Hi. I'm a rando on the internet. Nothing I say is real. Don't believe any of it. 🤡🤡🤡🤡
Okay, so I'm somebody who, in the year of our lord 2023, got sucked into bjyx. I've gone all hyper-fixated on it, and I need somewhere to splurge out my thoughts so I can at least get them out of my head.
I was honestly really reluctant to buy into bjyx. Reeeeeally reluctant. But I eventually caved, and I'd like to explain why so I can organize my thoughts.
If you're reading this, hi. I hope you enjoy. I'll link to some videos if I have the link handy, but I feel hesitant about the propriety of linking to the bts videos. I started watching them on YouTube, and after having read more widely, I guess some of them aren't supposed to be on there? Anyway, I'm just gonna err on the side of not linking to bts videos. (I don't know if it matters bc I'm in the US, on a minor platform, and it's many years on from when they were filmed, but hey, better safe or whatever)
This isn't a primer or intro, so I won't take the time to explain terms. I'll also refer to widely-known bjyx candies without too much explanation. Again, this is mainly for me.
Most of this isn't new in the turtle world. I guess I have a few thoughts that I haven't seen anybody else (in English) say, but I don't think it's that insightful. But if you want to read yet another "How I learned to stop worrying and become a turtle" post, this is for you.
It's gonna be long, though, so it's in multiple parts that I'm still editing.
I really do plan to post this, then fade into the night to resume lurking because I don't have the time for long fandom engagement. So make of it what you will and then go off and do what makes you happy.
None of this is real anyway. 🤡🤡🤡🤡
1. My Turtle Origin Story
2. Consuming Candies Pt 1: DD and GG are le Gay
3. Consuming Candies Pt 2: DD ❤️ GG and GG ❤️ DD
4. Miscellany and Such
5. The Acceptance of Unsteady Ground
Special Turtle Prezzie! Timeline of GGDD Love <- 🐢🎁❤️
Um, hi y'all. Long time; no post. But I still totes keep up with the boys and have the feels about so many things but not enough time/energy to actively engage with stuff until this brief moment, but...
I know DD's NYE performance is being overshadowed by the serious safety concerns, which is completely reasonable because wow. That's sucky.
But I still gotta take a moment to just break down crying a la He Jiong about the performance itself because
Dude seriously just sang an out-and-out gay love song on stage at a time when I have strong feels for the LGBT community due to my own personal issues what with the outcome of the recent US election. So a moment, in a country repressive country like China, where an artist is so bold as to perform a love song for his gay partner on-stage and it's so freaking beautiful and perfect...
Yeah, I got big feels.
Youtube had an official version of the performance uploaded last night (I know because I watched it multiple times) but it seems to have disappeared today. Not sure the whys. But the closest I could find was this fancam so here:
Put aside the safety panic for a moment and please join me in looping the ending love-wail while sobbing openly. 😭
So the GQ event that dd attended recently (you know, the one with the love hat) was supposedly gonna share his MBTI type with us. I don't think they ever did, probably because dd just didn't do the test thing. I'm not surprised we never got to see his mbti type, but I did have my own guess as to what he'd score, so I figured I'd share here.
(As a note, MBTI is pretty much junk science but it's fun. Just don't take it too seriously. I used to be really into it in a fannish sense and it's the closest I get to woo-stuff. If you don't know what MBTI is, here have fun.)
Cut to the chase: I'd guess dd is ISFP. My reasoning below the cut.
Introvert - The best way I've found to describe the difference is that introverts recharge by being alone. That is, a weekend full of social engagements is something they need some alone-time after. For an extrovert, social events, themselves, recharge them. Being alone is what's exhausting and what they try to avoid.
DD's probably rarely fully alone, given his busy schedule and the life of a celebrity. But introverts have ways to introverting, even among a bunch of people. I think sometimes people conflate "introvert" to mean "shy", but they're not the same. I don't think dd is particularly shy. It's just all about where your energy comes from.
Sensing - This one is about how you process information.
As an illustration, my bff and I were on a road trip once. She's the type who liked to literally pull over a smell the freaking flowers. And she could name every single flower/plant/tree she came across. Her eye for detail and ability to describe things with precision is always boggling to me, because to me, the most I can say is something like "It was sunny and the trees are green". Very vague. All about the overall impression rather than the details.
In MBTI terms, my bff would be Sensing while I'm Intuition (this is the N. Just go with it). Intuition folks are thought of as the big picture, abstract thinkers while Sensing is about the details and about the Facts of the World.
I mentioned before that dd strikes me as a pretty literal thinker, and that type of thinking overlaps with Sensing more than Intuition.
Feeling - People get confused by this one. It's not about whether the person expresses emotions or anything like that. It's about decision-making. When making a choice, does this person weigh the pros and cons? Try to come to a reasonable and sound decision? Or do they go by gut, following their emotions like animes tell them to?
This is hard to assess because we don't know much about how dd goes about making the decisions he makes. We don't know what went into his decision to go into idol training, say, or why he put his hat in the ring for The Untamed.
I'm making a guess that he's more driven by emotion than thinking. This isn't to say he acts blindly without any thought or that he never makes rational decisions, but he weighs his feelings highly. He'll pursue a gay romantic relationship with another celebrity, despite the risks, because he's in love and, you know, he follows his heart. His decision to submit his headshot for The Untamed, especially, strikes me as being Feeling-driven. Given his career at the time, acting in a BL adaptation was off the beaten path and risky. He lost fans because of it.
I think both gg and dd make a feelings-based decision to drop candies for turtles. There's no rational business case to do so. It's simply because they value having a group of fans who recognize them as a couple and they want to keep those fans with them.
Perceiving - This one's about how you plan or organize your time (or don't).
Judgers are the type to have a planner with a set schedule a routine. They have trouble adapting when their schedule gets disrupted. Perceivers are more go with the flow, able to take things as they come. When taking vacays, they would rather not have a packed itinerary bc they want the freedom to go where the moment takes them.
This is also something I don't feel I have a lot of insight on. DD's schedule is heavily managed and heavily packed, and he spends most of his time diligently following along with that schedule. That's part of his job, though. On his own, would he be inclined to keep to a schedule? I kinda don't think so.
I'm just going based on his...um...general chaotic energy. That and his tendency to do his KPI social media posts all at the last minute. Classic Perceiver move.
***
So, ISFP. In truth, each of these traits is a spectrum and people show examples all along the different traits at different times (for instance, dd's decision-making in SDC is typically strategic rather than based on feelings). Most things are based on context. But this feels right to me, overall.
For gg, I haven't watched near as much of him as I have of dd, but a guess would be INFJ.
Feel free to share your own ideas. Or squee about the love hat. Whatever. 🐢🐢🐢
So this is a personal post more about my experience as a turtle. If you just want to get to the fun list of candies I totally buy into regardless of evidence, just skip down to where the asterisks are. (Consider this like a recipe attached to a blog post)
For those interested in the whole nerdery going on here, let me share that I had a lot of trouble coming to terms with bjyxszd. I wrote a whole series of posts about it to get my thoughts in order. Now I'm fully on the turtle train, but I find myself skeptical of some candies.
This is gonna get super-nerdy so hold on to your butts.
I'm a generally skeptical person. I come by it honestly. My parents literally subscribed to Skeptical Inquirer and Skeptics magazines. They (well, my dad mainly) were capital-S Skeptics. My family talked about logical fallacies, perceptual oddness, and the fallibility of memory over the dinner table.
Please don't back away. I know self-identified Skeptics are typically insufferable. I didn't know this as a kiddo, though, so the whole "thinking about things skeptically" became just my default way of processing stuff. Nowadays, I wouldn't call myself a Skeptic in the way that some in a particularly obnoxious subculture do. But I do tend to be a skeptical sort. I just don't...you know...think it makes me smarter/better/cooler than other folks.
(Actually, it makes me way less cool bc I can single-handedly ruin a fun party by expressing skepticism about something. Nobody likes a wet blanket. I know this)
My bestie in high school always called me Scully to his Mulder. He would believe anything he saw or read, whereas I didn't. Usually, I was right. Like when he totally thought that the Blair Witch Project was real found footage (It's not. Nobody thinks it is now, I know, but it was part of the promo at the time). On occasion, he was right. Like when he told me that some gray clouds we had overheard were from wildfires in Mexico. I scoffed bc, really, we weren't that close to Mexico. But he was right and I learned a valuable lesson on large-scale weather phenomenon. (He's still wrong about there being a picture of a light bulb in the pyramids though)
So, yeah, that's just how I process things. It's second-nature for me. But I reached a point with my generally skeptical outlook where I considered 2 things to see whether I really cared if people were buying into something I thought was false.
The stakes. If a person believes X, what does that lead to? If I don't believe Y, even though it's true, what does that lead to?
There's a whole bunch of political stuff that heightens the stakes. To take a ridiculous (and outdated one), when I was growing up, there was a common story that AIDS hopped from apes to humans because a gay man had sex with an ape and then had sex with other humans. Thus, the AIDS epidemic.
The stakes of other people buying into that homophobic nonsense were (and are) life and death. (If you believe that...uh...bye?) It's something that's worth me being the obnoxious Scully if I hear someone buying into it.
The stakes of, say, my high school bestie believing that The Blair Witch Project was real found footage was...nothing. It just made him want to see the movie more. Nobody was hurt. It didn't matter.
I argued with him at the time, but I probably wouldn't anymore.
The stakes for believing that bjyxszd, here in international fandom, are perhaps higher than the Blair Witch thing. But only barely. If somebody believes in a particular rumor/candy that I don't think is real, it affects literally nothing. We're both still turtles. We have a lot more in common than we do difference with regards to YiZhan. Likewise, the effect of me not believing a candy that may be true is nil. Gg and dd are not impacted in any way.
(I think things may be different for c-fans, but that's not at all a thing I'm qualified to delve into. I can only account for myself in my context)
2. The other thing I consider is the context. That is, how likely are we to know the actual truth?
Scientific claims have a method to test them (and claims that can't be tested are just...not something science addresses). Claims about current events can be researched using journalism methods or whatever. For that homophobic AIDS story, there's ways to prove that it's not true. For the Blair Witch thing...well, the actors went on the talk show circuit for promo so, you know, the real footage myth was quickly lifted.
Celebrities exist in a different context. Like most people, they have a private life that is not accessible to people on the outside. If they choose to open up about that life, then cool. But if they don't or can't do so (like is the case with YiZhan), then they'll try to keep their private life out of sight of fans.
It really hit home to me when I was doing the bts thing how little of dd and gg we saw in the Untamed bts. We see even less of them now. I'm at peace with the fact that I just will never know much about these guys (I wrote a whole post about it). But the fact that there's a big mass of the unknown means that the possibilities are endless. We don't know and we'll never know.
So I don't have any more authority on anything gg or dd related than anybody else does. So why would I attempt to question or dismiss candies that other people find compelling? At the end of the day, there is a truth, but it's not accessible to us, so anything we come up with is just extrapolation.
Which is fine. It's fun. I think there's real stuff going on. (If I didn't, I wouldn't be here) But it means there's no real point arguing about the specific candies.
(and to be clear, I don't see turtles doing this, really. so this is all just me reiterating my own approach to things bc I'm a person who processes thoughts through long tumblr posts apparently) (and it's not a reaction to any particular candy. this post has been in my drafts for ages)
I think I'm a hard sell on a lot of candies, and I'm definitely the fuddy-duddy who just squints and asks a bunch of obnoxious questions about things.
But I ask those questions of myself and don't feel the need to annoy other turtles with them because, honestly, we're all in this boat together. Some candies appeal to particular turtles more than others, and I think we all kinda have our personal preferences for which ones resonate with us. I'm not here to rain on anybody's parade, especially as we all have way more in common just bc we all believe in bjyxszd.
This is all a long-winded way to explain how I think about candies, honestly. Or more, how I assess candies that are new-to-me and figure out whether to buy into it or not. With anything involving bjyx, I also leave a lot of room for there just being an unknown and unknowable. Again, the stakes are low, and if I'm wrong about any particular candy (in either direction), then...oh well? It affects literally nothing.
So here's the fun part! The list of candies that I fully admit don't have a whole lot going for them (by my stupidly exacting standards) but that I totally buy into just because I like them.
Basically all lip-readings, but especially this one
(if you don't want to click thru, this is the moment from the Nanjing farewell concert where dd and gg seem to flirt about photos while on-stage)
Okay, I know, rationally, that lip-readings are always gonna be shaky. I mean, I've seen Medieval Land Fun-Time World. If I'm honest with myself, I know that the lip-readings are basically fluffy candy.
But whatever. I choose to believe them. This moment, especially, I adore (and it does come with dd posting a bare-faced photo after!). I think their big grins while openly flirting with each other on stage just jazzes me enough to pretend.
It's all true. I totally believe it.
Related to this is:
2. Any and all CPN about dd and/or gg seeing turtle signs and smiling or otherwise reacting positively.
I've seen such CSI-worthy analysis of sight-lines to try to establish with precision where dd or gg is looking at the moment they smile/look happy. I have no idea how much any of it holds up, and it's not worth the bother to try to confirm any of it.
But whatever. I like it. I believe it. I'll probably believe it everytime it happens.
3. Advanced Bombology.
So there's some things that aren't in dispute here. We definitely know that gg suddenly cut an Olay commercial ad from a 2 day shoot to a 1 day shoot, and it's a reasonable assumption that he did so to be at the DDU anniversary episode with GG.
The rest is a little fuzzy. The video details dd being kinda grouchy in interviews before the DDU shoot, and it also shares an anon rumor from a person who claimed to overhear dd in a studio restroom arguing on the phone with gg. This rumor came out a year after the event.
The rest of the video is some interpretation of the boys' behavior/mood in the DDU anniversary ep.
So, like, I get that anon rumors a year on maybe aren't the most solid evidence for anything. But whatever, I buy it.
And the interpretation of the boys' mood seems true to me, especially the moment where the interviewer asks gg if they'd discussed his visit ahead of time. Gg def does a sweatdrop, panic pause, look at dd moment and waits for dd's lead to answer. I find a lot of mood interpretation from videos a bit much, but this feels real.
In fact, the whole thing just feels real. Maybe that's why it's easy for me to buy. It feels like a real argument a couple would have.
4. The 5/22 fight during CQL shooting.
I talked about this back when I was doing the bts in order.
In tl;dr, dd gives gg a bit of a brush-off response to something. gg responds by cold shouldering him and then doing some passive aggressive sniping about how dd doesn't want gg to care about him. dd gets upset, then he apologizes, then they go on to watch something on one of their phones.
The basis of this one is some gossip plus a video shot from a distance that requires reading lips. So we know that's already fuzzy, and I know I approached this with some skepticism in my earlier post. That was just to be rational about things so as to be honest with myself.
In truth, I buy it. I buy the argument. I buy the lip-reading. Again, it feels real.
5. GG's card to turtles
This is one of those frustrating ones I'm having trouble refinding. Darn.
The upshot, and I'm going from memory, is that there's a CPN about a card written to turtles ostensibly from gg. This came with some handwriting comparison to try to match the signature to gg's known signature.
This isn't something I'd place bets on, because...seriously, it's so fuzzy.
But in my heart, I believe it for no reason other than that I want to.
6. DD as gg's mystery driver
Okay, there's a couple such incidents. One quite recently. Where gg's driver is mysteriously masked such that you can't see their face.
And, truth, it could be literally anybody under there. But for me, it's dd. No need to give me painstaking comparisons of hands or whatever. I'm fully in on this one.
7. The bone necklace.
Ack, don't hate me for this one!
When I was doing my posts about stuff that had convinced me that gg and dd were still together, I stumbled with the bone necklace. To me, it's the main thing that convinces me, but if I'm honest, it really is kinda a leap of faith thing.
With the ox-head necklace, we have the fancam footage to back it up as being from gg. All we have for the bone necklace is the timing and the precedent of dd having already worn a necklace from gg. That's shaky, really.
In fact, I think I saw some other dd CP claiming the bone necklace as theirs (I saw them also claiming the Leica camera). I think they're wrong, but I don't have any solid proof to say so.
I think the most I can say is that there are much harder evidences that gg and dd are still together. But these typically involve massive privacy violations so I'm not eager to spread them around (I kinda hate that I stumble upon them, tbh). But in any case, it has me convinced, so if I already know gg and dd are a couple, then of course the bone necklace is related.
But on its own, the bone necklace is a leap.
Okay, that all said, since I (finally) had a photo of dd last time I posted, I'm dropping a random gg photo here. Not my favorite, cause pls don't make me choose, but one that hangs out my head throughout the days.
Okay, the gender post! Honestly, dd's gender presentation is something I think about a lot (ok, I just think about everything dd-related a lot), so here's a post about it. A couple disclaimers on the way down though.
Gender is weird
Um, so gender is complicated and deep. I'm not gonna delve into that too much. Just know I'm not saying much about dd's gender identity, because that's too speculative for me and I don't tend to analyze how people might feel their gender inside.
So this is all about gender expression or performance. The way he presents himself to the world. This includes stuff like clothing, ways of talking, makeup, mannerisms, etc. Anything we can see when we watch him.
For those more into the advanced gender convo, yes yes, gender is a social construct and there's nothing inherent about, say, a tuxedo that makes it a "man's" outfit. Fully onboard with that. But for simplicity's sake, let's shortcut to acting as if we buy into how society genders random stuff so as to recognize that a tux is "male-coded" by just about every society in the present day. Everybody swims in these waters, and they perform their gender with the understanding of how their society assigns these arbitrary gender assignments, so let's just deal with that for this convo. /obligatory gender theorist disclaimer
East vs West
I'm in the US, and I fully recognize that there are different norms for gender in Eastern cultures. A lot of the things that read as "feminine" to Western eyes is more neutral in the East, such as long hair or makeup. (I've read a fantastic tumblr post that went into this in-depth but, alas, I can't find it now. You will notice throughout this post that I am extraordinarily bad at refinding things)
On top of that, idols, in specific, often have quite feminine stylings to Western standards. In the East, the vibe I get is that idols are seen as more androgynous (though still threatening to some forms of masculinity).
I can only speak from my own very westernized perspective, so take it with as much salt as you want. I reserve the right to change my mind about everything later, anyway.
Basically, I have 3 main points here, starting with:
1. DD's early styling was more femme than he would ordinarily gravitate to
There's a moment I think about a lot. This one, specifically, set a month and a half after UNIQ's debut. The band is on a Chinese talk show and the host enthuses about them.
(also, baby DD rapping Love the Way You Lie is just....well, it's a thing that happened) (some US context: Love The Way You Lie was an Issue Song pointedly about domestic violence with Rihanna - an artist who had been a victim of a highly publicized dv assault - as the chorus singer and Eminem - a rapper with a history of misogynist lyrics (with a song about murdering his ex-gf) - doing the rap. It had a weirdly sexy music video with that lotr guy and was also a thing that happened)
DD is 17 years old here--a baby--and he's, frankly, adorable. He notes that he's been training for 4 years (I'm so curious about what idol training looks like, tbh), which wows the host.
But the part that I think about a lot is when the host expounds at length about how beautiful and like a girl dd is. DD has a girl's hairstyle (i've had that exact hairstyle at multiple points in my life), and the host says at various points that he's "more beautiful than girls", that girls will envy him, that he is very very pretty, that if she were a man, she would fall in love with him. The basic upshot here is that much is made of his feminine looks, and I get the vibe that his styling is more femme than typical, even for an idol.
At the same time, I think about this moment of dd in a dance competition in 2011, before his debut. DD's main passion has always been dancing, and he went into hiphop dancing, as shown here. He also attempted breakdancing while younger, though an early injury apparently kept him from going that route (I swear I've heard this somewhere, but can't find where. Link me if you know).
DD was interested in the more macho-types of street dances. Hiphop isn't as dominated by men as breaking is, but it's still has more of a masculine culture than jazz or, you know, waacking.
I think a lot about a kid who wanted to spend his life dancing, who went through idol training to debut as the femme maknae of a group. It was a weird fit for him, and I think his movement away from that initial look reflects that.
At the same time, I want to go back to something I find significant about his talk show appearance.
When asked who is most popular among girls, everybody (dd included) points to dd. (A bandmate also jokes that dd is most popular among men). A 17-year-old kid who just debuted a little over a month ago with a femme style is already getting fawned over by fans and older female hosts. However weird it could be, it's gotta be a huge ego-boost at a formative time to get the positive feedback to that look.
I think (and putting on my speculation hat here) that this is important for dd's performance of gender as he gets older.
Which brings me to the next main point:
2. DD enjoyed his more feminine idol look bc he knew it made him attractive
I suspect dd came to some acceptance of the more femme styling (once he moved away from the white peony look) primarily because it got him so much fawning.
I imagine idol training goes into how to create a public persona for oneself, especially given how much idols are supposed to reveal of themselves. Letting fans feel that they're getting an intimate look at the real person, while still maintaining the privacy of their actual personal life, is a skill, and I expect it's second-nature to dd at this point given how long he's been in the industry.
This isn't to say that dd's fake or that the dd we see publicly isn't "really" him. But it is a carefully presented version of him that intentionally keeps his private life private.
There's really 2 periods where we probably see the most authentic, unfiltered dd: the early UNIQ days, when he was still getting the hang of the ent industry (though that's complicated in that he was also young and under pressure to perform a certain way and had not developed the skills/experience/cache to set limits, hence him doing a lot more cutesy stuff that he refuses to do as he gets older); and the bts footage for CQL, as he did not expect those to be so widely seen. Even the unscripted stuff like DDU and SDC allows for some intentional presentation of himself in a way the more candid bts moments did not.
That's a bit of a digression, actually, but it's important because I think this public persona, especially the idol persona, is more femme than dd would normally style himself (as in, how he would style himself if he weren't an entertainer). The result of this is that we see some contexts, such as the CQL fanmeetings where dd wears women's outfits, where that idol style is intentionally deployed. Part of the point of fanmeetings is fanservice, and dd's feminine presentation, linked as it is to his idol image, is wholly about pleasing the fans.
There's reason to believe that dd was never too much into those stylings because he intrinsically enjoyed them. He's said multiple times in interviews that he prefers going without makeup. This isn't too telling because, hey, makeup can be uncomfortable to wear. Especially stage makeup.
But there's an interesting compilation of interview clips where dd reveals his complete lack of even any interest in makeup, referring curious interviewers to talk to his makeup artist and explicitly associating makeup with women (I have looked everywhere for this. I swear I saw this compilation on YouTube but now I can't find it. This is unfortunate bc this particular video really made me think about dd's gender presentation). And of course, his attempt to do someone else's makeup was...adorable. This is not a guy who wears makeup for the joy of it. He wears it because it's part of his job.
This isn't to say that dd looks down on it. Not at all. We only have to look at his defensiveness of the idol look to gg during the bts to see this. I don't think he's at all bothered by makeup. He just accepts it as part of his career.
(I have a completely made-up story in my head about how gg's preference for no-makeup dd was a major romantic thing bc it's gg liking the real dd, not the idol persona that everybody else fawns over. And how, once dd realized that gg was paying him a compliment, it gave him big feels. This story is definitely not real)
This all is gonna lead me to my last main point:
3. DD's probably okay taking on a more masculine style now bc it fits more how he would naturally dress himself
Like millions of other people, I really dig the idol look. When I was doing my initial dive into turtledom and read about some of the Chinese censorship of idols in recent years, I was initially put out because...idol!dd!
(Ok, as a queer person, I also have big solidarity feels and stuff, but that's a whole digression)
But then I began obsessively watching browsing dd stuff on YouTube and I came around to thinking that while I love and miss idol!dd, I don't know that dd is too shook up over it.
In my view, dd sees that type of styling as a role to put on for certain performances. Now that it's out of style, so to say, he switches to something else. It goes along with some other career transitions he's making, such as focusing more on film. I think this may just let him go with a more "natural" styling (basically, how he would style himself if he weren't a celebrity).
(I do think he likes dyeing his hair fashion colors, but that's not necessarily gendered. He's had plenty of dyed hair looks that are still masc)
When I think of things like that...well, I still personally miss idol!dd because that look really works for me. But I'm not bothered on his behalf because I don't know that he feels particularly constrained by the idol crackdown (at least with regards to no longer being able to present with an idol style; there are other aspects of the politics that may feel constraining, but that's a whole other digression). If anything, it provides a good reason for him to move away from idol-dom in his career (which he'd have to do at some point as he ages).
To wrap this up, I've felt horrendously guilty that the first photo on this tumblr wasn't even of dd or gg, so i'm gonna end this with a photo of idol!dd. I'm not gonna say it's my favorite look, because it's just cruel to make me pick a single favorite. But this is one I think is pretty.
Some of the replies on my previous post left me re-evaluating, and I don't know that I was incredibly effective at what I meant to communicate (honestly, that is really frustrating for me). So I just want to clarify and maybe add some context.
I assume it goes without saying that everybody in turtleland adores dd and gg and that we think dd is a sweetie-pie (I can't conceive of being a turtle without that belief). And as a group, dd and gg's sweet moments get highlighted a lot, which I adore. These posts I have on dd are more about stuff I don't see discussed quite as much and they're not meant to encapsulate all that dd is because, wow that's a lot. For the previous post, I'd been thinking a lot about dd's mentality and how he approaches things, as seen in SDC, because his captaining style seems really distinct in a way I wanted to dig into.
Honestly, we've known dd for years at this point, and he's grown and changed throughout that time. He's been influenced by gg and by other friends and mentors. And like most people, how he acts is variable and dependent on context.
I do think dd was sometimes thoughtless when younger, but I don't think that's anything out of the ordinary for his age at the time, and I think he's grown out of it. In any case, it was never mean-spirited. Still, I think the way he expresses his feelings is pretty reserved and that he's not incredibly prone to sentimental gestures, like the gifts he sent Yang Kai. I think he can be thoughtful in that he's responsive when people indicate what they want, but I don't think he's the type to think up a gift idea on his own. Given that Yang Kai actually knows the guy and said as such, I don't think it's too far off-base to say that. I honestly think he probably gets help from gg with that sort of stuff, and he's likely to have gotten better at it as a result. But dd has never struck me as a sentimental guy.
(though with the captain gifts, I have no idea the logistics of how those worked, and I suspect, like most things on reality shows, that production assistants helped with suggestions and such)
I think he's a fantastic captain! I don't think I said that, because it's one of those things I assume goes without saying, especially as it's often said as such in turtledom. I think even back to Produce 101 when he was mentoring the young girls who were fawning over him. He did the cutesy dance with them to support them, even though he hates being cutesy (and bless him for it. That dance is a gift (and led to cute bts moments of gg poking fun at dd)). He's passionate about dance and he's passionate about helping other people improve (and learning from others). Dancers want to join his team because of that passion, and because dd just has a natural talent for it that is incredibly inspiring.
But he does like winning. He explicitly said as much himself. And that one episode I highlighted where his team lost is pretty tense. The rehearsals were tense, the performance was tense, dd's response to everything was tense. During one round, his team only gets 4 votes compared to, like 40 for the other team. I can't recall the score ever being so lopsided, especially when the losing team is full of top-tier dancers.
And dd's behavior then is incredibly relatable to me. He laughs about it, joking about how he only got 4 votes. But it's the laugh you get when you're really unhappy and kinda embarrassed but trying to keep a good, positive face on things (or at least, that's a strategy I have for those moments, and given dd's switch to serious-times when he's doing the team debrief, I think he's somewhat similar).
And dd recovers well. He has a debrief with his team. He talks to Han Geng about what his team is lacking (they specifically talk about his team performance not being thematic like the others) and realizes they need a choreographer to pull everything together and give them direction. And the very first round of recruitment, he gets a choreographer for them.
I don't think dd only likes winning. The reference to "not here to make friends" thing was a bit of rhetorical exaggeration for fun. Like I noted, he makes friends. He learns a lot and he mentors a lot, and that's definitely a big part of the draw for SDC for him. And while dd never intentionally cultivates a family atmosphere (as opposed to the other captains who explicitly tell their team that they're like a family), they come together like a family anyway. But he still likes winning, and I think he has trouble enjoying everything else as much if he's not winning.
It's not a bad thing to be competitive like that (I once got into a fight with my wife because I kept losing in thumb wars against her. I personally know when competitiveness becomes stupid). DD has a passionate drive to succeed. This is how he's managed to excel at basically everything he tries (except cooking). I think way back to the auditions in SDC 3, when dd impresses his group by being savvy about street dance gestures (like the plagiarism gesture) and by knowing how to appeal to dancers (by having them warm up with some freestyling). He quickly overcomes any doubts the dancers have based on his idol background by being genuine, sincere, and passionate and that's why people want to join his team.
*rereads all this* Hmmmm...feedback and replies are good. This is a better post.
Also, this judge is the one who always says nice things about dd. He's said at one point that dd has an extraordinary natural talent for dance even among professional dancers. He's right and he should say it. Best judge. A+ I hope they keep bringing him on.
I think you might be better off saying dd isn't superficial, not that that he isn't sentimental.
He doesn't seem to warm up to people right way, but once he does, he is very involved, he doesn't shy away from showing his feelings to them. You only need to see how his face lights up when he spots a friend, how much he laughs with people he is comfortable with.
He is the one who points out that he met gg on DDU, he clearly remembers that, it's not something an uncaring person would bother about clarifying or mentioning when asked about a first meeting. Considering he had met hundreds of people connected to his Uniq, DDU-adjacent work, the fact that he remembers that particular meeting shows he doesn't lack feelings nor that is he incapable of attaching sentimental value to a memory.
Sorry for being late, but I wanted to leave my opinion here. I think DD is sensitive in many, many ways, but when it comes to acting or making decisions I feel he try doesn't let feelings influence him. That's why he sometimes seems cold and insensitive and sometimes he seems warm and sensitive. He can be both, it will depend on the situation. Is it something he prepared for or did it happen unexpectedly? Is it something that requires focus and control or is it a casual situation? I believe that despite his sensitivity, he has a lot of emotional intelligence and, because of this, some people can be confused.
Honestly, I think most people are pretty situation-dependent in how they act, and it's not as if we see dd in his personal life much. Also, he's been a public figure since his late teens and is now mid-20s. That's a huge span of time, during a period where people go through a lot of changes. It's not a huge surprise that ppl can find examples of all sorts of behavior for him, varying from insensitive to super-squishy sensitive. (and most people are kinda contradictory in some sense). I think that would be the case for most people if we took all their public moments between the ages of 17 to 26. (And I really cannot stress enough, most people are kinda insensitive in their late teens, early twenties. It's a pretty self-absorbed time for folks)
I think dd has a lot more emotional intelligence now than he did when he was younger (again, not unusual). And I think when he was younger, he more often had that kinda "I don't care about anyone or anything" protective shell that a lot of people that age have. I don't think he's ever gonna be outwardly soppy because that's just not how he feels comfortable expressing his feelings. Doesn't mean he doesn't have feelings. He just doesn't express them in a particularly schmaltzy way. I think he values being straightforward and honest (as honest as a celebrity can be), even when it may make people feel bad. Those aren't bad values. After all, there's such a thing as being too sensitive to making people feel bad (guilty). It's refreshing to see a celebrity who is straightforward like dd is.
I'm a person who is not particularly sentimental but who mainly just talks out feelings with my partner (which is better than bottling them up inside, which was my standard earlier in life). I have my moments of being mushy, but they're few and far between and mainly there bc I know it's appreciated by others.
But mileage varies. We're all working from limited insight, so different takes are bound to happen.
hello... 😅 uhm, first of all, i truly am sorry in advance for being awkward 😭 but for once i decided not to let my awkwardness keep me from sharing (what i think/hope are) positive thoughts with a stranger on the internet, so here i am.
i'm not around much and legit only made this acc bc like you i'm a late bloomer here and needed as many outlets for my yizhan/wangxian obsession as i could get my greedy hands on, in the big year of 2023... sigh. anyway, as an avid lover of meta/analysis posts since my early fandom days began around 15 (oof 🥲) years ago, finding your acc was such a lovely surprise. i agree with your views a LOT, and really appreciate how eloquent and well-written your posts are! even more so bc there's a lot i still don't know and most of the time the source material is very hard to reach and/or understand due to the language barrier, so having other turtles to rely on to access those, even if filtered by their own biases/opinions, is wonderful. besides, such input coming from a new fan is also comforting and imo refreshing, juxtaposed with that of older fans... it keeps the fandom alive and all that jazz. it's also very brave given how ruthless some folks can be on the internet, and on this corner in particular 😮💨 it just felt like reading my own thoughts written by someone else sometimes. i gasped and nodded at your posts soooo many times djskdjdj thank you for that!
(btw you followed me back the other day and i legit fangirled irl bc ??? whatttttt 😅 i still think it was an accident but okay omg djskdjdj AHEM. sorry)
then today i logged in and read your recent posts feeling squeamish about sharing more thoughts and as much as i 100% relate to you saying that kind of attention makes you anxious, i just... idk, i had to let you know i enjoy everything you post, even though adult life has kept me from being able to read it all so far. i understand you stepping back and i respect that decision, i'm not by any means asking you to go against what you know is best for you. at the same time, i can't help but hope you'll still show up every now and then bc your posts will be missed 🥲 i guess the whole motivation behind this is that it just made me sad to think your valuable insights will be something i'm yet again late to, if that makes sense?
djskdjdj again, i'm so sorry for being awkward and weird and dropping all of this on your inbox unprovoked. you don't have to reply (or read this AT ALL omg 😭😭), in fact i'm so embarrassed by this that you'd probably have to reach me through inquiry lmaooo 💀 anyway, have a great life, thank you so much for the great job, bjyxszd etc ❤️💚💛
Oh, don't be anxious! I'm really not a big deal.
Thank you for dropping into my inbox! I love hearing from other turtles, especially relative newbies, like myself! One of my fav parts of coming out of lurking mode is getting to talk to other people. I kinda follow back anybody who follows me, cause it seems polite? I don't know tumblr etiquette. I just follow the tags when I get the chance.
I appreciate the encouragement! I try to avoid dramatics, so I'm sorry for the upset last week. The situation is largely resolved, and I am feeling more okay. I kinda backed off because I wasn't sure of my footing here in fandom as compared to others, especially as I do think I have some takes that fall outside fandom consensus. Again, I don't mean to rock any boats and I'm not invested in convincing anybody that they should have the same opinions as I do. Hearing from turtles who do want me to continue posting gave me some more confidence there.
So, yeah, I expect I'll post some more as I have time. I'd like to post more on dd (cause he's my fav). I'd also like to try to figure out gg cause that dude is so confusing to me. I do have RL stuff going on, and I don't have the time to be super-active outside of occasional posts. But I'd like keep posting stuff. At least until I get all my Yizhan thoughts out.
I wanted to drop a note bc I've had a lot of super-kind people message me this week, and I really appreciate the check-ins and such.
I was upset earlier in the week, and my wife's away on business so getting support from other turtles really helped. I took a bit of a tumblr break to step back and cool down. I'm feeling better, and though I'm unhappy with how a few things turned out, I'm no longer in the "fuck it all, leave for good" headspace.
I don't think I'm gonna post anything else any time soon, largely bc I have some travel next week and will just be busy with RL stuff. But I'd like to get some of these drafts polished up to share, so I'm open to doing that when my real life settles back down.
And bc several ppl have asked, no amount of tumblr stress would prevent me from keeping up with the boys. I adore them, and I get most of my updates from Twitter or a discord server I'm on. Even if I back away from tumblr, I'm still gonna be a turtle. 🐢🐢🐢
Some of the replies on my previous post left me re-evaluating, and I don't know that I was incredibly effective at what I meant to communicate (honestly, that is really frustrating for me). So I just want to clarify and maybe add some context.
I assume it goes without saying that everybody in turtleland adores dd and gg and that we think dd is a sweetie-pie (I can't conceive of being a turtle without that belief). And as a group, dd and gg's sweet moments get highlighted a lot, which I adore. These posts I have on dd are more about stuff I don't see discussed quite as much and they're not meant to encapsulate all that dd is because, wow that's a lot. For the previous post, I'd been thinking a lot about dd's mentality and how he approaches things, as seen in SDC, because his captaining style seems really distinct in a way I wanted to dig into.
Honestly, we've known dd for years at this point, and he's grown and changed throughout that time. He's been influenced by gg and by other friends and mentors. And like most people, how he acts is variable and dependent on context.
I do think dd was sometimes thoughtless when younger, but I don't think that's anything out of the ordinary for his age at the time, and I think he's grown out of it. In any case, it was never mean-spirited. Still, I think the way he expresses his feelings is pretty reserved and that he's not incredibly prone to sentimental gestures, like the gifts he sent Yang Kai. I think he can be thoughtful in that he's responsive when people indicate what they want, but I don't think he's the type to think up a gift idea on his own. Given that Yang Kai actually knows the guy and said as such, I don't think it's too far off-base to say that. I honestly think he probably gets help from gg with that sort of stuff, and he's likely to have gotten better at it as a result. But dd has never struck me as a sentimental guy.
(though with the captain gifts, I have no idea the logistics of how those worked, and I suspect, like most things on reality shows, that production assistants helped with suggestions and such)
I think he's a fantastic captain! I don't think I said that, because it's one of those things I assume goes without saying, especially as it's often said as such in turtledom. I think even back to Produce 101 when he was mentoring the young girls who were fawning over him. He did the cutesy dance with them to support them, even though he hates being cutesy (and bless him for it. That dance is a gift (and led to cute bts moments of gg poking fun at dd)). He's passionate about dance and he's passionate about helping other people improve (and learning from others). Dancers want to join his team because of that passion, and because dd just has a natural talent for it that is incredibly inspiring.
But he does like winning. He explicitly said as much himself. And that one episode I highlighted where his team lost is pretty tense. The rehearsals were tense, the performance was tense, dd's response to everything was tense. During one round, his team only gets 4 votes compared to, like 40 for the other team. I can't recall the score ever being so lopsided, especially when the losing team is full of top-tier dancers.
And dd's behavior then is incredibly relatable to me. He laughs about it, joking about how he only got 4 votes. But it's the laugh you get when you're really unhappy and kinda embarrassed but trying to keep a good, positive face on things (or at least, that's a strategy I have for those moments, and given dd's switch to serious-times when he's doing the team debrief, I think he's somewhat similar).
And dd recovers well. He has a debrief with his team. He talks to Han Geng about what his team is lacking (they specifically talk about his team performance not being thematic like the others) and realizes they need a choreographer to pull everything together and give them direction. And the very first round of recruitment, he gets a choreographer for them.
I don't think dd only likes winning. The reference to "not here to make friends" thing was a bit of rhetorical exaggeration for fun. Like I noted, he makes friends. He learns a lot and he mentors a lot, and that's definitely a big part of the draw for SDC for him. And while dd never intentionally cultivates a family atmosphere (as opposed to the other captains who explicitly tell their team that they're like a family), they come together like a family anyway. But he still likes winning, and I think he has trouble enjoying everything else as much if he's not winning.
It's not a bad thing to be competitive like that (I once got into a fight with my wife because I kept losing in thumb wars against her. I personally know when competitiveness becomes stupid). DD has a passionate drive to succeed. This is how he's managed to excel at basically everything he tries (except cooking). I think way back to the auditions in SDC 3, when dd impresses his group by being savvy about street dance gestures (like the plagiarism gesture) and by knowing how to appeal to dancers (by having them warm up with some freestyling). He quickly overcomes any doubts the dancers have based on his idol background by being genuine, sincere, and passionate and that's why people want to join his team.
*rereads all this* Hmmmm...feedback and replies are good. This is a better post.
Also, this judge is the one who always says nice things about dd. He's said at one point that dd has an extraordinary natural talent for dance even among professional dancers. He's right and he should say it. Best judge. A+ I hope they keep bringing him on.
I think you might be better off saying dd isn't superficial, not that that he isn't sentimental.
He doesn't seem to warm up to people right way, but once he does, he is very involved, he doesn't shy away from showing his feelings to them. You only need to see how his face lights up when he spots a friend, how much he laughs with people he is comfortable with.
He is the one who points out that he met gg on DDU, he clearly remembers that, it's not something an uncaring person would bother about clarifying or mentioning when asked about a first meeting. Considering he had met hundreds of people connected to his Uniq, DDU-adjacent work, the fact that he remembers that particular meeting shows he doesn't lack feelings nor that is he incapable of attaching sentimental value to a memory.
I guess I'm not understanding how people are reading into the term "sentimental". To me, it doesn't imply that he lacks feelings or is uncaring at all. My understanding of the term is more that it's about somebody who is excessively nostalgic or emotional about things. The "excessively" is kinda important, otherwise sentimental as a descriptor doesn't mean much at all because most people feel and care about things. Some people are especially, um, mushy (to pull a word from my mom) about expressing those feelings. I don't think dd is one of them.
It's clear dd cares a lot and feels very deeply and passionately. But he's not...um...Hallmark gift card mushy? I honestly don't know how better to articulate this.
(Honestly, I literally looked up the definition for "sentimental" to check myself because I'm a little confused at how people are taking it and usually when multiple people disagree with you, you've probably missed something. I really don't see it though)
Bruh there's videos of him tearing up, openly wiping his eyes, in public, on stage, not related to him acting, how you can say he isn't sentimental is beyond me.
His modern dance is a beautifully choreographed expression of his feelings.
There are other sentiments other than being visibly "mushy", or clingy or kawaii or overly doting.
I'm happy to agree to disagree on this. Not sure what else to tell you. From what I've seen, especially in SDC (which is where my attention has been lately), he's just not sentimental relative to the other captains.
But there's room for disagreement without being rude about it. Neither one of us have met dd (I assume), so we're bound to have different takes based on what he shows us in public.
Hey y'all. I'm probably not gonna post anymore of the DD posts I have in drafts. I don't think I'm a good enough communicator to get across what I'm trying to say with any of it, and I think I just might have some takes that are outside fandom consensus, and I don't want to kick up a stir. That type of engagement stresses me out and there's nothing groundbreaking enough in the posts to make the stress worth it. The bts stuff I posted before is much more worthwhile. I'll leave it at that.
Sorry. (I wouldn't bother with a post like this bc it's a little drama-llama but I didn't want to leave people hanging after mentioning other posts before)
Some of the replies on my previous post left me re-evaluating, and I don't know that I was incredibly effective at what I meant to communicate (honestly, that is really frustrating for me). So I just want to clarify and maybe add some context.
I assume it goes without saying that everybody in turtleland adores dd and gg and that we think dd is a sweetie-pie (I can't conceive of being a turtle without that belief). And as a group, dd and gg's sweet moments get highlighted a lot, which I adore. These posts I have on dd are more about stuff I don't see discussed quite as much and they're not meant to encapsulate all that dd is because, wow that's a lot. For the previous post, I'd been thinking a lot about dd's mentality and how he approaches things, as seen in SDC, because his captaining style seems really distinct in a way I wanted to dig into.
Honestly, we've known dd for years at this point, and he's grown and changed throughout that time. He's been influenced by gg and by other friends and mentors. And like most people, how he acts is variable and dependent on context.
I do think dd was sometimes thoughtless when younger, but I don't think that's anything out of the ordinary for his age at the time, and I think he's grown out of it. In any case, it was never mean-spirited. Still, I think the way he expresses his feelings is pretty reserved and that he's not incredibly prone to sentimental gestures, like the gifts he sent Yang Kai. I think he can be thoughtful in that he's responsive when people indicate what they want, but I don't think he's the type to think up a gift idea on his own. Given that Yang Kai actually knows the guy and said as such, I don't think it's too far off-base to say that. I honestly think he probably gets help from gg with that sort of stuff, and he's likely to have gotten better at it as a result. But dd has never struck me as a sentimental guy.
(though with the captain gifts, I have no idea the logistics of how those worked, and I suspect, like most things on reality shows, that production assistants helped with suggestions and such)
I think he's a fantastic captain! I don't think I said that, because it's one of those things I assume goes without saying, especially as it's often said as such in turtledom. I think even back to Produce 101 when he was mentoring the young girls who were fawning over him. He did the cutesy dance with them to support them, even though he hates being cutesy (and bless him for it. That dance is a gift (and led to cute bts moments of gg poking fun at dd)). He's passionate about dance and he's passionate about helping other people improve (and learning from others). Dancers want to join his team because of that passion, and because dd just has a natural talent for it that is incredibly inspiring.
But he does like winning. He explicitly said as much himself. And that one episode I highlighted where his team lost is pretty tense. The rehearsals were tense, the performance was tense, dd's response to everything was tense. During one round, his team only gets 4 votes compared to, like 40 for the other team. I can't recall the score ever being so lopsided, especially when the losing team is full of top-tier dancers.
And dd's behavior then is incredibly relatable to me. He laughs about it, joking about how he only got 4 votes. But it's the laugh you get when you're really unhappy and kinda embarrassed but trying to keep a good, positive face on things (or at least, that's a strategy I have for those moments, and given dd's switch to serious-times when he's doing the team debrief, I think he's somewhat similar).
And dd recovers well. He has a debrief with his team. He talks to Han Geng about what his team is lacking (they specifically talk about his team performance not being thematic like the others) and realizes they need a choreographer to pull everything together and give them direction. And the very first round of recruitment, he gets a choreographer for them.
I don't think dd only likes winning. The reference to "not here to make friends" thing was a bit of rhetorical exaggeration for fun. Like I noted, he makes friends. He learns a lot and he mentors a lot, and that's definitely a big part of the draw for SDC for him. And while dd never intentionally cultivates a family atmosphere (as opposed to the other captains who explicitly tell their team that they're like a family), they come together like a family anyway. But he still likes winning, and I think he has trouble enjoying everything else as much if he's not winning.
It's not a bad thing to be competitive like that (I once got into a fight with my wife because I kept losing in thumb wars against her. I personally know when competitiveness becomes stupid). DD has a passionate drive to succeed. This is how he's managed to excel at basically everything he tries (except cooking). I think way back to the auditions in SDC 3, when dd impresses his group by being savvy about street dance gestures (like the plagiarism gesture) and by knowing how to appeal to dancers (by having them warm up with some freestyling). He quickly overcomes any doubts the dancers have based on his idol background by being genuine, sincere, and passionate and that's why people want to join his team.
*rereads all this* Hmmmm...feedback and replies are good. This is a better post.
Also, this judge is the one who always says nice things about dd. He's said at one point that dd has an extraordinary natural talent for dance even among professional dancers. He's right and he should say it. Best judge. A+ I hope they keep bringing him on.
I think you might be better off saying dd isn't superficial, not that that he isn't sentimental.
He doesn't seem to warm up to people right way, but once he does, he is very involved, he doesn't shy away from showing his feelings to them. You only need to see how his face lights up when he spots a friend, how much he laughs with people he is comfortable with.
He is the one who points out that he met gg on DDU, he clearly remembers that, it's not something an uncaring person would bother about clarifying or mentioning when asked about a first meeting. Considering he had met hundreds of people connected to his Uniq, DDU-adjacent work, the fact that he remembers that particular meeting shows he doesn't lack feelings nor that is he incapable of attaching sentimental value to a memory.
I guess I'm not understanding how people are reading into the term "sentimental". To me, it doesn't imply that he lacks feelings or is uncaring at all. My understanding of the term is more that it's about somebody who is excessively nostalgic or emotional about things. The "excessively" is kinda important, otherwise sentimental as a descriptor doesn't mean much at all because most people feel and care about things. Some people are especially, um, mushy (to pull a word from my mom) about expressing those feelings. I don't think dd is one of them.
It's clear dd cares a lot and feels very deeply and passionately. But he's not...um...Hallmark gift card mushy? I honestly don't know how better to articulate this.
(Honestly, I literally looked up the definition for "sentimental" to check myself because I'm a little confused at how people are taking it and usually when multiple people disagree with you, you've probably missed something. I really don't see it though)
Some of the replies on my previous post left me re-evaluating, and I don't know that I was incredibly effective at what I meant to communicate (honestly, that is really frustrating for me). So I just want to clarify and maybe add some context.
I assume it goes without saying that everybody in turtleland adores dd and gg and that we think dd is a sweetie-pie (I can't conceive of being a turtle without that belief). And as a group, dd and gg's sweet moments get highlighted a lot, which I adore. These posts I have on dd are more about stuff I don't see discussed quite as much and they're not meant to encapsulate all that dd is because, wow that's a lot. For the previous post, I'd been thinking a lot about dd's mentality and how he approaches things, as seen in SDC, because his captaining style seems really distinct in a way I wanted to dig into.
Honestly, we've known dd for years at this point, and he's grown and changed throughout that time. He's been influenced by gg and by other friends and mentors. And like most people, how he acts is variable and dependent on context.
I do think dd was sometimes thoughtless when younger, but I don't think that's anything out of the ordinary for his age at the time, and I think he's grown out of it. In any case, it was never mean-spirited. Still, I think the way he expresses his feelings is pretty reserved and that he's not incredibly prone to sentimental gestures, like the gifts he sent Yang Kai. I think he can be thoughtful in that he's responsive when people indicate what they want, but I don't think he's the type to think up a gift idea on his own. Given that Yang Kai actually knows the guy and said as such, I don't think it's too far off-base to say that. I honestly think he probably gets help from gg with that sort of stuff, and he's likely to have gotten better at it as a result. But dd has never struck me as a sentimental guy.
(though with the captain gifts, I have no idea the logistics of how those worked, and I suspect, like most things on reality shows, that production assistants helped with suggestions and such)
I think he's a fantastic captain! I don't think I said that, because it's one of those things I assume goes without saying, especially as it's often said as such in turtledom. I think even back to Produce 101 when he was mentoring the young girls who were fawning over him. He did the cutesy dance with them to support them, even though he hates being cutesy (and bless him for it. That dance is a gift (and led to cute bts moments of gg poking fun at dd)). He's passionate about dance and he's passionate about helping other people improve (and learning from others). Dancers want to join his team because of that passion, and because dd just has a natural talent for it that is incredibly inspiring.
But he does like winning. He explicitly said as much himself. And that one episode I highlighted where his team lost is pretty tense. The rehearsals were tense, the performance was tense, dd's response to everything was tense. During one round, his team only gets 4 votes compared to, like 40 for the other team. I can't recall the score ever being so lopsided, especially when the losing team is full of top-tier dancers.
And dd's behavior then is incredibly relatable to me. He laughs about it, joking about how he only got 4 votes. But it's the laugh you get when you're really unhappy and kinda embarrassed but trying to keep a good, positive face on things (or at least, that's a strategy I have for those moments, and given dd's switch to serious-times when he's doing the team debrief, I think he's somewhat similar).
And dd recovers well. He has a debrief with his team. He talks to Han Geng about what his team is lacking (they specifically talk about his team performance not being thematic like the others) and realizes they need a choreographer to pull everything together and give them direction. And the very first round of recruitment, he gets a choreographer for them.
I don't think dd only likes winning. The reference to "not here to make friends" thing was a bit of rhetorical exaggeration for fun. Like I noted, he makes friends. He learns a lot and he mentors a lot, and that's definitely a big part of the draw for SDC for him. And while dd never intentionally cultivates a family atmosphere (as opposed to the other captains who explicitly tell their team that they're like a family), they come together like a family anyway. But he still likes winning, and I think he has trouble enjoying everything else as much if he's not winning.
It's not a bad thing to be competitive like that (I once got into a fight with my wife because I kept losing in thumb wars against her. I personally know when competitiveness becomes stupid). DD has a passionate drive to succeed. This is how he's managed to excel at basically everything he tries (except cooking). I think way back to the auditions in SDC 3, when dd impresses his group by being savvy about street dance gestures (like the plagiarism gesture) and by knowing how to appeal to dancers (by having them warm up with some freestyling). He quickly overcomes any doubts the dancers have based on his idol background by being genuine, sincere, and passionate and that's why people want to join his team.
*rereads all this* Hmmmm...feedback and replies are good. This is a better post.
Also, this judge is the one who always says nice things about dd. He's said at one point that dd has an extraordinary natural talent for dance even among professional dancers. He's right and he should say it. Best judge. A+ I hope they keep bringing him on.
Hi there! I warned y'all that I might post more and I've been watching SDC so I wanted to compile my massive load of DD thoughts. Apparently, I think about dd a lot.
I've struggle with how to organize these thoughts because they're so scattered and there are just a whole bunch of them. So I decided to center them around moments I think about a lot. Not necessarily fun dd moments, though some of them are fun. But just...moments that I feel tell me a lot about dd.
As a disclaimer, I'm making up a bunch of nonsense about dd as a person, but I don't actually know him and you shouldn't take anything I say seriously. I'm very likely to be wrong about most of it. In fact, if dd somehow managed to read this humble post, he would probably roll his eyes. And you know what? It would be an honor for him to have done so.
There'll be a few posts. There are three others in drafts right now, though I may combine two of them. We'll see. But I'm starting out with this one just because it was done first.
I'm at around ep 8 of SDC4, and I think the only way to watch subtitled versions of SDC5 are by downloading an app that Google won't let me download because of region restrictions (and then paying a subscription fee). Needless to say, I probably won't be able to watch SDC5 anytime soon. :(
(those episodes are sooooo looonnngggg)
There's an episode in SDC4 when the captains have picked 4 leaders to start off their teams. They put together a rehearsal battle to show the other contestants the captain's style and help make decisions during the next recruitment segment.
DD picks 4 top dancers as his leaders. These are fantastic dancers, specifically battle dancers. And they do horribly in the rehearsal battle because they're not used to dancing routine, there are no choreographers so while their performance was highly technical, it wasn't really entertaining or meaningful, and the team itself just didn't cohere because these are all people who specialize in battling alone.
DD has a little meltdown while his team loses, and it's kinda uncomfortable to watch. He says in a debrief with his team afterward that he's one of those people that likes winning (which, yeah, duh, DD).
I think a lot about DD's initial strategy. It seems straightforward. Get the best dancers. Have the best team. Work hard. Win.
DD's not a deep thinker. I don't mean he's stupid, because he's actually pretty smart and quick to pick up on things. But he just doesn't see the need to introspect or dwell on things. He strikes me as the type of person who might go through some difficult event and come out the other side wanting to just move on because, "It's in the past. Why bother thinking about it?"
(I think he is getting more introspective as he gets older, as evidenced with his performance of Like the Sunshine. I think that's typical as one ages though)
I'm also struck by the feedback he gives as a captain. He usually makes pretty detailed comments about the technical aspects of the dance, and sometimes, with the more thematic pieces, he'll just outline the story of it. He's pretty literal and straightforward in his thinking.
In any case, dd stands out among the captains for his emphasis on winning. The captains of the other teams cultivate a family atmosphere and often make an effort to emphasize having fun over winning (dd emphasizes fun...as long as his team is winning). The other captains will break down in tears when they have to eliminate dancers, and they'll give nothing but praise to the dancers.
DD is the prototypical "not here to make friends" competitor (though he does actually make friends). One of the most common comments dd gets from dancers or judges is that he works really hard and is a perfectionist with his technical performance. (As a fangirl, I love hearing other people remark on how impressive dd is. I'm all like, "Damn right, that's my bb!"). Dd has high expectations of himself and of the dancers in his team, and he'll criticize the dancers if he feels they fell short.
It's not mean-spirited but it is blunt and is something that the other captains don't do. DD will point out mistakes and be outspoken when he's disappointed with a performance. He also doesn't cry when he has to eliminate someone. He obviously doesn't like doing it, and I do think his style of doing it quickly without the anxiety of drawing it out is kinder. But it also fits in with his decisive, direct way of doing things.
I think about this all in connection with the bts of gg saying he prefers men without makeup. DD gets incredibly defensive, misconstruing what gg's saying as a slight against idols. It's a funny bts, because gg's clearly trying to pay dd a compliment, but dd doesn't even realize this because he's so caught up in defensiveness.
But the defensiveness tells us that dd's felt belittled and looked down on for his idol background, I think especially in some of his hobbies and other activities. Professional dancing, motorcycling racing, skateboarding. His being an idol has made people not take him seriously (I think that's what happened at the beginning of SDC3 when dd got the fewest towels of all the captains from the start).
I think that can be frustrating because dd's initial interest as a teen boy was dancing. I don't know all the decision-making that went into him going off to get trained by Yuehua as an idol, but doing so ironically made it harder for him to get respect from the professional dancers that he admires.
That's why dd works so damn hard, often to the point of overwork. He's demanding of his team just as he's demanding of himself. This is a guy who puts himself into the hospital with how much he works (and then forgets about it afterward). He's wearing himself out in trying to prove himself, and I'm glad that he recently actually took a day off when he was sick. GG's a good influence.
This all takes us to another DD moment, one that is more fun to watch, and that is dd's whole thing with the waacker, Xiao Bao. During a battle, Xiao Bao touches the back of dd's head, and dd immediately stands up and grabs Xiao Bao, keeping a hold of him even as he tries to dance away. Then there's some minor waacking and, um, lip-licking from dd.
When asked at hotpot, dd explains that he was trying to get Xiao Bao to run out his time by keeping a hold of him so he couldn't dance. By touching him, Xiao Bao had challenged dd and dd responded according to street dance rules. DD seems confused by others' confusion because it's self-explanatory to him.
It is just...so very dd to be so single-minded about a thing that he doesn't even realize how incredibly gay it looked. Just, immensely fantastically gay. (I'll get back to this in another post, but I'm focusing elsewhere here)
Honestly, he's sometimes come across as being on the spectrum, though that may well be me overidentifying with some traits. But he has his special interests and while he may be generally quiet, he will start happily rambling if asked about motorbikes or legos or skateboarding (or if plopped down next to gg). He's incredibly fidgety and has a weird thing with stroking tassels.
I know people on the spectrum are more often associated with sensitivity to lights and noise, but there is variation in that. Some folks tend towards the opposite and end up being thrill-seekers.
Some of his mannerisms and social interactions ping me as spectrum-y. During the "JC's fake butt" bts conversation with the rest of the cast, gg characterizes dd as the type to bluntly go up to JC and ask him about the fake butt. He's probably not wrong.
In the bts, dd also has several moments of not being properly romantic by gg's standards or of being a little mean to gg and then apologizing later. This may be more of a young man thing than a spectrum thing, though. IME, guys that age are more prone to that sort of thoughtless behavior than guys who are older.
In any case, dd's reputation as aloof is surface-deep, as seen when he's comfortable with people. He's able to joke and play around with others once he warms up to them. I know gg is often seen as uniquely able to soften dd up, and I do think dd is distinctly more affectionate/playful with gg. But it's a difference in degrees. DD also seems comfortable with the other DDU hosts, with his UNIQ brothers, sometimes with the other SDC captains (though not as often), with certain dancers (like Bouboo and Yang Kai).
Heck, Yang Kai even lampshades this in SDC S4. The captains are recruiting their team members and they send gifts to the dancers to woo them. Even though Yang Kai is a definite joiner on dd's team, dd sends him a framed photo of the two of them from Yang Kai's win the previous season. He also gifts Yang Kai a charm for his newborn son. Yang Kai is touched and he comments that he wouldn't expect these gifts from dd because dd just doesn't express his emotions like this usually. (I wonder if dd had some help in choosing the gifts, because all his gifts are incredibly thoughtful in a very uncharacteristic way (sorry, dd))
So, yeah, I have so many thoughts about how dd shows him feelings. I'm not super-attached to the autism spectrum thing, so don't take it too seriously. Hell, don't take any of this seriously. I've never met the guy. I'm just wildly extrapolating from translated glimpses of him.
Throughout this whole dive into turtle world, I've been very conscious of just how LITTLE access to information I have. I'm relying so heavily on English translations and platforms, and most of these are from turtles, so I'm fully aware I'm getting a biased perspective.
I've tried to read stuff from solos or even just neutral third-parties. The neutral parties don't have much depth of information, though, and I found solos heavy on accusations and declarations but light on actual...evidence. And they sometimes use some really nasty rhetoric against the idea that gg and dd might be gay.
Don't get me wrong, turtles get weird too. There's plenty of clearly false rumors, deceptively edited videos, silly stretches of logic, weird ideas of what how people in a relationship would act, etc. But there's at least enough English-speaking turtles that I can find some who are giving open and, as far as I can tell, accurate information (honestly, I find tumblr turtledom better at that then other platforms). I haven't really found a similar pocket of solo fans.
I'm also aware that there's always going to be a limit on how much I can know. I don't speak the language, so I'm always relying on translators. I have limited access to Weibo (even putting aside the language barrier, I'm in text confirmation limbo in actually getting an account), and I have little familiarity with the culture. I don't get a lot of the jokes or references, and stuff may strike me, an English-speaking American, differently than it would someone in China.
Add on top of that the fact that I'm trying to find out purposely obscured information about two celebrities, and, yeah, I'm fully aware that I'm on unsteady ground here. I can do my best, but I'm never going to know anything for certain.
But I've become okay with that.
It took a while. The dissatisfaction with the unknown (and unknowable) is what drove a lot of my early fixation and subsequent fall into the turtle pit. But now, especially after laying out my thoughts, I've reached a zen place with it. I'm 100% certain ggdd were together during filming/promo, and I'm 95% certain they're still together (I had this at 85% originally, but then the whole dd being sick and gg changing his schedule thing happened and I'm just...welp, guess I'm in this confidence interval, then).
Just having that certainty means I can enjoy updates from them without anguishing about "proof" or uncertainty. Oh, gg took the day off on dd's birthday? That's really sweet! I'm not gonna fuss about if it's coincidence ENOUGH to convince me, because I'm already convinced. It's a good place to be.
I typically don't care about celebrities. In fact, I've long been bewildered by celebrity culture here in the US, and I've often been actively annoyed when people assume/expect me to have opinions on things celebrities do. I'm the nerd who doesn't get why the actors get all the attention when the writer or director would be much more interesting.
So the fact that I've gone all fangirlish over two celebrities is bizarre to me, and I appreciate the irony. Well done, me. I attribute some of it to just being able to watch the bts and see their early interactions play out like a story. I find stories compelling, and both gg and dd are charismatic, attractive and have great chemistry. Whatever disdain I have for celebs, I do love a romance.
In my foray into the ggdd world, though, I've also had to learn more about c-ent, and y'all. It's nuts. Like, US entertainment is nuts too, but c-ent ratchets it up to 11. I've been in fandom a long time, and I thought I'd seen some weird stuff, but it's got nothing on c-ent. Just wrapping my head around the culture these guys are in took a lot of learning.
But I appreciate being able to dive into this culture and this country, because I knew very little about China beyond the antagonistic politics. It's been refreshing to get a view on life on the ground in China to humanize the folks there and get a clearer picture of the country.
I started this thing bc I had been spending so much time on Youtube watching clips, and I had thoughts and opinions and nowhere to put them. I already had a tumblr that I use to lurk on some fandoms and I had started following turtles too. I figured tumblr would be a decent place to splurge out my thoughts, so I set up a throwaway account to do so.
I get the vibe that a lot of new turtles come to bjyx through the same route I took? They watch The Untamed on Netflix. They get curious about the show and start watching some clips on YT. Next thing you know, they have 3 playlists full of purported "proof of love" and they need a whiteboard to connect everything together and their wife thinks they've gone completely bonkers supports them in all their oddities.
Like, I was really confused by turtles at first. I was just trying to watch bts videos on YouTube and I didn't know what bjyx meant, but the videos with the label were weird and had strange disclaimers that they were "only for turtles" and I had no clue what that even meant.
My confusion continued as I tried to read more. The fake story disclaimer convention is hella confusing as an outsider, and my first impression was that turtles were kinda crazy. The videos I saw gave overviews of candies without context, and some of them explicitly said they were proof of Yizhan love while still having that fake story disclaimer. Basically, it was a big confusing environment, and it's why I resisted buying into bjyx so hard for so long. It all seemed delulu.
But in reading more, I guess part of that is the point? Recognizing that gg and dd are in a vulnerable position should their relationship ever come out, having so much noise to muddy the waters makes a twisted, clownish sense. I don't know who came up with that convention or if it just kinda happened (is it a normal thing in c-ent? I don't know enough about celebrity fandoms), but hats off, I guess.
With the supertopic recently hitting 4 million active fans, there's something heartening about such a depth of support for the guys. I'm not naive enough to think all 4 million (plus international fans) are allies to LGBT folk in general, but it surely means something to ggdd to have that sort of support for their relationship. Honestly, it means something to me, as a random gay chick on the other side of the world, to see a gay couple get that kinda of support behind them.
I started watching the bts because I was afraid there'd be a lot of cynical homophobia on the set or some evidence of all the male cast being icked out by the whole thing. Instead, I got gg, who was so passionate about WWX being gay. I love that everybody knew they were telling a love story with as explicitly as they could get away with. I love that the guys wanted more Wangxian scenes and that the cast and crew made "everyday is everyday" jokes in a non-mocking way. I'm glad that the whole shoot seemed like such a positive environment for the cast and crew to being themselves and tell a type of story that they may not be able to be involved with ever again.
So, yes, this is my zen turtle place. When I set up a soapbox for myself, I didn't think too much about the fact that people would respond, but I'm so grateful to have had a chance to talk to some other turtles! Everybody is lovely and thank you for sharing my enthusiasm.
Like I said in the beginning, I don't have the time to keep super-active in the long-term. I had intended to write up my thoughts and poof away. But I do also plan to keep up with gg and dd and turtles, so instead I'm just gonna leave off with the potential for further posts down the line.
I'm not gonna be incredibly active, so please don't expect frequent updates or interactions from me. But if I have more Yizhan thoughts I'll pop up again with a post (I mean, I do have lots more thoughts, but nothing energizing enough to write about), or I'll leave a comment somewhere if I have something I simply must say. I'm also open to responding to asks about the timeline or anything else. And if I ever do stumble across anything groundbreaking with regards to the timeline, I'll probably add that in, because I'm particular about things being complete.
So thanks for being so welcoming! It's been a joy to clown around and make up completely fictional stories with everybody here. 🤡🐢🙇🏼
Second and final addendum for rn! This covers the translated bts clips for June that I found. Sadly, the playlist did not have July or Aug, so I can't go over those. If I ever do find July and Aug, I'll try to add it on.
As before, the timeline posts are already updated. I'm just highlighting some things here for those who don't want to hunt for the updates. Also, I tried to clean up some of the formatting but y'all, the formatting on Tumblr is just weird. I can't figure it out and I'm not gonna invest the time to do so, so I've done my best!
I can see where the WZC/GG pairing came from. GG and WZC seem quite close, often playful, and similarly physically affectionate to ggdd. Their dynamic is different, but I can def see how people could pull together a compilation of their bts clips for CPFs. (Not saying they were a real couple, like ggdd.)
Madam Jin did not seem to realize she was cast in a bl adaption.
There's much mentioned of dd's afterglow on 6.19 after the Dragon Boat Festival date, but I've never seen anyone mention that GG is also in a really great mood the next day. His first scene is in the forest with JC and JL, and he's all smiles and says, "I'm so happy this early morning. I really love my team."
JC says "Happy? What nonsense!" For some reason, this sets gg off on the giggles.
Needless to say, GG had his own afterglow.
Also on 6.19, there's this cute exchange between gg and the older lady producer (?), who is also from Chongqing:
Crewmember: So many beauties come from Chongqing.
GG: I'm beautiful.
Producer lady: More beautiful than me?
GG: How can that be? Can't compare!
And then, a couple days later on 6.23, when dd is still gone, gg is in a hellishly rotten mood. He's visibly moody and unresponsive to xl and JC, both of whom try to cheer him up. At one point, he asks someone (his assistant?) if he has any crying scenes that day. And later he says, "Remember this feeling. After a month, when filming, definitely will..." I think he says something more to XL here, but I guess it was too quiet for the translator to hear. The implication to me is that he's gonna try to bring up the experience of his feelings in later scenes when WWX is having similar feelings.
Not everything with regards to the boys has to be about ggdd, so it's possible that gg's bad mood is bc of something else going on in his life. Family, friends, something with his company, politics, a stranger being a jerk, whatever. DD's one possibility among many. I did check out what dd was doing on 6.23 and 6.22, and he's on Produce 101, where he looks as DD (with a mullet) as ever. But there aren't any bts or unscripted clips of him where he might reveal a similar mood, so it's hard to say anything.
So basically, make of gg's bad mood what you will. It could be literally anything.
I need to talk about JC's fake butt
So the clip on 6.25, with JZX, Mianmian, dd, XL, and gg all chatting starts with them talking about JC wearing a "fake butt". I'm guessing butt padding? Some highlights:
DD is confused because he's "not even wearing jeans", to which gg asks if it makes sense to wear a fake butt in jeans.
The "reason" why JC wears this is apparently only known to XL and GG. XL refuses to explain.
GG says if she doesn't explain, dd will just walk up to JC and ask him, "JC, you wear a fake butt?"
Poor WZC did seem a bit put-upon on the set.
Also, unrelated, dd thinks sweat is sexy.
Also, the nasal spray that got passed around: looked sus, but not actually that sus. It's a Thai herbal nasal inhaler, which apparently looks a lot like people doing some uppers. (So much so that gg chastises the cameraman for filming it and XL turns her back to do it)
Also also, gg's rotten mood is gone. The clip on 6.23 of him being in a bad mood is only about 5 min long, and there's only a 45sec clip for 6.24. So basically, we have no idea what might have cheered him up and there are almost a full 2 days of stuff we know nothing about.
one reason why devil’s tl seems unlikely to me are gg’s fanmeet tips about confessing to someone you like. if we assume that he was talking about his experience with dd, “show up around them everyday” and “be more fun/play with them” before confessing perfectly fits TU shooting period. with their separate busy schedules they just wouldn't have had time (nor reason) to be around each other that often before TU happened. btw, thank you sm for your tl posts!
Hi!
I hadn't thought about that, but it's a fair point. I think the Devil's Timeline is vague about when and how the two presumably met. But the earliest I've ever seen was when at least dd was already in ent, so I can't imagine he would have the luxury of experiencing anything like that with gg unless they were cast in something together.
On the other hand, I have no idea what his schedule was like prior to TU. Maybe there was a stretch of unaccounted-for time where something like that could have happened.
But that's drawing speculation on top of more speculation, which starts getting just kinda fanficcy, in my mind.
Personally, I think if there's any accuracy to the Devil's Timeline, it would be where dd and gg are not in a committed relationship prior to filming. Maybe they only chat on WeChat. Maybe they have a FWB relationship. Maybe less than that. Maybe they just hooked up a couple times. In any of those cases, the main romantic happenings would still be during TU filming.
