#**by veronica

[fatihdaily]

Ayşe Hafsa( Sultan Selim I'd wife/concubine) gave birth after Suleyman and she gave birth to two daughters after him to be specific as far as i remember, Also Mahidevran gave birth to at least one child after Mustafa ( one of them is a sultana named Razia or something like that) and i once saw that she gave birth to two şehzades after şehzade Mustafa but they died young so the rule of one wive/concubine one son was broken since the era of Selim I han

The end of Selim I’s reign? So during Süleyman’s reign? Because yes, the one concubine-one son rule was broken by Süleyman during his reign when HÜRREM became his concubine. When he was a prince during Selim’s reign, both he and his father adhered to the one concubine-one son rule. It was only after he became sultan when Hürrem became his concubine that the rule was broken. That’s why it was revolutionary. Hürrem returned to Süleyman’s bed and had five sons with him. A normal concubine would only have ONE son because it was expected for her to put all her focus and energy on ensuring that her son eventually became sultan because if she didn’t do her duty and prepared him and protected him, her son would have died when his brother ascends to the throne. 

From Leslie Peirce’s Empress of the East:

When Suleyman first encountered Roxelana, he already had four children. Mahmud was eight years old at his father’s accession, Mustafa was five, and their brother Murad an infant. They also had a sister, whose birth date and name (perhaps Raziye) are uncertain. With the possible exception of Mahmud, they and any others who had not survived infancy were born to Suleyman in Manisa.

Mahmud, Mustafa, and Murad each had a different mother, as the Ottoman politics of reproduction demanded. The rationale was that each heir presumptive deserved his mother’s undivided attention as coach and partisan in his future candidacy for the throne. As for Suleyman’s daughter, she may have shared a mother with one of the boys, since there was no limit to the number of female children a concubine might bear before the birth of a son put an end to her sexual relationship with the sultan.

– Empress of the East, Chapter 3

Also, by October 1521, Murad, Mahmud, and Raziye died, leaving only Mustafa until Mehmed came along soon after. 

If Mahidevran was Raziye’s mother, then she had Raziye before Mustafa. If Raziye was born after Mustafa, then it was to another concubine. If Mahidevran had a son AFTER Hürrem’s arrival, then your argument doesn’t work either because by that point, Süleyman changed the reproductive policies. 

In any case, unless there’s an academic publication & historical records out there that can prove otherwise, the one concubine-one son policy was only broken when Hürrem entered Süleyman’s harem after he became sultan. The sultans before Süleyman adhered to this rule. 

If you could provide us with the academic publications with historical evidence that state otherwise, please share. It would be wonderful in fact because we are always ready to learn. 

[fatihdaily]

hello! is there an instance where a high ranking woman from an old/foreign family did gave birth to a son or daughter (except ayse hafsa)? were all the marriages celibate? also did a sultan before suleyman broke the one slave-concubine/one son rule?

Hello back! 

Ayse Hafsa was not a high ranking woman. She was a concubine and a former Christian. There is no proof that she was the daughter of a noble.

Now, as for the women who were of noble birth, who married the sultan, and who had his child, we have to look to the early days of the Ottomans. By the mid-14th century, most (if not all) royal children were born to concubines. Royal/noble brides married to the sultan were pretty much just there for political reasons. 

The ONLY 100% known royal marriage between a sultan and a royal/noble bride to produce a child was Orhan and Theodora. Orhan, Osman’s son, married Theodora Kantakuzenos who was the daughter of the Byzantine emperor, John Kantakuzenos. Orhan and Theodora had a son together named Halil. 

As for any sultans that broke the one concubine-one son rule before Süleyman? Post mid-15th century? No. 

But before that? Can we be 100% sure that it was the policy BEFORE Mehmed II’s time? No. Too many gaps in the records. Leslie Peirce states in Chapter 2 of The Imperial Harem that it’s a possibility that this one concubine-one son policy was possibly ALREADY in place during Orhan’s time since their is evidence to make such a conclusion, however, with the gaps in the records before the mid-15th century, it’s hard to jump to the conclusion. Still, we can at least be sure that post mid-15th century, the one concubine-one son policy was already in place because we, thankfully, know the names of the concubines who gave birth to the sultan’s sons & each one who had a son with a sultan before Süleyman’s time only had one son.  

– Veronica

[fatihdaily]

What do you mean exactly by saying "he had an affection" for Gülbahar ?

Well, as I said in the post, the Ottoman harem was primarily a reproductive institution. These women were primarily there to bear children for the sultanate.  Remember that just because you have sexual intercourse with someone and they have your child, doesn’t mean you have affection or love for them. Pleasure and lover were not a factor; the only thing that was important was having a child. 

So, Mehmed having affection for Gülbahar means that he probably saw her as more than just the woman who bore his children and perhaps was friends with her and saw her as family. Anything beyond that is absolutely pure speculation. Now, I say probably and perhaps because we don’t have any evidence that he felt anything like romantic love for these people in his life, all we have is this information that he had affection for her in his bios. Of course absence of evidence isn’t evidence of absence, however, as Franz Babinger puts it, “there’s no grounds for supposing” that he felt anything beyond familial . 

- Veronica