This post is such a choice . Along with this post
(Preemptive sorry for any weird grammatical errors, can never catch them when I proofread)
I don't wanna repeat myself because I have been saying this ad nauseam but people have drank dumbass koolaid. That is the only reason I can even understand how people can honestly state this stuff.
How do we get to this point in life that we have seen Talia abuse Bruce, not just sexually, more than once over different time periods and see Talia rape Jason and still come to the conclusion that Talia is some misunderstood girlie.
(1) To continually deny that Talia committed sexual violence because she was "nice" to Bruce is wrong. Talia wasn't just nice to Bruce pre-crisis, she was concealing the League's workings and wrongdoings while wanting to bring Bruce onto their side. Talia has purposely betrayed Bruce's trust post-crisis and pre-crisis. No amount of 'She patched up his wounds a couple of issues in the 1970s' will change the fact.
(1) Can we not downplay that fact that Bruce was drugged, kidnapped, forced to marry someone, and was held hostage on a boat in a strange place? It's not hard to understand that this was a preconceived plan in which the Al Ghul felt that Bruce's consent didn't matter. It's in fact weird to look at this and not understand that this was massively abusive (It's very telling that the poster was only mildly concerned about the situation Bruce was put in but is more concerned about how Bruce reacted to Talia. Bruce should punched his abusers more often and not feel guilty about it actually.).
(1) Wanting Talia to be treated as a perpetrator of abuse when she is one is not wrong! The reason there is a push to recognize this fact is because Talia is the most famous example. Despite Bruce having multiple sexual abuse experiences, Talia is the one that people know of. That is the crux of the issue! Talia fans said that Bruce canonically lied about it and called Bruce an abuser/bad partner in response to it, Talia fans said it was sexist and racist and so the fandom forgot about it . Because of Talia fans, Bruce's victimhood was erased, whether or not Talia was the perpetrator because they poisoned the wells. Plain and simple.
(2) So the comic in which Talia manipulates and then rapes--oops, I mean has sex with Jason is the quintessential mother son relationship. Talia that isolated Jason from his family and fucked with Jason's head is the example of a perfectly motherly relationship. Ooookay. They really aren't beating the allegations are they.
(2) Jason can't have consented. And even if he 'did', it would still be grooming. Talia, the ex-girlfriend of Jason's father, sleeping with her ex's kid is disgusting. She is inherently in a place of power over him, adding to the fact that he was dead and she fed him lies once she resurrected him, meaning that it wasn't consensual.
To be very frank, it's literally radfem colored talking points. I'm seeing an uptick of these talking points (people are even coming after Dick now because he's a man basically). Because why are they even picking apart canonical abuse victims? Why are they painted Talia as this ultimate victim at the expense of Jason of all people?
Even with the first post's Male Victim Rep coming at the cost of a woman's character assassination is pretty much redfam talk. Talia is woman whereas Bruce is just a man, so Talia's victimhood is more important than Bruce's. Never mind that they both can be true. Talia, because woman good and man bad, is the ultimate victim.
It's also very interesting that there is only one example of sexual abuse Bruce experienced (considering they hold themselves to the high standard of being well-read with comics) they could find in Bruce's history (despite Pamala being right there) and they need to point out she is a Nazi first and foremost. I guess it's easier for people to conceive a female perpetrator if she is one.
I have very little to add here you are right on all fronts.
Also the second one is only annoyed at that poll cause Selina was winning. Now realistically Selina does not really have a huge motherly relationship with Jason that is true, realistically Noctura should be winning that poll but many people don't know who she is and Jason and Selina have never been overly antagonistic AND their backstories sort of line up in a way that they might be able to relate to each other, its just writers have never really taken advantage of that. But Talia fans get so triggered at the mere mention of Selina that they have to try and twist themselves and Talia into pretzels to try and argue how she's better. Selina fans don't need to do that because in wider pop culture they've won, everyone knows Catwoman, most people don't know Talia.
Talia SAed Jason. He could not consent in that situation he was under her care, he was likely underage still, or JUST became of legal age (which would still make it icky), he was traumatised, she had been feeding him lies about his father and how he had been forgotten and replaced and not avenged since she revived him. And then she slept with him. I dont care if the writer subsequently said he didnt know Jason's age, everything else about the situation is abusive still. Plus you dont have a "motherly" relationship with someone you sleep with, at least not a healthy one. ANY of Bruce's other love interests are instantly a better mother figure to Jason even if all they've ever said to him was "hello" purely for not having taken advantage of a young traumatised teenager. It is that simple.
