SweetDreemurrs! @sweetdreemurrs - Tumblr Blog

In response to the hamsterboy callout post…

(I did try to reblog it but tumblr is bugging out so I’m forced to reply like this.)

Okay… So I read through this and have to point out some things.

1. Anyone can send in anon-hate. Are you seriously suggesting that I personally send in anon-hate to every single person I dislike?

I don’t even have enough time to answer my OWN anon-hate. (My inbox has 200+ asks and a fraction of that is hate or trolls.)

Have you considered the possibility that it may just be people with similar opinions? Lots of people share my opinions on things and I’ve actually been impersonated twice (that I know of).

I’m not petty enough to send in hate. The only people I send asks are my mutuals or cool people I follow. Even then, it isn’t very often. I just don’t have the time. (I’m doing this close to midnight since I’m just now getting around to catching up on social media.)

2. I’m not ableist at all… I only made maybe, three or four comments and they weren’t even THAT derogatory. In bad taste maybe, but I never meant anyone any real harm with those comments. ESPECIALLY to those affected by those conditions. I’m one of the most PC people I know IRL. (Hell, I’ve defended LGBT+ friends and mutuals in the past and have butted heads with a lot of phobic people.) Not to mention some of my best friends IRL as well as a few family members have various conditions and I treat them as equals. It isn’t like I use those types of comments ALL the time. In fact, most of the time I just use stuff like “dumb” or “moron”. Technically, those are also slurs but literally no one treats them like slurs because they are such common words. I also called people stupid because they were blatantly ignoring the facts I was posting. (You can ignore criticism but you shouldn’t ignore ALL of it.) Honestly, for you to pick out a few instances out of hundreds of posts and debates, I have to declare you a sjw. Well, actually you proved yourself to be one with the following topic.

3. Yaoi is bad.

Yaoi, by definition, is a genre about homosexual BOYS aimed at and usually written by GIRLS. If you do not see the issue with that, then you have a problem.

You need to look up what Bara is because that is at least written by homosexual males for homosexual males. But sure, fetishize an entire group(s) of the LGBT+ community.

You can’t support yaoi if you are trying to be PC…

4. I don’t have accounts on porn sites. Not only that but if I did, I’d probably just use my own username. If that person claimed to be me, they are lying. Also, Piixie literally commented about my comment on the Asgoriel server and joked “This is why you don’t art at night.” and we laughed. Like, my comment wasn’t even hateful. I was joking that for a panel she didn’t give Toriel a chin and she AGREED with me.

Again, I’ve been impersonated before. This is not the first time this shit has happened.

If I forgot to mention anything, I’m sorry. It’s super late at night and I don’t have the time to look through a ton of slander right now.

Some things are true but a lot of your claims are false.

Tl;dr,

I have a few spiteful fans who probably sent that stuff or it was someone impersonating me. I have no fucking clue. It wouldn’t be difficult at all to copy and paste the evidence links I’ve used in countless debates. (Especially the ones with a lot of notes.) Also, it’s not like it would be hard to act like me since I have several writing quirks that can be copied.

I have zero time to do that stuff. The most I do is comment and that is a public thing that shows your username. Even then, I try to avoid having gross stuff on my dash in the first place.

Side Note: Just saw that other post. I’m guessing that was pixiv or something similar due to a thing someone on the Discord showed me. I can’t even read Japanese at all (as much as I would like to be able to) and that site is honestly annoying to navigate.

sweetdreemurrs

Look at the tags of my other post for a bit more context.

#Mod Post #Asgoriel #I stayed up an extra hour for this...#i'm going to bed lol

asgoriel-stuff

✿⭐️ASGORIEL WEEK!!⭐️✿

HELLO AGAIN, IT’S TIME !

✿ When? April 16th through April 22th !!! ✿ Where? This blog!! ✿ What is it? An event for creators of all sorts to show their appreciation for this fantastic pairing with prompts for each day that creators can align to if they would like. Or y'know, you can just make some Asgoriel art. You can participate no matter what kind of art you do : fanfics, drawings, music/remix, sprites, aesthetics … everyone is welcome ! ✿ How can I participate? There are two ways to participate in the event!! You can either: ⭐️Mention us together (@asgoriel-stuff) or either of us individually (@kanaking or @georgetheblob) so that we can track down your post. AND/OR ⭐️Tag your post another asgoriel week so that we can track it down that way. The reason it isn’t just “asgoriel week” is because, well, there have been other Asgoriel weeks and we need to be able to find posts made for OUR Asgoriel Week. ✿ Rules? Keep it SFW and respectful to others, please. And try to not make it suggestive or anything, I’m french and I might not understand that it’s a joke so I won’t reblog it.

⭐️PROMPTS⭐️ This time it will be themed on the “S” letter :D

✨DAY ONE: SPORTS (◕▽◕✿) Those lovely goats needs to do some sport to stay in shape!

✨DAY TWO: STARS (◕ ꒳ ◕✿) If cows looks the trains, why goats can’t look up and admire the space and the stars ? Stargazing together, angst about not seeing the sky again ? Make us dreem!

✨DAY THREE: SLEEP (´ ꒳ ` ✿) A healthty goat eat well and sleep well too. Show us what you can do!

✨DAY FOUR: SPELLS (◠‿◠✿) Those two know how to use magic! Doing magic to impress the other, or just those two doing magic together ? It’s up to you !

✨DAY FIVE: SEASONS (◕∇◕✿) Spring, under the Sunny Summer, maybe playing in the Snow … I got nothing for the last season with an “S” but you get what I’m saying xD.

✨DAY SIX: SEDUCTION (◕ᴗ◕✿) OKAY CALM DOWN, The idea behind that is flirt but it wouldn’t fit the “S” theme xD. Make them flirt together, or maybe just one flirting with the other ? Who knows?

✨DAY SEVEN : FREE (◕ᴗ◕✿) Be free and let your imagination go wild :D ! … Yeah that one is totally out of the “S” theme … but what do you want ? xD

Remember this event is for fun, you shouldn’t force yourself ! I hope you will all have fun and I can’t wait for your creations !!! <3 Flower （✿ ͡◕ ᴗ◕)つ━━✫・*。

#Mod Post #Asgoriel

rawring-rainbows

Villains can be bad and we can love them for their flaws, don’t ignore what they did to others just because you think they are cute - By tumblr user mcavoy

didnt wanna tag them just incase i started some crazy drama

Hes soft and loved by others yeah but hes a villian to the people toriel and the parents/loved ones (Which includes toriel) of those dead children

and he didnt help the whole “Monsters will kill us and take our soul” sort of look the humans had Yeah he had good intentions but lives were still taken even though there was better ways of handling it

hamsterboy3

Asgore is not even close to being a villain because he constantly subverts what a villain does.

1. He actively tries to prevent deaths by mandating spike removals and adding flowers to places where people have likely died.

2. He actively looks for other solutions. Instead of taking a single soul and dying like Asriel, Asgore instead relies on his royal scientists to try and figure out another way through the barrier.

3. Asgore never kills anyone. Three of the six souls have actually been subtly hinted as dying either in accidents or in self-defense. Patience is shown to have died by falling in one of the pits in the Ruins. (Proof being where their items are, the warnings, and the fact that Toriel bothered to take leaves from all the way in front of her home to the pits to act as a cushion.) Justice is implied to have fallen into the dump where their items were found by Catty. Golden Flowers are in the dump as a posdible cushion or memorial. Integrity is implied to have actually killed monsters as their clothes are dusty and feel dangerous. Asgore is also shocked to see Frisk implying they are the first to make it to him alive.

4. Asgore consistently gives Frisk the opportunity to leave. Asgore gives them the choice to follow him several times and even asks them to do whatever they want. Even after their fight, Asgore will choose to sacrifice his own life to give Frisk their freedom in hopes of a peaceful solution being found on the surface.

5. Asgore regrets his actions and truly just wishes to see his family again and has depression as a result.

6. Toriel doesn’t even hate him and constantly blames “them” (her people) for being so quick to support war as an option. The only reason she is cold to Asgore is because his solution was taking too long due to him not understanding Alphys’s problems. After the credits, it is shown the Dreemurrs are friends once more if not more.

7. Frisk canonically chooses to forgive him, treat him as their father, and by default will say that the Dreemurrs will reunite over time.

I can list more and you know it.

rawring-rainbows

TL;DR all of it

Holy shitsnuts dude

You’re not toby fox you can make all the headcannons you want doesnt mean its true litterally i dont remember seeing anywhere toriel saying she only blames her people she literally says Asgore WILL KILL U and he does several times lol plus everyone says the items in different places is proof thats where they died but like Your ribbon in your hair could fall off while your running or while they’re getting around the kid probably lost it while toriel and them were hanging out and toriel was looking everywhere but never found it

U act like u know this for sure but u dont all im saying is everyone acts like hes super sweet and innocent just cause he acts cute but hes not

hamsterboy3

I see you STILL haven’t taken any grammar lessons after the last time I demolished your reasoning.

1. She blames “they” first before mentioning Asgore as she truly does not want to view him as a killer.

2. Asgore is forced to fight Frisk because of his duty. Also, you completely ignored the fact that he kills himself so Frisk can have a gappy life.

3. Patience died in the ruins. That is what the facts imply. Unless you have evidence to counter this, you can stop talking.

4. Asgore is sweet as it’s part of his complex character. What game did you play? Oh right. You clearly didn’t. Character erasure is bullshit. Stop trying.

#Mod Post #asgore #undertale

rawring-rainbows

Villains can be bad and we can love them for their flaws, don’t ignore what they did to others just because you think they are cute - By tumblr user mcavoy

didnt wanna tag them just incase i started some crazy drama

Hes soft and loved by others yeah but hes a villian to the people toriel and the parents/loved ones (Which includes toriel) of those dead children

hamsterboy3

Asgore is not even close to being a villain because he constantly subverts what a villain does.

1. He actively tries to prevent deaths by mandating spike removals and adding flowers to places where people have likely died.

2. He actively looks for other solutions. Instead of taking a single soul and dying like Asriel, Asgore instead relies on his royal scientists to try and figure out another way through the barrier.

5. Asgore regrets his actions and truly just wishes to see his family again and has depression as a result.

7. Frisk canonically chooses to forgive him, treat him as their father, and by default will say that the Dreemurrs will reunite over time.

I can list more and you know it.

#Mod Post #Asgore

Great blog, really enjoying the story, but, I've noticed that the "The Dreemurrs’ first christmas together on the surface…" link in the Story Page doesn't work, it be appreciated if you could fix it, thanks!

Sorry you had some issues! It’s an old glitch that has plagued this blog before. Everything should be in working order again now. Also, not everything is tagged/story related so be sure to click on individual character tags too. Also, fixing that error allowed me to reread a lot of stuff which was really fun and nostalgiac. I really regret not having the time to work on the blogs more. Especially with how many asks I get/have. I have 200+ in my inbox but just haven’t had time.

#Mod Post

As if Soriel shippers couldn't be more morally bankrupt... Friisans used the shooting in Parkland to say that the Rapture is coming. I am not kidding. She posted it the day after the shooting, by the way.

I went ahead and checked their blog to make sure this is factual and…

Holy shit. What the actual fuck.

IT WAS A SCHOOL SHOOTING.

Yep, God clearly had a plan with that…

And He’s certainly going to purge us all because some psychopath managed to get guns in a country where you can easily buy firearms off of sites similar to Craigslist.

This isn’t an issue about God.

This isn’t an issue about religion.

This is an issue with gun-control and how we monitor safety.

*Sigh.*

This is why I’m agnostic. So I don’t look or sound like pious conservative morons who equate everything bad as “It’s the end of the world and we are all going to Hell.”.

Like, yeah, we are all going to Hell. We’ve all done shit. But you know what? Hell isn’t even that bad. Hell is based on what you did as a person.

Allow me to educate you on basic religious stuff. (It’s extremely easy to learn about really but people who follow hearsay always get stuff wrong.) There are several (sometimes hundreds of) circles/rings of Hell. Each designed to punish specific people for specific sins and misdeeds. Satanael/Lucifer, the Morningstar, had to be given something to do when God sent him to Hell. Because if he and other demons didn’t do their job… It would quite literally be Hell on Earth.

But sure, listen to some crazy nut who says the end of the world is coming.

If it was going to end, it would have happened already.

Friisans is clearly one of those pious drunk aunt stereotypes. And that actually explains quite a bit…

And looking at some of the notes it would appear that KatieMarie999 reblogged it as well. And we all know how she felt about the LGBT+…

I can say more but then my askbox would be full of petty religious nuts trying to damn me to Hell.

If you are so pious that you really think the world is going to end after we’ve ignored so many shootings prior, then you are really ignorant.

#Mod Post #I can already tell I'm going to get hate but whatever.#Friisans #What the fuck is wrong with you?#How about you pray for the victims?#Or their families and friends?#Fuck off Friisans.

get-that-shit-off-the-internet

You know, I'm a bit confused about why you think Asgore himself would be a toxic individual. While i definitely agree that the relationship itself would be toxic for both parties due to how much both dreemurrs have hurt each other, what we see of Asgore's behavior toward others seems fairly nice? I mean, I think in game dialogue is enough to determine how kind hearted Asgore is towards other monsters. I feel like it's more what they've been through than Asgore himself that makes asgoriel toxic.

Ok..You’re right you’re being very civil i apreciate it.. i was just madAnnoying asgoriel shippers who cross tag in the soriel tag and dont look at toriels point of view made me dislike asgoreBut the character himself isnt badThe relationship would be toxic because they would be constantly be reminded of what happend to them and asgore would be haunted by what hes done of courseBut toriel would be looking at her old love with heartbreak cause that was the man who killed her children those children she tried to protect who most likely before frisk escaped the ruins to be murdered soon after or when they got to asgore When he didnt have to not only give those monsters false hope and murder those she tried so hard to protect But scared herWe dont know what happend between them he could have terrified her she could have clawed his face she could have walked away without saying a word and he didnt stop her cause he was intent on going through with this crazy ideaWhat we do know is it would be INSANE that they would work it out enough to be together again and act like nothing happendExample: If a friend of yours got back with their partner after they had sex with someone else do you think that they could just let that go? And have a healthy relationship again? What if said partner did something more serious like trying to kill theyre beloved pet/child? Or hurt them? You think even if said partner was kind to everyone it would be ok?Or changed and has always been a nice guy? No-Mod burgerpants

mamar11

EXACTLY

Even as an Asgore fan, I AM annoyed when people completely ignore his flaws and act as if Toriel is 100% bad. Granted, I do prefer Asgore over Toriel, but they’re both morally grey characters, and ignoring that is ignoring what makes them such interesting characters in the first place. I love Asgore BECAUSE he fucked up and declared war, BECAUSE he killed 6 humans, and BECAUSE he goes as far as to commit suicide in front of Frisk. I’m sick of people treating him as a cinnamon roll, because cinnamon rolls don’t do that

And yeah, while I do think forgiveness isn’t out of the question, I still feel like them getting back together wouldn’t be possible, and if it happened, wouldn’t be healthy at all

I often see the “Asgore needs to be happy” argument, but I have serious doubts he would be happy for long being with the person he hurt so much, not to mention it’s not like Asgore is all alone in true pacifist, he has an entire kingdom that admires him.

That said I’m done talking about it because I don’t wanna sound like I’m shipbashing, and I DO understand why some people like asgoriel, even if I don’t agree with it.

And I’m glad we could have a civil talk about it, because that kind of thing is rare when it comes to discussing ships and favorite characters

dreemurr-skelememer

HEY

THAT?

THAT’S PERFECT

get-that-shit-off-the-internet

@sweetdreemurrs

sweetdreemurrs

I want you to read everything I have to say and then read it again because I know for a fact you guys can be illiterate sometimes when it comes to long posts that refute every single one of your ‘points’.

First of all, to get it out of the way, it should be noted that anything @mamar11 says should be counted as hearsay at most since they are extremely obsessed with Sansgore. (Asgore is clearly straight and Sans is clearly aroace you aphobe…) @dreemurr-skelememer I can sort of forgive if only because they actually enjoy canon Asgoriel and have Sans as a funny third-wheel. (That said, Sansgoriel is just not going to work. The Dreemurrs are far more likely to adopt Sans than date him.)

“You know, I’m a bit confused about why you think Asgore himself would be a toxic individual.”

‘A bit’? Asgore isn’t toxic at all so why are you only ‘a bit’ confused? As a self-proclaimed Asgore fan, you should be able to fully support him. Not this wishy-washy ‘support’ you give him just because you are a fujoshi who forces characters into gay relationships purely because ‘it’s cute’. Being a fujoshi is what is toxic.

‘While i definitely agree that the relationship itself would be toxic for both parties due to how much both dreemurrs have hurt each other’

Looks like you never played the game… Asgore and Toriel were MADLY IN LOVE FOR CENTURIES. Also, if you paid even the slightest bit of attention to the story, Toriel leaves not because Asgore declares war in a moment of weakness, but because her people actually agree with it and want Asgore to do it. Toriel left because of her people. Not Asgore. In fact, Toriel clearly states that she stops the fight between Frisk and Asgore in order to prevent ASGORE FROM DYING.

\E2... and ultimately^1,&it would burden you&with a horrible&choice./ J To leave this place^1,&you would have to&take the life of&another person./ $ \E2You would have to&defeat ASGORE./ \E4However..^1.&I realized.../ \E1I cannot allow that./ G It is not right to&sacrifice someone&simply to let&someone leave here./ C \E4Is that not what&I have been trying to&prevent this&whole time?/

Yes, she reprimands Asgore for his actions but SHE NEVER CLAIMS TO HATE OR HARBOR A GRUDGE AGAINST HIM. Again, as an Asgore fan, shouldn’t you know this? These basic facts? As for Toriel, she didn’t leave to hurt Asgore. She makes it VERY clear that she left so that she wouldn’t be forced to watch her people turn him into a killer. Asgore doesn’t even blame her in the slightest. (Which is part of why people put her on a pedestal…) Even post-credits it shows that they are willing to forgive each other for their actions and cooperate. That is the main theme of UnderTale after all. It makes SO MUCH SENSE STORY-WISE TOO. What ‘happy ending’ makes it so that two main characters don’t have a happy ending? To make it work, UnderTale DELIBERATELY ends on the note that Asgore and Toriel are back together or at the very least, are on that path. Keep in mind that the other characters ship Asgoriel as well. (Alphys thinks they are both attractive and cute together and thus they become her OTP, Undyne is Asgore’s adopted daughter, Papyrus and Sans just want their friends to be happy, and Frisk, Asriel, and Chara all see the two Boss Monsters as their parents with Frisk having an entire conversation with Gerson about it.) “Take care of Mom and Dad for me, okay?” -Asriel, 2015.

‘what we see of Asgore’s behavior toward others seems fairly nice?’

Because he’s a fuzzy pushover who is genuinely nice? He’s a martyr for his people because THAT IS HIS DUTY AND HE LOVES HIS PEOPLE UNCONDITIONALLY DESPITE THEIR FLAWS.

‘I mean, I think in game dialogue is enough to determine how kind hearted Asgore is towards other monsters.’

‘I think’ isn’t very reassuring. Again, you should be able to support your ‘favorite’ character.

‘I feel like it’s more what they’ve been through than Asgore himself that makes asgoriel toxic.’

What happened was that Asgore was wrathful that his children was murdered and said that he wanted humans dead in his grief. Toriel knew he didn’t mean this but the people didn’t and wanted him to follow through. It is Asgore’s role to do what the people want. NOT TO MENTION THAT IT WAS LITERALLY THE ONLY THING GIVING THEM ‘HOPE’. A VITAL COMPONENT OF A MONSTER’S SOUL. Asgore had no choice but to do what his people wanted because the only other option was to watch the rest of his people ‘fall down’ and die. Asgore weighed the choices. A handful of lives or an entire race? Toriel was simply upset he had to choose at all and tried to avoid losses on either side by stalling the fallen humans. (Which never worked since they were suicidal in the first place…) In a way, Toriel supported Asgore and was actively trying to prevent him from killing anyone. (Whether or not Asgore actually killed anyone is unknown but at least one of the humans was murderous and two others were shown to have died before reaching him.) Either way, Toriel goes out of her way to save her soulmate and eventually works with him at the school showing that she still cares deeply about him. How is Asgoriel itself toxic if they still care deeply about each other?

‘get-that-shit-off-the-internet answered: Ok..You’re right you’re being very civil i apreciate it..’

At least mamar11 attempts to use proper grammar… Also, when have you guys ever been civil? You blatantly hate Asgore as a character which I have PROOF of.

‘i was just mad’

Acting half your age isn’t ‘mad’. It’s childish. But then again, it is you guys…

‘Annoying asgoriel shippers who cross tag in the soriel tag’

Pfft, I haven’t even done anything in the past year. I’ve been dealing with IRL shit like getting my associate’s early or meeting the insane rent my state has. Even when I’ve had the opportunity to, I haven’t tagged Soriel. Go ahead and throw your shade. Your aim sucks too much for it to actually hurt.

‘and dont look at toriels point of view made me dislike asgore’

I’ve looked at Toriel’s perspective several times. Also, preferring one character over another clearly shows you are BIAS.

‘But the character himself isnt bad’

Then why do you have so many posts saying the opposite? You clearly hate him.

‘The relationship would be toxic because they would be constantly be reminded of what happend to them’

And why would that matter? Asgore and Toriel are likely in their 800s (Most likely around 835-845.) and their separation was four decades at most. If you do some simple math the amount of time they spent apart is NOTHING compared to how long they were together. This means that they are more likely to think of the positives than negatives. Again, Asgore holds nothing against Toriel and Toriel doesn’t once claim to dislike Asgore. And AGAIN, they work together meaning they’ll eventually bond (If they have not already…) which leads to them getting back together regardless.

‘and asgore would be haunted by what hes done of course’

How does that go against Asgoriel in anyway? Just because he dislikes his own actions doesn’t mean he cannot still be loved. In fact, Toriel would actually help his PTSD DRASTICALLY. Every time he has a night terror? He wakes up in the same bed as her which reassures him everything is fine. What happened to Asgore and Toriel may affect them personally but it wouldn’t strain their relationship once they begin healing. You saying they will never recover is actually very concerning and I’m sure countless people with conditions like PTSD would hate you for assuming such a thing.

‘But toriel would be looking at her old love with heartbreak cause that was the man who killed her children’

WHERE DOES IT SAY HE KILLED THEM? GIVE ME ACTUAL PROOF. Also, these were suicidal or, at the very least, depressed children without homes. If Asgore did in fact kill them, it would be either considered manslaughter due to the circumstances or mercy kills seeing as THE ENTIRE UNDERGROUND HATED HUMANS for a good couple of decades. Toriel at most would blame Asgore a bit but as the game suggests, she mainly blames her people.

‘those children she tried to protect who most likely before frisk escaped the ruins to be murdered soon after’

So not Asgore’s fault at all…

‘or when they got to asgore’

Proof? The game says that no one ever got to Asgore alive meaning that they all likely died before even meeting him.

‘When he didnt have to not only give those monsters false hope’

‘Hope’ is literally a component of a monster’s soul, so yes, he HAD TO.

‘and murder those she tried so hard to protect’

You keep insinuating that Asgore killed the fallen humans but have zero evidence.

‘But scared her’

False. Toriel specifically mentions ‘they’ will kill Frisk before even mentioning Asgore. Toriel is more frightened by the Underground’s mob mentality than she is of her husband killing someone. Why? BECAUSE IT’S NOT IN ASGORE’S NATURE TO KILL. Hell, Asgore DRAGS IT OUT AS LONG AS POSSIBLE, giving Frisk SEVERAL opportunities to leave and do whatever they want. He even holds back in the fight because he would rather die instead. He only holds on because it is his duty as king to be there for his people.

‘We dont know what happend between them’

We do actually… The game says she left the day after his announcement. There wasn’t a big fight or anything…

‘he could have terrified her’

Pfft, Asgore wouldn’t do that to his wife. Plus she’s known him for centuries. She wouldn’t be afraid of him ever.

‘she could have clawed his face’

Both Toriel and Asgore are pacifists so I doubt she would use violence.

‘she could have walked away without saying a word’

That is what happened. The fact you had to GUESS shows you don’t care about UnderTale at all…

‘and he didnt stop her cause he was intent on going through with this crazy idea’

He wasn’t ‘intent’. In fact he put up a facade to aid the humans. He ordered the removal of spike traps, wanted the Royal Guard to CAPTURE humans, not kill, and again, dragged out the fight with Frisk for as long as he could.

‘What we do know is it would be INSANE that they would work it out enough to be together again and act like nothing happend’

Not really. Again, both Asgore and Toriel were against the plan and tried to go against it in secret. They also already work together at the school and are raising Frisk by default. There isn’t much in the way of them talking things out and reconciling at all. ASGORIEL IS NOT TOXIC AT ALL.

‘Example: If a friend of yours got back with their partner after they had sex with someone else do you think that they could just let that go?’

Cheating is a different thing entirely and has nothing to do with Asgoriel as neither one would ever cheat on the other.

‘And have a healthy relationship again?’

Asgore and Toriel would naturally need to talk things out and start out as friends again but nothing is in the way of them reconciling as they are equals and share the same values.

‘What if said partner did something more serious like trying to kill theyre beloved pet/child? Or hurt them?’

Asgore never tried to hurt anyone and even says so. He actively prevented as much bloodshed as he could. And it worked seeing how Frisk actually managed to make it to him in the first place. Since Asgore never really tried to kill Frisk (and Frisk forgave them for everything regardless) there is no reason for Toriel to hate him. Also again, IT’S NOT MURDER IF YOU ARE FORCED TO COMMIT IT. Learn some legal terms…

‘You think even if said partner was kind to everyone it would be ok?’

Again, Asgore has not committed any actual crimes and you are clearly bias against him.

‘Or changed and has always been a nice guy?’

‘changed’ and ‘always’ can’t be in the same context like that. Seriously, take an English class or something…

‘No’

Yes.

‘mamar11 EXACTLY’

You do know who you are agreeing with, right? These guys hate Asgore with passion.

‘Even as an Asgore fan’

I’m revoking your right to call yourself that seeing as you just said you agreed with these morons.

‘I AM annoyed when people completely ignore his flaws and act as if Toriel is 100% bad.’

Both characters have flaws and actually compliment each other well. Toby Fox literally made them for each other on purpose…

‘Granted, I do prefer Asgore over Toriel’

ARE YOU SURE ABOUT THAT? Because after that shameful display of defending Asgore, I doubt you truly do.

‘but they’re both morally grey characters’

Not really… They are both pacifists who like humans. They were simply forced into their situation because their people can be dense as hell. Toriel abandoned her people to try and prevent humans from interacting with them while Asgore tried to stall for time while his Royal Scientists (Gaster/his assistants and Alphys) tried to bypass the barrier through different methods.

‘and ignoring that is ignoring what makes them such interesting characters in the first place.’

Then why do you people blatantly try to disprove Asgore and Toriel still love each other?

‘I love Asgore BECAUSE he fucked up and declared war’

Yeah, he fucked up but he repents for that constantly and tries to make up for it as best he can.

‘BECAUSE he killed 6 humans’

WHERE IS YOUR EVIDENCE. Asgore did not kill anyone and is guilty of zero crimes. YOU SAY YOU LOVE ASGORE YET THROW HIM UNDER THE BUS? Fuck. That. Bullshit.

‘and BECAUSE he goes as far as to commit suicide in front of Frisk.’

He sacrifices himself for several reasons. He doesn’t want to kill anyone, wants to see his kids again, wants Frisk to go to the surface so that they can get help, and trusts Toriel to take over the throne in his absence. He kills himself because he is a martyr and loves everyone that much. If you think about it, he died so that everyone would be free. He thought, ‘WWJD?’ and died for their sins basically.

‘I’m sick of people treating him as a cinnamon roll, because cinnamon rolls don’t do that’

So what you are saying is that you hate people who have attempted suicide. Real nice of you… He was literally giving up his life for Frisk. If you have an issue with such a sweet sacrifice, you can kindly fuck off with your bullshit.

‘And yeah, while I do think forgiveness isn’t out of the question’

Then why argue it?

‘I still feel like them getting back together wouldn’t be possible’

Why? They clearly still care for each other and everyone else is for it. What is stopping Asgore and Toriel from reconnecting?

‘and if it happened, wouldn’t be healthy at all’

It would be just as healthy as it was before. Relationships don’t just magically deteriorate. Toriel would have to actually hate Asgore for their relationship to turn toxic. And she never does hate him. IF YOU THINK CHARACTERS HATE HIM WHEN THEY CLEARLY DON’T, WHY DO YOU CONSIDER YOURSELF A FAN OF HIS?

‘I often see the “Asgore needs to be happy” argument’

What happy ending doesn’t have happy people?

‘but I have serious doubts he would be happy for long being with the person he hurt so much’

He literally welcomes her back into his life the moment he sees her. What game did you play? Asgore may hate himself but he doesn’t hate the love he has for his wife and vice versa.

‘not to mention it’s not like Asgore is all alone in true pacifist’

He literally is. He does as much as he can to protect the humans lives while putting up a facade.

‘he has an entire kingdom that admires him.’

How is that a negative?

‘That said I’m done talking about it because I don’t wanna sound like I’m shipbashing’

Too late for that. After your shameful display of hating on Asgore’s history and mixing up fact with fiction, you no longer have the right to be a fan of his.

‘and I DO understand why some people like asgoriel’

It is literally canon. LOOK AT THE FACTS AND REMOVE YOUR SKELETON-LOVING BIAS.

‘even if I don’t agree with it.’

If you disagree with canon facts, you are not a fan of UnderTale. Plain and simple.

‘And I’m glad we could have a civil talk about it’

You are completely bias and don’t even know the facts.

‘because that kind of thing is rare when it comes to discussing ships and favorite characters’

Because you don’t even begin to understand character motivation…

God. You guys really need to read up on stuff or play the game more…

mamar11

Okay so

JUST the “mamar is aphobe you shouldn’t take into account what they say” part

Caused all of this to happen in a discord chat

Good fucking job hamsterboy because I’m still fucking dying of laughter atm

dreemurr-skelememer

IM CRYIGN FUCKING GOLD

thIS IS WONDE R FUL

FUCK

thevoidismyhome2000

@sweetdreemurrs

I understand where you’re coming from…but please don’t insult people…and some of what they’re saying makes sense…and this:

‘‘I’m sick of people treating him like a cinnamon roll because cinnamon rolls don’t do that’

This cursing is uncalled for, but also…Marmar wasn’t referring to the piece before about suicide. They meant that people put Asgore on a pedestal when sometimes characters who DO have flaws shouldn’t be put on a pedestal.

Every. SINGLE. Character in Undertale has a flaw that makes them not perfect. Pedestals shouldn’t be involved. Here:

Toriel: Yes she loves the human children, but she also tried to FORCE Frisk to stay and when Frisk tried to leave, Toriel MADE Frisk have to choose between FIGHTING or FLEEING. IS that the sign of a pacifist? I think that is a hypocrite who says violence is bad but still tries to make a pacifistic child fight them.

Sans: Everyone here probably is aware of the flaws in Sans, Papy, Alphys, Undyne, and Metta so I can skip these…unless someone wants to call me insulting words and names simply because they don’t agree with my interpretation of the facts.

Undertale is about interpreting the situation, which is why each person SHOULD play it and get different routes so that they have something to add…each person is unique…and you seem to Forget that when Toriel is killed in genocide…when does she mention the ‘love of her life’? All she says is stuff about being like them and asking if the player hates her that much. If I were DYING and knew my true love’s name, I’d say that instead of doing that bull on my final breath. You know, leave the world at peace with a smile on my face?

Anywho

Asgore: Maybe he didn’t kill the kids, but it also doesn’t say that he didn’t do so. You made this point several times that HE MIGHT NOT have killed the kids. I find it weird that someone who CLEARLY KNOWS SO MUCH glossed over the fact that ‘NOWHERE DOES IT SAY THAT ASGORE DID NOT INFLICT HARM UPON THE KIDS’ especially when you factor in that EVERYONE clearly says to Frisk ‘you should be afraid of Asgore’ and ‘You won’t get past Asgore’…now why would they seem to know this fact for 100% if Asgore DIDN’T KILL HUMAN CHILDREN???

I’m not hating the ship, fandom, or characters. I’m simply making sure you ALL don’t have this ‘hate asgore’ ‘love asgore’ one-sided bias. As @sweetdreemurrs themselves mentioned biases, so I’d hate for you to miss out because your bias got in the way of you truly seeing the opposition’s argument.

Everyone here is arguing like a child…mainly after @sweetdreemurrs because they started it by downright INSULTING people for simply HAVING AN OPINION…Thank you for reading this, and I hope you have enough maturity to be done with this, because if you guys can’t get along…then why are you even debating this? I’m neutral so don’t even TRY to involve me. Buh0bye!

sweetdreemurrs

1. The swearing and capitalization was purely for emphasis. I'm actually don't even swear IRL. I simply felt that emphasis is needed due to the fact that I have had these debates before with these people.

2. I understand that each character is suffering. I'm the one arguing that the most often actually. If you go through their blog and mine you can find several posts where I have depicted Asgore and Toriel as equals while they put Toriel on a pedestal and demonize Asgore. In fact, I can easily link you to countless discussions about these topics and more.

3. Toriel did not force Frisk to fight. Quite the opposite. If you remember the context, Toriel was merely attempting to scare Frisk but would never seriously harm them. Think of it as being the same as a grounding, spanking, or love tap. (Granted, those are all different measures of punishment but you get the idea.)

4. Simple. Sans is nihilistic due to his past and is too lazy to do much other than laugh and support his bro. Papyrus tries to reassure himself that he is popular despite the fact he is essentially a nobody. (No offense to him.) Alphys has depression and dependency issues although that is fixed by her admissions and everyone's acceptance. Undyne is impulsive and destructive and actually had to serve community service once. Mettaton attempted to separate himself from his past so that he could rise to stardom. Ignoring his humble beginnings caused his ego to swell. Asriel was sheltered and didn't have any other friends besides Chara, making them easily influenced. Flowey only had fragments of Boss Monster soul, essence, dust, etc. and thus lacked much of a superego, allowing his id to run the show out of frustration and curiousity. Chara was a child who likely came from a broken family or several bad foster families which might explain why they hated humanity so much.

5. Asgore and Toriel's flaws and positives are the following:

Asgore is a bit slow to new concepts and tends to be more passive. As a result he can be a pushover which led to him being forced into a situation he could not get out of. His family is everything so he was understandably furious when his children were killed. Without his family, he is a broken man and was only able to wear a true smile when he was going to sacrifice himself to save Frisk and the entire underground. He wanted to see his wife and children so badly which further worsened his depression.

However, due to his style of thinking, he was able to plan ahead. Thus, Alphys was hired to find an alternative way while he ordered spike removals and other safety precautions. While it was a very slow process, he was slowly able to pacify most of the Underground which helped Frisk befriend the monsters.

Toriel is open to new concepts but is quick to judge and can be very rash in her decision making. Due to her stubborness, she is very difficult to reason with and she often faces internal struggles as she is often too stubborn for her own good. (Should Frisk stay/go, who is at fault; Asgore or the monsters, should she forgive Asgore since she is equally guilty?, etc.) Due to her thinking style, she left New Home in a hurry soon after Asgore's declaration instead of trying to reason with the monsters or literally any other possible solution. She did seem to realize the flaw in her plan upon reaching the Ruins but her stubborness forbade her from returning. Thus, she convinced herself that keeping the fallen humans in the Ruins was the safest plan of action while Asgore stalled for time.

I could list a lot more but I've done tons of Asgore and Toriel character essays, analyses, etc. which you can easily find and/or I can link you.

6. You are mixing up her genocide and betrayal dialogue. Either way, I've done analysis on them before. In Genocide she asks, "Do you hate me that much?" before dying. For her betrayal she mentions that you are just like 'them'. This further alludes to the fact that she feels that her people betrayed her and that she feels they are to blame. Not Asgore. In fact, she never blames Asgore. The only thing she critiques him on is that he could have theoretically used one soul and carry out a similar plan to their children. Of course her rash words seem to have forgotten that this is the action that lead to their deaths.

7. Several things have alluded to the fact that Asgore is innocent of killing:

Characters imply no one has ever made it to Asgore. This means they died before their bodies were sent to him.

Descriptions of items allude to at least one of the children killing monsters. The tutu and shoes are described as dusty and dangerous.

Where items were found can help us figure out how they died. For instance, Justice/Yellow seems to have fallen from Waterfall to the Dump like Frisk did. Their items were likely knocked off by impact which is how Catty later found them. There are now flowers in the area which could have been put there by Asgore as a memorial and to prevent any more dangerous falls.

8. Again, I've done countless essays on these characters, lore, science, monster biology, etc. I know this game front and back. I, and several others, am simply done with people's bullshit. (Crackshipping and/or extremely poor logic without evidence.) As a result, I don't sugarcoat things much. But trust me, I could be much, much, meaner. You are lucky I sugarcoat things at all. I have the evidence to back up my statements unlike others and that should be enough.

#Mod Post #Undertale #Asgore #Toriel #Asgoriel