Saw this new webcomic thing sweeping across my dashboard. The first couple of pages looked interesting so I figured I'd make a little side blog to document my read through as it releases. Idk how long I'll stay on the wagon but while I'm here I'll try to make things a good time.
If you couldn't tell this is the side blog of @sincerelynotserious as I join @homestuckreplay on there adventure through homestuck as if it were 2009 again. Like I said I'm not sure if all do the whole 7 years but I intend to have fun while I'm going.
Whoa we appear to be in a meteor perhaps in the veil?
Oh god cal is here this place is evil
Huh some chess pieces in Big Science Tubes(bst’s) I maybe be reaching but the silhouettes In the Small Science Tubes(sst’s) look like prospitians and dersites?
Hell yeah
Oh whoah homestuck logo
And ar’s previous life revealed?
Oh wow lots of dersite and prospitian focus
WHITES RING HAS BEEN STOLEN
Sovereign slayer hmm seems like Jack has taken charge?
That’s the bunny from the nic cave movie right?????
Like it’s been through some shit but that’s definitely the bunny. The bunny is out of the box
How did it become a Lalond family heirloom?
I smell bullshit time travel
Ah ok yeah it’s the same bunny somehow
OHHHHHHH MORE BULLSHIT TIME TRAVEL SHENANIGANS
GA-TT 1-1 IS ACTUALLY JOHN
2X BS TIMETRAVEL COMBO
Awww a nice daverose moment
And rose is the smartest character in all of homestuck cause she gets rid of the cursed doll asap
We are now the pony
Uhhh did mom kill roses denizen for her?
If I was a smarter gal I’d say something about roses mom continuing to do acts of service in an attempt to perform her love for rose but those same acts instead just mess up roses development, both game wise and character wise.
Also how strong is roses mom that she was able to kill a denizen
Woah 2x parent combo
Uhhh 3x guardian combo?
And we end with a mysterious transportilization to lands unknown
sharing this extremely cool fan theory I just read. I'd never have come to this myself but now I love the idea and would totally be excited to see the story go this way [transcription below screenshot]
RoboCicero posted:
I'm actually fairly curious about what purpose each separate session of the game serves. The trolls 'win' their game somehow (or achieve a kind of stalemate that they interpret as winning), but the HS characters trigger another session with another set of sprites, kings, queens, yadda yadda. It seems that some of these things are unique, but the implication is that the royalty of prospit and derse, as well as (I suppose) the asteroids in the veil are reset each time another session starts.
Basically, I guess my burning question is why sburb has more than one session.
ZorbaTHut replied on Apr 14, 2010 at 02:19:
My theory is that it's part of the balance of loss. Every time, Black wins, but White has just enough power left over to throw the whole thing into another cycle with another world. Maybe that's why Black wins - White is being cautious and isn't willing to risk a complete failure, and Black doesn't have enough strength to prevent it.
This has thrown off that balance enough so that perhaps Black now does have enough strength to completely smash White and end the cycle permanently. But that means Black also finishes off all the old players in the Veil and all the people on Prospit. The Trolls (and other groups that presumably live in the Veil) have grown to acknowledge this as being an endless cycle, and Black as being an unstoppable power, so as far as they're concerned "balance thrown off" means "black truly wins, everyone else dies, cycle ends forever", and understandably they're a bit worried.
This theory's extra-interesting because it implies that in some sense White is the one killing off planets - by refusing to accept their loss, they're nuking inhabited world after inhabited world, and maybe Black is just trying desperately to stop them.
This is all pulled completely out of my ass of course, but I'm going to write it down because I think it's kind of a neat plotline and I'm going to use it for something if Hussie doesn't :>
God damn seeing all this typed out makes it feel like so much
Oh my god cal is real we need to vacate this reality immediately, it’s been compromised
Woahhhhhhh watch out John people will crawl up your ass about this take. Not me I think that’s based but, you know, people.
Oh wow is the the first time the kids have seen what the trolls actually look like?
AND JOHN AND ROSE MEETING? is this the first time the kids have been in the same room as each other?
Oooof “real Dave” kinda tactless John
dream strilonds!
No talking but It seems like Dave has also been drawing sbahj on his walls.
This might be a stretch but we have four characters, John and Dave have been drawing pictures of things that ‘haunt’ them, rose been writing things on her walls, if we extrapolate the pattern maybe jade also has some scrawling? She is the only one who was awake as her dream self so it might not make sense but hey, monkey see three points monkey make pattern.
MIDNIGHT CREW MENTIONED. MIDNIGHT CREW IN MAIN HOMESTUCK
LOVE any time we get to zoom out on the incipisphere! the planets are so pretty. is this the veil??
DERSE REAL! JADE’S PACKAGE REAL! show us what’s inside jack you COWARD
jack looks so shady and brooding in his office
BLUH BLUH HUGE BITCH… another midnight crew mention…
the wing/sword prototyping… the beta kids are gonna have to fight these guys soon. and jade has literally given them inbuilt weapons. not to be like ‘carcinoGeneticist was right’, BUT…
i gotta admire a character who sticks to his guns. jack’s ass is NOT getting dressed. he wants to be naked he will NOT put on the hat not if he has to destroy the entire monarchy instead!!
DREAM ROSE!! the first art of her is so pretty
JASPERS SECRET IS MEOW? THATS WHAT HE SAID TO HER IN THERAPY? yeah baby rose i bet he fuckin did…
SHE’S BEEN DECIPHERING IT LIKE IT’S CODE? THAT’S WHY SHE’S Like This??
GUARDIANS SPOTTED. all guardians are on their kids’ planets! dad has made it to LOWAS looking for john? well. actually he seems like he’s just looking for his hat
sleepy kids <3
BEC SPOTTED?!
jack wants to keep the package that badly? WHAT’S IN THERE!!!!
HEY IS SHE DEAD?? IS THE BLACK QUEEN DEAD??
JACK WHAT THE FUCK! YOU CAN’T DO THAT! THAT’S AGAINST SBURB RULES THAT’S NOT HOW THE GAME GOES!! <3
WINDOWS DESTROYED. Hey what does it mean in fiction when the second and third walls are broken as well as the fourth??
the final Jack shot is also a Midnight Crew callback!! this flash is REALLY playing up the Spades-Jack connection
very little of the kids but a SICK ASS VILLAIN MOMENT. I’m a big fan of Jack and the lawful chaotic tension constantly bubbling inside of him. great to see him can’t wait to see MORE of him
it’s no '[S] Enter.' but it’s a cool flash all the same! I actually think it’s structured pretty similar to '[S] WV: Ascend.' which. makes sense given the title. but I’ll have to watch more to say for sure
I like the vibes I like the music I like zooming over to a different location and character to take center stage! a fun finish to the year and a GREAT setup for the next!
Oh shit yeah I didn’t talk about it in my reaction but the meows totally turned into genetic code with the g’s, c’s, a’s, and t’s
Also if the fourth wall is the wall between audience and actors, maybe the second and third walls are between actors and and behind the stage? So now our actors have access to what’s going on behind the scenes and not just what’s in the play?
yoooo you started E right around the same time as my girlfriend!! that's awesome, congratulations :D
Hell yeah!
Congrats to your girlfriend. Estrogen is probably the best Christmas present I got (technically it was before Christmas but it was December so close enough).
TG: dont talk to john anymore hes an impressionable doofus (p.1657)
Ever since reading Davesprite’s conversation with gallowsCalibrator where he chastises her for getting John killed, I’ve struggled to get it off my mind. There’s a few passing references in early acts, but Act 4 is the first time we’ve seen Dave talk extensively about John, with John not around – and he paints an interesting picture.
GC: SO JOHN 4CTU4LLY D1D WH4T 1 S41D?
TG: yeah
TG: im telling you
TG: huge pushover
TG: he will do what you say
TG: unless it happens to be for his own good
TG: then all a sudden hes a tough nut to crack go figure (p.1657)
In this chatlog, Dave hasn’t spoken to John for four months – before that, they likely spoke every day for years. That’s a big hole in Dave’s life, so of course he’s furious with the person who caused that. It makes sense, as well, that Dave’s opinions of John are overshadowed by that important final interaction, not by their day to day mutual teasing and goofing off.
Here, Davesprite sees John as someone he has to defend, and as someone who’s easily manipulated and not really capable of making his own decisions. Whether or not that’s actually true, it makes sense coming from someone who’s spent four grueling months mastering time travel and personal independence under life or death conditions, and pre-sprite future Dave expresses something similar when talking to Rose.
TG: i go back and tell john not to be an idiot and get trolled like such a gullible stooge (p.1643)
It’d be a fair interpretation to say that Davesprite’s hero complex is about wanting to save the whole timeline, all of his friends and maybe even the future of humanity, and John just happens to be the specific person who needs saving to accomplish that. However, I personally think this is about Dave’s feelings towards John specifically, and I have three different angles I want to briefly discuss this from: Dave’s birthday note, gender, and fan interpretations.
Dave’s Note.
A few pages after GC and Davesprite’s conversation, we see the note Dave included with John’s birthday package – most likely written in early April of 2009, a week or so before the kids play Sburb. Here’s about 2/3 of the note quoted in full.
i would suggest you put it somewhere and display it ironically but i know youre dead serious about this ridiculous shit so youll probably sleep with the damn thing and nibble its ear and stuff
but the weird thing is thats whats cool about you. youre this naive guy like pinocchio tumbled ass backwards off the turnip truck and started liking ghostbusters. then the fairy godmother kissed your nose or some shit and you turned out to be not made of wood and also pretty cool to talk to. one day your gooberish ways are gonna land you in a jam and i know im going to have to get you off the hook but its cool i got your back bro.
then we'll meet and hug bump and get each others filthy wife beaters that much filthier so yeah (p.1662)
Here’s the key points I’m getting from this.
Dave defines John by the differences between them.
The way Dave sees John is almost infantilizing; he definitely thinks John is more innocent than he is and less capable of taking care of himself.
Dave loves John so, so much, and he can’t help but express that, even when it contradicts his usual persona.
Irony versus sincerity is a big theme in John and Dave’s conversations dating back to Act 1, as is their respective opinions on pieces of media – usually things John likes and Dave doesn’t, with GameBro Magazine as a notable exception (p.26). Another theme is Dave’s ‘expertise’, with him often positioning himself as knowing more than John and flaunting his superior knowledge, like with their conversations about John’s sylladex and strife specibus (p.35).
In truth, Dave probably has more life experience than John. Bro certainly isn’t trying to keep him sheltered from anything, and Dave is constantly in dangerous situations and surrounded by adult content. He lives in a city, gets into fights, has partly raised himself, and probably hangs out in some weird corners of the internet. John’s life is hard in different ways – he’s a lot more sheltered, and he’s been allowed to have a longer childhood. Even their shared gifts reflect this. John gives Dave a gift that hides his face, makes him look older, shields him from a tough world, and was worn by an adult in a movie. Dave gives John a gift that’s typically given to a young child (Casey is around seven in Con Air) and represents vulnerability, softness, and a need for comfort.
Even if he doesn’t admit it, Dave might wish he’d had a childhood more like John’s. He wants John to have what he couldn’t, which might be why he tries to hide the weirdest things Bro does (and his own discomfort with them) from John. And he wants to use the combat skills he’s learning from Bro to protect someone, instead of hurt them. The love between them is defining and specific, and I actually do think that Dave would go further to protect John than he would to protect Rose or Jade, even though he cares about them a lot too. It’s difficult to find hard evidence for this – it’s really more of a feeling - but the closest I’ve got is that he sends Jade a signed Sweet Bro and Hella Jeff poster for her birthday, which isn’t even in the same league as the Con Air bunny.
There are definitely examples of Dave being naive and oblivious to the world, like when he’s telling himself he loves puppets and is totally chill with Cal, and there are examples of John being smart and intuitive, like when he starts to realize WV is controlling him and fights back. Those things are true of them as individuals, and are even visible in a fair few of their conversations (see p.287 for a great example) but when Dave talks about John, he leans really hard into their experienced/naive dichotomy. I think it’d be so interesting if, when they meet in person one day, they’re forced to confront these other sides of each other and put into a situation where John gets to be the one to take care of Dave and demonstrate his own capabilities.
--
Gender.
ok so that was all based on the text, now let’s talk headcanons and wild speculation: I think these kids might be transgender.
John, in Act 1 and 2, is characterized by detachment from his life, discomfort in his relationship with his father, and a strict, by the numbers understanding of certain trappings of ‘normal’ life. Dad leaves a piece of paper taped behind his safe, addressing John as ‘son’ and focusing on John’s strength and manliness (p.546). Dad himself is extremely strong, able to lift anything Jack Noir uses to keep him contained and fight the strongest Derse agents, and these are clearly the qualities he prizes in his son too. John also thinks that a ‘proper gentleman’ needs a monocle (p.27) and that a father needs a pipe (p.74), both of which are pretty weird and outdated ideas about masculinity which definitely come from old movies, not from actual deeply held beliefs.
John is also 100% capable of repressing very obvious parts of himself for a very long time, like with the clown graffiti on his walls (p.1001). So, distancing himself from being a man combined with obliviousness towards parts of his own mind makes it possible that John is a trans woman, and hasn’t figured this out yet. Worth mentioning also that John is the only kid to change his Pesterchum handle within the timeline of the story, and John later changing his name would be a very cool resonance.
Dave is more complex, and in a vacuum I think it’s possible to read his gender a few different ways – but it’s most interesting to me if he’s a trans man who came out and socially transitioned when he was a young child. It explains why he spends so much time online (it’s the place he can guarantee being stealth) and why he works SO hard to consciously construct his ironic persona, and works even harder to make it look effortless. Dave has always struck me as this person who’s constantly working twice as hard to keep up with what comes easily and naturally to others, and still not always getting it right. That applies to coolness, which he fails at because wearing sunglasses indoors isn’t actually cool, it applies to fighting, which he fails at when Bro kicks his ass every time even after years of training, and it applies to masculinity, where he’s constantly fighting against hitting puberty and how others perceive him when other boys around him don’t have to deal with any of that. And because he’s working so hard to pass and be accepted, Dave has definitely internalized some gender roles which aren’t that great, and leans way too hard into the ‘asshole teenage boy’ stereotype – like in his first conversation with adiosToreador (p.1099). It’s shitty for sure, but he also doesn’t have someone like John’s dad to be a better example of masculinity.
So I think Dave actively and intentionally buys into masculinity infinitely more than John does, and part of that is leaning into the ‘protector’ role when it comes to his friends. In this read, I don’t think either John or Dave consciously suspect anything about the other’s gender or trans status – but a real-world phenomenon that I and a lot of my friends have experienced is making queer friends while young and feeling a strong connection to them, despite not knowing each other is queer. Consciously, John and Dave think of each other as ‘best bros’ but there’s also an unconscious understanding that they share something deeper. Dave’s protectiveness of John extends to being ready to support and even physically defend John if and when he starts exploring gender, and John’s clear respect for Dave is partly because beneath the irony, Dave is taking the risk of expressing a very authentic part of himself in ways that John is currently not ready to.
As mentioned above, although they tease each other, a lot of their interactions are roughly built on this perceived dichotomy between John’s earnestness and whimsy versus Dave’s irony and impatience. So I think it’s interesting if the difference between them extends to being different genders, and is subverted by John being the one who’s actually putting up a front and Dave being the one who’s actually being himself. And, of course, their close friendship represents a shared trans solidarity.
--
Fan Interpretations.
I really like my interpretations here, but I’m not the only person reading this comic. On April 10, 2010, which of course is today, lots of people feel very differently. A lot of first-year Homestuck fans were also Problem Sleuth fans (or read it after catching up on Homestuck), and Problem Sleuth, plus a good number of other webcomics, don’t invite much complex character analysis. I’ve seen people shocked by the tone shift following ‘[S] Dave: Accelerate’, because they’ve never seen a webcomic kill two of its main characters, send two others to a dark timeline, and take those ideas seriously.
I have no way of knowing what’s discussed on the MSPA forums, but across multiple other forums, most people one-dimensionally see Dave as ‘cool’ and as someone to emulate, and John as ‘stupid’ and as someone to enjoy reading about but to feel superior to. In this way, they’re specifically leaning into Dave’s perceptions of both himself and John. Dave describes John as ‘gooberish’ in his note – a word that has never appeared in Homestuck before, but has definitely come up in forum discussions.
In sitcoms, it’s pretty common for characters to feel like real people in season one, but by season five, their most extreme and comedic traits are exaggerated while their more nuanced and human traits are suppressed. I think a lot of this comes from how viewers respond to these characters, and what becomes their ‘iconic’ moments in early seasons. That’s the case even with a lot of distance between writers and audience – in Homestuck, Hussie engages so much with fans and reads the MSPA forums in real time, so it’s likely that fan interpretations could influence in-comic characterization. This feels especially true now the cast of characters is expanding so much, which makes it harder to keep track of the complexities of each one.
Overall, I really love John and Dave’s existing dynamic, and how all the beta kids have been characterized so far. In all cases, there’s great groundwork for future character arcs. It’d be a real shame to see any of them become caricatures of themselves. And while I don’t think this is happening in a serious way yet, there are slight shifts in how they’ve been written over time. That could be their changing responses to situations in universe, or could be Hussie’s changing understandings of the characters, and either way I think it’s something to pay attention to. So despite the risk of ending this post on a negative note, I’m going to finish by putting these two interactions side by side.
EB: i do things ironically sometimes.
EB: what about what i sent you for your birthday?
TG: no those are awesome
EB: what? no, they're stupid, which was the joke. the IRONIC joke. get it?
EB: wait...
EB: you're actually wearing them, aren't you?
TG: im wearing them ironically
TG: because theyre awesome
TG: the fact that theyre ironic makes them awesome
TG: and vice versa (p.110)
EB: yeah, of course!
EB: there was no way i wasn't trying out this sweet ride.
TG: god dammit what do i have to do to make you believe me
TG: fist bump my future self til i got bloody knuckles and write you an even sappier bday note in my own blood
TG: on a back to the future poster
EB: relax, i'm not going through the gate!
EB: i am just flying around, and having a good time in the sky. (p.1667)
Have you any thoughts on the fact that Mom Lalonde & Grandad Harley are wearing what is, essentially, the same outfit with different styling?
so I didn't notice this at all, but I think you chose a great moment to send this ask, given a specific comment CG made in his most recent Pesterlog.
here's our first full, clear view of Mom and Grandpa - like Dad, Bro and Bec their first big appearances are strifing with their kids. and you're right, they're both wearing white coats that button at the side, black belts with white buckles over the top, and black shiny shoes.
taken separately, I think Mom's outfit is a fitted/cinched lab coat and heels - we know she works in a lab, and likes to at least keep the appearance of being a feminine housewife/mother, so this outfit is perfect for her. Grandpa's outfit looks like a tuxedo on top with waterproof rain pants and boots below - he's both a philanthropist/billionaire and explorer/hunter, so this outfit is perfect for him!
however.
CG: THIS GAME IS KIND OF A GAME OF A MILLION GUIDES.
CG: EVERYWHERE YOU TURN THERE'S ANOTHER WAY TO FIGURE OUT WHAT'S GOING ON, SO PLEASE, GO SECRETE ME AN EARTH RIVER THROUGH YOUR STRANGE HUMAN TEAR DUCTS.
CG: YOU'VE GOT SPRITES, EXILES, GUARDIANS, CONSORTS…
CG: TIME HOPPING FUTURE SELVES, MYSTICAL DREAM ORACLE DOPPELGANGERS… (p.1667)
one of these things is NOT like the others. everything CG lists is programmed or allowed for by Sburb, and exists within the Incipisphere. but having a guardian or two is pretty common, and these guardians exist on Earth. which makes me think that these guardians have some sort of pre-existing connection to Skaia, and therefore to each other. Grandpa Harley set up his home next to Skaia's mystic ruins, and Mom works in the Skaianet Laboratories, and their kids make it to the Medium when nobody else does? not a coincidence, and I would guess that at some point, Mom went to visit Grandpa's island (probably before Jade and Rose were born) and possibly even trained under him as a student, which is how she was able to set up the lab and know how to work with Skaian technology.
so, the similarities in their outfits could reflect that shared past, like a 'uniform' for agents of Skaia acting on Earth, which is then customized to each of their personalities and roles. but are they regular Earth humans who happened to make a connection with Skaia, or were they originally programmed by Skaia and then sent to Earth, exile-style? a few months ago I'd have said the first option, but now I'm not so sure.
The mom and grandpa relationship plots two points of a line making me wonder if bro and John’s dad have a connection of some sort? This would make a dichotomy of “scientists” and “pranksters” but I have no idea what a relationship between bro and dad would look like
[CG, lying] 'I’M NOT FALLING FOR ANY MORE OF YOUR HUMAN PRANKS.'
(page 1658-1667)
^ gonna play favorites among daves and I’m not even sorry.
Davesprite and Dave have an actual conversation! Davesprite discusses the role of a sprite, how he’s supposed to give Dave information in riddles, and then says ‘ask me anything go ahead ill give you a straight answer’ (p.1658). He doesn’t really give straight answers to either of Dave’s questions; he does give information, but selectively. In the same way that it’s hard to tell where prankster Nanna ends and harlequin doll prototyping begins, it’s hard to say where Dave’s generally roundabout talking style ends and cryptic sprite behavior begins. I’m curious what would happen if Davesprite tried to fight against his own programming and directly reveal something to Dave that he isn’t supposed to, later or ever.
Anyway, I’d say Davesprite deserves a break, but he makes it clear he’s still been drawing Sweet Bro and Hella Jeff comics while exploring his land for months, probably just for Rose as there’s nobody else around to read them. At least this time around he’ll have a couple more readers, maybe a dozen more if he can get the trolls invested in the Nancho Party only to cancel the arc. It’s kinda fun to think of the two Daves collaborating on comic ideas, but it’s also a little heartbreaking to realize that Dave’s only in person friend is himself (and in Davesprite’s case, a version of himself that’ll never fully understand his experiences).
Then, we cut to a recap of John opening his gift from Dave, first seen way back in Act 1 before John even started playing Sburb. Inside the box is a certificate of authenticity and a note from Dave (p.132, 1661). The images are identical, with both showing two pieces of paper on the bed, and there’s no suggestion that Dave can or did travel back in time to pre-Sburb – so my understanding is that in-universe, Dave sent this note originally, it’s just that in this revised/fixed timeline, he and John both remembered it at a critical moment. From Hussie’s perspective, the note likely wasn’t planned until now, or at least not intended as plot critical. I think this is why a story that jumps around in time works so well with the serial update format; it lets an author edit things into the early story while making internal sense, while in a fully linear story this would be much harder.
The note itself is very good, but I have some other thoughts about how Dave sees John, so I’ll post about that separately in the next couple days. The important thing for now is that John almost makes it to the gate, remembers the note, and then reconsiders. Given upcoming conversations I really like how John’s trail of fire makes him look like a tiny meteor as he rocketblasts through the sky.
I’m gonna need Jade to wake up and take some screenshots real quick because it’s ridiculous that John still doesn’t believe Dave about his future self. John actually comes off as sillier and more oblivious than usual in this conversation (p.1666), but he’s going through what CG is about to call ‘STRIKING POCKETS OF FOOLISHNESS’ (p.1667) and is probably a little embarrassed about trusting GC over Dave, even temporarily. I would just call them moments of being a person, who isn’t always perfectly rational. His failure to notice Dave’s sarcasm in ‘talking to those dbags should be priority number one’ is also really relatable.
John’s pesterlog with carcinoGeneticist is really the bulk of this update – it’s the longest chatlog in the comic so far at 1498 words, and second longest page overall, with ‘YOU THERE. BOY.’ (p.253) still the longest with 1579. I did some preliminary stats on Act 4 for curiosity’s sake, and it’s been REALLY light on narrative text, with fewer words than Act 1 despite already having more pages. But, Act 4 has far more Pesterlogs than any other act, and they’re longer on average, with troll Pesterlogs being the longest of all. So this has really become the primary way of conveying information in the narrative.
As CG points out, this is a ‘GAME OF A MILLION GUIDES’ (p.1667), although what he doesn’t mention is that the in-game guides are often unhelpful, and are likely biased or unreliable, as they won’t say anything that undermines the purpose of Sburb. The trolls have their own agenda for sure, but they don’t have that restriction, so this is a good contrast to the earlier Davesprite conversation.
This chatlog has a bunch of lore, characterization, and just some really fun lines. John is coming into his own with the pranks! By trolling him backwards, present CG keeps accidentally giving John great material for pranking past CG, and John is taking it and running. He assures CG that friendship is an emotion, despite knowing full well he told future CG that ‘friendship isn't an emotion fucknuts’ (p.1394), and gets the idea to invent other weird facts about human biology. And then he calls himself and CG ‘reverse anti-mutual friends’ (p.1667) which is one of my favorite phrases in the comic so far.
CG says ‘I GUESS IT'S HARD TO SEE HOW WE BECOME FRIENDS’, but from an external position it’s pretty simple. As John goes further into the future, he gets confident in his abilities to respond to trolling, pranking CG and meeting him as an equal. And as CG goes back along John’s timeline, he sees John’s witty responses and playful antagonism, which are things he respects a lot more than John’s actions in the game. It’s really kind of beautiful.
CG: AND EVEN THEN YOU DIDN'T EVEN MIND [MY TROLLING] MUCH, ALMOST LIKE YOU WERE DELIGHTED TO HEAR IT.
CG: KIND OF PERVERSE REALLY, WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU? (p.1667)
Shouting this out as another favorite line that really captures their reverse anti-mutual friends dynamic. ‘SCHOOLHIVE RUMPUS RESPITE’ is similarly great and if I still had recess I would start calling it this. And CG’s description of John ‘RIDING [HIS] LITTLE RED ROCKET’ makes me imagine John as Little Red Riding Hood, which is silly, because John is clearly more of a Rapunzel or perhaps even a Thumbelina.
The general Sburb lore revealed here is some confirmation of the Incipisphere geography, including the existence of the Veil full of meteors and laboratories (where John will soon visit, somehow!), information on how the chess game typically ends, where Derse sends thousands of meteors towards Skaia in an event called ‘The Reckoning’, and the fact that Sburb constructs aren’t computer programmed but have genetic code. I’m even more concerned about killing imps if they are essentially lab-grown animals, so I’m really intrigued by these meteor facilities and what John could learn from exploring them.
The lore specific to the kids’ Sburb session is even better. While usually, the Reckoning would happen in the lategame, the kids have fucked up and caused a much earlier Reckoning. John’s in the dark on how, but surely this is because of PM’s actions. By seriously accepting Jack’s regisword and hitlist, she caused the White Queen to abdicate, meaning Black wins and takes control of the Veil sooner. PM only did this because she was chasing Jade’s package to John, so this must be why the trolls focused their efforts on Jade, trolling her ‘for years’ (p.1000) back in her timeline, but only trolling the other kids closer to their session. Jade has also been working on John’s birthday present ‘for years’ (p.442) so I’d bet these things line up, and the trolls tried to stop her from ever making and sending the gift.
Jade’s been working on this gift with her pen-pal (p.1527), a reference which felt like it came from nowhere at the time, but must be someone important if this package was so critical. Not one of the trolls, but an antagonist to them – possibly someone from their planet who didn’t play in their session, but otherwise caused problems for them? Or possibly even someone inside Sburb, like the White King contributing to his own downfall? Or Grandpa Harley, who we know is alive in the Incipisphere while John is playing (p.1471), helping her from the inside and better explaining why Jade talks like he’s alive?
So, a lot makes more sense, but one big question is still up in the air. John asks ‘what's the point of the game’ (p.1667) and CG blows him off, saying they’ve already discussed this. I obviously want the answer to this, but I’m not sure I want it in a Pesterlog – how it’ll be revealed is just as exciting to me as the reveal itself.
John is really cute when he’s asking CG about his location. He’s like, I wanna know where you are and what you look like, also what posters do you have in your bedroom and what are you wearing and do you have big beautiful eyes. Am I misinterpreting this???? For what it’s worth, we’re still early on in exploring these dynamics, but if I had to give my current shipping opinions? I really like John/CG, Rose/GA, and Dave/Jade, although I think Dave should also try kissing boys and see how that goes.
Land of Heat, Clockwork and the Worst Puppet Imaginable
(page 1641-1644; ‘[S] Dave: Accelerate.’)
GC: 4R3 YOU R34DY TO FUCK UP TH3 T1M3L1N3??? (p.1580)
Well, mission accomplished, gallowsCalibrator. I think we can consider this timeline officially Fucked Up.
This update, where we skip forward to Dave’s fifth gate without seeing any of his in between steps, was intentionally released on April Fools’, but it’s not a joke update or something that’ll get retconned out of universe. I think it’s an effective way to introduce Dave’s land, grist types and enemies (Amber Imp, Rust Imp, Sulfur Ogre, Ruby Giclops) all at once, which are all questions people want answers to, but not exciting enough to be Big Reveals. But more than that, I LOVE the implication that Dave, Knight of Time, can not only time travel but can accelerate and rewind the narrative itself, displacing himself from a chronological story structure. Can he be trusted with this power? Probably not.
The Land of Heat and Clockwork is SICK AS HELL. I mean obviously, because all the kids’ lands have incredible designs. It’s interesting to me that while Rose’s land is visually the opposite of the aesthetics and interests she’s expressed, Dave’s matches his aesthetic, with a red palette like his shirt and a lot of gears and technology that feel like a more steampunk version of the wires and gadgets he has scattered around his room. It also perfectly matches the gear-shaped planet with a red center from WV’s drawings (p.703), leaving the volcano planet for Jade.
‘Clockwork’ in Dave’s land is to ‘time’, his domain, just as ‘wind’ is to ‘breath’ for John. It also looks like there’s a tiny record in his sword and a set of turntables he’s using to time travel, keeping time by keeping the beat. @sincerelywasserious noted that the track in this animation, ‘Atomyk Ebonpyre’ by Toby Fox, is in 6/8 time – slightly more complex than a standard 4/4. To me, this indicates that Dave is getting more proficient with his time powers and able to master a more complex beat. I'd love to see the time signatures for his tracks get even weirder when he eventually levels up further.
It makes sense for Dave’s quest to relate to his instrument, just as Rose’s involves playing the violin strings of the waterfalls (p.1626) and John’s denizen’s palace looks like an organ (p.1605 - @tenaciouschronicler originally made this link!) Their quests also link to what I’ve been calling their title cards; John’s on page 82 and Rose’s on page 307, which are the first pages for each character that delve into their mental state and hint at elemental associations. As a sidenote, Jade never got one of these pages, meaning we have NO hints to her planet or quest besides her eclectic bass’ abilities to manipulate plant life, and the likelihood that her element is earth.
‘You don't even know what's up with this sick heat. The sun threatens to set but won't step off. It's staring you down, like the big red eye of a hot needle skipping on a groove its tracing 'round the earth. While lingering in midair its heat seems to suspend time itself, stretching it like warped vinyl.’ (p.444)
Here’s Dave’s title card. My guess is that Dave’s denizen has somehow suspended his planet in time, its inhabitants no longer aging, its weather and seasons unchanging, its gears no longer turning, stuck in eternal 110 degree midday heat. (hell!!) It’ll be his job to both cool the planet down and get its timeline back on track in a way that doesn’t mess with the overall timeline of the kids’ Sburb game. I can’t help but wonder if some creatures like the Felt might be his planet’s inhabitants, or perhaps even Lord English his denizen – these guys surely have some link to Sburb, and definitely have links to time, so perhaps they always appear for the player with the Time domain.
So far, there have been six [S] pages that are also commands addressed to Dave. One is his title card (p.444), one is him preparing for a fight (p.665), and the final four are Dave directly in combat (p.836, 871, 1070, 1641). Dave’s big moments are overwhelmingly focused on violence, which isn’t true of the other kids, but does reflect the toxically masculine, constantly on edge and ready for attack way that he’s been raised. My hope is that Dave’s quest will be something he can’t solve through violence – and that Rose’s quest is something she has to be open and vulnerable to solve, and that John’s quest is one he has to be decisive and independent to solve.
Dave’s also got a cool new look – a suit and computer glasses to match John’s. Maybe a tribute to his best friend, but there’s also something here about how putting on a suit (or maybe changing outfits in general?) indicates a transitional moment for these characters, or a deeper understanding of themselves.
Calsprite is BAD. He is so much worse than regular Cal who was already extremely bad. His beam of puppets and his turning into a smuppet with his ‘bulbous bottom being like kind of jutting out and impudent’ (p.522)? REALLY BAD. Dave is right, this is true evidence of the darkest timeline. And I’m certain he could talk if he wanted to, but Dave has prototyped with a malicious entity that has no interest in helping him, so he’s just an asshole. Dave might not even know his quest if Cal won’t tell him. And Dave has suffered this for FOUR MONTHS!! I am guessing he can only rewind time within the Incipisphere otherwise he could travel back to when Bro first got Cal and unmake that entire doll.
The Dave and Rose pesterlog (p.1643) is pretty rough to read. They still feel like themselves, but there’s no jokes or affectionate ribbing between friends. They’re just tired, sad and only talking strategy. And both of their perspectives make total sense. Dave is a lonely and neglected extrovert who loves his friends more than life itself. He’s had to cope with two of them dying, and he has time travel powers that make him capable of going back and seeing them again and changing things for the better, so of course he wants to do that. Rose has always been interested in understanding Sburb so she wants to give the kids the best chance of survival when they do rewind time, and as she wouldn’t personally be the one going back, she’s scared about what will happen to her when she’s left alone in this timeline. Even though she’s having a bad time, she wants to hold onto the one friend she has left, and the last pieces of certainty.
My heart honestly breaks for both of them. I can’t imagine the pain they’ve been through over the last four months. Even after their planet was destroyed and it seemed like they had nothing left to lose, they lost even more, and they still had to keep going, keep working, keep fighting. All they’ve had for company is each other, a cat, and a horrible puppet. And for this version of Rose, it might all be for nothing, as she might stop existing when Dave rewinds.
Dave theorizes that ‘dream selves kind of operate outside the normal time continuum’ (p.1643) which is a theory, but probably a much more informed one than any of the ‘main timeline’ kids have. This pesterlog suggests that in this future timeline, Dave woke up on Derse by realizing he was ‘already awake’, and went to help Rose wake up as she’d been struggling for a while. Since then, they’ve been exploring Derse together in person. This is a clear message to us as readers: if, in the ‘main timeline’, Rose is able to wake up quickly and go help Dave, this means her ‘alternate timeline’ self was able to persist via her dream self. If she still struggles and Dave wakes first, that version of her is trapped or has ceased to exist, like she fears.
Finally, there’s a newspost from Hussie which is pretty exhausting to read due to its many layers of Dave-style irony. The main takeaway is that Homestuck will not end on 4/13, but there will likely be a big Flash animation on that date, possibly with additional Flash pages between now and then.
It’s gonna be Cal’s face and hat with wings, a beak and a sword and I’m gonna quit reading Homestuck because we’ll have to hear him talk.
It probably won’t be too bad? He’ll just be a bit silly like nana sprite prob-
Well we had a good run guys. Dave is so real for that
Shit took 4 goddamn months
Woah time skip
With all this time hopping
Called it
Wow alright so first off trolls 1 - humans 0 I gotta say. Dooming a whole timeline is a pretty big prank. Dave’s floating turn tables do indeed allow him to travel in time and he and rose have been leveling up for four months.
This feels like a big turn in tone for homestuck and I’m kinda loving it. We’ve had our big hype moments like [s] enter but it’s all been mostly fun and games. Now even if it will supposedly get undone we’ve hit #majorcharacterdeath and that really feels like it kicks the stakes up. Sburb can kill you. even tho what John did was not the intended path of the game, if you mess up you can pay for it dearly.
