Apparently this old account will now be the site for all my Hazbin Hotel thoughts lol. I make shitposts, point out funny things in the show, and occasionally write stupid long metas at 4am in the morning. Maybe if I ever finish something I’ll post some art or fics too, who knows?
Reblog this if you support sex-averse and sex-repulsed aces, including:
Aces who never want to have sex
Aces who had sex in the past but don't desire it anymore
Aces with sexual trauma who feel like their trauma ties into their asexuality
Aces with sexual trauma who don't feel like their trauma caused their asexuality
Aces who don't want to talk to you about sex
Aces who don't want to hear about sex
Yes even aces who do not want to engage with any sexual content and don't want it in their own personal spaces
Yes even aces who express the desire to have more spaces for queer adults where their boundaries are met (on top of the queer spaces that exist, we do not want to sanitize your existing spaces ffs)
If you cannot be normal about these people existing, if you believe they're a threat to our community and to how we're viewed by people who aren't aspec and the rest of the LGBTQ+ community, you are not an asexual ally. Yes, even if you're aspec yourself. Especially if you're aspec yourself.
Because it's been pride month for 4 days and I'm already seeing people trying to throw us under the bus or pretend we don't exist because that makes the ace community more palatable to exclusionists and people who swallowed too much "aces are puritans" propaganda.
Was listening back through the Hazbin Hotel songs again and I noticed a really cool detail in how each of the characters sing. As some of you might’ve noticed, during Hell’s Greatest Dad Lucifer is very audibly taking in many deep breaths before each lyric, while in contrast you can’t hear Alastor breathing at all. And I wondered if this was a trend with Alastor’s character (intentional) or if it was just due to different singing styles (unintentional). And I have come to the conclusion that the lack of audible breathing on Alastor’s part is very intentional.
Of all the songs and characters that sing, the majority of them do have audible breathing, which is particularly loud when they’re visibly out of breath, panicked, emotional, excited, etc. the big exceptions are Husk, Alastor, Carmilla, and Angel Dust.
With Husk we never hear him audibly breathing. This might be due to the nature of the songs he features in, where Loser Baby’s slower duet gives more room to breath silently than a fast paced one like Hell is Forever. But I think it’s a good hint of Husk’s control over his breathing/singing. He’s a gambler, he likely has one hell of a poker face and knows how to present himself as calm and in control regardless of what he’s feeling, and that’s showcased in how he sings.
It’s the same situation with Alastor. Regardless of how he was feeling during Stayed Gone or Hell’s Greatest Dad, we never hear him breathing. He’s presenting himself as calm and in control of the situation, even as the song devolves into a yelling match in Hell’s Greatest Dad. He keeps up his no audible breathing during his part in Ready for This, though it’s a little hard to tell if Rosie’s breathing is covering up any audible breathing he’s doing. The only time we hear Alastor audibly breathe is during his solo in Finale/The Show Must Go On. Where every single line is followed by a deep and harsh breath. It’s also the only time we see him drop his mask and visibly have a mental breakdown. I’m what little he sings with the group, you can’t hear him breathing anymore, but that might just be because he gets like, one line before the finale of the song.
Carmilla is an interesting one. During Respectless, you can’t hear her breath at all, but you can hear Velvette taking multiple audible breaths. If we equate no breathing to controlling themselves in the situation, then we can interpret that as Carmilla trying to keep her cool about Velvette showing off the angel head she brought to the meeting, and not let anything slip. In Whatever it Takes, Carmilla starts the song by taking many audible breaths before each line, implying she’s letting her guard and control down for Zestial. Out for Love has her breathing silently again. I’m not too sure what it could mean character wise aside from her being calm and in control of the training session.
Angel Dust is also super interesting. During the start of his solo song Poison, you can’t hear any audible breathing from him. And it makes sense, coupled with the visuals onscreen, Angel Dust is trying to make himself feel like he’s in control of his situation and what’s happening to him. It’s not until the very end of the song, where his voice starts breaking that we hear him audibly breathe, because he’s not in control of his situation and he couldn’t keep pretending that he was.
Tl;dr: within the songs of Hazbin Hotel, how a character breathes between lyrics, silently or loudly, is being used to further build their character and give the audience a sense of their emotional state. Also, the breathing makes it feel more like the characters are actually singing and it’s not just a cool polished sound track for the show.
Just a random thought about how Alastor and Vox must’ve been really good friends before everything fell apart. Because Alastor knows how to make a video ad, he knows how to set things up for a movie/video shoot, things that had nothing to do with his medium, that he probably learned how to do because of Vox, because he was willing to try and learn from or for Vox. And Vox literally welcomes Alastor back home when he finds out he’s returned, has literally counted the years Alastor’s been missing when no one else seemed to know, and fashioned his clothing style to match Alastor’s (assuming it’s not just a case of everyone gets a pinstripe suit!), uses the same techniques Alastor taught Charlie about how smiling can be a tool to keep you ahead of the game.
And how it all fell apart and it wasn’t just Vox that was hurt in the process. Because you can’t tell me the man who hates TVs and modern tech due to its association with Vox doesn’t feel anything for what friendship they had and lost. Who snarls at the mere sight of him on a screen (admittedly while also dissing Alastor), who went straight back to his radio tower to diss Vox right back (and absolutely crush him lol), before threatening him against taking action, privately, twice. Alastor’s just better at hiding how much it’s affected him, and doesn’t let the bitterness of what used to be consume his every waking thought.
And maybe that’s the difference between how they view their old relationship and how the fandom seems to view it. Alastor’s upset about it, sure. He’s bitter now about Vox and everything Vox represents because he’s a past friendship that failed, but he’s also moved on with his life. Vox hasn’t. Vox still obsesses over Alastor, in the way he dresses, the way he talks, how he presents himself. It’s all reminiscent of Alastor. And when he finds out Alastor’s returned, the first thing he does is draw attention to how Alastor’s back! Talk in a roundabout way about how much he’s missed him! Has wondered where he’s been? Sends a spy into the hotel to, well, spy on Alastor! And when that doesn’t work, Vox continues to stalk Alastor through his drones instead. (And then gets off on seeing Alastor get beat up.)
Vox very much has not moved on from whatever friendship they’d had before. He hasn’t moved on from Alastor. (Or from his heavily implied obsessive crush).
We don’t know what happened between them, aside that it’s complicated and sad, that they were friends, and now they’re very much not, and that maybe part of the reason why is because Alastor rejected Vox’s request to join his team (upend his entire life to partner with Vox, assuming Alastor always worked solo and what the Vees currently have is what Vox had wanted with Alastor with his request). We can assume maybe part of why they fell apart was because Vox wanted something more from his relationship with Alastor, something Alastor could not and did not want to give him. Or maybe they just grew apart, grew distant. Vox constantly upgrading and changing and keeping up with the newest trends, chasing whatever new Thing that’ll keep him relevant, while Alastor remained set in his ways because he’s not looking for the approval of the masses.
Anyways, all this to say: when I, and I assume most other OneWayBroadcast fans talk about one-sided radiostatic, it is specifically about how Vox has a one-sided romantic/sexual attraction/crush on Alastor, that Alastor does not return, that has now turned into a one-sided obsession over Alastor. Not that their entire friendship was completely one-sided. I think saying that Vox was the only one who was ever invested in their relationship is a rather bad faith interpretation of Alastor’s character, but also does not do their relationship justice at all. It minimizes Vox’s responsibility in the fallout of their friendship, and puts the blame only on Alastor. It takes away all the juicy complexities of Vox’s character, how he’s bad person who’s done and is doing bad things, and paints him as an innocent victim to “Alastor’s manipulation”.
That’s not to say Alastor was completely innocent in the fallout either. But I hear a lot more about how the fandom woobifies Vox in their relationship than I do Alastor.
Cover art for @cannibalisticapple's new fic: Mother's Love Knows No Bounds!
Everyone who knows Alastor knows how much he loves his mother. He drops casual references to her in conversation all the time, shares her cooking through making her recipes for others and dedicates songs to her often. Anyone who talks to him for an extended period of time will be treated to some quaint anecdote about her as he gets a distant, wistful glint in his eye.
Most people are under the impression that Alastor's mother is in Heaven.
He has little desire to clear up that misconception.
A trembling thought hit me like a freight train, what if the reason the crew went back on saying Al in aro is because he and Vox actually did date?
And then Vox wanted more and they broke up?
Like, I just have a nagging fear that that might come up in season 2 and I really don't know how to feel about it
Like on one hand it should make it easy to clarify that, yes, Alastor really is aro for he gave it a try and found it really wasn't for him
But on the other, what if the crew (or whoever is in charge) is all, "Well he dated once so he can't be aro, therefore he is only ace"
I've seen these kind of conspiracy theories before where people think there's some planned surprise romance plot for alastor and that's why they don't want to confirm him as aro and well.
I disagree.
for in-text, meta, and my own reasons. lemme go through it one by one.
in-text reasons
if we ignore ANY sort of word of god, statements from staff and whatnot, the only thing we have is the rosie dialogue. I've talked about it before, although she only says "ace in the hole", the context in which this is said is the idea of alastor dating charlie, this is a romantic context, and rosie says she's joking because she knows he wouldn't do it because he's an (aro)ace in the hole. the joke here is that alastor brought a girl with him and she's jokingly assuming they're dating (unless we're really thinking she jumped to joking about them fucking). so she KNOWS he wouldn't date and that's the thing, the only way I could see vox and alastor having previously dated and still have rosie say this is if them dating and alastor realising he's uninterested is specifically what got rosie to realise alastor wouldn't do that. otherwise no, it wouldn't make sense to me that alastor would've dated when rosie said this.
meta reasons
old faustisse streams. I'm not a pre-series fan but I've done my research. sure, there's info they've said before that's been deconfirmed but that's because some info from them are stuff they only say they "think" and not stuff that they 100% confirmed with vivzie, just opinions based on what they know about the characters. alastor's aroaceness is different though, faustisse was VERY forward that alastor is AROace and they SPECIFIED vivzie did not want to canonise it because of shipping wars and all that, so I'm fairly sure it's not because of some surprise alastor romance plot. faustisse may not be a 100% reliable source since this is from years ago now but I will say alastor being aroace is about as canon as husk being pansexual. both of this info is from faustisse. arguably alastor being aroace is even more canon than husk being pan because of the rosie dialogue. you can read the transcript of one of the old streams here. don't take this as a necessary reflection of my take on alastor shipping, no, I don't like reciprocated romantic alastor ships. at all. but I also definitely don't think harassment is okay. shippers will exist, and nothing you say will stop them so it's best not to waste your energy shouting at them.
my opinion
first let me say, I DEFINITELY don't like vivzie's choice to not confirm it. I understand yes people can be very aggressive in shipping wars, I understand harassment happens. but. IT IS HAPPENING REGARDLESS. ALL OF THIS IS HAPPENING REGARDLESS. it's just made WORSE by no solid statement on him being aromantic because then there's people who will argue it's not canon. confirming alastor as aromantic will not stop the shippers from shipping or having fun, this is like saying confirming angel dust as gay prevents angel dust x women shippers from having fun. they will exist regardless. confirming alastor as aromantic WILL NOT CHANGE THIS, all it will do is ASSURE aromantic people that they are being represented. all it will do is stop people from saying "alastor is ace not aro!" and acting like alastor being aro is an obstacle to their shipping.
that aside, I'll talk about my opinion on the idea of alastor having dated vox in canon. now, okay, I don't mind the idea if it's done in a very clearly aromantic way and it was just something alastor tried out but didn't like. I would even like it if it was done properly! but I also don't trust vivzie to write an aromantic character in a romantic relationship, so I'd rather it not happen in canon. and I do think vivzie is more likely to not take the risk of trying to write an aro character in a relationship anyways (and if she did I would definitely hope she does lots of research).
also it doesn't really make sense to me why he would try dating with vox instead of like. a woman. like rosie or mimzy. and I don't mean this cause of heteronormative reasons I mean this because alastor is clearly more comfortable with women, it just makes more sense to me that if he were to try out dating it would be with a woman. like... why vox? the only reason I could see it happening is vox is the only friend who tried to confess to alastor and so he decided to try it out cause he was a friend but then didn't like it. that isn't to say I wouldn't enjoy reading about this in fanfics or anything cause I probably would LMAO it's an interesting concept, but doesn't really make much sense to me and I'm not sure if I trust the allo writers to do it in canon.
I think you’re very correct and I’ve also been thinking about how we just do not say this about confirming gay characters? And it’s also definitely more canon than Husk being bi+/pan because Husk’s sexuality never comes up in the show.
I can also see Alastor trying out Vox in a “maybe I’m gay and very repressed? NOPE. NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE” move
I've been living free ever since I realised alastor being aroace is more canon than husk being pan, now every "alastor is ace not aro!" person should be hit with "if alastor is not aro then husk is not pan" because solid confirmation for both comes from the same fucking source baby
also while I'm at it
tags via @fanby-fckry
I WANTED TO MENTION THIS TOO ACTUALLY I FORGOT yes. if there was a chance it was done well and alastor was written as an aroace who had dated, media literacy is IN THE DIRT. and personally I would not be ready for all the hair-pulling takes that would come out of this fandom because of it so it would be IDEAL if it didn't happen in canon imo.
I think Rosie is a key factor to understanding Alastor's outlook on friendships.
The show all but spells out that Alastor sees attachments as a weakness, from the "Great Alastor, altruist, died from his friends" line to the hints about his failed friendship with Vox and to the way the narrative immediately punishes him when he admits to Niffty that "One could get accustomed". However something sets Rosie aside from all of this. With her, Alastor is open about scheming, he allows her to touch him and even seems to bleat like a fawn when she grabs him. Their friendship seems oddly healthy for a guy who seems to think that letting people even peek through the twenty meter wall he's built around himself is a fate worse than death. So what makes Rosie different? I think what sets her aside from other attachments that Alastor might view as dangerous (such as Vox, maybe?) is that no matter how close they might be, she still has her own world and he has his. There's a safety in knowing your life won't have to change and that you're free to take any risk, ruin any bond because you're not directly putting this person in danger. Rosie is Alastor's friend, not his responsibility. That's why she's not as affected by Alastor's disappearance and welcomes him back as if he had been gone for a week. Their lives are completely separated, but they choose to meet at the borders.
I think that someone like Vox doesn't do that. Vox lives with Velvette and Valentino, they share everything, success, plans, even a living space. Heck, Velvette can go to the Overlord meeting representing the other two because that trio can speak as one. When Vox asked Alastor to "join his team", he was basically asking Alastor to remodel his life to make space for him as well. If one of the Vees fucks up, all of them fuck up ("Our model is perfection"). Alastor has his own plans, his own messes and cannot by any means be tied down to someone else. Even if he did care for Vox, in order to really be on a team with him or anyone else, he would have to drop his creepy persona which keeps him safe, he couldn't just kill people and betray others however he wished, let alone make sketchy deals with much more powerful entities. His actions would impact the ones he kept close. Vox and Alastor couldn't join forces because they have fundamentally different goals and outlooks on attachment. Vox wants codependency, Alastor has conjured up indestructible walls just to survive.
So, tl;dr: Rosie and Alastor work as friends because they seemingly agree to keep their lives separate. Vox wanted to carve a niche for himself in Alastor's life just like he had done for him, but that's just not what Alastor wants nor is able to give.
Unpopular opinion maybe but I think it's really healthy on Alastor's behalf, and how relationships (of any kind) should work.
There's this misconception about relationships that people have to be codependent. To be for the other and by the other.
Whereas in reality, we are our own persons first and we relate to others as independent individuals who choose to share a part of ourselves but we stay as ourselves.
That's why I think Rosie and Alastor's friendship is actually very healthy. Rosie knows of Alastor's deranged and manipulative ways and doesn't pretend to change him. Alastor is honest with Rosie and doesn't try to manipulate her. He goes to her with the truth.
In order for Alastor to join the Vees, he'd have to be changed to their image and semblance, thus fundamentally changing a lot of what makes him himself.
AND
That's why Alastor feels somehow safe and confessed to Niffty that he might get accustomed to that human collective that formed at the Hotel. Because they just let Alastor be, with his creepy ways and all. Even despite Charlie's attempts.to redeem them, Alastor is who he is around them and they don't try to make him different.
In Guillermo del Toro's words: To love is not to change, to love someone is to accept them as they are.
@girlbossradiodemon: Queerness as an insight into humanity. I am curious what that means.
heya, hope it's ok to move your question to a new post, because it gave me an opportunity to ramble about something I've been thinking about -- so we'll call this post:
hazbin hotel, aroace alastor, and complicating redemption
cannot remember how i phrased it in the original post, but the main crux of the idea about queerness as humanising is "when does horror and villainy use queerness as a shorthand for Other/deviant and when are those thing subverted"
in terms of alastor specifically, aspec identity (especially the kind that is on the repulsed side of things) is often used -- without people knowing they're even describing real experiences and identities -- as a way of describing a lack of feeling, a lack of empathy, a lack of connection with other human beings, as a way of signposting "this is going to be a Bad Guy, look at this person who can't engage in the Universal Human Experience Of Love (sometimes with the prerequisite desire for sex, and sometimes it's the just-wanting-sex-but-not-love that's the Evil Code)"
note here, of course, that a lack of empathy also shouldn't be a shorthand for evil! the word "psychopath" generally needs to be put on a high shelf for anyone writing anything unless they can prove they know what in the world they're talking about!!
with alastor, when reading with the aroace hat on, we get an insight into how he does relate to other people. rather than going "he's so evil he can't love," it's opening up questions about what sort of connections he does form with people, and how those are complex, and possibly there's a lot of backstory there -- that's part of the whole story we're seeing with pretty much all the main characters: "misfits who have struggled to form connections because of their specific brands of Weirdness (and also they're in hell)"
now something im interested in with him being aspec, is how the show also to an extent deconstructs the ideas that being alloromantic and allosexual are necessarily indicators of goodness, and could go a lot further in future, if it wanted to -- this works better because almost all the characters in this show are queer (and tbh, until niffty is confirmed to be allorom, i am hc'ing her as aro), and so there's much less risk of falling into the trap of "deviant sexualities vs normal sexualities" that even some shows with queer characters fall for, because they still set up monogamous, allosexual relationships as More Correct vs Other Kinds Of Queerness That Is Bad
in the hellaverse, being kinky isn't semiotics for evil, being poly isn't semiotics for evil, being arocoded isn't semiotics for evil, etcetc.
being aspec is a difficult pill for a lot of people to swallow, including other queers, especially aromanticism, and so it's neat to consider the potential of portraying depictions of love and sex that are healthy (charlie and vaggie, pentious and cherri bomb, etc) next to depictions of love and sex that are unhealthy/toxic/abusive (valentino's and vox's ways of interacting with these things) next to depictions of not-love and not-sex that are complex and (i hope) indicators of how to get to know a character better, rather than villainising or simplifying a character. that maybe initially a character like charlie (amongst others) might not get it, but that's something she needs to sort out, not alastor
it's another way the show could go a step deeper into deconstructing how we take in ideas about "goodness" in narrative and in life based on simple clichés, for example the idea that "love redeems you" -- well, what if you don't love? and what if you do love, but that's not an indicator of goodness at all? is "love" in fact an all-encompassing positive force in the first place? why do we place it on this pedestal?
in many ways the potential of alastor through being aroace, reminds me a little of how we see angel in season 1. he's introduced a Certain way -- as shallow, as someone who doesn't put the work in, as someone who "doesn't care," -- and these narratives are enforced diagetically and non-diagetically by showing that he's an addict and a sex worker. a lot of the scenes related to drugs and sex work and kinky sex are funny (crack is expensive), and/or are met with disgust by the main characters (the sex dungeon), are considered things he needs to overcome in order to be worthy of redemption (the roleplay with sir pentious)...
and then those things are pulled apart, and both narrative and characters go: "what's wrong with being a sex-worker? what's wrong with being an addict? hell, what's wrong with liking sex???" and through that "why does he need to prove himself to be redeemed?" and i predict, eventually, already heading in that direction "why even need to be redeemed when the problem is the black-and-white morality of pure goodness/badness to begin with?????"
and i think alastor being aroace could play a cool part in that. it's not love that makes alastor human, and it's certainly not sex. it's how he interacts with not fitting into those normative boxes, and how other characters, hopefully, eventually, will learn to see things from his perspective (at least, in this case)
the whole the idea of "queerness as an insight into humanity" is something both hazbin and helluva do really well, because of their portraying queerness as a given, as the thing that it simply is how these characters interact with the world -- whether good or bad or somewhere in between, the characters' queerness invites us to ask questions about them, and i think some characters offer that opportunity even more starkly than others...
i mean alastor of course. keeper of the aroace Themes.
so yeah. aroace as humanising. love doesn't mean goodness. what even does redemption mean?
[ID: The old photo of Vox and Valentino; Vox is wearing a turtleneck that appears yellow or orange due to the lighting, but the color closely matches Val’s wings/coat, which we know to be red // End ID]
I wanted a higher quality image of the photo, so I pulled up the scene with the photograph on a tv and took a picture with my phone.
Then I color picked from three different spots on Vox’s sweater (2 along the brighter strip and 1 along the darker strip) and 2 from his line art (one near his blue jacket, one near his sweater). From Val I picked 2 from the flat color of his wing, and 1 from his line art on the cuff near his wing. All colors were picked from the same shadowed section of the photograph. Fig. 1
Disclaimer: the color picking was difficult due to the pixelation generate by the tv screen. If tumblr doesn’t eat the quality and you zoom in, you’ll notice that all the colors are in pixel “cells” with the center being the brightest and the edges ranging from dark to black. Fig. 2
Fig 2.
With this pixelation in mind, I tried my best to color pick between the center and the edge and get an approximation of what the color would look like to our eyes after zooming out/blending together. (Attempts to take an actual blended version of the colors resulted in the brighter strips on Vox’s sweater losing the vibrancy and becoming muddied by the darker edges of the pixel’s cells.)
For comparison with OP’s picked colors, I picked additional colors from Vox and Val near where OP had taken them.
Analysis: the colors picked from this picture are significantly brighter than the colors OP picked, likely due to the nature of the pixelation. Vox’s line-art ranges from dark red-purple to a desaturated dark red. Val’s line art closely matches Vox’s dark red-purple line art. The darker strip going down the center of Vox’s sweater is darker than the two strips next to is but significantly light/more saturated than the two colors picked from Vox’s line art. The lighter strip to the right is significantly brighter than both other colors picked from Vox’s sweater. The lighter strip on the left is lighter than the strip in the middle, darker than the strip on the right, and is slightly brighter than but still matches the colors picked from Val’s wing.
Conclusion: the darker strip of color down the middle of Vox’s sweater does not match with the colors picked from line art and is therefore likely not a faded thin black line but is actually just a darker shade of red. The two brighter strips of color on either side do not match, but this is likely due to lighting within the photograph itself, with the strip on the right being in the light and the strip on the left being closer to Vox’s arm and therefore in the shadows, similar to Val’s wing. Vox is therefore wearing a red sweater that matches with Val’s wings with darker red vertical stripes.
i've done a few posts on alastor being aroace -- what kind of potentials exist because of being aroace, what kind of semiotics already exist in the show and what more could be added, alastor and aroace loneliness and one on alastor and touch
a lot of this explores how alastor in some ways is set apart from the other main characters on the show, because he's different (and not because he likes murder and mayhem, plenty of people on the show enjoy that, after all - if anything that's a relatively normative trait in hell), but because of how he views people, society, relationships, and how he's incredibly afraid of being seen as vulnerable in a very specific way, so there's a mix of walls he's put up to protect himself and also just... who he is, and what he values
anyway, should do a post on the opposite thing to the ways alastor (deliberately, and due to the society around him) is at a distance from others, instead write something about alastor and closeness, alastor and how he shows respect, alastor and how he shows he enjoys others' company, alastor and connection, alastor and how he (potentially) cares, that looks into what he's shown so far on the show
things to think about, although it's early days in the story yet and i wonder if i should wait until s2 drops for more data
OKAY OKAY ALRIGHT ALRIGHT, with @creepysora adding some very good points!
so a post about some of the things that show him connecting to others, respecting others, and a bit about his code of conduct/honour. again, I'm not including pilot!alastor whose interactions especially with vaggie feel quite different
(EDIT: ohhh i do like a lot of text don't I. that got long)
beginning at the beginning:
the commercial. an early series of interactions with vaggie -- he doesn't take it seriously at first, but once he makes vaggie agree to not try to wrangle him into doing it again (which, yes, is a mini-deal moment, but also shows a very real side of alastor's feelings) he goes all-in, even making sure it gets a prime spot, before it's knocked off because of the breaking news
protecting the hotel against sir pentious and fixing the hole sir pentious made in the hotel -- notably, he doesn't kill pentious, which could partially be read as "it's beneath him to do so," but i want to get a little into that idea as well (in a bit)
on the note of "being beneath him," when he's ordered to get rid of the egg bois by vaggie and agrees to do so humanely -- and then brings them back. the second of these is slightly less a helpful deed on the surface, but i do see it as him going from being ok with destroying them (until vaggie says "humanely") to deciding they're worth being alive. he doesn't make use of them again, but he acknowledges their value and pays them back. I don't think he'd have enjoyed killing them anyway to be honest
compliments zestial and takes his side during the "angel killing debate." this doubly interesting considering zestial would absolutely have been there during alastor's rise to power, so they have History, but they're clearly chill -- he doesn't compliment all overlords, but he and zestial seem very cordial
didn't kill husk Back In The Day. this may become more mercenary with context, buuuuut i think there's a "liking" element to it too. something about husk's style perhaps, at the same time as not posing a "real" threat to his power and perhaps a certain enjoyment in putting him in his place. but crucially, didn't kill him
i think with niffty over and over again alastor is quite kind, and i hc/theorise that their relationship is partially a meeting of equals in temperament
tbh, as much as there's personal pride in the mix, going up against lucifer also feels like a form of protecting the spirit of the hotel, because lucifer is dismissive about the project, the place, and the people from the very first second. yes, alastor used to be that too, but that's kind of the point... he... maybe cares now... (and also lucifer is kind of a dick at this point)
protecting the hotel and mimzy against the mobsters. generally clearly seems to get nothing (?) out of his relationship with mimzy, while giving her a lot -- allows her to touch him more than most other characters (exception perhaps of rosie and niffty -- all of them + charlie have different kinds of touch relationships with him)
despite their closeness, tells mimzy to leave unless she genuinely wants to give redemption a shot, but isn't threatening about it at all, and lets her temper tantrum at him
takes charlie to rosie, which in and of itself is a helpful and thoughtful act -- even if, again, he does get something out of it, and im sure he wants to keep charlie alive also for deal reasons, but specifically bringing rosie into the picture... it's interesting that this comes as basically a freebie after already making a deal, and also like his showing her a part of town that he feels at home in does constitute a genuine sharing ("it's... surprisingly nice." "ISN'T IT THOUGH!")
his whole dynamic with rosie -- the ease of their interactions, the trust, the dance
gives charlie his mic... TWICE! this is such a big deal!!!! will think about this some more
generally goes from not believing in charlie to her face, to openly believing in her ability to do Things and inspire people. again again again, there's a mercenary something, but ALSO again, tied with what he says to mimzy, getting rosie involved, supporting charlie's mental wellbeing... he does like her and he's showing her that he likes her and values her. he didn't believe in this hotel and now he is going to bat for it, and for her -- he could have not and she'd still be relying on him
the conversation with niffty the night before the battle -- sincerely expressing delight at the hotel gang when they're not around to hear it ("it's been a surprising thrill it witness these wayward souls find connection. almost makes one sentimental ey niffty?" "I really like them alastor [...]" "an enjoyable collective to be around. I admit one could grow accustomed") + allowing niffty to "crown" him
fights in the battle and almost dies and RECOGNISES that all of these together would have added up to people thinking he was an altruist (gasp) LIKES charlie and the hotel gang and could have died for them and promptly has a mental breakdown over it, but... BUT... is there truth in this, otherwise why would it affect him so much? (also it's a song and songs are often about revealing hidden truths)
in the past, allowed a picture to be taken of himself and vox. i think this is a big deal, personally
A FURTHER BREAKDOWN
The singing: a lot of the singing in Hazbin is clearly diegetic, and generally songs in musicals often reveal character moments they might not share so readily outside of these, so just thinking about the way alastor sings in this story (not counting the pilot) --
stayed gone (rivalry with vox)
hell's greatest dad (rivalry with lucifer)
ready for this (duet and dance with rosie)
finale (breakdown)
finale (final collective song)
On the whole: alastor is introduced through his songs in terms of his antagonisms and it's not until the second-to-last episode that some of the singing he does presents a different side to him -- someone who works well with others (charlie and rosie), who takes on a backing role, who, yes, states an intention of "guiding" charlie, but also that he believes in her, and showing how he and rosie see eye to eye and work well together
the finale breakdown is basically what i was saying in point 14, that he recognises his reputation has changed, how he's perceived by especially the hotel, but also the wider world of hell is not as someone completely villainous and monstrous, but... altruistic... someone with friends? and it disturbs him... how much truth is there in the rumour? i'd say a little, personally, and his ongoing storyline will be that push-and-pull between how he thinks he wants to be perceived, and how the existence of the hotel is introducing him to new possibilities, and how scared he is of them
and then the very end! he comes back "and we're doing it with a smile!" gets warmly welcomed by most of the residents, and then joins in on the final harmony (sidenote: apparently one of amir talai's favourite moments was this shared moment, because it's the first time the whole cast of characters has come together... minus sir pentious of course)
And so! What do all these Moments mean?
Uh. speculation really, but let's take a look at some hypotheses
1. alastor doesn't kill people whom he doesn't genuinely dislike or feel some kind of disgust with, and especially doesn't seem to target those demonstrably weaker than him Just Because of Funsies. he seems to need a reason to
the egg bois as example (frank specifically) do prove themselves to him, so why would he go out of his way to kill them? what fun would there be in that, what sport, and also isn't that a somewhat cowardly/ungentlemanly thing to do. there's some kind of respect and sincerity in that decision, which is part of the tension over and over again with alastor -- that maybe his mask isn't that good in the end! that he has got morals, of some kind and isn't really as heartless as, say, the vees might be when faced with the same options. sure, he'll kill egg bois during battle, but that's different. he wouldn't kill them casually
he also doesn't kill sir pentious, not necessarily out of respect, but i like the idea that it ties in again to self-respect, and a code of conduct. he'll mock him, he'll humiliate him, but only if sir pentious starts it, and he's not genuinely trying to fuck him up (unlike, say, the mobsters who come for mimzy)
2. I also don't think alastor likes punching down -- that is, he humiliates sir pentious, but only because he keeps coming back, and he does initially make fun of the hotel, but not for very long (and i think we'll get some more context on his emotions coming into the hotel once we know what the deal with his deal is). I think part of his dislike of characters like vox and lucifer, is that they're privileged assholes towards people who don't have their kind of power. that is, lucifer immediately judges the residents of the hotel, alastor included, in ways that are casually unkind, and especially off to a mixed race guy from down south, and vox's whole Thing is how easy it is to punch down (heck, all the vees are like that)
husk is a bit of an odd one in this setup, and generally whatever's going on there presents a big ??? and possible hole in this theory, but that ties into how i read husk and the dynamic around mimzy and alastor's (human) flaws of acting out when feeling cornered, physically or emotionally, and this scene was way more emotional for alastor than he would like to admit
but yeah, i don't think alastor likes punching down. i don't think he gets anything out of it, i also think this idea will tie into the kind of people he used to kill as a human
3. alastor allows a certain amount of touch from some people in specific ways. with charlie it's often him touching her, starting in episode 6, but seeming more sincere in episode 7 -- hand on the shoulder, linking arms, kind of got a "gay uncle taking a favourite niece to the Strand to go shopping" sort of vibe to it
niffty crawls all over him, but she's sort of a creature in her demeanour. i hc that he's the most comfortable with her, because they do have a shared language of otherness and oddness that supersedes boundaries he may set with others
mimzy and alastor hug + she tugs him down casually -- i hc he acquiesces to this out of habit, and they've probably danced similarly to how he does with rosie. i think mimzy and rosie have similar kinds of physical closeness with alastor (until he draws a line in the sand with mimzy). notably, compared to how he reacts to sir pentious ripping off a piece of his coat, alastor doesn't react so strongly to mimzy poking him in the chest, although he's clearly angry, so he definitely allows some liberties with people he likes (see also shaking lucifer's cane rather than his hand and still wiping his hand on his suit afterwards)
4. alastor allows a certain amount of push-back and insult. there's mimzy of course, but there's also vaggie, whom i think he respects quite a bit actually, even if it's more subtle than with some of the other women. the whole back and forth with the commercial, considering how much alastor hates video (because of vox) and yet he still does that for her, he listens and obeys when she orders him to take the egg bois from the hotel, and she's also relatively happy to see him when he returns to the hotel in the finale. speaking of the commercial
5. acts of service -- alastor will acquiesce to certain things (touch, insult, argument, having his picture taken, making a video, letting charlie chatter about her romantic life even though He Does Not Care) if he respects someone, but I think his real Thing is being useful. he's useful to mimzy, he's useful to the hotel in numerous big and small ways, he's useful specifically to charlie, he's clearly been useful to rosie often, and i hc his inability to be really useful in the big fight is also part of his breakdown. yes, he overestimated his own abilities/hubris/"oh no what will people think, that im nice????" and i think baked into that is also... what is the point of him if he can't be useful?
im interested in how he rationalises this, how much is conscious or not, how much he tells himself all of this is for a greater cause (himself) and how much he genuinely wants to help because he likes to be helpful, and i think that's one of the big future tensions in his character -- when does the mask slip, can he explain it away as not really caring, will he try to make sure nobody sees him care? but whether he sees it as purely acts of quid pro quo or as part of a long game, at least some degree of his acts of service contain elements of sincerity
6. also alastor compliments people. he compliments zestial, he compliments rosie, he compliments charlie, he compliments niffty, he compliments mimzy, technically he compliments everyone in the hotel at once with his "wayward souls" speech (although not to their faces). he's also fond of casual "dears" and "darlings" (haven't checked how many of those + others, but have noticed a few of them)
So while alastor isn't big into traditionally accepted modes of human connection -- love, sex, casual touches -- he has ways of showing respect, care, connection, politeness, morals, and even kindness
compliments, compromise, acts of service, and protecting seem to be more in his wheelhouse
In future I'd be interested to see:
whether he'd try to make himself useful in other ways to characters (vaggie and angel interest me especially, since i think they have a lot in common with alastor in various ways, but all the characters really)
what his background with vox (and potentially val) is and how that plays into his general relationships with men
what kind of people he killed as a human, his relationship with his mother, and how his life all potentially plays into his general relationships with men
whether he'll bond with cherri bomb too, now she's at the hotel, and continue the trend of his being closer with women than with men
what kinds of touch he'll allow (or not allow) in future -- whether men will start being included on the list or adamantly not
how rosie will continue to fit into the picture, as someone who knows a lot about alastor that he doesn't know about himself, and how that "not knowing" echoes his own narrative about who he is, not just in terms of queerness, but queerness as insight into a humanity (one of my favourite tropes, so rare in aroaceness as to be practically unheard of)
background on his relationships with husk and niffty
whether he'll continue to want to front as heartless and monstrous and those walls coming down will have an equal and terrible reaction out of Fear of being perceived as... a human soul
IN CONCLUSION:
one of the big things about alastor that was interesting while making this list is the continuous question: what is sincere and what is for own gain? and what is both? and does alastor himself know the difference, or ever acknowledge his own sincerity? considering his mental breakdown over almost dying for the hotel, the idea that he's not simply a ruthless killer and monster is one that i think fills him with dread. he wants to be perceived as these things because it keeps him safe, keeps him powerful (which is the same as safe), but despite that, there are cracks -- vague enough that one can umm and ahh about how much one thing or another can be counted as genuine, but the cracks... they're there
is it enough that he "lets" the egg bois live? that he shows preference for some people over others? what are his relationships with husk and niffty going to say about how he relates to others? who was vox to him? who was mimzy? how will his sexuality and romantic orientation play into the wider themes of humanising him? what will charlie become to him? the rest of the hotel?
I'd argue there's a good deal more sincerity to alastor than his own character would admit, and it's especially hard to pinpoint, because so much of it is tied to things that are also partially done in order to attain something. and alastor is such an unreliable narrator to his own experiences, that the idea that he'd genuinely care -- even as he admitted it eeeever so slightly in the final episode to niffty -- would make him incredibly uncomfortable, because it would be weakness, it would be... well, human, in the same way that admitting that things trigger his boundaries (and that he feels potentially vulnerable quite easily) humanises him. and being human is being weak, and being weak is being powerless, and being powerless is the worst thing you can be, in the world and in hell
what would it look like if he were free to admit the things that do connect him to others and free to admit the ways in which he's either comfortable or uncomfortable around others? if he were perceived as a human being and not as a monster?
in conclusion about the feral deer man: get domesticated! (partially)
