none but the lonely heart - maggie/sandra - the great lie (1941)
the cats that walk alone - crystal/sylvia - the women (1939)
hard to be soft - amy/donna - the west wing
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audrey horne
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rosalind russell
ingrid bergman
a totally real lost film starring norma shearer
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norma desmond - fade away and radiate
nobody’s as good as bette when she’s bad!
three hearts that beat as one (old hollywood throuples/polycules)
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if you like my stuff, that's awesome! please feel free to talk to me about it. i am very inconsistent about posting the stuff i create or the rate at which i can and want to make things but i always have Thoughts.
The Top-Ten Most Popular Barbara Stanwyck Films on Letterboxd
1. Double Indemnity (1944) dir. Billy Wilder
2. The Lady Eve (1941) dir. Preston Sturges
3. Ball of Fire (1941) dir. Howard Hawks
4. Baby Face (1933) dir. Alfred E. Green
5. Christmas in Connecticut (1945) dir. Peter Godfrey
6. Stella Dallas (1937) dir. King Vidor
7. Remember the Night (1940) dir. Mitchell Leisen
8. Forty Guns (1957) dir. Samuel Fuller
9. Meet John Doe (1941) dir. Frank Capra
10. Sorry, Wrong Number (1948) dir. Anatole Litvak
okay thanks to three of you i am making a joan fontaine ida lupino post... (anyways like half of this is really about The Bigamist (1953) because. well.)
okay Ida Lupino was married to Collier Young from 1948 until sometime in 1951. Collier Young and Joan Fontaine married in 1952 (and later got divorced of course). already this is fun right? anyways, Collier Young wrote a movie called The Bigamist about a man who is married and starts a double life basically and marries a second woman also. he also produced it. Ida Lupino directed and starred in it as one wife with Joan Fontaine playing the other. that's just fun! kind of a tangent but i can't not talk about it. anyways, i don't really have much in terms of how or when Ida and Joan became friends, but they were, if this article is at all reliable...
(i cannot for the life of me find the publication this was in, i found this on twitter as is. sorry also for terrible quality, there will be a transcription under the cut at the end of this post)
they collaborated a few times on tv as well. Ida Lupino had a sitcom starring her and her then husband Howard Duff called Mr. Adams and Eve about a married couple, who were actors (fun fact, Collier Young was also a creator for this). one episode is titled "Joan Fontaine" and features Joan Fontaine and is apparently sort of about how good of an actress Joan Fontaine is. if anyone has any idea how I might find this episode, please tell me. I would like to see it!!!! also, Ida directed an episode of the anthology series General Electric Theater that starred Joan Fontaine in 1961.
so. I just think they are neat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! also. not exactly on topic but everyone watch The Bigamist and then read @romanimp's fic about it.
text of article screenshotted above:
Mad Pixie by Ida Lupino as told to William French
I started off not liking Joan Fontaine a bit. I don't know why I disliked her. Perhaps it was because I suspected her demure manner covered a penetrating directness. It shocks me when I meet somebody as direct as I am.
Or maybe it was because of Louis' [Hayward; Ida's first husband who was in The Duke of West Point with Joan] habit of coming come and telling me of Joan Fontaine's marvelous control of herself. How, when people said nasty things to her or about her, she would refuse to strike back-- and just withdraw into herself.
Husbandly diplomacy, I thought-- considering I blow up all over the place when anybody steps on my toes.
Anyhow, I told my mother I couldn't stand Fontaine. My mother said: "Look out, Ida, whenever you start out disliking somebody you generally end up liking them very much." I said: "Well, I don't know about this one. I can't make her out."
Now that I know she is strictly mad, I like Joan very much. I think Geraldine Fitzgerald is the only woman I ever liked as much. For a while I felt that the directness I discovered in Fontaine was just a pose, and it annoyed me. But I eventually discovered that she is completely sincere. Now I know that she is entirely frank; never soft-soaps you and if she says she likes a thing she really likes it.
She has the amazing quality of being absolutely feminine and yet thinking like a man. She thinks in straight lines, never circumventing, playing politics, or beating around the bush.
You only have to walk into Joan's home to know what kind of person she is. It is simple and in extremely good taste. Completely informal, you know the instant you step in the door that if you want to lie down on the floor on your stomach and sleep that it'll be all right with her.
Once I knew Joan, I had to agree with Louis regarding her ability to take it. I marvelled at how she could assimilate unpleasantness without fighting back or letting her embitter her.
Things were not easy for Joan at first-- and she had to struggle very hard. People weren't very kind to her when she started in pictures. They would hurt her, and then, because she drew back within herself, call her snobbish. But when she did attain terrific success she never held anything against anyone. Nor has she ever assumed a holier-than-thou or superior attitude.
She never lets anything go to her head. If she has a problem she is frank about it. She will admit it is bothering her and try to find a solution to it. She is always open to suggestions. She is a young girl with a mature point of view.
She is honest enough to say: "I love being a star-- and enjoy the things that go with it." But never for a moment has she let success or glamour destroy her sense of values. She greets each success with her tongue in her cheek and her fingers crossed.
When you know Joan you feel that if she were dropped on a remote island that she would adjust herself and not pine for the things she has had. That's because she has such a wide variety of interests and an insatiable curiosity regarding the commonplace things about her. That curiosity makes almost anything in her life an oyster.
She's such a lively little pixie. And yet people who don't know her seem to think Joan Fontaine is a dignified, haughty and very arty person.
How surprised they're going to be when I give them the lowdown on this gal.
While she was making This Above All and I was doing Moontide at Twentieth Century-Fox we dropped into each other's dressing rooms daily. The last time I was in her dressing room for luncheon we rhumbaed all through the mealtime. My director, Archie Mayo, burst in and yelled: "Listen you jitterbugs, lie down! Get some rest before I paddle you."
If you could see barrel-shaped Archie waddling along in his white sportshirt you would appreciate that. Imagine him catching Joan, even if he has a lap to spank her on.
Joan keeps everything moving, including her moods.
I popped into her dressing room the other morning. I knew something was bothering her the instant she gave me that repressed "How are you?" greeting. So I went into my dressing room and waited for the next scene.
In a few minutes she came in and got on my lap. She said, "Everything is terrible, Lupy." I said: "I know it, honey-- now spill it." Five minutes later she was whisking around, bright and peppy as ever.
[page ends here, so I am unsure if there is anything skipped over here before the next page begins]
But you should really see us together, hunched over one of our bars-- waving our arms and talking as fast as we can. We write movies, settle world affairs, marry off our friends and prescribe each other's ailments right there. We pass pills back and forth and have a great time diagnosing and predicting disaster.
Our husbands stand by, watching us. They used to shake their heads sadly, but they don't any more. They just say to anyone who chances in and gapes at us: "Never mind those two hypochondriacs, they're screwy."
Brian Aherne [Joan's first husband] thinks there's nobody in the world like Joan. He glows with pride as he watches her prance about, bubbling with life. Then he looks at me, grins and says, "Isn't she wonderful?"
Joan says I'm the only woman she will trust with Brian. She says: "You can take it or leave it," indicating I can accept it as a compliment or not, just as I wish. She is the only woman I trust with Louis, and I mean it as a compliment.
Pixie and I like exactly the same things. That goes for clothes as well as everything else. We have a great time modeling her clothes. We go into her closet and try on everything she has. We're exactly the same size and I model for her. We have a terrific time, all by ourselves. You can hear us for blocks.
The screwiest thing of all is how we seem to keep in step in everything. Whatever one does, or whatever happens to one, the same thing happens to the other. And do we sympathize with each other! I walked into Joan's dressing room a few days before she finished This Above All and asked her how she was.
"Terrible," she wailed. "I don't know how I can go on. I'm killing myself. I'm that exhausted. Here's my problem. When I finish this picture I get only ten days off to take care of all my personal affairs, fix myself up and try to get some rest."
I said: "You're talking for me. I get only ten days when this is over. I get only ten days off when this is over. After that I go over to Warners for another picture."
"Me, too. I'm starting to work there right after this." Maybe we're just intended to haunt each other.
Not that I mind-- because I've learned a terrific lesson from Fontaine. I took Louis' advice and watched her.
I discovered that while she's usually hopping around like water on a hot skillet, if anything really bothers her she becomes surprisingly calm and poised.
By studying Joan I discovered that it is not as nerve-racking to be nice when people are nasty as it is to lash back at them. In fact, I learned that it is much less exhausting and nerve shattering. To the degree I've been able to follow Joan's example I have benefited. But my safety valve still pops open if I don't watch myself.
Joan and I want to do a picture together in which we both have good parts. We don't care how we're billed. She says she'll take second billing to me and I say hers is the only woman's name they can put over mine. Our husbands suggest the billing be Ida Fontaine and Joan Lupino, because we're just naturally that mixed up, anyhow.
who knows if this is true and also i love baby jane as is and everything but literally the thought of ida lupino's what ever happened to baby jane does make me feel so crazy. like oh my god. also the idea of ANY bette (or joan) project directed by ida makes me feel like. lightheaded. jesus christ. can you guys imagine. my god!!!!
it’s just like. i kind of can’t stop thinking about this. like worth noting i suppose that it would be different in some interesting ways!! like for one thing i think it would slant a little more noir and perhaps a little less horror but mostly its like. well ida’s directorial style and intent are like notably a bit more grounded and like interested in realism than her contemporaries and I wouldn’t really say the same of aldrich or specifically baby jane which i just think would make for a very diff movie. like obviously given the subject matter and bette and joan (or bette and olivia) there would still absolutely be some theatricality and like there should be and ida can do that as well lol i truly am just like. god!!! imagine if baby jane was directed by someone who experienced and hated and commented on the way hollywood commodified and tossed aside actresses on top of the meta narrative and perspectives offered by bette and joan already… like I just think her general perspective on like glamor and celebrity and gender I suppose would have just added such an interesting texture!! i would like to see it!!!!
and well of course baby jane but with the specific connections between bette and ida in the mix……. like on top of everything I’ve talked about in my all about eve meta narrative post I just think their styles would be soooo interesting together!! GOD!! there’s soooo many people I wish I got to see ida direct… who like she never would have given the independent production company of it all and such… but like! god!!! at least we have ida directing joan fontaine thank FUCKING god.
patty o’connor kevin can fuck himself still character of all time to me. extremely grounded and realistic repression and resignation and sort of unwilling care and devotion… and like complete sidelining of her own needs and desires (to the extent that she’s even willing to recognize that she has them) for other people while also being deeply standoffish and not someone people would think of immediately as like caring. trying so hard to help people and also not look like she’s trying. she is everything to meeeee. miss her. miss patty/allison. need them back (time for rewatch soon!)
have you seen this? https://x.com/i/status/2050994657862263110
(full interview here)
nooooo I hadn’t seen it oh my godddddd… there are so few surviving recordings of Mary Astor interviews… the content of this of course is very very similar to what she said in her books but hearing and seeing her say it… anyways full interview is interesting in that it’s also largely about her getting into writing and how she got into writing (which was apparently through therapy because she was bad at talking about things so her therapist had her write them… slay) and I mean I always mentally connect that sort of to the great lie since she’s talking about how they basically rewrote it together… anon thank youuuuu
okay also it must be said I have only seen Gail Patrick in a few things but I do love that she was always typecast as the like sort of bitchy, vain, perhaps cynical romantic rival to the leading lady/romantic heroine. one of the all time ham bait character archetypes it must be said. also her voice is hot <3
like yeah crystal and sylvia are fucking it just wasn’t important to mary’s journey or whatever. do you know how little the women would need to change if you made it about a hot broke social climber girl infiltrating a complicated and insular web of rich dykes? im sorry this is just the truth
okay no let me elaborate on this. listen here’s my full dyke drama vision okay. okay. (this is vague and nonsensical bc really a lot of these things wouldn’t actually coexist exactly but. I’m just having fun here)
Sylvia is The high society lesbian. it’s basically an open secret in certain circles but also she will get so offended if you imply that this is well known or honestly like say anything too directly. but she knows (and gossips about!) who all the gay women are. (the funny thing about this is that most if not all of them actually hate Sylvia and are like it’s soooo not worth it to be with her in any way. but you see they know this from experience. her insane bitchiness and lack of self awareness are irresistible.)
no one can actually figure out if Mary is interested in women honestly because she seems very genuinely in love with her husband, but she’s so nice and pretty and she wears pants and she’s funny and she’s friends with a bunch of dykes so like. every high society gay girl (except Sylvia lol) has at some point been madly in love with her. to no avail. (of COURSE she’s into women she’s just more repressed about it than most of them)
(In one version of this, Mary’s mom is gay and assumes Mary is gay and is like girl you have to keep your husband so you have that security/protection and people don’t think your gay. In another version, Mary’s mom is like why are you surrounded by all these dykes. In the third, correct version, she is gay, thinks Mary is gay, AND is like why are you surrounded by the most insufferable dykes I’ve ever seen. for the love of god Mary tell me you aren’t sleeping with any of them tell me you have taste. on the other hand if you are sleeping with them I guess I understand why you keep them around and if you aren’t I truly have no idea.)
Sylvia and Edith have like a kind of on and off affair but it’s really much more like a casual occasional hook up friends with benefits thing because they realize that they actually much prefer to talk shit about other people than like. fuck each other or be together in any other way usually. like Edith is probably out here like yeah Sylvia can’t really fuck for shit unless you’re really into getting negged or whatever but she does have so much gossip. but they both don’t actually share all the dyke drama with each other and each kind of think they are getting more info than they are giving. this is not true for either of them (they both talk a lot and not all of it is true lol)
Nancy and Sylvia are exes who honestly never liked each other to begin with and both about each other are like well she’s the worst most annoying type of gay bitch in the world so.
Peggy and Sylvia have a weird toxic thing going on where Peggy has some kind of legitimate feelings for Sylvia and Sylvia like is legitimately attracted to her but mostly likes the attention and power and is like. microdosing slumming by being with a woman who has a job lmfao. she also buys a ton of shit for Peggy which Peggy feels really weird about. Peggy also though like knows that Sylvia generally treats her kind of like shit but she can’t really shake the admiration for how like independent and such she is. Peggy is also honestly kind of in love with Mary but is like well Mary is completely unattainable of course so I may as well stay in this weird thing with Sylvia that is clearly fulfilling something for me.
enter Crystal! she still does have an affair with Stephen like the plot here is unchanged. my thoughts on her background is like she has had flings with women and such and she does enjoy that she’s just kind of like well that’s not gonna get me anywhere and puts me at a lot of risk so I do need to find a rich man and then maybe we can revisit that with a lot of caution. but she’s certainly not at all romantic lol. she and Sylvia’s initial confrontation is basically the same but like they are both into it. (also, Sylvia and Edith walking around the store and being like hm let’s find the hot girl… is just. lol)
that random model princess girl is another disastrous sort of ex of Sylvia’s I don’t make the rules. the dressing room scene between Crystal and Mary is also basically the same. like Crystal flirts a little more blatantly I guess but I feel like half her lines are a little flirty anyways. I go back and forth on whether or not they like kiss or fuck or anything here bc on the one hand yeah duh and then Mary flees and on the other hand noooo bc you need to keep the tension of them Not having done anything but it being on Mary’s mind a lot. so basically I think they either like angry kiss or angry almost kiss and then Mary immediately flees and tries to give a parting shot with the “Stephen doesn’t go for such obvious effects” but Crystal is just like “I guess that’s one place where you and your husband differ.” and Mary is like “I don’t know what you mean” and then Crystal like rolls her eyes and gives her actual line there (“thanks for the tip but whenever anything I wear doesn’t please Stephen I take it off”)
side note: this makes the “so that’s what she calls meeting mrs Haines socially” line much funnier
Peggy breaks things off with Sylvia largely over everything with Mary. Sylvia doesn’t super care on a deep level but is deeply offended that Peggy thinks she’s somehow better than her or something lol. shes also like well good luck with Mary lol. hoping she’ll turn to you for comfort while she’s lonely and heartbroken? Peggy obviously takes offense to this and is hurt by this which adds to her being upset about her divorce when it comes. Peggy also has no idea if Mary knows anything about her and Sylvia but she certainly isn’t going to tell her so the train ride is very awkward and kind of horrible for Peggy. Mary is quietly sort of like I didn’t realize you even cared this much about Johnny tbh and Peggy of course didn’t but what is she supposed to say? Actually I’m sad bc I broke up with your bitchy cousin bc she’s mean to you and i know she sucks so bad but I do have actual feelings for her and it’s just hard bc I know I’d never have what I wanted from her but I’ll also never have what I want from you but that’s completely unfair for me to put on you??
The Countess has either had as many affairs with women as she has marriages and most of them have been equally disastrous, or she’s our token straight and they’re all like so I guess she won’t go wherever l’amour takes her. Either way, she’s entirely clueless to the affairs of people around her though so she fully does not know that any of our ladies are gay. I lean towards she’s straight tho, idk why I guess it’s like the lack of repression.
Miriam, though, has been with women some, some out of genuine feeling and she’s been in love with, others for fun. She quickly joins our little brigade of “does Mary is lesbian.” who can blame her? she of course is still having an affair with Sylvia’s husband. like Crystal, she’s like well. I want money so the whole gay thing isn’t gonna stop me from going after a rich man.
women coming through the Reno divorce ranch keep falling madly in love with Lucy. Lucy finds most of them far too annoying and high maintenance to return the feelings. this isn’t relevant to the plot, I just think it’s true.
Miriam and Peggy both notice that the other one is into Mary and rather than like being jealous, they develop a sort of camaraderie and blossoming friendship… and maybe… well, stay tuned! it’s actually very sweet and Peggy is like wild. mean lesbians can be nice sometimes?? they commiserate over past relationships that they usually can’t really talk about with anyone. it’s very sweet.
Sylvia shows up (she has to divorce Howard bc otherwise he’ll divorce her and probably out her in the process bc she’s been having affairs w women) Chaos ensues. Peggy is like hm I probably shouldn’t find Sylvia and Miriam physically fighting this hot, but… oh well. while Peggy is helping Miriam with her wound she probably makes some offhanded joke about Sylvia having left plenty of marks on her but never drawing blood and Miriam is like Peggy. that’s your horrible ex??? and Peggy is like did I ever say she was horrible?? and Miriam is like no but I did! Jesus I know you ran away to Reno but I would’ve run farther. and Peggy’s like she’s not that bad… when you get to know her. and Miriam is like no I’m sure she’s much worse. and Peggy is kind of like. well. but she’s. hot. and Miriam is like oh yeah I know that’s the trouble with girls like her. if she weren’t hot and kind of charming in a terrible sort of way you wouldn’t have gotten into this mess.
idk we can cut Peggy pregnancy. or we can leave it and have her go on an abortion adventure with Miriam or something.
(maybe Buck Winston is a hot butch. just spitballing here. maybe the Countess has a desert hearts moment. idk. probably not but. this isn’t at all real so it doesn’t matter. for the purposes of this post though we’re cutting crystal/buck)
Miriam gives Mary her best pep talk about her marriage and divorce but she keeps misapplying/projecting all the gay drama onto it. its not the same horrible speech she gives her in the movie but it’s not any more coherent either. especially bc she keeps trying to subtly throw in things to see if Mary is into women. she’s like well this Crystal girl… she’s like… irresistibly hot right? and Mary, not really piecing things together and trying to cover for the fact that she kissed Crystal and Does find her very hot is like oh I don’t know I suppose a lot of people think so… or maybe Miriam has suspicions and is like trying to be sympathetic (while also kind of prying) and being like well you can’t really blame someone for falling to her charms can you and Mary is just not picking up what she’s putting down. Miriam is also kind of like damn wild that anyone would cheat on Mary what the fuck.
at some point during this, through some combo of being gay, wanting to deflect, wanting to move on from Stephen, etc, Mary kisses Miriam and Miriam obviously kisses her back and it’s nice but then idk someone maybe Sylvia maybe the Countess like very obtusely interrupts and well, Mary’s leaving Reno so!
Mary leaves. Miriam and Sylvia probably hate fuck after/during another heated argument.
during the time jump Sylvia and Crystal have started regularly fucking and also just shit talking other people and they are both super bitchy to each other but it honestly works out great bc they’re into it and neither of them wants any sentiment involved. anyways read the cats that walk alone. anything I elaborate is just that but with slightly different plot points. the vibes are there. they are both really adamant about keeping it under wraps so that Stephen doesn’t divorce her bc Crystal needs the money and Sylvia doesn’t want to give Mary the satisfaction.
I also think that somewhere in the time jump, Peggy, Miriam, and Mary have figured out a vague throuple sort of thing. maybe. I mean in a more accurate to the film and more true to themes etc way this isn’t true and they’re all still kind of repressed about this but. this is the tumblr post dyke version so!
and so… well, I guess Mary and Stephen getting back together doesn’t really make any sense. ohhh nooooo. they’re all stuck in this weird insular circle of rich lesbians all with so much blackmail material on each other (and therefore mutually assured destruction) and constant gossip and fighting. Mary and Crystal finally get to fuck at some point idk don’t worry about it. just know that it happens.
as both a guy who reads gay subtext into everything and a guy who has seen a lot of hitchcock movies (20 if you’re curious) I do occasionally find myself thinking shit like wow it’s crazy that hitchcock loved gay people. and then I have to go no. lol. he was fascinated by and enjoyed exploring hidden and forbidden and generally aberrant desires often including specifically sexuality and sometimes to a lesser degree gendered presentation though often really more in terms of either presentation as a whole and/or specifically in the context that there is something deeply wrong with this person and really it’s all more about his apparent fascination with like freudian themes than anything else and most certainly was never meant and cannot really be interpreted as positive (or even neutral most of the time) depictions of homosexuality or queerness more broadly. but it does mean that his movies often provide fertile ground for people who are queer and really into film (over)analysis. like me! which is neat. and then I think. you know technically I’ve never looked into how hitchcock felt about gay people. lmao.
wait… the way none of yall (that I follow on letterboxd) have logged or even watchlisted boys on the side 1995… what are we doingggg… im letting my people down by not boys on the side blogging. whoopi goldberg plays a 90s lesbian what more do you want. there’s so much indigo girls going on. mary-louise parker plays. uptight and repressed and unwell. it’s like a crazy amalgamation of thelma and louise and fried green tomatoes. and whoopi goldberg is there and she’s gay did I mention that. it’s not perfect but it is sooo moving to ME. guyssss.
was abt to tag that norma and paulette photo more in depth specifically to say that well if norma was going to lez out it would have been with merle and look that’s absolutely true but then I thought well I don’t know op and there’s not a lot of notes so idk how insane I wanna be on their post. have no qualms about being insane in my own post to my own followers anyways in case you didn’t hear me I said if norma shearer was going to lez out it would have been with merle oberon okay thank you
