Take my words with a grain of salt ofc, but I actually train Gen AI models for a living, and there is zero doubt in my mind that Waterlily was at least partially written by AI. People can decide whether or not that affects their opinion of the story (I certainly have no room to judge considering my career) but I hope Klara doesn't rely on it so much in the coming updates because it's REALLY obvious, lol.
Hi, I appreciate you coming from a place of knowledge on the topic, I find your perspective very interesting! That seems to be what I’ve been hearing from people who work with AI far more regularly than I do. I’ve seen the same opinions from people more heavily involved in the editing and writing industries than I am.
I have actually been reading some fics that authors state are written by AI just to compare and yeah it looks pretty blatant the more I see. Some of that writing gets real repetitive and the tells become more and more obvious.
I think since my opinion has been affected it’s unlikely I will continue at this point but I am interested to see how it continues to read as it goes on and if the writing stays consistent in its feel.
But yeah, I agree that it’s just kind of up to each individual if that’s something they can handle. I just don’t like the idea of unknowingly paying for something that isn’t written by a human but that’s just my personal stance. It just depressing to me that RC may be heading in this direction.
So you're collecting evidence to prove to RC that Klara is using AI because you don't like her writing style?? Am I getting this right? That's dark. What is your goal? To get Klara fired because she uses popular writing techniques and is consistent in using her preferred stylistic devices? It would be more of a red herring for me if she wasn't consistent and her choices wouldn't make sense. I understand that the poetic tone is not everyone's cup of tea but to state it must be AI because you don't like the repetition and stylistic choices is a bit too much. Every piece of evidence you've collected could also mean that the story is written by a human
I actually really fucked with her writing style at first, it’s why I was championing the book and supporting it as much as I was. I’m not doing this from a “I just don’t like the book” mindset. I do in fact like the book. I was even annoyed seeing that people were accusing it of anything at first because it was my favorite story that had come out in a while.
Then someone began to show me all of the stuff they collected that pointed to AI use. It’s beyond what I wrote about (I just wanted to make a brief summary) and so I decided to do a reread after looking through articles on the signs of AI in creative writing. A lot more things stuck out to me upon reread.
It’s not really the stylistic stuff. I like seeing things like repetition and metaphors and ellipses and all that jazz. The problem is when they’re used in strange ways or are blatantly overused (if I read the word sharp one more time I’ll cry). It’s a little dishonest to boil that down to “what, you don’t like repetition?”. Those aren’t 100% flawless ways of finding AI, nothing is, but it’s by far the only RC story that’s made me concerned.
Frankly, I don’t want Klara fired, but if she’s using AI I want to know, I don’t want to support her stories if she’s doing so. Also, if RC is in any way knowledgeable about it, I would want to know, because it’s been a worry of mine since they started rolling out AI art that they would eventually allow it in their writing.
I know AI isn’t a dealbreaker for everyone, many people would support it cause they like it even if it turns out to be AI. I am unfortunately not one of those people.
Is sad that some of you already throw stones at Klara. Is ever come to your head she is actual REAL HUMAN BEING???? One day she go sleep and see people love her story, next day she is treated like police case for 'forbidden' AI writing. We see Reddit posts and this hypocrisy. First they accuse, then they say: "I am not trying to hurt Klara. I would love to hear from her, or maybe see the stages of her writing process. If she is not using AI, I am truly sorry for thinking so, and I will take this post down immediately"
Because of you, we lose beautiful story with 3 wlw routes. Thank you so much for ruin representation 🙄. Now, another story like this only come again when pigs fly. Good job😒
Hi! Hope you’re having a nice day <3
First of all, I myself have never claimed she is not a real person, I wholeheartedly believe that she is. I also am under the suspicion that either her, or someone else in the writing process of this book are using AI in order to write the book. These things are not contradictory.
I understand the problem with representation, I have stated multiple times I am queer myself and have wanted a book like this for a while. The last thing I am trying to do is ruin any sort of representation believe it or not.
My bigger issue however, is that I will not be supporting a book written by AI. To me it feels like theft from other authors and like it is antithetical to the point of making art. This is not even getting into other AI problems such as environmental impacts.
I would also like to point out that I’m not randomly thinking something is AI. I have never thought another VN story (idk I haven’t read the new Choices books) is written with AI. I strongly disagree with anyone saying Langley’s new book is AI and if I wanted to speculate on a book being AI, I’d probably go for a book I didn’t actually like.
Unfortunately there is a lot of evidence backing this up. Just this morning we found a whole can of worms we hadn’t even opened yet.
(If anyone has questions feel free to DM me or send an ask, it’s on anon if you wanna get mean about it!)
Dude, be careful with the Waterlily protectors, one of them even called me homophobic and racist when I mentioned AI-generated writing. Yes, the LI routes, which is the Romance Club's obligation in all stories, are perfectly balanced, but the point I was making is precisely the AI writing. The characters are perfect; everywhere there are more and more posts/edits about Tiffany, Luna, Declan, Fabian, Emma, and Xavier.
I say that I'm against AI being used in art and AI-generated writing, and the (blind) ones understand that I hate the story, the characters, and that Klara screenwriter.
It really sucks because as much as I see a lot of evidence pointing towards AI, I hate that it’s in a book that is giving so much sapphic rep and has diverse love interests.
I understand their defensiveness because I really want a book with this type of rep and would be worried if people were making stuff up just to screw up the books launch. I also understand that there have been more and more unsubstantiated AI accusations lately and I really feel for the authors that have had to deal with that. I also understand that these are not proven accusations and people have a right to be skeptical of them because of that.
I haven’t noticed as much on Tumblr but I definitely saw a lot of defenders on Reddit who seem very unlikely to even hear the evidence. My post about it was even taken down in the main sub. When it was up, I was dragged into a lot of bad faith arguments with people who did not read my post.
So yeah, I do understand where some of this defensiveness is coming from, the fandom has been desperate for this kind of book. Unfortunately, the more I read and the more I have been looking into AI writing, the less I feel I can defend the book.
Since Waterlily has been proven to be AI-generated writing, do you think we should all unite and start mass complaints on the official RC forums? Dude, nobody trusts visual novels anymore, where you can see the AI right away, down to the smallest details. They were saying in that same Reddit post, in response to Cordonia, that Waterlily has more poetic writing, obviously that's not the case.
I honestly don’t know what to do in this situation. It’s hard to accuse one way or the other because I really have no definitive proof that there is AI use in the writing. No matter how much writing evidence there is, there’s always the chance Klara just writes like that.
I would however, like to at least email RC about it. However, I doubt they would ever admit if they are using it because they have done the same thing with using AI in their art.
Additionally, I doubt the fandom would be united in the slightest to question AI usage given my post on Reddit addressing it was just mass removed lol. Maybe Telegram? But I’m not on there and idk how the Russian fandom would react to this.
My disclaimer: please go into this post with an open mind and know that as of this point I am not accusing RC of anything, I am merely bringing up concerns, specifically concerns about their new book Waterlily.
I would like to mention that I am against AI being used in a creative writing way on an app that is specifically for visual novels, if that isn’t something that concerns you that’s fine and you may not find anything in this post to be of note. You may also just find my evidence to not be compelling, that is completely fine.
Second Disclaimer: This was put together by @cordonia; she has worked very hard to go through much of this and is working on a more in depth document citing as much as she can.
I feel like since they’ve started using AI to do most of the art in these books I have worried about the inevitable: AI use in the writing of stories.
Which brings me to my main claim: I believe that RC and Klara have used AI, at least to a certain extent, to write Waterlily.
If you feel uncomfortable with that I completely understand, it was one of the books I have been most excited about and genuinely enjoyed. I have made posts praising it and only two days ago I would have had defended this book wholeheartedly.
In the past day unfortunately I have been presented significant amounts of evidence that show that the writing has many of the hallmarks of AI. At first I was confused and denied it but the more I have looked into it, the more I have realized the severity of the situation.
I cannot feasibly list everything in this post that has been curated showing AI usage but I would like to give some examples that have been particularly egregious to me. All of these are things that are seen regularly when using generative AI in creative writing.
1) Heavily repeated words.
- For those have heard of the book Shy Girl, you know that it was revealed to have been made, at least in part due to AI. One of the big things noted in the book was the overuse of the word “sharp” as a descriptor. This book unfortunately not only had this problem, but has it in part with the very same word.
- Sharp is repeated 17 times, including 7 times in one chapter. This includes many lines where most humans would likely not consider that to be the optimal word for the situation. While that’s also possible to be human error, it’s the pure amount of times it is repeated that gives me pause. Examples: “some truths are too sharp to say out loud”, “he inhales sharply”, “is grin widened, sharp and delighted”.
- Other words that are so far noticeably used repeatedly include: heavy, weight, spine, and memory. They’re not insanely overused but they are used pretty consistently in similar metaphors and contexts (such as both the lines “the memory burns” and “the memory releases me” in the same chapter). Memory in particular seems to be a word often repeated by AI.
2) Repetitive and Fragmented Sentence Structure
- A common gen AI writing style seen is short fragmented sentences, some examples from WL include: “I looked away first. Heart hammering. Throat dry.” “Not like that. Not in a sad way. In a poetic way.” or “Me at the edge. Tiffany beside me. The shift in weight. The push. The fall.”
- In less than the first three chapters this is seen at least 20 times (there may be some not spotted yet, and more in the remaining two chapters).
- Again these are commonly used writing tropes on their own but the sheer amount is unusual, even among something like fanfic (which ofc AI has been trained on).
3) Mirrored Dialogue Cadence
- Again this is shown at least 13 times in the first three chapters alone. While this is a common writing quirk, it is very common in this story.
- Some examples include [Riley: “It's called repetition for emphasis.” / Declan: “It's called a limited vocabulary.”], [Lily: “Stop sulking. We're having fun.” / Riley: “You're having fun. I'm having heatstroke” / Lily: “Same thing.”], and [Fabian: “Girls tend to like my confidence.” / Riley: “Girls tend to like a lot of things that are bad for them.”]
4) Overuse of Similes:
- This includes both ‘like’ and ‘as if’ statements.
- Again if any of you know of the Shy Girl drama, you know that book had a severe over reliance on similes, many of which make less and less sense when thought through.
- While I like a lot of the imagery in this book, looking at the similes in one document together raised many red flags.
- A total of at least 46 similes are used in the five chapters of WL that are currently out (since this more have been recorded, there’s more than 20 in chapter one alone). That’s almost ten a chapter. I know many people enjoy writing flowery language but this book has an over reliance shown in examples such as Shy Girl.
- Some just first glance examples that I find to be a little unusual are “a touch so gentile it feels like a secret” or “in the corner stands the easel, draped like a corpse”.
5) The Dramatic Pause
- Ok full disclosure: I love an ellipses, truly I do. But it gets to a point. When there’s over 55 uses of them in just 5 chapters it raises some red flags for me. These are seen in dialogue from every main character as well, it doesn’t read like a character quirk from any one person.
- I guess some examples: “Yes... I guess you always did have a hard head.”, “Your hands are... questionable.”, or “To stay in there. Most people would find it... haunting.”
- Idk if I even need to include those, I’m sure most of you know what ellipses are. I’m sure many of you are also aware of gen AIs overuse of both ellipses and asterisks so I don’t know if I have to explain this one as much.
6) “The Kind Of”
- Another thing noted as being common in gen AI writing is using the phrase “the kind of”. This is seen in WL in lines such as “A harp. Gilded and gleaming. The kind that belongs in a concert hall, not a bedroom.” and “The kind of voice that's learned not to give anything away.” These aren’t the only examples but a full list of them hasn’t been compiled yet.
7) “not —— but —.” or “no —-. No —-. Just —-.”
- This is an extremely common thing to see in gen AI writing. I bet even if you don’t know too much about it, you may have heard about this at some point.
- For instance “I’m not lying, I’m just managing”, “No expectations. No pressure. Just live the summer.”, “No pretense. Just sound.”, or “He didn’t want everyone. He just wanted to be wanted.”
- I’m not fully sure how many of these there are total since they’re still being curated but there certainly seem to be many so far.
Some final thoughts:
AI has been trained off of human writing, so to an extend most creative writing will read in some ways similarly to AI. This is why I am hesitant to even accuse Klara of using this amount of AI. It does seem suspicious though that she possessed a large amount of the writing quirks seen in AI. Many of these sparingly or individually don’t raise any red flags to me but the sheer amount raises uncertainty.
If it is true that RC is moving in a direction that either encourages or allows AI to be used in the writing process, I would feel less inclined to support them. It’s unfortunate but I truly don’t understand the point of making visual novels if not to have someone write the novel. AI steals from other artists and I consider it to be theft, I am very hesitant to support a company that encourages theft.
So yeah, that’s the thoughts of today, I apologize for the ramble. Again thanks to @cordonia for the hard work she has put into examining this book. There will be much more added to her current document looking into this and I’ll update this post in reblogs as more comes out.
Again please know I wouldn’t be making this post if it was not a major concern for me. I was very into the book when it came out but I worry now that this is showing a bad direction RC could be going in.
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbeKTa5xhZo&t=1961s - I watched this and unfortunately saw some things that reminded me of Waterlily, hence why “sharp” is a major tell for me.
Where should I start with Waterlily? Seeing more people in Tumblr being objective about it vs the Reddit sub it's sending me because how you can't notice the constant repetition and over flowery dialogue?
I feel like if I am taking crazy pills!
I am actually making a brief summary post right now! It’s not as detailed as it could be but I think it’s a decent look into some of the things that have been noticed. I’ll post in the next hour or so I think.
Summary: And anger can be nothing more than a cover for a sea of feelings.
Tagging: @rc-catalog
-You need to learn to control that mouth of yours.
The door slammed as soon as he pulled her inside. She had no time to notice the tidiness of the room or the contrasting mess that filled his desk before his body pressed hers against the just closed white painted wood.
Riley remember a dinner many years on the past where Mrs. Fairchild had spend almost the entire evening explaining the different types of wood they had used on each floor. But for some reason, as Declan caged her head between his arms, she seemed to have forgotten everything about it.
His browns were furrowed in a way they only ever got with and because of her, a slight red tinted the apples of his face and the top of his ears, and his eyes were focused deeply on hers.
He was angry at her.
Again.
And, as usual, it didn't make any sense. It was always him that reached out, it was always him who provoked her, it was him who pulled her inside his room and pressed her against a wall. If anyone got any right to be angry, it was her.
And that only made her want to make him even angrier.
-Oh so it's my fault now?
-You need to stop saying things without thinking. What if that noise was Mrs. Fairchild or Amelia?
-That was no noise, you absolutely lost it.
-You've got to be kidding with me.
-You're so scared of your little facade to fall that you're starting to hear things.
He pulled away from her to run both his hands through his head. His fingers pulled his hair, making it messier than she has ever seen. She didn't move a single step.
He refused to look at her, and still his cheeks had only grown redder. He was tired of that subject coming over and over again.
She couldn't let this go.
-Please, shut up.
-All this to protect the little prince's pristine future! I'm tired of this.
-And don't you think is protecting your future too?
His voice was sharp like a whip although he clearly tried to control the volume of it and his eyes were sharp when he caged her between himself and the door again. She didn't try to run or pull away.
Her eyes kept focused on him, the venom ready to spill out of her mouth. His refusal to talk about it only hurt her and made her want him to feel at least half as hurt as she did. She wanted to break that self restrain he still held to. He wanted to make him scream and tear himself apart. She wanted to be the reason for it.
-No.
-You're ridiculous.
-You asked me a question, Romano. I gave you an answer. I think you only think about yourself and about what you want.
His eyes got colder and his voice got rawer. Their faces were now merely millimeters away from each other. Neither pulled apart. Because pulling away would mean being scared, because pulling away would mean being wrong. And in that room almost nothing screamed as loudly as their pride. Almost.
-You have no idea of what you're saying. I'm telling you, we have to be careful.
-Why?
Such a simple question. One that surely was only meant to make the argument grow even more. But he committed the must fatal mistake, the most venous of sins, he looked down to her lips.
Simply for one second, only for long enough for her to see it, only enough for the light on his eyes shift into something different, something she didn't know how to name, something she knew he never meant for her to see.
Their lips were on each other's on the next second.
It was impossible to determine who pulled in first, and if they were ever to talk about it one would certainly pin the initiative and the blame on the other, but Declan's hands were already both on her waist, his fingers sinking in her clothed skin in a way were it seemed like he wanted to leave marks behind and Riley's hands were already on his neck, in a weird mix of chocking and pulling him close.
All his fighting urge seemed to evaporate from his body as water boiling when a metal was dropped into it. She could feel his shoulders relaxing by the muscles on his neck, and yet his hands only gripped her waist with more force. She knew it would leave a mark behind, she wondered if that was his goal.
It was all too hard. It had too much teeth. It was too painful. But when she licked his lips, Declan parted them, sighing in a way sounded almost like drowning.
And Riley smiled against his lips. Because he had finally got quiet, because she was winning and he was losing and succumbing, because she could taste a metallic sting on the tip of her tongue and she knew it was his blood. Because she didn't know what tasted sweeter: his lips, his blood on the knowledge that she had won.
That was, until he pulled away from her, just enough to take her in his arms and carry her across the room, busing his mouth with open kisses on her neck while they didn't reach his destination, sitting her down on top of his work when they did so, and positioning himself in the middle of her legs, immediately and purposefully biting the skin just under her ear.
She should want explanations for the sudden change of scenery and the silence, but his hands freely exploring her hips and legs while his mouth keep marking her in every bit of skin he could find made it impossible to focus into anything but his touch.
He should want absolutely anything other than this. He wanted to make sure that the marks left by his teeth were high enough that nothing shorter than a turtleneck would be able to hide them. He should want anything but he wanted to tear apart her blouse and mark the skin under it. And so he did. His fingers slowly climbed up her thighs, her hips, her waist and suddenly stopping there.
For the first time ever since they started this he looked up to meet her eyes. She knew he was searching for either consent or for her to pull away. But the sudden openness she found for the first time ever since they met was too much for her. Seeing him completely devoid of the mask he had always carried was too much. It was too vulnerable, to soft. They had no space for that. She shouldn't want for them to.
So she merely crashed her lips against his, over and over again, until her need for closeness was drowned by the taste of his blood, until her nails carved their space on his back. Until someone knocked on his door to call him up for dinner and they tidied themselves without meting each other's eyes.
Until she left in silence and the only proof what had happened was their scared skins and the crumpled papers of that desk.
Warning: hetcomp {implied}, bullying {Tiffany's pov of the pool "incident"}
Rating: T
Word Count: 1.188
Summary: Tiffany had always known what was expected of her.
Tagging: @rc-catalog
The Fairchild Manor hadn't changed a single thing after all those years, except for massive and almost overwhelming number of light colored flowers and fairy lights that already shined in the middle of the afternoon. That surely wouldn't have been the way Tiffany would've arranged the space, but for the little that she knew about Amelia Fairchild, her mother surely was the one responsible for such arrangements.
She could see the woman's refined and almost antiquated touch in the entire space, but she assumed that made sense. If the Fairchilds were deprived of the choice of the groom, they'd surely be fighting to be able to make every single other decision. The decoration was almost as boring as the company invited for the event.
A crowd filled of empty faces and who all lacked even an ounce of allure. Surely there was enough bachelors in there to make her parents more than happy to send her off to there, but no matter how well she pretended or flirted with the gentleman her parents would approve, as in they were all as interesting and involving as block of pyrite.
Everything lacked shine and any sort of spark that one would expect for a three-month long weeding. Everything was the same boring shades of beige and the same empty conversations that she forced herself to partake in for who she was and how she had been raised like and for.
She should be used to it, really. Her entire life had basically being a training to those types of moments. She had to participate of all those events and talk to as many potential matches that she could until she found herself a husband worthy of her parents approval. Then she'd get married and start popping up his children and take care of his house. And one day she'd be organizing her child's engagement just like RS. Fairchild had done. She just hope her taste stayed a bit better.
And although that life has always been exactly what she had been raised for, she couldn't help but feel a dullness that came from the utter lack of the interest she felt as she drowned in that sea of bloomed flowers and shades of beige until she felt a gaze so strong it almost burnt her skin.
The crowd parted almost in a mockery way to reveal that same face that annoyed Tiffany so deeply. As if in a sick and twisted game to force her into seeing what she didn't see. Who she didn't want to see.
Riley Pierce was already looking at her when Tiffany's eyes found hers. Her browns were both furrowed in a way it only happened when she was extremely mad or annoyed, like when Declan tried to steal her notebook or when Lily left her Togo see Julian.
Now that was bound to the fun.
Her feet took her towards the girl as if they had their own will and no one dared to stand between the two young women, just as it was supposed to be. And just like her feet, her arms seemed to have their own conscience, because before she could process anything, her arms were pulling Riley close and closer, almost painfully.
She could almost feel the scent of the sea salt on the top of the girl's hair as Tiffany slowly rested her chin on top of the other girl's head. Riley went stiff on her arms. Refusing to either participate on the affection or to pull away from it.
And like an animal in a cage, she had nowhere to run to. Her hand slowly creep up Riley's back,only stopping when her hand met the bare skin on the nape of Riley's neck. Only then Tiffany pulled away to look into the other woman's eyes, her smile the most real and most venous than it had been the entire day.
-Riley, you came. -Tiffany's eyes scanned Riley carefully and slowly, as if she had the entire day and the God given right to do so. The smile almost dropped when she saw the small bandage on the woman's head. -I heard about your little accident, must have been so scary.
Her hand gives a deliberate squeeze before leaving the girl's nape and reaching for her arm, lacing them together. That cage wasn't any less restrictive than the last one, it was simply more socially accepted, more friendly, on paper less possessive, but looking into Riley's eyes Tiffany knew that they both knew that wasn't the case.
Tiffany simply keep walking, pulling the girl by her arm. Talking about the accident and how Riley was simply so lucky to return unscathed unlike some other people. Taking about Lily's room, about ghosts. And she could see it, clear as a day how Riley's patience was thinning with each word she spoke, how red her face was beginning to redden, how she was talking nonsense and waving a piece of paper. That only made Tiffany talk more.
-You're histerical, Riley. Maybe that crash scrambled your brain more than we thought.
Her complacent smile only made Riley madder.
-Don't play games with me!
-Oh sweetheart, I don't need to. Reality is cruel enough without my help.
The poolside glistened with the water that lapped over the tiles, shining in a particular different light with the setting sun, dragging both women's attention to it.
-You know Riley, I'm glad you ended up coming.
-You are?
Riley's eyes mirrored how she doubted what was being said, but she didn't pull away when they stopped closer to the pool. She didn't pull away while Tiffany kept rubbing her thumb against the inner part of Riley's forearm. She didn't pull away when Tiffany got closer and her eyes gazed Riley's lips.
-But you seem to be a little frantic… Maybe a little shock will help you clear your head.
Riley didn't even have the time to answer before Tiffany accidentally tripped her towards the pool, watching and smiling contently as she sunk.
And she waited patiently to see Riley's defeated expression when she submerged and how pathetic she'd look with that white floral dress clinging to her skin.
She waited so Riley could see her face first thing when she came to be.
And she waited.
And she waited.
And she waited.
She waited while Emma jumped after Riley and while Amelia's fiancée jumped to save them both.
She waited while Riley coughed out water from her lungs and while her brother showed up late to the rescue and felt entitled enough to touch Riley.
She waited while Riley tried to blame such unfortunate accident on her and while she felt silent went their eyes met.
She waited until Riley got tired of all of them and left the garden.
Then, there was nothing else worth waiting for.
Tiffany ignored her brother's searching gaze and questioning eyes, simply turning around to leave that now completely hollow space.
But as she did that, she saw an heir her mother had previously showed her pictures of.
