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The Shared History pilot episode. Cass and Nat learn about two amazing women from American history: Sybil Luddington and Wilma Mankiller.

SHARED HISTORY EP. 001 - CHER’D HISTORY

It's our pilot episode! Cass and Nat go colonial and then modern as they learn about two amazing women from American history: Sybil Luddington and Wilma Mankiller. Also notable: Cass drops her first Nic Cage reference, DJ Rip drops his first beat, and Nat drops her first teacher name. Let the bits begin!

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Sybil Luddington’s Ride Sybil Luddington’s Statue

Wilma Mankiller Wilma Mankiller with President Clinton

Sources for Wilma Mankiller story: Biography.com, WomensHistory.org, New York Times, Wikipedia

Original Theme: Garreth Spinn Original Art: Sarah Cruz

TRANSCRIPTION...

Rip Camillucci 0:03 Welcome to arcade audio.

Natalie Younger 0:28 Welcome to shared history

Cass Maher 0:31 where the points are made up and the history doesn't matter. Or so you thought,

Natalie Younger 0:37 yes, this is a shared history, the podcast where we are going to talk and just tell each other's story, a little story about history that maybe wasn't in your history books

Cass Maher 0:48 that probably should have been brought.

Natalie Younger 0:50 Yeah, probably should have been. I'm Natalie Younger.

Cass Maher 0:54 I'm Cass Maher.

Natalie Younger 0:55 And on the ones and twos

Cass Maher 1:01 is our producer, Rip.

Rip Camillucci 1:03 I got my full DJ set up here. It's about to get lit, y'all

Cass Maher 1:06 just wait till the beat drops halfway through the podcast, and we're not gonna tell you

Natalie Younger 1:10 it's gonna get turnt.

Cass Maher 1:12 It's a drinking game. Whenever the beat drops, y'all have to take a drink.

Natalie Younger 1:14 Yeah

Cass Maher 1:15 Please don't do that.

Natalie Younger 1:15 and then you have to call your high school history teacher and apologize.

Rip Camillucci 1:20 All on your way to work.

Natalie Younger 1:23 This is our first episode. So enjoy our wackadoos

Cass Maher 1:27 We're shaking our sillies out.

Natalie Younger 1:29 Cass and I started this podcast because we both are big old history nerds. And

Cass Maher 1:34 Natalie was going to write a book.

Natalie Younger 1:36 And then that was a lot of work.

Cass Maher 1:37 And I was like, 'No, you're not.'

Natalie Younger 1:40 It'd be a lot easier. And I'd be a lot less beholden to proper citation if I justtalked into a microphone with a friend of mine.

Cass Maher 1:50 Also, I'm picturing if the book was basically just like you're writing it out the way we're talking. Yeah. Be so incoherent.

Natalie Younger 1:57 Mm hmm. Yeah. And so I knew that Cass is a big old nerd. And we also have just been needing to hang out.

Cass Maher 2:05 Yeah, Natalie,what's our shared history?

Natalie Younger 2:08 Oh, I'm glad you asked. Cass, Rip and I are all improvisers and comedians in the currently sunny city of Chicago,

Cass Maher 2:19 the one sunny day we'll get all year

Natalie Younger 2:20 Yeah, and we're going to be inside talking into microphones during it. And yeah, we met, we met at a improv show where we played really obnoxious Minnesotan and church ladies,

Cass Maher 2:32 all of our names were Carol,

Natalie Younger 2:33 Yeah and it was magical immediately. And we were like, We need a Hangout. But we both over commit ourselves. So the only way that we could trick ourselves into actually hanging out was by making it a project.

Cass Maher 2:46 Natalie, I'm busy, I can't let's write a sketch show together, that'll be good. What if we do a podcast?

Natalie Younger 2:52 Great.

Cass Maher 2:54 So almost a year and a half after,

Natalie Younger 2:56 after we said we should hang out, we finally are hanging out at the not a show. And it's still work related. So the way that this shenanigans will work is we have both chosen a person or an event, I believe we both did people from history, and we're just gonna, you know, tell each other about it. I know for me personally, I was really excited about focusing on women and people of color in history, because I feel like especially in-- Well, no, in all history--I was gonna say, especially in US history, they're not given the page count that they should be.

Cass Maher 3:36 Yeah. And a lot of their accomplishments are passed off to your other people.

Natalie Younger 3:42 But for this episode, we gave ourselves a theme and our theme was women and US history. I had to remember. And yes, I did it correctly.

Cass Maher 3:53 Yeah.

Natalie Younger 3:57 So yeah, so we're just going to tell you a story. That's this is a story time with your friends Cass and Nat and Rip.

Cass Maher 4:05 the reason why Natalie is not doing a book, and we're doing it this way, is again, as previously stated, we're both nerds. So we like are doing the research. But also we are not professional historians.

Natalie Younger 4:18 Oh, yeah, hashtag disclaimer.

Cass Maher 4:20 So some of this may be embellished or maybe not 100%. Correct. But you're going to get the basic gist. And we're mainly just going to talk about what we

Natalie Younger 4:32 Yeah, this podcast brought to you by the internet and our

Cass Maher 4:36 subjectivity

Natalie Younger 4:37 and yeah, and our memories a little bit. Yeah. Mostly the internet and subjectivity.

Cass Maher 4:45 Kidsdon't cite this in a paper.

Natalie Younger 4:47 Yeah.

Cass Maher 4:49 Cool. Well, I'll kick us off.

Natalie Younger 4:50 Yeah, do it.

Cass Maher 4:52 So I chose someone who I had briefly heard about and only pretty recently, feel like you may have heard of this person, since you are kind of a history buff. Sybil Ludington.

Natalie Younger 5:07 I don't believe I'm familiar.

Cass Maher 5:10 Oh, my gosh. Sybil Ludington is a badass bitch. So Sybil Ludington was a young girl during the American Revolution

Natalie Younger 5:22 Oh was she a Daughter of the American Revolution

Cass Maher 5:24 One might say she was. And Sybil's claim to no fame was she had

Natalie Younger 5:32 That's so sad. I'm sorry.

Cass Maher 5:34 Getting real. She had a Midnight Ride akin to Paul Revere.

Natalie Younger 5:40 Okay

Cass Maher 5:42 but unlike Paul Revere, Well, I'll tell you Sybil Ludington's story and then tell you how Paul Revere didn't quite stack up. Paul Revere is a great man. But Sybil Ludington, kind of

Natalie Younger 5:55 Good hat. Great hat on that man.

Cass Maher 5:57 Yep. Love the lantern. So Sybil Ludington was 16 years old when she did her ride. And she traveled twice a distance of Paul Revere at in more in a longer time span because Paul Revere

Natalie Younger 6:13 I thought you were gonna say in like, half the time. Because when women do it, we get it done more efficiently.

Cass Maher 6:18 Well, it was kind of -- I'll explain it. So, she rode 40 miles, which is about 65 kilometers, which means nothing to anyone but

Natalie Younger 6:27 I'm so glad that you transferred it to kilometers. We are in the United States.

Cass Maher 6:31 I every time I every article that I researched, it was like 40 miles about 65 kilometers and I was like no one needs that.

Natalie Younger 6:38 This is for our fans abroad.

Cass Maher 6:40 Oh, yes. You're welcome.

Natalie Younger 6:42 Our budding audience abroad.

Cass Maher 6:45 So yeah, so she was born in 1767. And by the time the revolution hit, her father was a leader of their local militia. And they got word that there a nearby city of Danbury, Connecticut. They lived on the border of New York and Connecticut and they got word that Danbury was going to be attacked by the British and her dad being a militia man was got this Intel and was like we need to gather the militia. They were all home on their farms. And Sybil was like I can do it. So he's like dope.

Natalie Younger 7:31 I think you said this, and I miss it. Where is Sybil? Is she in Danbury?

Cass Maher 7:35 She's in in your New York. So it was called. It was called Fredericksville, the city she was in, which is like, like an hour north of New York City...by car which they didn't have, but they renamed the town Ludingtonville because of her.

Natalie Younger 7:56 That's a mouthful, though. They could have just named the town Ludington.

Cass Maher 7:59 Yeah,

Natalie Younger 8:00 like that's already a town name.

Cass Maher 8:01 Yeah. Like right there

Natalie Younger 8:03 Literally Luddingtown

Cass Maher 8:05 Full stop

Natalie Younger 8:05 What if they named it Ludingtonton and

Cass Maher 8:06 Ludington town

Natalie Younger 8:08 Ludingtontown

Cass Maher 8:09 Yep,

Natalie Younger 8:09 That's in the UK. That's 100% in the UK.

Cass Maher 8:11 New Ludington town. Yes anyway so so he got this Intel all the militia was spread out on their farms. And it was they got this at like 9pm so it's dark out and keep in mind they're in New England and so this is not like we're sitting in the the great all God's country Midwest, very flat very easy to see and know where you're going there like fully wooded and it's been raining. It's dark out and it's all muddy. And it's it's this is a hard ride to make. So she jumps on her horse, Star. I felt that was important to know the horse's name

Natalie Younger 8:53 Yeah that horse is a goddamn hero

Cass Maher 8:55 right? And they said she she had a stick, like a pointy stick. That's all she had to like prod her horse and stuff. And she rode she hit four towns. Now keep in mind, Paul Revere got to Lexington stopped and had a drink with Sam Adams

Natalie Younger 9:16 Like you do.

Cass Maher 9:16 waited for his friend. What is it, Samuel Dawes?

Natalie Younger 9:21 Yeah, Paul Revere is using the buddy system.

Cass Maher 9:23 William Dawes. Yeah, he was just like, chilling until William Dawes showed up. And William had the same message. He's like, you guys, guess what the British are? Oh, hey, Paul. What's up? You tell him about the British coming. That's what I was saying. So they hung out how to drink and then we're like, Let's go together. Paul Revere never made it to the town that he was supposed to.

Natalie Younger 9:42 Where was he supposed to go?

Cass Maher 9:43 He was supposed to go to

Natalie Younger 9:45 I don't know any of this. I'm trash with US history.

Cass Maher 9:48 Yeah, but but I don't know what the final town but he got intercepted by the British. Okay. And he was with his friend William Dawes and Samuel Prescott. And they escaped. Paul Revere didn't they confiscated his horse. So he technically didn't finish the ride

Natalie Younger 10:03 what was his horses name?

Cass Maher 10:04 They don't know because he didn't own a horse at the time he had to borrow someone else's like a hack

Natalie Younger 10:09 Just bummin' a horse.

Cass Maher 10:11 I want you all to know I think Paul Revere is amazing. But in relation to this story, it just doesn't.

Natalie Younger 10:15 He doesn't need it. You don't give him the praise. Everyone's like great. He gets it.

Cass Maher 10:19 So he didn't finish his ride. He took time to like hang out with Sam Adams. And then he had to walk back to Lexington where they said he caught the end of the battle. Like it's kind of it's kind of a downer. Great. So anyway, at the end, he was 41 at the time. So Sibel was a 16 year old girl, she made a 40 mile ride in pouring rain, treacherous mud woods that are really easy to get lost in. And she actually got intercepted by a British officer who tried to pull her from her horse. She fought him off with her pointy stick- with her stick. And the reason she had this deck was to you know, proper horse, which friends be kind to animals. But also she didn't get off a horse the whole time. She didn't have time to like, jump off the horse and like knock on the door. Hey guys, sorry.

Natalie Younger 11:09 She was she like rapping on the doors

Cass Maher 11:11 She was rapping on the door while she's on her horse going from house to house like dope British are here, y'all know I gotta hit three more towns. Um, and she has she

Natalie Younger 11:22 activate your phone tree.

Cass Maher 11:25 So yeah, so she gathered 500 militia between the times of 9pm and Dawn which I don't know what that is five 6am it was still dark.

Natalie Younger 11:33 It depends on the time of year

Cass Maher 11:34 It depends on the time of year, Did they have daylight savings time yet? Did Ben Franklin screw us all over by then? Yeah, and I'm looking at my notes. Yeah, so she fought off several British officers. I think a highwayman stopped her too and got 500 militia. The by the time the militia was gathered and made it to Danbury they, they weren't able to save the town. But by that time, most of the people knew so most of the people had gotten out of Danbury

Natalie Younger 12:11 So it was kind of like a ghost town that the British were invading.

Cass Maher 12:13 Yeah, they I think I mean, some people still died and they burned down a few buildings. The reason the British were going there was to intercept like ammunitions and supplies and stuff. So I think they were able to get like, most of that stuff out clear the town a little bit. And when the militia got there, they were still able to force the British to retreat.

Natalie Younger 12:38 Oh, cool.

Cass Maher 12:38 Yeah. into close to the New Jersey sound. Which you guys all know where that is. Yeah.

Natalie Younger 12:45 Sounds like it's in New Jersey.

Cass Maher 12:48 Nailed it. They were they were able to force them to retreat, which then is like known as the battle at Ridgefield, so I don't know that at all. But that was mentioned basically,

Natalie Younger 13:01 I mean, if Sybil wasn't there. We don't care about it anymore for the purpose of this podcast

Cass Maher 13:04 Basically, they did their jobs. Sybil was a bad ass. She was 16 years old. She had 11 brothers and sisters.

Natalie Younger 13:13 That's too many.

Cass Maher 13:14 So there's this really cool story of her dad was in there. This was before the ride. Her dad was like in their home and a bunch of British loyalists. 51 British loyalists were approaching the house to like, capture her dad. And it was just like him, I think they had one guard or patrolman. So Sybil like planted candles all around their house, and she lined up her brothers and sisters and had them march in like a military formation. So all the British loyalists saw was all these candles, and then like faint outlines of like marching a small army of 12 children, and they and they didn't so and then they they went away. They're like, Oh, there's too many people. We can't fight them. We've got 51 they've got a full troop. And that was Sybil.

Natalie Younger 14:08 So theatrical Sybil, the drama!

Cass Maher 14:11 Right. Like that's like, have you ever seen the Patriot where they like make all the scarecrows? Screw Mel Gibson. But she did that but real life and better.

Natalie Younger 14:22 It's like, but but for real and better. And without anti semitism.

Cass Maher 14:29 Woof. We'll get into that in a different podcast. Yeah. Also, her mom and dad are first cousins, which doesn't really matter. But I thought that was funny and weird. Yeah.

Natalie Younger 14:39 That's a product of the times

Cass Maher 14:40 a product of the times. So so she was she made, God, a 40 mile ride at 16. overnight in the rain. That's hard. And fighting off a British person. Just let me tell you, I've done that before, it is hard. And yeah, she was. She was thanked personally by George Washington, which was a big deal. Y'all know how obsessed with George Washington everyone was.

Natalie Younger 15:10 He was the first celebrity

Cass Maher 15:11 he was the first celebrity

Natalie Younger 15:12 American celebrity

Cass Maher 15:14 before they before we came up with our presidential system and everything like George was they wanted to make him their king. Yeah, he was deified like know, if you got to see him. It was like touching Beyonce. So the fact that he personally thanked this 16 year old girl was a huge deal. And, and, and then she just went off to live a quiet life. She got married, she had a bunch of babies. And and she died at age 77. And no one knew about any of this. No one talks about it.

Natalie Younger 15:51 That's a long life for that time.

Cass Maher 15:52 Yeah, right. Um her great grandson, or her grandson or something, was the first one to write it down. And this didn't get published until like 1880 or 1900. So I don't do math that that's almost what like 100 years.

Natalie Younger 16:08 Because they were at that point. I feel like they were like, oh, oh, but But Paul

Cass Maher 16:13 Yeah. But Paul

Natalie Younger 16:16 we can't admit that we were wrong and that we gave all the credit to a mediocre middle aged white man.

Cass Maher 16:23 and so her grandson wrote all this down. And it was like well known history in the town. Like they renamed the town about her. And then it wasn't until this woman historian and like the 1880s found about this story and published it and some magazine or article. And there's this awesome statue at the halfway point between her ride of her on a horse. And like the horse

Natalie Younger 16:47 Fighting a British man?

Cass Maher 16:48 The horse is kind of reared up and she's got her like, she's got her stick in her hand. And she's like, waving it and it's this awesome statue that no one's going to see because it's in the middle of Connecticut like wilderness. But God what a badass broad

Natalie Younger 17:03 That is dope. You know, I've never heard of her.

Cass Maher 17:06 She's really really cool.

Natalie Younger 17:08 I am admittedly very I am. I am quite literally trash with US history.

Cass Maher 17:13 Same

Natalie Younger 17:13 because our country's young and we study things that don't matter in school.

Cass Maher 17:18 Yeah. And then they hit the like,

Natalie Younger 17:20 sorry, Mr. Dolan,

Cass Maher 17:21 they hit these. They hit these like, these random highlights of you know, like Paul Revere has been mythologized.

Natalie Younger 17:30 Yeah.

Cass Maher 17:30 Also during the American Revolution, like, there's no way we should have won that war.

Natalie Younger 17:35 Oh, no,

Cass Maher 17:36 like we had, we had no troops who were all you know, like, like underground - ya know if the British like suspected you they would take out and so I feel like a lot of what helped us win was this like mythologizing and like, you know, the American Revolution was basically just like a inspirational basketball movie where there's that the coach gets, no seriously, it's like it's a buncha it's a bunch of ragtag group that shouldn't win and shouldn't make it to the state finals and then Denzel Washington comes out and he gives a "You Are Titans" gives an inspirational speech and it's - somehow it works

Natalie Younger 18:19 And then we all flap our wings. We all end

Cass Maher 18:21 Americans are all heart

Natalie Younger 18:23 And we quack

Cass Maher 18:23 And not a lot of planning. I feel so so yeah.

Natalie Younger 18:27 Yep, that tracks

Dude that's cool. Ludington, Sybil Ludington

Cass Maher 18:34 only one D which through me - that's not important, but

Natalie Younger 18:40 It's just just the one D

Cass Maher 18:41 is just the one D because the the town name was so long, they had to cut a D just to make it shorter

Natalie Younger 18:46 Jesus. Well, I'm going to go into mine now. Just because we're talking about Sybil Ludington, and what a what a proper name, segue to the most badass name, even though it's not for the correct reasons ever. I am here to tell you the story of Wilma Mankiller.

Cass Maher 19:10 Fuck off. Is that a real name? Or did she change it?

Natalie Younger 19:15 That is her real name. It is a however, it is in reference to a tribal military rank.

Cass Maher 19:25 Got it

Natalie Younger 19:26 And geographic region, but I think it's the military rank first, and then the region she grew up in was named for that. Because of her for her grandfather, neither here nor there. So Wilma Mankiller full name Wilma Pearl Mankiller, because you got to soften it a little. When your lastname is

Cass Maher 19:49 Wilma Mankiller.

Natalie Younger 19:51 When your last name was man killer, you gotta throw a little pearl in there. So I'm jumping, jumping forward in time, to the most of the story takes place in like the 60s 70s. But Wilma Mankiller was born in November 18 1945 that's a day after my husband's birthday. Not in 1945

Cass Maher 20:15 your husband's middle name is also Pearl, which is bizarre

Natalie Younger 20:18 is crazy. In a town I can't pronounce in Oklahoma,

Cass Maher 20:24 show me

Natalie Younger 20:25 Tahlequah?

Cass Maher 20:30 Well, I mean, it's got a Tahlequah. Yeah, there's no way I would have been able to pronounce it better. I just wanted to see it

Natalie Younger 20:36 The confidence, though. She's a descendant of the Cherokee Indians. And they were so there in Oklahoma, because they were forced to leave their homelands, you know, hashtag Trail of Tears, Forced to leave their homelands, to make way for white settlers in 1830s. So she's the descendant of the Cherokee Indians who were relocated there. And then she was kind of subsequently relocated, but she is the sixth of 11 children, big families on this episode, and she grew up on Mankiller Flats, which is located near Rocky Mountain Oklahoma, which I don't know where that is, either

Cass Maher 21:20 Mankiller Flats

Natalie Younger 21:21 Man killer flats.

Cass Maher 21:23 I can already see this movie

Natalie Younger 21:25 Right? You see, like the title pop up?

Cass Maher 21:27 That's like john Ford western action going on

Natalie Younger 21:34 yes. So So I believe that like, I believe that her grandfather, great grandfather had this tribal rank, and therefore that was his last name, or considered his surname. And he he owned like several plots of land and mankiller flats. So the land is indirectly named for her, not her for the land.

Cass Maher 22:00 geography lesson here as well

Natalie Younger 22:02 you know, just doing what I can. So she was she was grew up on mankiller flats, before moving with her family in 1956 to San Francisco, California, as a part of the Federal relocation act to move Indians off of the reservations and into large cities. Because the government can't make up their mind. They're like first Native Americans please move out of your home territories over here. You know what? Now you're all in this place. We'd rather have you in big cities. Let's move you over here. One biography said that they moved in hopes of a better life and they were a poor family with like 13 mouths to feed

Cass Maher 22:39 Also I feel like every history book is like, they throw on "they moved in hopes of a better life" to soften, to 'pearl' you know, that relocation forcibly

Natalie Younger 22:51 well and then another another bio a read said that was her dad Charlie's idea and that her mother Irene was not into it and did not want to go to San Francisco

Cass Maher 23:00 mom's always like "Charlie, I swear to God"

Natalie Younger 23:03 "This is my home Charlie."

Cass Maher 23:06 You wanna Man Killer?

Natalie Younger 23:09 All biographies basically said that, like Wilma didn't want to leave Oklahoma got it. Which I guess lends to spoiler alert she ends up going back to Oklahoma at some point. But so they go to California and hopes of better life but you know, guess what? California was still rough economically even in even in the 50s San Francisco was very expensive.

Cass Maher 23:30 California was never really killing it, I feel like California was a rough place for a long time

Natalie Younger 23:36 Yeah. No, they still were like impoverished in in San Francisco - maybe - I'm just gonna blame tech bros is even though this is the 50s

Cass Maher 23:48 Guys, check out this rotary phone

Natalie Younger 23:51 and surprise, surprise, loaded with discrimination against Native Americans. But reluctance aside it was in California that Wilma first got into activism. I guess I should have started with Wilma Mankiller is a

Cass Maher 24:07 Native American activist.

Natalie Younger 24:09 And the first female chief of the Cherokee Nation

Cass Maher 24:12 we are gilding so many lilies -- wait she was the first female chief

Natalie Younger 24:16 uh huh

Cass Maher 24:16 Wilma!

Natalie Younger 24:18 But, so, activism has been like a through line in her entire story. So they they moved to California. Her first like foray into activism was with San Francisco's Indian center and leader with, and this was a really dope story that I got to then go off on a tangent on, the Native American efforts to reclaim Alcatraz Island. So in...

Cass Maher 24:45 Alcatraz is so cool. I'm sorry. The Rock?

Natalie Younger 24:50 Great Nick Cage movie totally by him as a chemist.

Cass Maher 24:52 I love that movie

Natalie Younger 24:54 Yeah, so Alcatraz has been closed. The penitentiary had been closed in 1964. And been declared surplus federal property. And no, that was in 64, the penitentiary close in 63. And, according to the Treaty of Fort Laramie, in 1868, between the US and the Lakota, all retired, abandoned, or out of use Federal Land could be was, was by right could be reclaimed by the Native American tribes that had been forced out of it to begin with

Cass Maher 25:24 Hell yeah.

Natalie Younger 25:26 So in 1964, well, in 1964 a small group of Sioux demonstrated on the island for like four hours, and they were like, "Hey, can we have this back?" And then in 1969, from November 69, to June 71. So for 19 months, a bunch of American Indians from various tribes and their supporters occupied to the island, and like, lived there. Until they were like, forcibly removed by the US government.

Cass Maher 26:02 Shocker

Natalie Younger 26:02 So they were like, where there was,

Cass Maher 26:05 That's a through line here too.

Natalie Younger 26:08 Yeah. So they, their, their -- Their argument was that they that the Native American people should get Alcatraz Island back

Cass Maher 26:15 Because this in your peoples law, Americans.

Natalie Younger 26:19 Yeah. And they use the they use the Treaty of Fort Laramie as like their precedent. Yeah. legal term. Yeah, so. So this was going on and, and Wilma was was intrigued by it and like, kind of like inspired by it. She would make food and meals and bring them to the people on the island and raise money for their causes. And, so it was in San Francisco that she got like super into activism. But first marriage, she got married at 17. It was 1963. Her husband's name is Hector Hugo Olaya de Bardi. Which I just wanted to say but he doesn't matter.

Cass Maher 26:57 That is a fun name.

Natalie Younger 26:59 right? A lot of names.

Cass Maher 27:00 Hector Hugo.

Natalie Younger 27:01 Hector Hugo Olaya de Bardi. And they had two daughters, Felicia and Gina.

Cass Maher 27:08 Lot of great names in this story

Natalie Younger 27:09 Good names in this story. But it's all this....wait. Yeah. Okay. So she got super into the occupation. She was very intrigued by the occupation of Alcatraz prison. And her husband was like, "Hey, why don't you just remain a traditional housewife?" And she was like, 'Nope, I mean, my name is man killer. So"

Cass Maher 27:33 what do you think, Hector Hugo?

Natalie Younger 27:35 Hector, I don't gotta listen to you. My last name is man killer and I got shit to do.

Cass Maher 27:39 I do what I want.

Natalie Younger 27:40 I don't need no man. Also, they got divorced later anyway, which is why I keep saying he doesn't matter.

Cass Maher 27:46 checks out.

Natalie Younger 27:47 sorry, Hector. So she said, Oh, that time I have this quote, quote, "when Alcatraz occurred, I became aware of what needed to be done to let the rest of the world know that Indians had rights too" and this is when she went like all in on activism. So she took night courses and and like, got her bachelor's while working on as a coordinator for like Indian programs in Oakland public schools. And she did all this stuff in San Francisco. But then like the second she divorced Hector, she was like, "bye I'm going back to Oklahoma. because I never wanted to leave Oklahoma in the first place."

Cass Maher 28:21 Cuz California in the 60s suuuucks.

Natalie Younger 28:23 Um, yeah. So she goes back to Oklahoma and remains living on Cherokee reservation in 1977. And she brings her daughters, she's like "byeeee...she's like their man killers now, we're leaving"

Cass Maher 28:40 Come to my flats.

Natalie Younger 28:41 Yes. Come to my These are my flats.

Cass Maher 28:43 These are your flats now.

Natalie Younger 28:44 These are my These are my sensible flats.

Cass Maher 28:46 Everything the light touches is your

Natalie Younger 28:49 I imagined the light touches a lot on flats, not a lot of peaks to cast a shadow?

Cass Maher 28:54 That's a lot of light, Mankiller.

Natalie Younger 28:57 So she goes back to Oklahoma in 77. And resumes activism in Oklahoma. In 79, I believe is when we begin a trend of Wilma almost dying.

Cass Maher 29:10 Jesus

Natalie Younger 29:10 So, in 1979 she was in a serious car crash she was driving back from I think she was getting her master's. And she was driving back and had to like - from classes to where she was living. It was a long drive late at night. She has like what tried to like around a car or another car tried to go around the car and she gets in a serious had a head on collision. That like she was like in physical therapy and had to have like 17 surgeries and whatnot. But she lives, the driver of the other car does not live, the driver the other car is her best friend. So she gets in a head on collision with her best friend. And then after after recovering she was diagnosed with my my mya...I'm a doctor... myasthenia gravis, a chronic neuromuscular disease that makes speaking and simple motor functions increasingly difficult and can lead to complete paralysis. So that's like basically when she's kind of recovered from the car accident she gets diagnosed with that

Cass Maher 30:15 it's hard to be an activist when you can't talk very well.

Natalie Younger 30:17 Yeah. And there's, but there's, i guess i Cherokee vision of being of good mind which to Mankiller she took it to mean like thinking positively about what happens in your life and kind of taking whatever comes your way and and still doing the best to serve others. So she heckin' kept going. which becomes a theme it because she also had a kidney transplant, breast cancer, and lymphoma and I read one bio that said that she actually had to have two kidney transplants. So by the time..

you only got two of those

so she had no original kidneys

Cass Maher 30:51 in in the 70s

Natalie Younger 30:52 not made with original parts

Cass Maher 30:53 I don't want to get a 17 surgeries in the 70s

Natalie Younger 30:57 Yeah. Big ups to her brother Donald for the kids a donation. At least one of them. I don't know where the second one came from

Cass Maher 31:04 Donny, your mankiller but you saved this woman.

Natalie Younger 31:08 Aww what a great logline for Donny's life story. But this isn't about Donny

Cass Maher 31:16 No.

Natalie Younger 31:17 So after not dying like the first time, question mark, she took charge of the newly created Community Development Department of the Cherokee Nation. And the core of her activism in Oklahoma was kind of around what she called like self help projects. Basically, she would she would design projects that would for like rural communities that would help better them, but they were like designed to be like where you're going to help better yourself like this, you it's they would do the she would design projects to like get the community involved so that they could play a role in their own betterment and help solve their own problems and whatnot.

Cass Maher 31:55 Teach a man to fish

Natalie Younger 31:56 Yeah. The most notable one was a project in Bell, Oklahoma. It's a small village on a reservation where volunteers from the community helped construct an 18 mile long water system because they didn't have fresh water and repair dangerous housing. So that was the one

Cass Maher 32:13 was this woman just exhausted all the time?

Natalie Younger 32:16 from probably from almost dying constantly.

Cass Maher 32:18 Yeah. Hey, hold on guys. I have limited speech and motor functions

Natalie Younger 32:23 and every cancer

Cass Maher 32:24 let me get my masters also running rural outreach development programs with probably no funds and

Natalie Younger 32:32 and raising two, I'm sure, badass daughters

two Mankillers.

Yeah, two mankillers -- takes a lot out of you

Cass Maher 32:38 damn, all well thinking positive thoughts.

Natalie Younger 32:40 Yes. So the project at Bell, the water system, got her recognized in Ms. Magazine as Woman of the Year in 1987. So good for her

Cass Maher 32:49 it better.

Natalie Younger 32:50 And she met her, she met her second husband working on that project cuz I believe he was a volunteer she recruited. His name was Charlie Soap.

Cass Maher 33:01 So many good names.

Natalie Younger 33:04 It's a good name. It's a good-- Charlie soap.

Cass Maher 33:06 He should have taken her last name.

Natalie Younger 33:08 He was a full blooded, Native American -- full blooded Cherokee. And was totally cool with her not being a traditional housewife. I'm sorry, I'm hating so much on Hector.

Cass Maher 33:20 Hector Hugo.

Natalie Younger 33:21 But so all of that is just like that's before she even did what she's like most known for.

Cass Maher 33:26 Oh, we haven't even hit that yet?

Natalie Younger 33:28 We haven't hit her becoming chief.

Cass Maher 33:29 Oh, that's right.

Natalie Younger 33:30 Yeah. So she became she became deputy principal chief of the Cherokee Nation in 83. And then the principal chief resigned in 85. He resigned to take a position in like the some Federal Bureau Bureau of Indian Affairs or something. Something

Cass Maher 33:49 bureaucratic

Natalie Younger 33:50 bureaucratic and seemly, incorrectly named. And, and so. So she became the first female principal chief of the modern Cherokee Nation by like, just default because she was deputy. Yeah. And at that, I think at that time, and still, the Cherokee Nation is the second largest tribe in the US after the Navajo but yeah, so she just took over for him because he left for the other role. Yeah. So she had to run for reelection. So she ran for reelection in 87. And even though she had already done the job, had a hell of a time. Like faced a lot of opposition.

Oh, yeah.

Not for any like, particularly like stances, but just because she was a woman.

Cass Maher 34:38 Yeah. Cuz clearly she had done the work and had proven she can do her job.

Natalie Younger 34:43 She done the work at that point for two years

Cass Maher 34:44 you know that word 'electability' that we keep hearing?

Natalie Younger 34:50 Yeah, like her car is vandalized, she was threatened. And what's weird about this is that I guess like, in traditional Charokee culture, like women play a vital role in social and political issues like and women are women. empowered women are like a normal thing.

Cass Maher 35:07 Yeah, it's not a matriarchal society. But they are

Natalie Younger 35:09 No, there's like a balance

Cass Maher 35:11 But they are very valued.

Natalie Younger 35:14 So, in one of her in her autobiography, Mankiller argued that like European conquest, disrupted kind of that idea of balance between the two genders in the Cherokee Nation, and,

Cass Maher 35:27 and also a lot of Native American tribes believe in multiple genders, that there are multiple genders.

Natalie Younger 35:34 That's fair.

Cass Maher 35:34 That's dope.

Natalie Younger 35:36 so yeah, so she just felt that having a female chief was like a good - a small but strong step back to achieving that gender balance.

Cass Maher 35:46 Oh, that's awesome.

Natalie Younger 35:47 That they used to have traditionally before Europeans came and fucked up everything,

Cass Maher 35:53 man, we kind of did a lot of that...fuckin up things.

Natalie Younger 35:57 Yeah. Shared History: What did what did...

Nat & Cass 36:02 How did white people ruin this / How did the whites ruin everything?

Natalie Younger 36:06 I mean, that could literally be the tagline of most things.

Cass Maher 36:11 Most history books.

Natalie Younger 36:12 most history books. But obviously she won the election in 87. Ran again for reelection in 91. Won again. And then retired in 95. Because

Cass Maher 36:26 Girl needs a break! Oh my god,

Natalie Younger 36:29 she cited illness and I'm like, I feel like ill health... you, you carried through a lot ill health. You get to--You don't need a reason to retire.

Cass Maher 36:38 Wilma you couldn've use ill health as a reason to retire a long time ago, you're tired.

Natalie Younger 36:43 Like you've you've done enough.

Cass Maher 36:45 You did the work.

Natalie Younger 36:47 When she was chief she focused on like education and job training and health care

Cass Maher 36:51 a lot more of that, like, self sufficient.

Natalie Younger 36:54 Yeah, helping yourselves. She also worked with the federal government to pilot like, more self governance of Native American tribes. She worked with the EPA, and she, she, I love this, "She worked to improve the image of Native Americans while staunchly combating the misappropriation of Native Heritage."

Cass Maher 37:16 Oh my god.

Natalie Younger 37:18 Yes.

Cass Maher 37:18 That's a big task.

Natalie Younger 37:20 Yeah.

Cass Maher 37:20 Especially in the 70s.

Late 70s and 80s, trying to be like, "yes, we agree. We're important and our culture and our heritage is impressive and important. Please stop taking it as your own."

Yeah. Village People

Natalie Younger 37:35 Please stop buying your children dream catchers.

Cass Maher 37:39 Hey, Coachella take off the headdresses.

Natalie Younger 37:42 Yeah, I had a dream catcher as a kid. And I'm like, I feel bad about it.

Cass Maher 37:47 I went to summer camp, and we made them all the time with like yarn and stuff.

Natalie Younger 37:52 What a beautiful piece of heritage that you made...your traditional yarn dreamcatcher. But yeah, so by the end of her tenure, like the budget for the Cherokee Nation was like 150 million dollars. And they and the membership population had like doubled. And yeah, and then after leaving office, because she was like, "Guys, I don't feel great. And I've done a lot. I'm tired," and then retires and immediately is like, still lecturing. Still like, like, authors, several books.

Cass Maher 38:29 She's a woman who's like, you know what, I'm gonna take a break and focus on me. All right, I've got a rally coming up. We're gonna have some speeches and some outreach stuff.

Natalie Younger 38:39 I gotta teach a class at this local college. I think she taught at Dartmouth, that's not a local college,

Cass Maher 38:46 Of course she did

Natalie Younger 38:46 you know, small college, Dartmouth

Cass Maher 38:48 casual you ever heard of Dartmouth?

Natalie Younger 38:49 ever heard of it? You wouldn't hear of it, it's very small.

Cass Maher 38:53 Do you know what she got her master's in?

Natalie Younger 38:55 I do not know what she got her masters in.

Cass Maher 38:57 I'm sure it was some sort of, like, like, women's lib or like, you know Poli Sci, it was probably like a double masters. But like "I don't need to talk about that. I got work to do."

Natalie Younger 39:10 Yeah, yeah, she's like, "I don't need it. I'm just here to like, help you help you. I just want to help you help yourself." She received numerous honors, appropriately so.

Cass Maher 39:21 Thank God.

Natalie Younger 39:23 One of which being the Presidential Medal of Freedom, which she received in 98. So it would have been with Clinton. Yeah, there's a bunch of other people who got that, I think a Rockefeller got it that year. Because Rockefeller is gonna Rockefeller,

Cass Maher 39:40 Lean and Rockefeller.

Natalie Younger 39:42 Lean with it and Rockefeller it

Cass Maher 39:43 He worked so hard accruing his millions.

Natalie Younger 39:46 Yeah, I mean, thanks, as an art kid. Thanks, Rockefellers, for being patrons of the arts. Thank you, Rockefeller, specifically for the hit TV show. 30 Rock. You did it David Rockefeller. Thank you.

Rip Camillucci 40:04 Thank you for your address.

Natalie Younger 40:06 Yeah, thank you.

Rip Camillucci 40:07 Wilma Mankiller completed a master's degree in community planning at the University of Arkansas

Cass Maher 40:13 checks out thanks, Rip.

Natalie Younger 40:14 Yeah,

Cass Maher 40:14 Thanks producer Rip

Natalie Younger 40:15 Rip on the ones and twos and the actual facts

Cass Maher 40:18 beat dropped.

Natalie Younger 40:21 That was a--

Cass Maher 40:21 drink

Natalie Younger 40:27 --that was....that was a beat drop that we were talking about. It's just it's just Rip dropping a fact.

Rip Camillucci 40:34 Oh, yeah, we call facts beats here on Shared History.

Cass Maher 40:38 Hey, you got the beat on that? Yeah, let me drop it real quick.

Natalie Younger 40:42 Yeah, so that's, uh, that's Wilma Mankiller. She is sadly no longer with us. She passed away in 2010 of pancreatic cancer

Cass Maher 40:51 wait, when she was born, she was born in 34? 45

Natalie Younger 40:54 45. Yes.

Cass Maher 40:56 How old is she? What's math?

Natalie Younger 40:57 I'm bad at math. What is that? That's a 6--

Nat & Cass 41:01 That's gotta be 75?

Cass Maher 41:05 Sybil Ludington outlives her

Natalie Younger 41:06 Please hit the comments with better math than we can do.

Cass Maher 41:09 Sybil Ludington outlived her if that's it

Natalie Younger 41:10 Yeah, that's insane

Cass Maher 41:11 But also, she did a 40 mile ride at 16 and had plenty of time to chill after that. Yeah.

Natalie Younger 41:16 Also, did Sybil Ludington have every cancer?

Cass Maher 41:19 Probably not.

Natalie Younger 41:21 And like no clean drinking water?

Cass Maher 41:23 Oh, God

Natalie Younger 41:23 and or Well, I was gonna say or electricity but Sybil Ludington didn't have electricity.

Cass Maher 41:28 But she's good at riding a horse. No Sybil, you are awesome. And we thank you for your service to this country. Also, Wilma was probably just like, "another kidney? Cool. Go ahead. Do what you gotta do. Doctors. I'm working. Yeah. Can I have like a standing desk while you're doing all this?"

Natalie Younger 41:44 Yeah, I have plans. So can we just like Hurry up this second kidney transplant?

Cass Maher 41:51 I just hate hearing these stories. When it's like, oh, she was busting her ass and so overqualified. And doing the work and it doesn't even seem like a footnote. Because I've never heard this in anything.

Natalie Younger 42:06 Yeah. When I like i was -- i hate US history. So I was like, trying to figure out who I was gonna talk about. And I really wanted to do, I really want to do a woman of color. And I was like, Oh, I found so many activists are women of color in this country. It's insane. And also 100% justified and believable. And there should be many more activists that are not people of color because they need to stop doing all the work for us.

Cass Maher 42:38 Like a nap. Let me help. Yeah.

Natalie Younger 42:41 But uh, I started, I read just like a little blurb on her. And I was like, I wonder if there's like, enough here. And then I got into this and I was like,

Cass Maher 42:51 and Wilma was like, "hold my beer."

Natalie Younger 42:53 Yeah.

Cass Maher 42:54 Cuz I'm working. I can't drink right now.

Natalie Younger 42:56 Yeah, I can't drink right now. I have things to do. I have communities to rebuild.

Cass Maher 43:02 Oh, my God.

Natalie Younger 43:03 I have impacts to make. I have--

Cass Maher 43:06 and I have like several illnesses

Natalie Younger 43:07 tribes on Alcatraz to feed. And two beautiful daughters.

Cass Maher 43:12 and two beautiful daughters.

Natalie Younger 43:15 Who are also probably very smart.

Cass Maher 43:16 Yeah. I wonder what they're doing now.

Natalie Younger 43:18 well tune in next time....I do want to read, I have a quote because Obama issued a statement after her passing

Cass Maher 43:27 drop that beat

Natalie Younger 43:28 because she passed away during his presidency. He said, "as the Cherokee nation's first female Chief, she transformed the nation to nation relationship between the Cherokee Nation and the federal government and served as an inspiration to women in Indian country and across America." And he stated "her legacy will continue to encourage and motivate all who carry on her work." I just any opportunity to quote Obama I'm going to take

Yeah, Yes, we can.

Yes. We could.

Cass Maher 43:58 Oh, wompwomp.

Natalie Younger 44:02 On that note,

Cass Maher 44:03 Yes, we will. Yeah.

Natalie Younger 44:08 But yeah, I just, I just really liked that her story was one riddled with disease and great names.

Cass Maher 44:16 Seriously, can we recap some names quick?

Natalie Younger 44:19 Charlie Soap

Cass Maher 44:20 Charlie Soap. Hector Hugo

Natalie Younger 44:23 Mankiller

Cass Maher 44:24 Wilma Pearl

Natalie Younger 44:25 Wilma Pearl Mankiller

Cass Maher 44:26 Irene and what was Dads name?

Natalie Younger 44:28 dad's name was Charlie as well.

Cass Maher 44:30 Oh, yeah. And Donny mankiller and

Natalie Younger 44:33 Hector Hugo Olaya de Bardi and Felicia and Gina. And Donny, Donny and his kidney.

Cass Maher 44:41 Donny and those kidneys.

Natalie Younger 44:42 Donny and those kidneys.

Cass Maher 44:43 Wow.

Natalie Younger 44:44 Yeah, I'd never heard of her.

Cass Maher 44:46 No.

Natalie Younger 44:47 But that's what we're here for.

Cass Maher 44:49 That is why we're here to share history with y'all

Natalie Younger 44:54 dude, I-- reading about this too, also, like I went down so many rabbit holes because like I could do it whole episode just on the Occupation of Alcatraz because it's like, I just think it's really interesting. It should be the plot for the sequel to The Rock. And it's like so interesting and like and also sad. Because I mean, they're not, they aren't there. But still just, now it's just like a tourist destination. But yeah, I'm glad that like you did like a rebel because I almost did one that was more about like colonial days.

Cass Maher 45:33 Yeah.

Natalie Younger 45:34 I'm glad that like, it just so happened that you went colonial and I went within the last century

Cass Maher 45:40 Started with the colonizers and ended with the

Natalie Younger 45:42 Yeah, started with start started with the colonizers and ended with the indigenous people. With the native people.

Cass Maher 45:49 Yeah, you and I aren't huge history buffs or I mean US history buffs.

Natalie Younger 45:54 No.

Cass Maher 45:56 I think part of that is it's so hammered into us in, like grade school and stuff. And it's very much like "look at how great..."

Natalie Younger 46:08 I would love to study US history in a different country. Like I would love to like study. I wish I'd studied abroad.

Cass Maher 46:16 Yeah.

Natalie Younger 46:17 And taken like a US history.

Cass Maher 46:19 Yeah.

Natalie Younger 46:20 I don't know that. I wanted to that. I would care too much to take the US history. Like, in like if I had like, if I was like in London. Likfe if I was in England. I don't think I'm

Cass Maher 46:29 --all right. So our cousins got mad at us. And they threw a hissy fit. And we love our tea and they threw it all away.

Natalie Younger 46:38 Yeah, they threw away all of our tea. It was a really rough time for us.

Cass Maher 46:41 Yeah. No, it'd be awesome to get the outside perspective. I'm sure a lot of the bullet points would be the same, but the tone would be a bit different.

Natalie Younger 46:49 Yes. And I'm sure that like, also, yeah, just other countries of, other nations have been around so much longer.

Cass Maher 46:57 Yeah. Americas real young.

Natalie Younger 47:01 Yeah, we BBs

Cass Maher 47:02 Yeah.

Natalie Younger 47:02 I once student taught in -- when I was in high school, I student taught an eighth grade US...seventh grade? seventh grade US history class. Shout out to Mr. Cheney whose not gonna listen to this but if he did, I would lose my mind. I loved that man's class. I, he, I like student taught with him. And I had to teach. He taught US history. I wanted to student teach history. And he happened to be my cooperating teacher and it was US history. And I was like, ugh. But I had to teach you the Declaration of Independence. And I taught it as a breakup letter. Because when I was in middle school, everyone I broke up with I did it via note. So it seemed like it would resonate with the seventh or eighth graders in the audience to teach breakup letter.

Cass Maher 47:57 Dear Britain, it's not me. It's you.

Natalie Younger 48:02 we slid this into Britain's locker

Cass Maher 48:04 will you let us have own country? Check Yes, No or Maybe. They said no. We changed that

Natalie Younger 48:10 We're gonna do it anyway. Yeah, we, we crossed-- they said no, but they did it in a pencil, so.

Cass Maher 48:16 PS there's a map on the back of this ...bring it back to Nic Cage.

Natalie Younger 48:22 PS here's where we hid all of the treasure.

Cass Maher 48:25 Say what?

Natalie Younger 48:27 Tray-sure

Cass Maher 48:28 Yeah, US History was always really boring to me because we are such a young nation then it's like cool. We're spending like 12 years in school going over a little bit of this where it's like when you do you know European history or-- that's really the only history we get. You literally got thousands a years on that, so it's like a little variety.

Natalie Younger 48:48 I took a class in high school that was a golden age of the Mediterranean and we like started at like Mesopotamia and like went through the Renaissance?

Cass Maher 48:59 which you probably barely got to touch on anything

Natalie Younger 49:01 Yeah, it's just like--

Cass Maher 49:01 because so much happened inbetween that... cool. They made a painting, statues.

Natalie Younger 49:07 Big wooden horse

Cass Maher 49:07 Split from a lot of churches, bunch of schisms

Natalie Younger 49:10 Yeah we're going to spend one week on all of the schisms, we're gonna cover all the schisms in one week. I will lightly touch on some on some papal orgies in that. There will be there will be an episode of this podcast where I'll cover papal orgies. And then great everyone had the plague and now it's modern day.

Cass Maher 49:33 Cool. If you want to learn any more about this take a really hyper specific elective.

Natalie Younger 49:37 Yeah. Or watch Mamma Mia....to learn about the golden age of the mediterranean. The true Golden Age of the Mediterranean.

Cass Maher 49:46 I feel like this podcast is like the Mamma Mia historic, historical, you know, it's like we're going to talk about this but we're just gonna, we're gonna have fun. and maybe sing a little

Natalie Younger 49:54 and no one can see it but we're definitely wearing huge bell bottoms and platform shoes

Cass Maher 49:58 but there also is a strobe light where Rip is behind on the ones and twos.

Natalie Younger 50:01 Yep. And Rip is wearing like a real like plunging neckline with just chest hair. just magnificent chest hair.

Cass Maher 50:09 Yeah, it's...I wish you guys could see this. It's Fabulous. Yeah.

Natalie Younger 50:14 he's doing this for just for us.

Cass Maher 50:16 Yeah. He spent a lot-- he bought all this equipment just for this

Natalie Younger 50:20 Yes. All this AV equipment.

Cass Maher 50:22 Yo, great story

Natalie Younger 50:23 Yeah so that's the story of Wilma Mankiller. That's Yes. Sybil Ludington. I'm surprised I had never heard of because

Cass Maher 50:28 Yeah, because she

Natalie Younger 50:30 because she's a white woman.

Cass Maher 50:31 She's a white woman. She is like, I feel like she is always, not always, but it is a little more well known Female history. I feel like you can hear abou--you have a better chance of hearing about her. But it would always be like, there's this chick named Sybil, she's good at riding a horse.

Natalie Younger 50:48 "She did it first"

Cass Maher 50:53 Wow, we that was a lot of history.

Natalie Younger 50:55 Yeah, I hope everyone learned.

Cass Maher 50:57 Thanks for sharing.

Natalie Younger 50:58 I hate you so much.

Cass Maher 51:00 You said Wilma Mankiller wrote a memoir.

Natalie Younger 51:06 She has an autobiography.

Cass Maher 51:07 I'm gonna be reading that.

Natalie Younger 51:08 Yeah, I didn't write down the title. But shout out to women's history.org and The New York Times and Wikipedia for for being my major sources.

Those are your citations kids working on your papers.

Thus brings us to the conclusion of the first episode of shared history. Thank you for sharing this with us. Rip doesn't have his mic in front of him, but he just let out the heaviest of sighs.

Cass Maher 51:41 So, if you guys want to get a hold of us, our Instagram and Twitter handles are @sharedpod.

Natalie Younger 51:48 Or you can email us any corrections questions or suggestions of stories or events or people you want to cover in a future episode at [email protected].

Cass Maher 52:00 And the password is

Natalie Younger 52:01 Cass no

Cass Maher 52:02 Oh, no. We don't share that? Great. I should note that shared is spelled like

Natalie Younger 52:10 the word not the name? Not Sonny and?

I was gonna say it was Sonny Cher. No, it is spelled s-h-a-r-e-d. Yes, I wanted to do a Cher bit.

Rip Camillucci 52:18 Cher'd history spelled like Sonny and Cher will be the Patreon bonus series where it's just all Cher stories

Natalie Younger 52:26 and that'll always bring us back to

Nat & Cass 52:28 Mama Mia...on that, note.

Natalie Younger 52:33 Thank you and good night.

Cass Maher 52:35 Good night.

Rip Camillucci 52:40 Thank you for playing arcade audio. play more at arcade audio.net

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

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