I'll use this as an opportunity to say that my primary concern regarding shipping discourse lies in what drives the obsession around those themes being shown in an erotic and positive light, what spaces are created around an obsessive or exclusive consumption of these works, and what fuels the feeling of entitlement to put it in public spaces with little to no caution of who will end up seeing it.
I'm worried about how this kind of fiction mirrors a society where these things more often than not go unpunished, to simply put, and how obsessive engagement and promotion of it helps uphold this lack of accountability, and how it creates an illusion that all is good and deserves no criticism so long as it's fictional, because "fiction affects reality" becomes "an anti thing to say" or "an anti strawman" in these spaces.
You present many false symmetries. Being critical of comship and proship culture meaning we should also call for a ban on superhero movies and creepypasta content since we're "against media that can be harmful" is a false symmetry.
While it is true that there is harm being done by ideas in a lot of those things and their fans, especially how the US government uses superhero movies as a propaganda machine, they also can have a multitude of possible interpretations and themes. Slenderman isn't the entirety of creepypasta, also, and even Slenderman himself doesn't have a canon-confirmed lore. Pedophilia and abuse-focused fictional pornography where the appeal lies in lack of consent and taboo for the sake of taboo don't have other possible interpretations or relevant themes.
You say Werther effect isn't relevant to a discussion that is, also, about how irresponsible portraying of sensitive themes in great detail can affect reality. Which I heavily disagree with.
You bring up BDSM, which I did not mention in this post at all, and I explitictly state I have no problem with on my pinned post. We're talking about >fiction where the appeal lies in the absolute lack of consent and the communities formed around it<. We're not talking about irl consented kink activities or fictional portrayals of BDSM that are explicitly so, and irl BDSM porn more often than not starts with a "hey, I'll be participating in this movie where we'll do x, y, and z, and I'm enthusiastically consenting to it." Again, false symmetry.
"There are more predators lurking around anti spaces" is not proved nor objectively measured by any metric, and is likely a form of survivorship bias (or just good old finger pointing), since "more predators are being found and ostracized and taken accountable in anti spaces" does not automatically equal to a higher number of predators, but to a higher number of predators >being exposed<, which is to be expected given the ideals people against proshipping share, and what predators might find to be a "good cover" that takes them closer to teens, given what themes this discourse deals with and the amount of teens that engage with it.
Existing scientific studies about lolicon have been inconclusive, which favors neither side. Most studies on pedophiles and how their activities relate to lolicon come from the criminalistic pov and likely have a kind of survivorship bias, since pedophiles who willingly participate in studies have already been caught or decided to get treatment before offending, and likely differ in behavior from pedophiles who have not been caught and/or are not willing to go into treatment.
"A pedophile can groom using anything" true, even candy can be used, but the number of victims specifically pointing to loli/shota being used, and the ease with which a material can be used for grooming, is where the difference is at.
If anyone wishes to understand what probably led to the popularization of lolicon in the first place, which is what I'm more interested in than what it does, I'd recommend Kimio Itō, Sharon Kinsella, Chizuko Naitō, and Christine Yano's theories and research.
This has been more of a reply to expose my ideas and where they come from, and since I do not believe you argue in good faith, I will no longer be engaging with your replies or any form of contact.
