Taps sign. Just because you personally are not comfortable with PIV as a trans man does not mean that it should be eradicated from fiction/pornography/whatever. I agree that you deserve representation, too, but it’s not helpful to just assume any depiction of PIV with a trans man is completely fetishistic and invalidating. My partner is a trans man and he’s only comfortable with the front hole. It doesn’t mean that when he draws trans men having PIV or something like that it’s strictly boring heteronormative sex and thus shouldn’t exist. It’s stupid to consider something several gay trans men really enjoy to be perpetuating heterosexuality somehow, even if it’s between two fucking MEN. That’s how he gets off and it does not equate to the absolute heinous shit you talk about t4c PIV. He’s just as valid as you are. You don’t have to like and consume that content, but acting like its existence is inherently problematic invalidates an entire chunk of trans men. It’s not like trans men who enjoy that type of stimulation are a completely made up fictional concept for fetish content. They exist. My boyfriend exists and you people make him feel like he’s not man enough for what makes HIS body feel good.
Put that anger into writing/drawing/etc your own works depicting trans men in the sexual situations you prefer instead of watering down the very idea of a trans man having sex that way to always be some gross cis fetish bullshit.
“trans men don’t experience misogyny because they’re men thus cannot experience women’s oppression”
I hate to tell you this but even cis men experience misogyny if they step a toe over the line of what our incredibly sexist society sees as “proper” for a man. You really don’t think that a man with interests or expression the world sees as “female” aren’t treated with violence?
“would you say that of other privileged groups? do you think white people experience racism?”
I mean sometimes they do yeah. I know a white guy with monolid eyes and zero known Asian ancestors and he absolutely experiences anti-Asian racism on a fairly regular basis because people think he’s mixed Asian/white. I know a woman who was told throughout her life that she was Native as an adoptee with no known history or background who experienced incredibly violent amounts of anti-Native racism until she discovered as an adult through DNA test that she is 100% white. I know white people who tan incredibly dark in the summer comparatively that are constantly accused of being mixed race and experiencing racism due to that, usually anti-Mexican racism perpetrated against white people with Greek or Italian ancestors.
Their ability to make it stop by saying “hey, I’m white actually” only goes as far as the person enacting violence on them is willing to believe them. They still have to live with the trauma and physical scars from the altercations. We live in a racist world and thus there will be violent people who force all others to pass a whiteness test and eliminating or harming the rest.
Got an ask that I just block/deleted but it was basically “so you think cis people experience transphobia!?!?!?!?” and uh
If you think cis butches don’t experience both transphobia and misogyny and homophobia for daring to be women who break gender roles while still holding onto their womanhood you’ve sorely misunderstood just how bad butches have it in this world sorry. If you don’t think cis queens experience transphobia and homophobia and misogyny for daring to be men who break gender roles while being loud and proud about it and still holding onto their manhood then you’ve sorely mistaken just how bad they have it in this world as well.
Not to mention all of the cis men who wear dresses and skirts and makeup and nail polish and heels simply because they like them who experience all of these things. All of the cis straight women who simply just exist but something about them doesn’t pass society’s “woman enough” test, leading to them being caught in bathroom bills and sporting rules and being attacked by people who mistake them for being transgender or gay.
Just like how straight people experience homophobia to such a degree that they literally beat their children out of any potential deviance from rigidly upheld gender roles and let politicians make jokes on national TV about how they’d drown their pre-teen kids if they came out as LGBT. Do you really think a straight kid still figuring themselves out hears that and doesn’t internalize that homophobia? Doesn’t rigidly hold themselves to some impossible standard so that no one could ever possibly think they’re gay? You don’t think straight teenage boys who maybe don’t pass some bully’s straightness test are getting the shit kicked out of them for “being gay” when, surprise, they aren’t? You don’t think all those kids being attacked by their priests and coaches and teachers are being told “this wouldn’t have happened if you weren’t gay” when they’re literally not gay? Do you know how many straight kids had close calls at my school that famously expels all gay kids, because someone made up a believable enough rumor? Do you know how many of them still got their shit kicked in even though administration ultimately decided to let them stay?
All bigotry is violent and all bigotry catches people it doesn’t “intend” to and hurts them as well. It doesn’t matter what someone’s label is, or if they even have one. It matters if the person enacting the violence is doing it because their victim didn’t pass whatever “acceptable enough” test they didn’t know they were being subjected to.
Everyone is at risk. Oppression doesn’t care what your label is. Some people are more visible targets than others, and as a result those people are the more common targets. That doesn’t mean no one else experiences it.
Working Guys is a collection of stories by transmasculine sex workers that take readers through different moments in their lives. The sto
Working Guys is a collection of stories by transmasculine sex workers that take readers through different moments in their lives.
The stories intersect between a few central themes, such as perceptions, media representation, and violence inflicted on trans sex workers. These nudge us to look at support systems and systematic changes required to address vulnerability, outlining the grey area between empowerment and vulnerabilities transmasculine sex workers face.
How far can one conform to expected ideas of gender before it becomes harmful?
“He told me that he struggled to see me as a man because I sell sex … and I found it hard to see the version of myself that I hid behind for work as anything other than a woman too. What he said to me had spread the sickness and I felt unsure in my identity.
I pretended to be a woman for work, so people saw me as one outside of it too.” -- "Only women sell sex" by Liam
In the anthology, several contributors recount the bittersweet irony of adopting female persons to cater to the demands of the market. This performance, often described as “cis for pay”, often binds trans sex workers to conform to different gendered expectations. When transmascs fail to meet the binary societal expectations of how a ‘man’ should look or behave, they are faced with violence of all types and degrees.
Sex workers capitalising aspects of oneself that can be eroticised is a form of powerful personal reclamation. On the flip side however, it leans into or even perpetuates harmful stereotypes that eroticise certain traits, further resulting in discrimination and violence.
Why are sex workers’ choices about their own bodies often subjected to the opinions of others?
“If you’re selling your body, isn’t it prudent to keep everything intact? Surely you’d lose customers if you had this surgery.” -- "An Appointment at Charing Cross" by Mx Dagger
In stories shared, several contributors to the anthology mention experiences where they were “hammered on details, including the type of sex work that were done” during requests for medical references for gender affirming surgery. These experiences highlight a higher barrier for trans people when it comes to obtaining medical support for their gender affirming procedures, which can have harmful consequences since many may choose to omit information when dealing with medical professions to avoid stigmatisation. This is in addition to the astronomical cost of medical transition that pushes many trans people into higher-risk work environments. These narratives challenge us to acknowledge that the fight for accessible transition care is inseparable from the broader struggle against economic and social marginalisation.
The invisibility of transmasculine sex workers.
Unlike their transfeminine counterparts—who, despite facing greater physical risks, benefit from more robust community networks—transmascs often find themselves isolated, struggling to advertise and represent themselves in spaces where few have a mental concept of what it means to be transmasculine.
Highlighting the lived experiences of transmasculine sex workers is crucial when addressing the concerns of the sex worker community as a whole. However, over reliance on an individual’s experience in the sex industry might undermine other experiences faced by different sex workers. Hence it is important to continually highlight the diversity of the community.
Joey, our ex-intern, penned down some of her thoughts while she was reading the book as a sex worker herself:
“The truth is I often feel deeply ambivalent about my work – I’m torn between the desire to defend it (because I enjoy it) and the desire to critique it (because it’s work, and I would prefer not to need to work, or at least to be able to do so in better conditions).
I never lie about my work, but I find it difficult to convey my thoughts effectively, while avoiding narratives that speak in absolutes: sex work being wholly degrading and exploitative, or sex work being entirely unproblematic and enjoyable. For me it’s somewhere in the middle—often a little of both.”
Conclusion
Working Guys challenge traditional views and push for different forms of empowerment, shaping a more holistic view of what transgender people experience. While doing so, Jack Parker uses the book as a platform to voice transmasculine perspectives and resilience in the face of adversity and challenges.
A recurring theme, empowerment within the transmasculine community was highlighted in various ways – as allies and sex workers. This is rooted in the belief that individuals should make decisions based on what aligns with their beliefs, rather than conforming to external factors. By reading this, hopefully it gives us the strength – like what Parker is doing – to advocate for and empower transmasculine sex workers.
You can get Working Guys as a PDF here, or as a paperback here.
You can also read a little about the history of transmasculinity and sex work here.
You know the common occurrence of a (usually younger) trans guy dating a cis guy and they start feminizing themselves while in that relationship? I don’t like that it’s treated as a character flaw of said trans dude and not what it actually is, abuse.
I really hate the “trans men are privileged because they’re men” argument because like. yeah, trans men are men, trans women are women, but society at large definitely doesn’t treat it that way. when people oppress you they don’t do it with Internal Logic, they do it in whatever way is easiest to oppress you with. you’re not a man, you’re not a woman, you’re a freak and I can treat you like whichever is most convenient to hurt you at the moment. I thought we knew this! genuinely, I’ve seen this exact concept in so many different posts until the whole tma/tme thing got extra popular, and it’s like. why!! outside of trans spaces I still see people discussing this topic, so where did it go in the one space you think it’d be most popular?? aren’t you tired??? aren’t you fucking tired????
Well, you see. Since these people LOVE playing the semantics game divorcing words from their context. “Cuntboy” is referring specifically to a body part that can cause people severe dysphoria. “Femboy” is a presentation + a gender identity. Literally nothing in the term itself referring to a body or a specific demographic whatsoever.
Also if literally anyone wants to use / reclaim either one for themselves I don’t give a fuck actually. Just don’t use them as a slur / impose it on other people.
When people who are boys and feminine self-identify with the term that has “fem” and “boy” in it
If anything I feel like insisting femboy ONLY applies to trans women / fems is extremely fucking bioessentialist. Last I checked, (unless they’re multi gendered / they have complex feelings about their past which is totally cool) trans women aren’t boys?! I understand that, as it is used as a slur against transfems, it’s misgendering on purpose which is a huge part of the harm inherent in the term, but there are real actual factual feminine boys out there. Words do in fact change according to the context in which they are used.
Well, you see. Since these people LOVE playing the semantics game divorcing words from their context. “Cuntboy” is referring specifically to a body part that can cause people severe dysphoria. “Femboy” is a presentation + a gender identity. Literally nothing in the term itself referring to a body or a specific demographic whatsoever.
Also if literally anyone wants to use / reclaim either one for themselves I don’t give a fuck actually. Just don’t use them as a slur / impose it on other people.
Considering how it is incredibly well know that a default distrust and hatred of masculinity led to radical feminism and trans exclusionary radical feminsts, a group that is incredibly violent and hateful to trans women, I find it fascinating (read: Incredibly short sighted and foolish) how many trans women are openly embracing that kind of rhetoric. They seem to alternate between "fuck terfs!" and "I really vibe with the idea that masculinity is inherently evil and corrupts everything it touches"
You get the feeling that to some trans women the problem is not that terfs are bigots, but that they target trans women specifically.
Fascinating how so many of them have rejected bioessentialism to instead sort of gendered soul essentialism where a trans dude is the same as a cis man due to an evil male soul, but in a way that is still bioessentialist because somehow trans dude having biologically female parts is a moral failing because you have an evil male soul and therefore aren’t supposed to be affected by systemic misogyny, that’s something that’s supposed to happen to trans women because they have good female souls and therefore are incapable of misogyny because no woman has ever been sexist before.
if you think saying "trans men have gynecological body parts and are thus affected by misogyny" is equal to saying "all trans men are actually women" then sweetheart you might be a bioessentialist
The contempt expressed at trans men who have to recloset or detransition to access women's resources for their survival is just caked in toxic masculinity. Absolutely slathered in it.
The belittling, the flavor of this disgust- it loudly communicates that a trans man should feel ashamed, because his submission to any proximity to womanhood is emasculating.
It is seen as self imposed, duplicitous, pathetically without backbone- whatever he's going through can't be that bad. Men aren't victims, and trans men don't face that bad of transphobia. Whatever it is- he should just grit his teeth through it. Rather than taking the easy way out.
Victimhood is for women, these resources are for women. What, you need this? Are you saying you're a woman? Are you really "letting" yourself be misgendered? What kind of man would do that?
Because real men get through it, real men don't let others tell them what they are, real men don't make themselves smaller for anyone, real men have stronger willpower than that, real men have more pride than that. Real men go down with the fucking ship.
And this is the life men live, right? They don't get help and they get through it anyway- and this is what you signed up for. This is what you wanted, right? You not cut out for it, tboy? You can't commit? It's not even that bad and you're still not even strong enough to handle it?
How frivolous your identity must be, so easily revokable whenever convenient for you. Nothing you could go through would justify you emasculating yourself like this. You're too weak willed.
The argument against transandrophobia that oppression against transmascs is transphobia and/or misogyny and never ever has to do with us being men/masc really baffles me
In instances where:
Transmascs are abused and told to "man up", "act like a man", etc.
Transmascs are said to inherently be more violent or prone to misogyny
Transmascs are said to be just like cis men (derogatory)
Transmascs are degraded for "trying to be men"
You cannot remove the denouncement of our masculinity from these. These exist because we are transmasc. These are not examples where we are degraded strictly for being presumed female or for transitioning. Our masculinity is part of the target, you cannot remove it.
To be clear, I am not saying "men are oppressed by patriarchy for being men." And I do acknowledge that transfems experience levels of oppression that transmascs do not
But we are oppressed for being transmasc. Our masculinity is considered a problem to cishet patriarchy because transmasc masculinity will never be the type of masculinity it upholds. It is masculinity they will not uphold due to misogyny and transphobia. And it is a denouncement of our masculinity nonetheless. And it is masculinity that is now being denounced in queer spaces as if it is masculinity held up by patriarchy
fascinating that a genuine trf (not terf, TRANS RADFEM) take is that trans men being upset with being literally misgendered and called women are misogynistic because it "proves we hate women"
like hey. come a little closer i have something to tell you. did you forget about gender dysphoria?
that xkcd meme about experts but its listening to cis women stumble through a conversation about how heterofatalism (not using that word obv) is, perhaps, maybe, if you think about it, not actually great feminism
like i AM glad to see this get discussed anywhere at all its just so draining to see people in a youtube comment make a pretty tame point about how fixating on "all men hate women men ain't shit having a boyfriend is embarassing lol" didn't actually do anything helpful for them and they are glad to have snapped out of that mindset, only to have to edit it to clarify that OBVIOUSLY they weren't making this point about men's feelings they don't care about men's feelings they are solely talking about how this hurts women & femmes!
just like. you dont need to do that actually. like it IS bad for women and its good to acknowledge that but you actually don't need to treat the possibility of caring about a man or men as a group as feminist kryptonite. its actually reflective of the deeper problem which is tied to oppositional sexism & how that is used as a tool (alongside many other tools) to prevent inter-gender solidarity and revolution.
women are not getting liberated without men & vice-versa & its just annoying how even when people are talking about how heterofatalism isn't good feminism, they still have to make sure to clarify to everyone that they don't care about men, they would never imply that men's feelings matter at all, which. i just think is not actually healthy for feminism. not because every individual needs to personally feel xyz about men.
its the implicit gender segregration. men and women are two entirely different groups, and i am going to convince you skeptics that this idea is feminist by engaging in oppositional sexism and showing that i can be anti-"men ain't shit" but in a way which never implies that there is any connective human tissue between men and women. "this is solely about how this hurts women & femmes" which of course is a group entirely distinct from men & mascs (an idea that should be on its face inane, because femmes should logically include femmes of all genders including men, right? otherwise, what the fuck is the goddamn term for????????)
if i had my way everyone would have to read the essay Collective Turn Off by Sophie Lewis before engaging in conversations around this. cause she has the guts and conviction in her feminist understanding to use the term misandry and get into the muck of women's feelings about men and call out how misandry always ends up hurting trans people, all trans people. that is what makes this conversation productive.
same with bell hooks' The Will to Change tbh. what both of these women do is never to deny the real pain and suffering and anger and exhaustion of women; instead, they respect themselves and other women as feminist enough to invite them to critically reflect on those feelings and to reflect on the world they must living and the actions that need to be taken to bring that world to life. i feel that a large amount of the damage done by pop feminism comes from this emphasis on emotional validation over actual productive consciousness-raising, replacing the goal of true social revolution with the goal of having our feelings that being oppressed hurts be validated over and over and over again. i feel like i always use this analogy but its really like an animal overgrooming out of stress; we just keep doing the same thing in the vain hope it will relieve us of the cosmic horror and stress of patriarchy, and it doesn't, and yet we keep relying on these basic repetitive ways of self-soothing because no other option feels real.
I actually hate it when people make a post about a trans experience and then get pissy when the trans people they weren't talking to/about relate to it. To sarcastically paraphrase: "This post isn't for trans men! I get that you all are relating to it in the comments and want to make your voices heard, but it's SOOOOOOOO important to me that we only talk about the trans people I want to talk about! Yes, it's an issue that affects all of us, and No, I didn't mention that I wanted this post to be exclusive to the people I'm talking about in the original post, but stop vocally relating to this post because it isn't about you! You're the bad guy for making this about yourself and my inherent exclusion of you from this conversation is Good and Moral, actually."
I get that you all want a special conversation that centers only people like yourself, but if you don't want other people to relate to it vocally, it actually is your job to say so up front and to not be a fucking asswipe to people who just want to contribute their experiences to a conversation that SHOULD include them but WON'T include them because you fuckos are obsessed with separatism.
And, to be clear, I am not against a post that is meant to center the voices of people with a specific identity, but I *do* think you become an asshole when you don't communicate that and then get mad & act like it's other people's fault for your inability to communicate.
Like, imagine getting mad at other trans people for relating to your issues and then pissing all over any solidarity you might have been able to find with them. I am so sick of everyone acting like oppression is a fucking exclusive club and not something we're all in together! If you make a post about trans oppression and other trans people relate to it that is a good chance to build connection & understanding -- but apparently the RIGHT trans people aren't relating to it enough for some people so they have to be a massive jerk instead.
Idk, y'all. It really sucks to be in community with people who are acting like dogs fighting over scraps. It sucks to be around people who constantly lash out at their fellow trans people instead of making any effort to be inclusive and welcoming. I hate your queer tribalism and I'm sick of separatism and I'm especially fucking sick of feeling like my goddamn oppression is treated like it's part of a competition against people who should care & relate & show support. You don't want certain trans people to relate to a post that they relate to, but what does that accomplish besides silencing trans people you want to exclude? Fuck that.
