragic ending, those often feel unsatisfying. A bittersweet ending as the impact of a bad ending while being satisfying like a good ending.

[maplemoon1225]

Got this new cereal that I like, can't eat it though because it gives me stomach issues :(

[maplemoon1225]

Got through the Steamworks in uty. I liked the pink color scheme and the music was fine. I liked the more melancholic tone at some parts and Axis added a nice bit of levity. I wasn't sure if I'd like him at first but he really grew on me.

His boss fight was challenging to me at first and it took me a good number of tries but that was only because I wasn't using good enough armor. Once when I got better armor I beat him first try. I enjoyed the gimmick and it sometimes reminded me of the green soul which is my favorite. The usage of orange attacks was very good, those tend to be underutilized.

Ceroba was nice to have around. I was already spoiled to some of her importance but it's nice to actually see how it all fits together. It was also nice to see Starlo again and I wonder what will end up happening between him and Ceroba.

[maplemoon1225]

Just got through the Dunes in Undertale Yellow. I definitely think it was an improvement to the Ruins and Snowdin. I liked the Wild West theming and I liked the characters more. It would've been nice to get a bit more of the Feisty Four, maybe one or two more appearances a bit sooner would've been nice but I still enjoyed them. I liked the music of this area more than the previous as well, especially Deal 'em out. I'm also not sure why Oasis Valley needed to exist when the Wild East was so close by, they probably could've been combined or moved further apart.

The rhythm game boss fight was way too difficult for me. I'm not great at rhythm games and this one had kinda weird controls. I had to use the auto rhythm in order to beat them.

The Feisty Four fight was fun though I think it could've been a tad longer. It felt like it ended when it was starting to get good.

Starlo's fight was a fun challenge. I liked the gimmick in the first half and the second half was challenging but didn't feel unfair.

The Dunes really set my expectations high so hopefully the Steamworks can live up to them.

[maplemoon1225]

I'm playing Undertale Yellow for the first time, I'm going in partially blind, I already got to the dunes.

The Ruins were enjoyable enough, it was nice to see them look more like actually ruins and Dalv's fight was fun enough even if his character was just kinda like Napstablook (although it did seem like they were hinting at something more.)

Snowdin was good, it wasn't nearly as good as in Undertale but it's hard to beat sans and Papyrus. It was still nice to see a more foresty and isolated feeling part of Snowdin and Martlet's fight was fun.

I'd say I am enjoying the game so far but I hope it gets even better with the new areas.

[maplemoon1225]

Miles Edgeworth after Phoenix rejects him three times