seeing people ship Bob and Yelena together confuses me to the highest degree so:
why “boblena” makes no sense to me: a list
1. yelena and bob have a familial/platonic relationship.
a HUGE part of yelena’s character, especially in thunderbolts, is the loss she’s experienced. that’s why she’s so hesitant to become close to anyone.
her greatest loss? her sister, nat aka black widow.
nat protected yelena from a very young age and yelena feels a lot of guilt for not being able to protect her the same way, as she wasn’t even there when nat died.
so naturally when she meets bob, someone that she sees a lot of herself in, she wants to protect him. not because she’s attracted to him or in love with him, but because she’s trying to make up for past regrets by protecting someone the way she wishes she could have protected her sister. emphasis on SISTER.
2. yelena is not attracted to men.
if the haircut and eyeliner weren’t evidence enough, florence pugh herself makes jokes about this, a specific example being when she said in an interview that she would want to go to a gay bar with yelena.
she is the definition of a masc lesbian. i can’t even imagine her kissing a man in my head.
3. they have the same damn haircut like cmon man
—
if none of these points appeal to you then i would love to hear the other side of the story because i just genuinely don’t understand where it even comes from
Every reason you mentioned is actual nonsense and so subjective is cringy. So I will say this as someone who did not consider Boblena as a ship when I first saw Thunderbolts*, but fell in love with the ship eventually.
So let do this point for point, okay? Not even gonna try to be objective or cordial (and it may turned into a rant) because I'm actually tired and fed up of it all, and, unlike you, I'm actually going to back my arguments with actual evidence and not just use vibes and feelings.
1. yelena and bob have a familial/platonic relationship.
I think that you are mostly completely objectively incorrect because I hate classifying the bond of two people who are close and/or have a mutual understanding with each other as purely familial/siblings as it feels as if you are taking away value from that relationship (actually from both types) and diminishing what those people mean to each other by sibling-zoning them as if there wasn't other ways in how people relate, care and love each other.
As the eldest of my siblings, I refused to acknowledge any close relationship between two characters as siblings (unless explicitly and directly established in the text, which this is not) as you are subestimating how close siblings are, if they are at all, because it's not the same and it's not even close, there are differences between the bonds designated by family and the one you choose by yourself.
To be considered siblings they should qualify in one of these categories:
They need to actually be related like Shuri and T'Challa, Sam and Sarah Wilson, Quill and Mantis, Shang-Chi and Xialing, Pietro and Wanda, Tommy and Billy, Kamala and Aamir, Sue and Johnny.
Were raised together as siblings/adoptive siblings and bc of that have a long history with each like Natasha and Yelena, Gamora and Nebula, Thor and Loki.
Honorary mentions to Tony and Rhodey, Steve and Bucky, Clint and Natasha, Carol and Maria, who are close to each other (aka been best friends for many years) and there is a 50/50 on some people shipping them and others that consider them more of a sibling-type relationships, but still knowing that they were close, when both people in these pairs were and considered family because of the historyand years they shared with each other.
Plus after Yelena promised Bob that they'll stick together from now, I wouldn't wish them the fates of most these sibling duos, whether it's death (Natasha and Yelena, T'Challa and Shuri, Thor and Loki, Pietro and Wanda, Gamora and Nebula), or separation (Shang-Chi and Xialing, Billy and Tommy, Quill and Mantis, and also because of timeline shenanigans Thor and Loki, and Nebula and Gamora), and I get it, it mirrors real life, siblings go their separate ways and follow their own paths, and tragedy will strike and one will always leave before the other. Sue and Johnny are a special case because they are on the same team, but still each of them have their own lives. But that's not the point of their promise, the point is that they'll stay for each other, even if no one else did before.
Bob and Yelena have none of those points to indicate them a siblings or sibling-like. They were literally born in different continents as he is from Sarasota Springs in Florida, and she was born either in Russia or in an undisclosed Eastern-European country. So they are not blood related, they were not raised together, and, as we see their first meeting in the film, they don't have a histoy that spans years.
These two are in their early to mid 30's and have know each other for a few hours at best before getting separated for the first time and get reunited briefly in the Watchtower before the Sentry fight, and then separated again because of said fight and finally reuniting, once and for all in The Void's shame rooms. So, yeah, I don't see an actual reason to see these two as sibling and see their ship as pseudo-incest, other than to make people feel ashamed about the ship they like by making it seem problematic and silenced those who like it because you feel it threatens your headcanon and/or your ship.
Even in the beginning, when they met in the vault, these two were strangers of a similar age, if not the same age, who formed an instant connection and found some kind of understanding with each other.
Do you expect two adults in their 30's who have not known each other for long to see each other as siblings, even if both had a very intimate connection with each other almost from the beginning? Of course not.
Even so, these two wanted to help and protect the other almost from the get go ergo is something equal between them, they were protecting and trying to protect the other during the runtime of the film. Because Yelena is not the only one doing the proctecting, even if it feels that way.
Obviously, Yelena feels protective of Bob because as far as she knew when they met, he was a civilian stuck in a death trap made for four covert shadow ops agents, and one person had already died, and continous doing so after they form a connection and he has seen her shame room. Yelena does this because even if she is not a good person, she has a good heart.
Bob wanted to be able to help and be of service since the beginning, and he returns the favor (or, at least, tries to): when he sacrifices himself so the other three can escape; when he covers her and then tries grabs something to defend Yelena and himself when the things in the attic begin attacking them in his shame room; and when Yelena gets hurt by The Void, he calls out to it to don't hurt her, and this is what also prompts him to attack it, even if he fails to really do something in last two times.
Also, I think that Bob is the first person to protect Yelena in this film against something when he covers and holds her in his shame room, the same Yelena who never really had someone to protect her (Yes, I know Nat did in the Black Widow film)
Because, as much she loves them, even her fake family didn't really do that and added to her issues: Natasha left the Red Room and hope for the best for the others, including her; Alexei returned them to Dreykov as children, and didn't contact Yelena for a year before the events of the film; and Melina, helped create the chemical that was used to brainwash the Widows (Yelena included), and it's MIA for the moment.
So, yeah, it's both of them doing (or trying to do) the proctecting.
And, at this point in time, Yelena it's not just depressed because of Natasha's loss, even if it's a major reason (Nat has been dead for almost five years by now) and she has lost her purpose, is battling an addiction and she is going through life without rhyme nor reason in that void she feels inside because, well, as she said, after the not-break up during her talk with Alexei, she is alone and doesn't have anything in her life anymore.
Yelena wants to change and find a purpose in her life, something to actually live for. So, let me be clear in something, this is something she wants to do, but Bob ends up being part of the catalyst of making that change a reality. Because he is her mirror and she is his', if he deserves better and to be saved, so does she. But, I'm not going to deny that in helping to save him she is also paying it forward to Natasha's legacy as a hero.
The thing is that the saving in this film is done by letting a person save themselves, but showing them they don't have to do it by themselves, that they have a support system that they can rely on, in other words, that you are not alone. Is the light shining upon you on your darkest moment.
Yenale doesn't need another bnglisi. The way she treats Nat and Bob is different. She treats Bob as someone close, that she is willing to let in; with Nat, they actually have quite realistic sisterly relationship, barring the elements of their backstory. I think that by adding family to Yelena and Bob's relationship from the beginning does their bond a disservice, as family feels like it implies an expection or obligation, the role of older sister (or mother) that antis tend to assigned to Yelena and that role always feels associated with being caretaker and, at the same time because of that, it feels like infantalizing the grown ass man that suffers from mental illness, almost seeing it as he was a 'burden' because of that. It also feels like taking away the actual reasons to why Yelena helps save Bob, her choice in the matter, and what makes her the hero of the film.
Because the truth of the matter is that Yelena actively chooses to help Bob over and over again, putting herself in danger to do so from tying him to her, choosing to step into The Void, her whole gymnastic and aeralist scene trying to reach him because she cares about him. She chooses to do this, not just because the right thing to do, but because she cares about him. It's because she chooses to give Bob her protection, her affection and her trust is that he manages to find the strength to save himself, and by doing so she saves herself.
There's a reason as to why the track's name of the moment that she steps into The Void is called 'Yelena's Choice' because that's her big hero moment in the film, she is the first one in her team to do a "sacrifice play" by choosing to step into the darkness to find and save Bob.
Son Lux · Thunderbolts* (Original Motion Picture Soundtrack) · Song · 2025
But I, also want to point out, the way you worded it feels kinda weird, like you are trying to force Bob into the same place Yelena held for Natasha, as if he is a consolation to temper her sadness, a prop to make her feel better, her do-over as if he were a replacement for the sister lost, and not his own person, a sibling for a sibling. That instead of acceptance and letting go of a bond that no longer is and live with that loss and find new people, is using another person to fill that space instead of growing around it. A continuation of the relationship that was lost, if I may and I will...
Oh, no... Jeez, I just realize something, you guys actually see Bob as Natasha's replacement, what's the wrong with you? Indeed, a sibling for a sibling as if each sibling relationship in real life isn't different from one another, and I have never seen siblings being portrayed the way Bob and Yelena were, unless they had a degree of incest to their relationship (explicitly Luther and Allison Hargreeves in TUA, and implied Roderick and Madeline Usher in TFotHoU, come to mind). So, you are turning a healthy dynamic (that has healthy communication!) with codependant tendencies (they both have issues and healing takes time) into something completely unhealthy and one of the worst coping mechanisms to ever exist.
Congratulations! By doing that, you managed to completely misundertand the concept of what a found family (or family of choice) is by trying to give it the structure of a traditional family, when that is not the point of the trope, and just to give an example within the mcu itself, the Guardians (who had Starmora in it and two actual sibling duos that were mentioned above) are a found family. So, still no reason for them to be seen as siblings here, except to make it seem like incest.
It's not like the guilt Yelena feels for Natasha and the one she feels for Bob come from the same place. The one she feels for Nat, for her sister is survivior's guilt, her sister is dead, she isn't, there's is nothing Yelena could've done to change the outcome even if she had been there to intervene, Natasha wouldn't have let her in the same way she didn't let Clint and, now, she has to live with this Natasha-shaped hole in their heart and make peace with her death and live with it for the rest of her life. That's their tragedy.
With Bob, the connection was instantaneous and there was understanding, perhaps not a complete understanding, but understanding nonetheless. That's where the conflict between them comes from, she didn't know him completely and she projected, saw herself on him, tries to protect him (when he wanted to help and hates being seen as useless, and she ignores that), and then she loses him and tries to get him back. This notion finally begins to break when the team first encounters him in the Watchtower with: "You can trust me, I know you" and "I don't think you do". Here, she begins to finally see him for him, for who he is, and not just her idealized version of him or someone she has to protect. That's why she lashes out at everyone else later on because she feels Bob changed and that she lost him again.
Then, the idealization shatters completely when he as The Void echoes her words from before: "You were right. We are all alone. All of us." I think that that was the moment she truly understood him, truly began seeing him for himself and his issues (and not just what she projected onto him), and what makes her decide to step into The Void (being only person that's given the choice to do so) to find Bob and to help him, to save him, and never let him go.
She felt guilty because of what she said to him in the vault and because she didn't see the real him until those moments. When they find each other, they speak, she admits she was wrong and apologizes for what she said back then, and both of them let the other in and come to a true understanding between them, and are able to go on (there's still healing to do, it's not a magic cure, but it's what puts them in the path for that) and become emotionally closer because of that.
So it's not even really the same kind of guilt, as Yelena is able to move forward with Bob, meanwhile, she will have to live with her grief for Natasha the rest of her life and the landslide it caused in her mental health and her already existing issues.
Anyways... The film leaves us hanging in a platonic bond between them, sadly we don't know what happened in those 14 months between the end of the film and the post-credit scene, but the bond they have with each other had been already shown to be the closest and the deepest one compare to the ones that they share with the other members of the team. Other than, you know, the actual familial one that Yelena has with Alexei, I'm not saying they aren't close with the others, just that these two are closer to each other. It seems that Bob and Yelena are just platonic at the moment, not that we can gather a lot of information on the complete dynamics of the team in the post-credit scene as the important things are the issues with Sam and the appearance F4's spaceship.
This is the only reason I can say you are not completely wrong on the platonic thing because that's where we are in the canon. But in the siblings thing? Oh, you are so very wrong.
Something that has being said before, it's that people would've called it romantic if it had been any of the other couples in the mcu that had been given Bob and Yelena's moments, their bond and relationship, their parallels, the mirrors they are to each other and the way their scenes are framed, people would add it to the list of reasons why they like those ships.
As I mentioned before, these two are each other's mirrors, and it's a pretty common practice for characters that are shipped/paired together to be mirrors of each other, to have a connection with each other, to be parallels and opposites and yet similar enough. Plus, it's not like the movie doesn't spell this out to you more than once:
Yelena embodying The Void in the opening hallaway.
Yelena fighting her shame room self and Bob fighting The Void.
Asking "What happened to Yelena?" and "Eat shit, Valentina. Where's Bob?" respectively, when each first meets with Val during the film.
Literally showing us that when they see each other in the mirror.
And let's not get into the obvious ones of light and darkness. By the end of the film, their meeting feels like fate, from strangers to kinda friends to the heroine and the antagonist to friends who are not gonna let go of each other.
But for some reason, when it's Bob and Yelena it's stricly platonic, strictly a sibling relationship, without potential fo more, as if there wasn't another ship that tries to steal all our moments by replacing Yelena with another character because they have nothing of their own if you take the movie as it is.
And Marvel is just allergic to use romance when it's a female-lead project in general, unless it's an already established relationship:
Captain Marvel, no romance.
Wandavision, an already established romance.
Eternals, there's a married couple that's been separated for few hundred years, we get their relationship shown in snippets because Sersi is the main heroine and Ikaris the main antagonist, and there's not really a focus on Sersi's new relationship, it only shows that Dane is supporting.
Hawkeye, Kate doesn't have a romantic love interest (no matter how certain people wish someone was her Love interest).
Ms Marvel, we get introduced to three love interest but there's so much going on already that it goes nowhere with them.
She-Hulk: Attorney at Law, I know Jen has some hook ups but there's no romance, even if it left the seeds for JenMatt if they ever want to follow up with that.
Black Panter: Wakanda Forever, you have Shuri and Namor dancing around each other, sharing a scene that has a love song (Con La Brisa is a love song) playing in the background, but because Namor is the main antagonist and due to his actions during the second half, they have a shaky alliance by the end.
The Marvels, it has Carol's marriage to prince Yan, but it's more of a political arrangement and a favor to her friend.
Agatha All Along, there's AgathaRio, but the relationship is introduced in the series and are already broken up, but it's not really a main focus despite having plot relevancy.
With Yelena and Bob, the movie literally gave them such a solid and perfect foundation that in following films they can keep building upon it, like deny it to me that they don't have tremendous potential and chemistry, also when was the last time Marvel really gave us something like that and why waste it, when it's already there and there's only The Fantastic Four: First Steps left in the road to Doomsday?
But what about platonic bonds, you may ask? Well, jeez Louise, there's a dime a dozen platonic bonds and friendships in the MCU right now, here's like three canon couples left standing (ScottHope, HankJanet [these two less likely with recent news], and the upcoming ReedSue) and some possible ones that can go further if they want (Shang-Chi and Katy, Shuri and Namor, and Yelena and Bob), not too mention the ones that are stuck in Disney+ limbo and who knows what will happen to them like Ms Marvel's three love interest (Bruno, Kamran and Kareem), AgathaRio and MoonScarab. Everyone else is dead or separated. Also it's not like Bucky, Ava, John and Alexei are all just painted there, these are actual platonic and familial bonds that they have.
Is it because they are not filrty? It's because they didn't have the typical banter? What's wrong with having a connection, more emotional moments and an understanding? These two actually have emotional beats that revolve around each other and progress their character arcs, is it so bad for a relationship to begin with such a strong foundation? And act like some of the best romance aren't born out of close and deep platonics bonds, like these two share?
So, yeah, using your own words against you, it confuses me that people are seeing Bob and Yelena as stricly siblings or just strictly platonic (this is what they are now, this is literal in canon, a close platonic relationship), I cannot understand it for the life of me.
It makes me questions if all of you (who see Boblena as siblings) know how siblings actually act with each other or if you have weird relationship with them in real life, which in that case, well...you do you, Allison Hargreeves. So tell me, do siblings usually look at each other in this way, both in the good moments and in the bad, or is how you expect siblings to look at each other? Or react that way they do when the other is hurt? The devastation, the protectiveness and the helplessness...
Or they way they are very physical with one another, despite their respective histories? The way they hold onto each other? Or the fact they get tied together, tethered to one another, three separate times? Is that sibling-like to you? Mind you, in one of the images, Yelena is clutching Bob's sweater, clinging to him and he is holding her arm tightly, and I didn't even get all of the moments where they are tactile with one another. Thought I got them all, but I was wrong.
And if you plan on saying something about the Sentry fight image because it's included there, this is the only moment Yelena attacks him, she tries to immobilize him, not hurt him and pleads him to stop and, before that, tried to defend him and put herself between him and the others, never got into a fighting stance even when the others did and got caught in the crossfire between him, John and Ava. Bob, for his part, I'm not going to say he was soft or gentle with her, but he went easy on her compare to the other four. He can see their attacks coming and still lets her climb on top of him, when Yelena impacts against the ceiling, he stops himself by touching the it with his arm, so it wouldn't crack and catches her before throwing her towards the side of the elevator, the only exit.
Yelena and Bob, during the runtime of the film, are each other's exceptions.
Even the director of the movie, Jake Schreier, said about them and how the moments in the Watchtower, the not-break up, is what drives Yelena during the rest of the movie in the film's comentary, does that sound like the description of siblings to you? Kindred spirits, yes, definitely. But siblings? No, of course not.
I would also find the existance of a certain poster to be very weird, you know the one where Yelena is the light of The Void/Bob's eyes if it was supposed to be strictly platonic, familial or sibling relationship, I would say it was a very weird desicion to make.
You cannot deny that Yelena and Bob are each other's person, whatever that may mean for their bond/relationship/dynamic and the future of it.
Also, I dare you to tell me that if the character you ship Yelena with, or the character that you ship Bob with had had the moments these two actually have together, you wouldn't use it as a justification for your ship's existance, and that you would get annoyed that people say they are siblings or have a familial relationship, or say that they are strictly platonic. Go on, tell me.
2. yelena is not attracted to men.
Wow, here you are just plain wrong. Yelena doesn't have an established sexuality. Even in the comics her sexuality is of dubious cannocity and is not enough to just show three panels out context that barely count as confirmation of anything.
The moment I realize that you see Bob as Natasha's replacement was the moment that I knew I wouldn't be able to convince of anything, specially if this the kind of argument you are willing to use. You already made up your mind on Yelena's sexuality because of the way she styles her hair and wears eyeliner by stereotyping lesbians, which what kind of argument is that? It's so shallow of an argument that it shouldn't even count as one. Honestly shallow it's one way to describe your "argument" because I think the better descriptor it's the word that begins with 's' and rhymes with cupid.
Let's not mentioned how you, with that argument, invalidate ace, demi, aro, bi and straight girls who are gender non-confirming and not super femenine.
You say this as if Yelena's experimentation with her style and the way she presents herself doesn't come from the fact the Red Room took that away from her for most of her life and this is her way of reclaiming that, you just have to look at her outfits throughout BW, Hawkeye and Thunderbolts* to see it. Just look at the variety, it's beautiful!
I imagine the canonical lesbian characters from Agatha All Along aren't lesbians to you because they don't adhere to your stereotype. I mean, Alice is a canonical lesbian and fits your stereotype better than Yelena, but Agatha "If you want straight answers, ask a straight lady" Harkness wouldn't be because she doesn't fit your stereotype, after all she doesn't use the eyeliner, but goes heavy on the eyeshadow.
Also there's only so much say that an actor has of a character as in film as there are writers and directors involved in their creation and how they chose to bring said character to life. In the end, it's the director and the writer who have the final say, even if the actor can have a great deal of influence in how a character is portrayed. Besides, it's not like Florence Pugh hasn't fought for the way Yelena is portrayed and the same for the relationships her character shares with others.
So whatever sexuality you consider Yelena to be is your headcanon ergo it's not written anywhere in the canon, so please don't state it as if that was the case. As for you not being able to imagine her kissing a man is subjective and also a "you" problem because even if she has not kissed anyone in the films/shows, the comics disagree as she has been portrayed kissing and sleeping with men. Hell, even if this is not something romatic, well... this is still something that happened and exists (and yes, that is Yelena).
Ironically enough the only sexuality Yelena, in the comics, has denied being is a lesbian in those same three panels that are always posted out of context, even though I doubt it was done in good faith.
Even if we go with what one of her creators has to say about it, Devin Grayson says she considers Yelena to be asexual, but explicitly said that she considers it her own personal headcanon and leaves the final word on Yelena's sexuality to Marvel itself.
Some people headcanon her as demisexual (still within the ace spectrum), others as bisexual. Including myself as I'm partial to both of these headcanons.
So stop trying to disguise your bias as a canonical fact.
3. they have the same damn haircut like cmon man
Are you for real? Actual realsies? Like I called your previous point shallow (and that other word), but I was wrong. This one is just so, so meaningless, and a certain word that begins with 'i' and rhymes with gothic. It has less than zero value as an argument.
Because since when do hairstyles determine if you can or can't ship two characters together? Even if you are not completely in the wrong, at least within the main film, Yelena and Bob both have messy wolf cuts, but the textures and hair colors are different: Yelena has platimun blonde straight hair and Bob's wavy brown, so it doesn't even look the same. You are wrong in the post-credit scene, though, as Yelena's a bit longer and more of a golden blonde than platinum, and Bob's shorter and seems to be a bit of a lighter shade. And not going to get into The Sentry's dyed blonde hair.
Like aesthetics are nice, but they are not the one be all for ships. And it's not like they aren't complementary with each other either, as they compliment each very well aesthetically as we can see here... aesthetics are not an issue. They actually look good together.
Like be for freaking real. Make it make sense, otherwise it's just actual nonsense.
Because, yeah, of course I don't vibe with these points at all. Because at best, they are very shallow and, at worst, they feel completely and utterly nonsensical, to not use stronger language.
Forgive me for the essay, but, to be honest, I don't care anymore. Though, I do apologize for the moments it turns into a rant and vented a lot of my frustations.
So, you wanted a point of view as to why I ship Yelena and Bob, here you have it. Was I harsh? Perhaps. Do I care? Not at all. Did I threw shade at the two ships that I came to really loathe because of the shippers? Absolutely. Was I petty? Yes, but so were your points.
Would I love if my ship became canon? Yes, of course, but I'm not blind to what these two characters' relationship is in the canon, and I'm not going with high expections about it in Doomsday because of the amount of characters that are in it.
Whatever...Live, Laugh, Love Boblena.
Credits for some of the gifs used go to @mcufam, @lokihiddleston , @swkywalker, @miss-carter, @misselesava, and for two images and two videos-turned-gifs I used credit goes to @imeggsywafflex on Twitter. Rest of the images are either from official posts, comics, or that I screenshotted and giffed them from the movie.
Ps. Excuse of the last minute editing I made, I published this monster of a post by accident when I still hadn't finished the touch up.
I don't even ship them because I don't need Yelena in a relationship at all *gulps and looks at the wreckage of mcu ships* but did you know you can just..enjoy your ships and leave others to their ships? Got me defending them out of spite but you guys are making it real hard for me not to do that when your arguments consist of:
1. stereotyping sexualities based on appearances* and
2. the idea of grown adults developing a sibling bond in only 2 days (they're friends!! But saying that doesn't make the ship look nearly as problematic as the sibling narrative)
The "they're like siblings" take is as old as fandom culture goes and I'm too old for this to have any shits left to give about your wannabe groundbreaking ship demolishing argument.
and the hair style argument..I don't even want to elaborate on.
*+ the sheer biphobia laced into all this. Like wearing blue eyeliner, piercings and having a slicked back wolfcut are so gay tm but bisexuals cannot look gay tm. They HAVE to look like a straight person aesthetically because otherwise they would confuse and bait those who don't swing both ways. Seriously, what kind of stereotypes are we pushing here..
yeah you can say whatever you want abt the sibling thing bc that’s purely my opinion and your opinion
but i won’t be accused of biphobia ! i’m a bi girl myself who dresses/presents very very masculine. the way i look does not make me any less bisexual. however! i am a real person, and also a person who has expressed attraction to and been in relationships with men before. this is a fictional character whose presentation is carefully placed into a larger context and who has also never ever expressed any remote interest in men.
plus, you can read an entire post i made about this. why is it okay for you to assume that yelena is attracted to men, but i’m pushing stereotypes when i conclude that she’s not?
with all due respect, you DO know Yelena is in a relationship with a man in a comic run, right? Headcanons are all fine but you're acting like she's 100% representing a sexuality when she simply doesn't.
You can just have your headcanons and not comment on other peoples ship to invalidate their opinions and their headcanons. Crazy concept, right?
Also crazy work, to say in the comments that you'd be like "hm interesting perspective" but your whole response was "I ain't reading all that" when someone DID give their perspective. While apparently deleting all the comments of people asking you to tag correctly. What is your post for if not to provoke shippers for no reason? With mildly questionable to downright stupid (the hair styles) points, mind you.
What you're doing is demeaning other people based on your own headcanons and you gotta be real tone deaf to not notice that.
Good for you to be bi, so am I. But being part of a group does not mean you can't fall victim of internalizing views from others. Those stereotypes are pushed by others and adapting them subconsciously can happen, granted it doesn't mean you are biphobic but the stereotyping remains biphobic. Which is something you need to work through for the comfort of the community. Your takeaway really shouldn't be "I'm bi, fuck off" but maybe reevaluating why you put people into such boxes and whether you should do that at all, fictional or not – because representation is meant to also educate and educating with stereotypes is NOT a good thing you should preach. Did the whole conversations of wanting gay men to not always dress and talk feminine in fiction mean nothing to you or did it go over your head? It's fictional, yeah but it's stereotyping real people and the LGBTQ+ community has always wanted works to represent us better by not pushing stereotypes on a character and calling it a day.
seeing people ship Bob and Yelena together confuses me to the highest degree so:
why “boblena” makes no sense to me: a list
1. yelena and bob have a familial/platonic relationship.
a HUGE part of yelena’s character, especially in thunderbolts, is the loss she’s experienced. that’s why she’s so hesitant to become close to anyone.
her greatest loss? her sister, nat aka black widow.
nat protected yelena from a very young age and yelena feels a lot of guilt for not being able to protect her the same way, as she wasn’t even there when nat died.
so naturally when she meets bob, someone that she sees a lot of herself in, she wants to protect him. not because she’s attracted to him or in love with him, but because she’s trying to make up for past regrets by protecting someone the way she wishes she could have protected her sister. emphasis on SISTER.
2. yelena is not attracted to men.
if the haircut and eyeliner weren’t evidence enough, florence pugh herself makes jokes about this, a specific example being when she said in an interview that she would want to go to a gay bar with yelena.
she is the definition of a masc lesbian. i can’t even imagine her kissing a man in my head.
3. they have the same damn haircut like cmon man
—
if none of these points appeal to you then i would love to hear the other side of the story because i just genuinely don’t understand where it even comes from
Every reason you mentioned is actual nonsense and so subjective is cringy. So I will say this as someone who did not consider Boblena as a ship when I first saw Thunderbolts*, but fell in love with the ship eventually.
So let do this point for point, okay? Not even gonna try to be objective or cordial (and it may turned into a rant) because I'm actually tired and fed up of it all, and, unlike you, I'm actually going to back my arguments with actual evidence and not just use vibes and feelings.
1. yelena and bob have a familial/platonic relationship.
I think that you are mostly completely objectively incorrect because I hate classifying the bond of two people who are close and/or have a mutual understanding with each other as purely familial/siblings as it feels as if you are taking away value from that relationship (actually from both types) and diminishing what those people mean to each other by sibling-zoning them as if there wasn't other ways in how people relate, care and love each other.
As the eldest of my siblings, I refused to acknowledge any close relationship between two characters as siblings (unless explicitly and directly established in the text, which this is not) as you are subestimating how close siblings are, if they are at all, because it's not the same and it's not even close, there are differences between the bonds designated by family and the one you choose by yourself.
To be considered siblings they should qualify in one of these categories:
They need to actually be related like Shuri and T'Challa, Sam and Sarah Wilson, Quill and Mantis, Shang-Chi and Xialing, Pietro and Wanda, Tommy and Billy, Kamala and Aamir, Sue and Johnny.
Were raised together as siblings/adoptive siblings and bc of that have a long history with each like Natasha and Yelena, Gamora and Nebula, Thor and Loki.
Honorary mentions to Tony and Rhodey, Steve and Bucky, Clint and Natasha, Carol and Maria, who are close to each other (aka been best friends for many years) and there is a 50/50 on some people shipping them and others that consider them more of a sibling-type relationships, but still knowing that they were close, when both people in these pairs were and considered family because of the historyand years they shared with each other.
Plus after Yelena promised Bob that they'll stick together from now, I wouldn't wish them the fates of most these sibling duos, whether it's death (Natasha and Yelena, T'Challa and Shuri, Thor and Loki, Pietro and Wanda, Gamora and Nebula), or separation (Shang-Chi and Xialing, Billy and Tommy, Quill and Mantis, and also because of timeline shenanigans Thor and Loki, and Nebula and Gamora), and I get it, it mirrors real life, siblings go their separate ways and follow their own paths, and tragedy will strike and one will always leave before the other. Sue and Johnny are a special case because they are on the same team, but still each of them have their own lives. But that's not the point of their promise, the point is that they'll stay for each other, even if no one else did before.
Bob and Yelena have none of those points to indicate them a siblings or sibling-like. They were literally born in different continents as he is from Sarasota Springs in Florida, and she was born either in Russia or in an undisclosed Eastern-European country. So they are not blood related, they were not raised together, and, as we see their first meeting in the film, they don't have a histoy that spans years.
These two are in their early to mid 30's and have know each other for a few hours at best before getting separated for the first time and get reunited briefly in the Watchtower before the Sentry fight, and then separated again because of said fight and finally reuniting, once and for all in The Void's shame rooms. So, yeah, I don't see an actual reason to see these two as sibling and see their ship as pseudo-incest, other than to make people feel ashamed about the ship they like by making it seem problematic and silenced those who like it because you feel it threatens your headcanon and/or your ship.
Even in the beginning, when they met in the vault, these two were strangers of a similar age, if not the same age, who formed an instant connection and found some kind of understanding with each other.
Do you expect two adults in their 30's who have not known each other for long to see each other as siblings, even if both had a very intimate connection with each other almost from the beginning? Of course not.
Even so, these two wanted to help and protect the other almost from the get go ergo is something equal between them, they were protecting and trying to protect the other during the runtime of the film. Because Yelena is not the only one doing the proctecting, even if it feels that way.
Obviously, Yelena feels protective of Bob because as far as she knew when they met, he was a civilian stuck in a death trap made for four covert shadow ops agents, and one person had already died, and continous doing so after they form a connection and he has seen her shame room. Yelena does this because even if she is not a good person, she has a good heart.
Bob wanted to be able to help and be of service since the beginning, and he returns the favor (or, at least, tries to): when he sacrifices himself so the other three can escape; when he covers her and then tries grabs something to defend Yelena and himself when the things in the attic begin attacking them in his shame room; and when Yelena gets hurt by The Void, he calls out to it to don't hurt her, and this is what also prompts him to attack it, even if he fails to really do something in last two times.
Also, I think that Bob is the first person to protect Yelena in this film against something when he covers and holds her in his shame room, the same Yelena who never really had someone to protect her (Yes, I know Nat did in the Black Widow film)
Because, as much she loves them, even her fake family didn't really do that and added to her issues: Natasha left the Red Room and hope for the best for the others, including her; Alexei returned them to Dreykov as children, and didn't contact Yelena for a year before the events of the film; and Melina, helped create the chemical that was used to brainwash the Widows (Yelena included), and it's MIA for the moment.
So, yeah, it's both of them doing (or trying to do) the proctecting.
And, at this point in time, Yelena it's not just depressed because of Natasha's loss, even if it's a major reason (Nat has been dead for almost five years by now) and she has lost her purpose, is battling an addiction and she is going through life without rhyme nor reason in that void she feels inside because, well, as she said, after the not-break up during her talk with Alexei, she is alone and doesn't have anything in her life anymore.
Yelena wants to change and find a purpose in her life, something to actually live for. So, let me be clear in something, this is something she wants to do, but Bob ends up being part of the catalyst of making that change a reality. Because he is her mirror and she is his', if he deserves better and to be saved, so does she. But, I'm not going to deny that in helping to save him she is also paying it forward to Natasha's legacy as a hero.
The thing is that the saving in this film is done by letting a person save themselves, but showing them they don't have to do it by themselves, that they have a support system that they can rely on, in other words, that you are not alone. Is the light shining upon you on your darkest moment.
Yenale doesn't need another bnglisi. The way she treats Nat and Bob is different. She treats Bob as someone close, that she is willing to let in; with Nat, they actually have quite realistic sisterly relationship, barring the elements of their backstory. I think that by adding family to Yelena and Bob's relationship from the beginning does their bond a disservice, as family feels like it implies an expection or obligation, the role of older sister (or mother) that antis tend to assigned to Yelena and that role always feels associated with being caretaker and, at the same time because of that, it feels like infantalizing the grown ass man that suffers from mental illness, almost seeing it as he was a 'burden' because of that. It also feels like taking away the actual reasons to why Yelena helps save Bob, her choice in the matter, and what makes her the hero of the film.
Because the truth of the matter is that Yelena actively chooses to help Bob over and over again, putting herself in danger to do so from tying him to her, choosing to step into The Void, her whole gymnastic and aeralist scene trying to reach him because she cares about him. She chooses to do this, not just because the right thing to do, but because she cares about him. It's because she chooses to give Bob her protection, her affection and her trust is that he manages to find the strength to save himself, and by doing so she saves herself.
There's a reason as to why the track's name of the moment that she steps into The Void is called 'Yelena's Choice' because that's her big hero moment in the film, she is the first one in her team to do a "sacrifice play" by choosing to step into the darkness to find and save Bob.
Son Lux · Thunderbolts* (Original Motion Picture Soundtrack) · Song · 2025
But I, also want to point out, the way you worded it feels kinda weird, like you are trying to force Bob into the same place Yelena held for Natasha, as if he is a consolation to temper her sadness, a prop to make her feel better, her do-over as if he were a replacement for the sister lost, and not his own person, a sibling for a sibling. That instead of acceptance and letting go of a bond that no longer is and live with that loss and find new people, is using another person to fill that space instead of growing around it. A continuation of the relationship that was lost, if I may and I will...
Oh, no... Jeez, I just realize something, you guys actually see Bob as Natasha's replacement, what's the wrong with you? Indeed, a sibling for a sibling as if each sibling relationship in real life isn't different from one another, and I have never seen siblings being portrayed the way Bob and Yelena were, unless they had a degree of incest to their relationship (explicitly Luther and Allison Hargreeves in TUA, and implied Roderick and Madeline Usher in TFotHoU, come to mind). So, you are turning a healthy dynamic (that has healthy communication!) with codependant tendencies (they both have issues and healing takes time) into something completely unhealthy and one of the worst coping mechanisms to ever exist.
Congratulations! By doing that, you managed to completely misundertand the concept of what a found family (or family of choice) is by trying to give it the structure of a traditional family, when that is not the point of the trope, and just to give an example within the mcu itself, the Guardians (who had Starmora in it and two actual sibling duos that were mentioned above) are a found family. So, still no reason for them to be seen as siblings here, except to make it seem like incest.
It's not like the guilt Yelena feels for Natasha and the one she feels for Bob come from the same place. The one she feels for Nat, for her sister is survivior's guilt, her sister is dead, she isn't, there's is nothing Yelena could've done to change the outcome even if she had been there to intervene, Natasha wouldn't have let her in the same way she didn't let Clint and, now, she has to live with this Natasha-shaped hole in their heart and make peace with her death and live with it for the rest of her life. That's their tragedy.
With Bob, the connection was instantaneous and there was understanding, perhaps not a complete understanding, but understanding nonetheless. That's where the conflict between them comes from, she didn't know him completely and she projected, saw herself on him, tries to protect him (when he wanted to help and hates being seen as useless, and she ignores that), and then she loses him and tries to get him back. This notion finally begins to break when the team first encounters him in the Watchtower with: "You can trust me, I know you" and "I don't think you do". Here, she begins to finally see him for him, for who he is, and not just her idealized version of him or someone she has to protect. That's why she lashes out at everyone else later on because she feels Bob changed and that she lost him again.
Then, the idealization shatters completely when he as The Void echoes her words from before: "You were right. We are all alone. All of us." I think that that was the moment she truly understood him, truly began seeing him for himself and his issues (and not just what she projected onto him), and what makes her decide to step into The Void (being only person that's given the choice to do so) to find Bob and to help him, to save him, and never let him go.
She felt guilty because of what she said to him in the vault and because she didn't see the real him until those moments. When they find each other, they speak, she admits she was wrong and apologizes for what she said back then, and both of them let the other in and come to a true understanding between them, and are able to go on (there's still healing to do, it's not a magic cure, but it's what puts them in the path for that) and become emotionally closer because of that.
So it's not even really the same kind of guilt, as Yelena is able to move forward with Bob, meanwhile, she will have to live with her grief for Natasha the rest of her life and the landslide it caused in her mental health and her already existing issues.
Anyways... The film leaves us hanging in a platonic bond between them, sadly we don't know what happened in those 14 months between the end of the film and the post-credit scene, but the bond they have with each other had been already shown to be the closest and the deepest one compare to the ones that they share with the other members of the team. Other than, you know, the actual familial one that Yelena has with Alexei, I'm not saying they aren't close with the others, just that these two are closer to each other. It seems that Bob and Yelena are just platonic at the moment, not that we can gather a lot of information on the complete dynamics of the team in the post-credit scene as the important things are the issues with Sam and the appearance F4's spaceship.
This is the only reason I can say you are not completely wrong on the platonic thing because that's where we are in the canon. But in the siblings thing? Oh, you are so very wrong.
Something that has being said before, it's that people would've called it romantic if it had been any of the other couples in the mcu that had been given Bob and Yelena's moments, their bond and relationship, their parallels, the mirrors they are to each other and the way their scenes are framed, people would add it to the list of reasons why they like those ships.
As I mentioned before, these two are each other's mirrors, and it's a pretty common practice for characters that are shipped/paired together to be mirrors of each other, to have a connection with each other, to be parallels and opposites and yet similar enough. Plus, it's not like the movie doesn't spell this out to you more than once:
Yelena embodying The Void in the opening hallaway.
Yelena fighting her shame room self and Bob fighting The Void.
Asking "What happened to Yelena?" and "Eat shit, Valentina. Where's Bob?" respectively, when each first meets with Val during the film.
Literally showing us that when they see each other in the mirror.
And let's not get into the obvious ones of light and darkness. By the end of the film, their meeting feels like fate, from strangers to kinda friends to the heroine and the antagonist to friends who are not gonna let go of each other.
But for some reason, when it's Bob and Yelena it's stricly platonic, strictly a sibling relationship, without potential fo more, as if there wasn't another ship that tries to steal all our moments by replacing Yelena with another character because they have nothing of their own if you take the movie as it is.
And Marvel is just allergic to use romance when it's a female-lead project in general, unless it's an already established relationship:
Captain Marvel, no romance.
Wandavision, an already established romance.
Eternals, there's a married couple that's been separated for few hundred years, we get their relationship shown in snippets because Sersi is the main heroine and Ikaris the main antagonist, and there's not really a focus on Sersi's new relationship, it only shows that Dane is supporting.
Hawkeye, Kate doesn't have a romantic love interest (no matter how certain people wish someone was her Love interest).
Ms Marvel, we get introduced to three love interest but there's so much going on already that it goes nowhere with them.
She-Hulk: Attorney at Law, I know Jen has some hook ups but there's no romance, even if it left the seeds for JenMatt if they ever want to follow up with that.
Black Panter: Wakanda Forever, you have Shuri and Namor dancing around each other, sharing a scene that has a love song (Con La Brisa is a love song) playing in the background, but because Namor is the main antagonist and due to his actions during the second half, they have a shaky alliance by the end.
The Marvels, it has Carol's marriage to prince Yan, but it's more of a political arrangement and a favor to her friend.
Agatha All Along, there's AgathaRio, but the relationship is introduced in the series and are already broken up, but it's not really a main focus despite having plot relevancy.
With Yelena and Bob, the movie literally gave them such a solid and perfect foundation that in following films they can keep building upon it, like deny it to me that they don't have tremendous potential and chemistry, also when was the last time Marvel really gave us something like that and why waste it, when it's already there and there's only The Fantastic Four: First Steps left in the road to Doomsday?
But what about platonic bonds, you may ask? Well, jeez Louise, there's a dime a dozen platonic bonds and friendships in the MCU right now, here's like three canon couples left standing (ScottHope, HankJanet [these two less likely with recent news], and the upcoming ReedSue) and some possible ones that can go further if they want (Shang-Chi and Katy, Shuri and Namor, and Yelena and Bob), not too mention the ones that are stuck in Disney+ limbo and who knows what will happen to them like Ms Marvel's three love interest (Bruno, Kamran and Kareem), AgathaRio and MoonScarab. Everyone else is dead or separated. Also it's not like Bucky, Ava, John and Alexei are all just painted there, these are actual platonic and familial bonds that they have.
Is it because they are not filrty? It's because they didn't have the typical banter? What's wrong with having a connection, more emotional moments and an understanding? These two actually have emotional beats that revolve around each other and progress their character arcs, is it so bad for a relationship to begin with such a strong foundation? And act like some of the best romance aren't born out of close and deep platonics bonds, like these two share?
So, yeah, using your own words against you, it confuses me that people are seeing Bob and Yelena as stricly siblings or just strictly platonic (this is what they are now, this is literal in canon, a close platonic relationship), I cannot understand it for the life of me.
It makes me questions if all of you (who see Boblena as siblings) know how siblings actually act with each other or if you have weird relationship with them in real life, which in that case, well...you do you, Allison Hargreeves. So tell me, do siblings usually look at each other in this way, both in the good moments and in the bad, or is how you expect siblings to look at each other? Or react that way they do when the other is hurt? The devastation, the protectiveness and the helplessness...
Or they way they are very physical with one another, despite their respective histories? The way they hold onto each other? Or the fact they get tied together, tethered to one another, three separate times? Is that sibling-like to you? Mind you, in one of the images, Yelena is clutching Bob's sweater, clinging to him and he is holding her arm tightly, and I didn't even get all of the moments where they are tactile with one another. Thought I got them all, but I was wrong.
And if you plan on saying something about the Sentry fight image because it's included there, this is the only moment Yelena attacks him, she tries to immobilize him, not hurt him and pleads him to stop and, before that, tried to defend him and put herself between him and the others, never got into a fighting stance even when the others did and got caught in the crossfire between him, John and Ava. Bob, for his part, I'm not going to say he was soft or gentle with her, but he went easy on her compare to the other four. He can see their attacks coming and still lets her climb on top of him, when Yelena impacts against the ceiling, he stops himself by touching the it with his arm, so it wouldn't crack and catches her before throwing her towards the side of the elevator, the only exit.
Yelena and Bob, during the runtime of the film, are each other's exceptions.
Even the director of the movie, Jake Schreier, said about them and how the moments in the Watchtower, the not-break up, is what drives Yelena during the rest of the movie in the film's comentary, does that sound like the description of siblings to you? Kindred spirits, yes, definitely. But siblings? No, of course not.
I would also find the existance of a certain poster to be very weird, you know the one where Yelena is the light of The Void/Bob's eyes if it was supposed to be strictly platonic, familial or sibling relationship, I would say it was a very weird desicion to make.
You cannot deny that Yelena and Bob are each other's person, whatever that may mean for their bond/relationship/dynamic and the future of it.
Also, I dare you to tell me that if the character you ship Yelena with, or the character that you ship Bob with had had the moments these two actually have together, you wouldn't use it as a justification for your ship's existance, and that you would get annoyed that people say they are siblings or have a familial relationship, or say that they are strictly platonic. Go on, tell me.
2. yelena is not attracted to men.
Wow, here you are just plain wrong. Yelena doesn't have an established sexuality. Even in the comics her sexuality is of dubious cannocity and is not enough to just show three panels out context that barely count as confirmation of anything.
The moment I realize that you see Bob as Natasha's replacement was the moment that I knew I wouldn't be able to convince of anything, specially if this the kind of argument you are willing to use. You already made up your mind on Yelena's sexuality because of the way she styles her hair and wears eyeliner by stereotyping lesbians, which what kind of argument is that? It's so shallow of an argument that it shouldn't even count as one. Honestly shallow it's one way to describe your "argument" because I think the better descriptor it's the word that begins with 's' and rhymes with cupid.
Let's not mentioned how you, with that argument, invalidate ace, demi, aro, bi and straight girls who are gender non-confirming and not super femenine.
You say this as if Yelena's experimentation with her style and the way she presents herself doesn't come from the fact the Red Room took that away from her for most of her life and this is her way of reclaiming that, you just have to look at her outfits throughout BW, Hawkeye and Thunderbolts* to see it. Just look at the variety, it's beautiful!
I imagine the canonical lesbian characters from Agatha All Along aren't lesbians to you because they don't adhere to your stereotype. I mean, Alice is a canonical lesbian and fits your stereotype better than Yelena, but Agatha "If you want straight answers, ask a straight lady" Harkness wouldn't be because she doesn't fit your stereotype, after all she doesn't use the eyeliner, but goes heavy on the eyeshadow.
Also there's only so much say that an actor has of a character as in film as there are writers and directors involved in their creation and how they chose to bring said character to life. In the end, it's the director and the writer who have the final say, even if the actor can have a great deal of influence in how a character is portrayed. Besides, it's not like Florence Pugh hasn't fought for the way Yelena is portrayed and the same for the relationships her character shares with others.
So whatever sexuality you consider Yelena to be is your headcanon ergo it's not written anywhere in the canon, so please don't state it as if that was the case. As for you not being able to imagine her kissing a man is subjective and also a "you" problem because even if she has not kissed anyone in the films/shows, the comics disagree as she has been portrayed kissing and sleeping with men. Hell, even if this is not something romatic, well... this is still something that happened and exists (and yes, that is Yelena).
Ironically enough the only sexuality Yelena, in the comics, has denied being is a lesbian in those same three panels that are always posted out of context, even though I doubt it was done in good faith.
Even if we go with what one of her creators has to say about it, Devin Grayson says she considers Yelena to be asexual, but explicitly said that she considers it her own personal headcanon and leaves the final word on Yelena's sexuality to Marvel itself.
Some people headcanon her as demisexual (still within the ace spectrum), others as bisexual. Including myself as I'm partial to both of these headcanons.
So stop trying to disguise your bias as a canonical fact.
3. they have the same damn haircut like cmon man
Are you for real? Actual realsies? Like I called your previous point shallow (and that other word), but I was wrong. This one is just so, so meaningless, and a certain word that begins with 'i' and rhymes with gothic. It has less than zero value as an argument.
Because since when do hairstyles determine if you can or can't ship two characters together? Even if you are not completely in the wrong, at least within the main film, Yelena and Bob both have messy wolf cuts, but the textures and hair colors are different: Yelena has platimun blonde straight hair and Bob's wavy brown, so it doesn't even look the same. You are wrong in the post-credit scene, though, as Yelena's a bit longer and more of a golden blonde than platinum, and Bob's shorter and seems to be a bit of a lighter shade. And not going to get into The Sentry's dyed blonde hair.
Like aesthetics are nice, but they are not the one be all for ships. And it's not like they aren't complementary with each other either, as they compliment each very well aesthetically as we can see here... aesthetics are not an issue. They actually look good together.
Like be for freaking real. Make it make sense, otherwise it's just actual nonsense.
Because, yeah, of course I don't vibe with these points at all. Because at best, they are very shallow and, at worst, they feel completely and utterly nonsensical, to not use stronger language.
Forgive me for the essay, but, to be honest, I don't care anymore. Though, I do apologize for the moments it turns into a rant and vented a lot of my frustations.
So, you wanted a point of view as to why I ship Yelena and Bob, here you have it. Was I harsh? Perhaps. Do I care? Not at all. Did I threw shade at the two ships that I came to really loathe because of the shippers? Absolutely. Was I petty? Yes, but so were your points.
Would I love if my ship became canon? Yes, of course, but I'm not blind to what these two characters' relationship is in the canon, and I'm not going with high expections about it in Doomsday because of the amount of characters that are in it.
Whatever...Live, Laugh, Love Boblena.
Credits for some of the gifs used go to @mcufam, @lokihiddleston , @swkywalker, @miss-carter, @misselesava, and for two images and two videos-turned-gifs I used credit goes to @imeggsywafflex on Twitter. Rest of the images are either from official posts, comics, or that I screenshotted and giffed them from the movie.
Ps. Excuse of the last minute editing I made, I published this monster of a post by accident when I still hadn't finished the touch up.
I don't even ship them because I don't need Yelena in a relationship at all *gulps and looks at the wreckage of mcu ships* but did you know you can just..enjoy your ships and leave others to their ships? Got me defending them out of spite but you guys are making it real hard for me not to do that when your arguments consist of:
1. stereotyping sexualities based on appearances* and
2. the idea of grown adults developing a sibling bond in only 2 days (they're friends!! But saying that doesn't make the ship look nearly as problematic as the sibling narrative)
The "they're like siblings" take is as old as fandom culture goes and I'm too old for this to have any shits left to give about your wannabe groundbreaking ship demolishing argument.
and the hair style argument..I don't even want to elaborate on.
*+ the sheer biphobia laced into all this. Like wearing blue eyeliner, piercings and having a slicked back wolfcut are so gay tm but bisexuals cannot look gay tm. They HAVE to look like a straight person aesthetically because otherwise they would confuse and bait those who don't swing both ways. Seriously, what kind of stereotypes are we pushing here..
some of yall are trying way too hard to see Bob and Yelena as siblings. They're both like in their mid 30s and if you think that's an age where someone (a full on adult) develops a sibling bond within like 70 hours I'm gonna need to hold your hand.
Hi, I’m a girl and I love apothecary diaries and many aspects tick what I like. But unfortunately I find a very huge obstacle in my way, which is why this is a huge rant with lots of words. The obstacle being the setting women in. Does it get better in the novels and manga? I find myself more relaxed when the subjects aren’t in the setting including forced sex workers, hostage concubines, the constant reminder that women are beyond powerless and how it’s all in a rom-com setting as well. Iam able to watch typically triggering stuff without being triggered when the story very clearly indicates we see it as a bad thing. Like law and order SVU, the handmaiden tale and so on. But in this story it’s like a slice-of-life mixed with a setting we’re all women are limited awful fates by the system.
I’ve even seen redditors say they love how even though misogyny is so rampart in the world building, it’s accepted by the characters and there aren’t any man-hating women there. Like they all accept their place as women in that society without rebellion and move on with their jokes and story. Some even saying they loved how maomao put the biggest blame on her mother when that origin situation with her dad occurred, that they hold women accountable in a setting that gives and I quote “awful bunch of sandwiches to choose from”
It’s really upsetting to me because while I could tell the complex female characters were written by a woman before knowing who the author was, I’m overthinking her going about this things.
It’s goes female character A is a woman in one the multiple bad situations they are forced to be put up with > she is attractive and voluptuous or/ and smiling and appropriately submissive to the situation (doesn’t dare to object it, or tries to finess it in a way appropriate for the system)> a mini monalog from Maomao/or the character herself about this is it to navigate this life as a woman there > a light-hearted joke the next minute and so on (I’ve seen the theme with princess fuyo, maomaos mother, the emperors fav consort and so on) it almost works to normalize it and I feel like male viewers find it comforting in that sense. a lot of the male fanbase mentions this being the favorite part of the story, the repressive regime that women have to navigate without making them uncomfortabl.
To the extent where some confidently say this shows target audience is men. That’s it’s set in an unfair world for women but they are sort of submissive about it and it has the fanservice to keep them intrigued
Do you see what I’m getting at? I’m not saying why aren’t the female characters miserable 24/7. The difference between this piece of media compared to others that have female characters in this setting is that it almost works to normalize it, while the others have a clear indicator that it is wrong, it clearly displays the darkness and unsettling environment the women are facing, it’s why a lot of men don’t venture into those pieces of media, because it makes them uncomfortable. While TAD is the total opposite, it has all the same elements of the oppressed women setting, but the oppressed women never dare display a hint of resentment towards men, They can never show a strong resentment to the system. They are appropriately over-proportioned female characters submissive to the system and the submissively try to navigate the system while smiling and acceptance and a hint of fanservice.
I am ranting because I’ve seen multiple blogs say how the shows is for the girls and true maomao is one the utter best female characters ever written, but the setting dims anytime she shines a light :(
I agree with what you're saying and no it doesn't really get better in a general sense. It's just a series that doesn't focus on that (even though it could totally do that because of this setting), it's more being historically accurate to how hard it was to be a woman at the time. It's also a seinen, so targeted towards men so I'm not really surprised.
I think people say it's for the girlies because of how it reflects modern problems in itself and well – Maomao. She's a strong woman who doesn't need a man and is an independent capable woman. When it comes to great worldbuilding, TAD isn't exactly my go-to choice because the series is pretty narrow in what it wants to tell; mystery stories. There's of course inconvenient things shown like women not being allowed to be doctors (and the characters finding a solutions to bypass it) but the characters aren't driven by feminist motivations. The narrative just lets us see and digest the oppression and wrongdoings ourselves (Like the 9 years old getting r*ped, which is intentionally framed as bad, no question) or Ah-Duo who always feeling trapped by the Emperor who can't let her go because of his one sided love.
I'm a bit 50/50 on it, I don't hate that it doesn't focus on feminist messages but I also wonder how it would be if it did it a tad bit more.
I don’t reblog Naruto… Like ever. Very curious how this even ended up on the dash but GOD DAMN SHE WAS GOING TO PUNCH A HOLE IN HER HEAD LIKE HO SHIT I FORGOT ABOUT HER BRUTE FUCKING STRENGTH LIKE, GURL WTF YOU SUPPOSE TO BE A HEALER, A MEDIC, WHAT SORT OF RED CROSS ORGANIZATION PROMOTES THE USE OF GUNS LIKE THESE?!? LIKE SHIT DAMN SON THAT’S A STONE WALL. THE FORCE OF THAT KICK JUST ABOUT KNOCKED HOME GIRL RIGHT THE FUCK OVER. LIKE DAMN SOMEONE’S ON THAT SAITAMA WORK OUT WHEN SHE NOT LEARNING HERBS AND BULLSHIT IN MEDSCHOOL. DOES SHE EVEN SLEEP OR DOES SHE JUST LIFE WEIGHTS AND GO TO HEALING NINJA SCHOOL. HOME GIRL’S A GOD DAMN MACHINE. DO PINK NINJAS DREAM OF KETTLEBELLS?
Literally one of the worst trope's for alt male characters is 'His canon type is weirdgirls but in fanon he's always made to like girls who try to control him'.What're they doing to our autistic kings💔💔💔💔💔
heavy on maiko (they're so misunderstood) and sasusaku. Sakura is a badass but she's often just a silly weird girl when she's with her man and that's fine. She's Sasuke's spring sunlight.
This is random and I don't know how to explain it but Kishimoto making Sasuke a girldad was actually perfect, I couldn't see it any other way. Does anyone else feel this way?😂
Hi! Not sure if you've answered this before because I come from the tags, but do you happen to know (or estimate) how far are we in the manga from the scene where jinshi and maomao almost sleep together? If it's much then I might have to search for the LN but I rather see it in the manga. Thanks!
I can't say for sure but it would be long..at least for the Nekokurage manga (which is the one that gets english translations). The manga has been running for almost 7 years now and is in the middle of volume 3 of the novel. The scene you're waiting for happens in volume 13 of the light novel so..yea it would take really long to get there with the current pacing and monthly release schedule.
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