#amalgaknight

[darkxwolf17]

Kriselle Amalgamate design for no reason in particular

(Can be Interpreted as Knight or not)

[skunkgender]

kriselle knight origin story chapter 7 leak 100% real

[cenamdere]

I keep seeing people shoot down kriselle amalgam knight because "time travel isn't a thing in dtarune" but I feel like I'm taking crazy pills because SAVING AND LOADING AND RESETTING IS DIAGETIC, RIGHT???

I know right? I mean like time and space as a concept in this game has been directly implied to work very weirdly in this case, especially considering the man implied to be running this whole game is LITERALLY SHATTERED ACROSS 'TIME AND SPACE'. To bring up every single timespace weirdness in question that I can think of:

The clocks shown in this game don't change even when you go in at completely different times. The most egregious and obvious one is the classroom. There are no examples of clocks that actually change over time between Chapters in the story. Given how easy it would be for Toby to change how the clocks look, this implies that Toby did this intentionally.

There are explicit moments in this story where a time loop is implied to be occuring, even as far back as Chapter 1 with Kris' save point dialogue and Jevil's dialogue as well as multiple moments in Chapter 4 from Kris, Susie, and even the guy who stands near the Jockington prophecy panel.

Even considering the spatial aspect alone, not only are there places in Hometown we literally can't see that we know we can't because if you try to map it all, the buildings and trees wouldn't line up. We even have implied boundaries for us, the Player, through the trees, the police tape, and most relevant, the lake.

It's also important to note that Sans, Gaster's number 1 guy for ignoring the laws of space and time is notably in this game and literally TELEPORTS BETWEEN SCENES IN CHAPTER 4 AND 5!!!

Does anyone even remember what his geno dialogue in Undertale was? Why does he even have reports for 'a massive anomaly in the timespace continuum' as though he's been studying this shit for a long time? Does that not imply ANYTHING CONCERING about Deltarune given that he is there and is implied to have shown up recently just like in Undertale? Doesn't this imply Sans is looking for an anomaly in Deltarune?

In regards to what Toby himself has personally said about the game specifically, he notes this about the connections between Undertale and Deltarune:

There's also the whole how many endings are there in Deltarune, because people think Kriselle Knight couldn't work if the Weird Route had its own unique ending:

The Weird Route's whole deal to me seems like the Player speedrunning the game ignoring the physical and psychological harm they're causing Kris and Noelle because they're curious, want to avoid the fate of the prophecy and want to know the destination instead of appreciating the journey and the characters.

Allow me to state how I personally hypothesise Kriselle Knight ending up in this story. As a starter, I will be assuming the following which will be relevant for later: that Noelle will be made into 'the Second Hero' on the Weird Route and that the Final Prophecy is the deaths of the First and Second Hero. Firstly, I believe the implications from the 'other side of the lake' being similar to the barrier from Undertale are true. A fusion via amalgamation will occur due to the heightened Determination at that point and will fuse them into a black monster, akin to the one shown in the Sword Route, which can be implied if we presume Roots Theory is correct about this. (Note: the black monster being a black deer that copies Kris, can be controlled by the Player, and is killed by Kris when we try to get too close to attack.)

Next, we will go to the stated 'Nowhere' place that is shown through the binoculars at the Mancountry in the Chapter 3 Egg room. This is believed to be possible if the similarities to the MOTHER 1 Breadcrumbs Glitch are true, as well as the connections between going Nowhere and suicidality clearly implied by both Kris and Noelle in this game as well as the implications from the Bibliox about it being bad to go Nowhere with someone else.

Nowhere will look like a monochrome copy of the Light World, and due to interactions those 2 will have here, this will prove definitively from Noelle's perspective the following:

Noelle's similarities to the Player/Kris mentioned in Chapter 5 WR (seeing the world through glass, feeling like someone else is controlling her body) will become even more explicit, through her learning how the Red Soul's literal diagetic mechanics work (therefore learning why Kris had been acting different) and learning about Gaster not just being the creator of this game world (His Deltarune), but will also learn it was created from an old world.

From this meeting with Gaster, she will come to also learn of DEVICE_FRIEND, who will suggest a deal: they will give this Kriselle her a means to stop Dess' disappearance, an event that has tortured both Kris and Noelle with trauma for a long time, from ever occuring through giving them a way to travel back to the roots just before the event occured by means of making them an anomaly as well as a weapon (The Black Knife) as a way to fight against the one who could cause Dess' disappearance by trapping the culprit in a place where they can't possibly do anything to Dess.

They will take this shady deal, they will get lost where the forest would grow, the children will follow the pointed tail. Oh, the poor children!

Noelle will believe she is assured that she will succeed at saving Dess, because she is strong and therefore can do anything. However, given we can only proceed... and proceeding has only resulted in a violent outcome... due to the Red Soul's and this world's limits, the outcome cannot be created where the Red Soul and Dess both can exist on the same timeline. After all, when we first got here, Dess had already disappeared. And if we aren't here, the Light World cannot become 'real' and allow Dess to be real as well. Noelle's hopes will die here and she will fall into a deep despair, making rivers with her tears. Kris' guilt for this event will become even stronger and will be desperate to take the responsibility for this away from Noelle.

They will try over and over again to try to change the outcome, but their choices will not matter. The darkness shall outweigh the light, corrupting it, turning it from a heart that knew love to an eye that knows LOVE and can see in the dark. They will see Gaster and the Red Soul as enemies that made this horrible world what it is, a world where choices don't matter.

In their rage, they shall make a promise that they shall not forget. They will destroy the old world, destroying it's illusionary existence through the Roaring whilst protecting this world's Lightners through kidnapping them whilst flying with wings and trapping them in ice like a Gallery and sacrifices their bodies and placing their souls into artificial, crystalised, indestructible 'work-out ready bodies' covered in strings so that nobody will have to suffer abandonment.

They will create the Angel's Heaven, a Holy NEO Dark Fountain. The Knight will become an Angel, a supernatural figure that rules over this new world they've created. The only thing limiting them is the Prophecy that holds back their hand from doing everything immediately.

The Knight will go from being an innocent victim of circumstances they could not control to becoming a villain in a world that revolves until they achieve the outcome they desire. In the end, there will only be 2 outcomes. Freedom or Death at the hands of Susie, the one who wields the white pen of hope. After all, when all hope is lost for the tale, the final tragedy unveils. To save the worlds, there is only one way. The cage and the girl must be banished away. Only then, will the words be saved. The Angel, banished, will finally meet with its desire. The Knight's banishment means they won't have to suffer anymore.

[meminieques]

write-up about my amalgam/hyperdeath kriselle knight thoughts & what might prove it VS what might disprove it

the past few days have left me really Ruminating over this idea, because i personally think that there’s a lot of evidence in-game that suggests it very well might be real, and it answers a lot of questions that other knight theories tend to gloss over out of inconvenience (which is just part of the nature of theorising about unfinished games, by the way, not a statement on how "right" those other theories may be). so i've decided to put all my thoughts on the matter here! Let’s Take Kriselleprofen Together 🫴

spoilers for both routes of chapter 5!!

part 1: “when did you start being yourself?”

we now know thanks to chapter 5 that the knight's first (definite) appearance was at the scene of The Incident that made asgore lose his job: a dark world that susie assumes was made by the knight thanks to the presence of a black shard at the scene. i'm not sure i personally believe that's true — i think the fountain in question is the one in the bunker, which probably predates the knight entirely — but we have no evidence for that right now, only what the characters themselves have said.

this is probably (but not definitely) the night dess disappeared, which coincides with whatever happened to kris that required them to need therapy. asgore seems to be the only person who actually went inside whatever dark world was within, though kris may have been inside as well (and obviously in this scenario dess was taken within). carol knows of the dark worlds and the fountain in the bunker because she’s obsessed with getting dess back: asgore found the black shard that’s now in her possession, meaning she’s probably the only person he genuinely managed to convince what happened was real (hence which is why she’s been so supportive of him). just as an aside to the above, he does seem to be talking to rudy specifically in that ch4 scene in noelle’s house, which makes me think rudy knows more about the dark worlds than we're giving him credit for. who else would believe asgore no questions asked? carol’s obsessive but she and asgore don’t exactly seem close enough for him to be calling her “old friend”. point to you, rudyknight truthers…

based on this info, it's very possible that the knight already existed prior to dess’ disappearance. “the pointed tail”, which may or may not be image_friend, is very likely the reason why dess and kris were out there to begin with, and which lured dess into the dark. it might have done this to turn her into the knight, but why? possibly 1) because the prophecy says so, or 2) because it was the cruellest option, but either way we know now that the knight was there. maybe dess was immediately turned into the knight the moment she stepped into the bunker, but we don't have enough evidence to say that for sure, which means the knight very well could have been someone else. but how could kriselleknight have been there if it didn't exist yet? well...

part 2: “left home due to happiness”

deltarune is a meta-textual narrative. the mechanics of deltarune as "a video game" are deeply embedded in the fabric of DR’s universe, especially the dark world, but given that kris still uses the same menu UI as undertale there’s probably still an aspect of it in the light world too. like flowey in UT, WR noelle has begun to see beyond the scope of her own existence: her life is a predetermined story, and she is a “character” just like everyone else around her (this is what i think the red dot is, by the way: not noelle developing a human soul, but her developing determination equal to flowey’s). she wants to break free of the path she’s been coded to walk, and takes our messing around with deltarune’s narrative through the use of the WR as explicit confirmation that this is in fact possible. she wants to see what exists in the beyond, so she uses kris (who she knows is a conduit for this sort of thing) to break the bonds of her own existence.

by taking kris into the lake, beyond the predetermined boundaries of their town, she manages to send them both rocketing directly to the end of the story. they aren’t dead, they’ve just gone Beyond. and so, if it’s possible for them to skip directly to the end of the story, who’s to say they couldn’t have gone to the very beginning? as far back as they possibly could, to "somewhere no one has ever been before": a place in time that we, the players, have never been.

for the record, i think calling them an amalgamate isn’t really accurate — they’re more likely to be akin to asriel in UT after absorbing chara’s soul. meaning that yes, technically the knight would be just noelle with kris’ soul, but we know from asriel’s dialogue in UT that chara had control over their body, so kris’ consciousness would still be in there anyway. my theory is that the boundary breaking Would make them merge akin to an amalgamate, but not as what the amalgams actually are (melting monsters with too much determination) and more as “we were never meant to go this far and have glitched together into something less than the sum of our parts”. they would be broken and ugly and look more like a creepypasta antagonist than anything. it would also likely destroy any higher functionality either of them have: their thoughts and goals would become simplistic, basic concepts and reflexes, and whatever gets through would be whatever thoughts kris+noelle agree on. such as...

part 3: “find her”

so: the knight is creating dark fountains (confirmed cyber world, 1st + 3rd sanctuaries). some of the dark fountains have been made by kris (tv world, flower king). the knight’s fountains and kris’ fountains are always the same, visually. why?

prior assumptions have been that it’s because kris and the knight share a goal, which is likely true. but what does kris actually get out of working with dessknight? maybe nothing — it's very possible they're only doing it because carol is blackmailing them, and because they feel guilty for whatever happened Back Then... but that doesn’t explain dess’ motivations. i don’t think dess as herself would want to bring about the roaring, and i don’t think kris does either. but if dess is being puppeteered, then surely that puts her goals at odds with kris, the hero? nevermind whatever carol has to do with any of this — she likely just wants her daughter back, but what does the end of the world contribute to that goal?

what i’ve been thinking about is this: maybe the knight, as it exists, does not actually Want to bring the roaring about. frankly i don’t think it cares either way. assuming that the knight is WR kriselle, then the logical conclusion is that they are simply doing whatever they can think of to get dess back, who kris knows disappeared into the dark somewhere. what other goal would kris and noelle share so potently that it becomes their entire identity? everything that went wrong between them happened because of that day. if they could go back and fix it, why wouldn’t they? if they could find her first, why shouldn’t they try? it doesn’t matter if the world ends. they’re not capable of that kind of forethought anymore. they just want to find dess. which would tidily explain carol and NR kris' contributions to the plan: if dess can still be saved from wherever she is, there's no amount of fountains they wouldn't agree to opening, even if that means bringing about the roaring as a consequence. for the record, this entire theory does operate on the assumption of a closed time-loop: dess cannot be saved by kriselleknight because the prophecy dictates that the knight must battle the heroes. because dess cannot be saved, kris must accept (our) the soul's influence. because kris must be controlled by (us) the soul, there is a possibility that (we) the soul take them down the WR. basically, even though this theory assumes kriselleknight can go back to the point where dess was taken, it doesn't actually change anything. anyway

part 4: so why doesn’t this work?

issue no.1: "if dess isn't the knight, what's the point of her character?" is a question i keep seeing people ask, and it baffles me because it's not as if toby fox hasn't made other characters just like dess who very specifically only exist to be referred to and rarely if ever seen. chara has maybe (if you count the flashback sequence of them with the dreemurrs) two on-screen appearances ever, and only one scene where they address you directly (regardless of whether you subscribe to narrachara theory or not). they are also referenced constantly throughout undertale, primarily by flowey for obvious reasons, but also by other NPCs and bonus flavour-text like the books frisk can interact with throughout the underground. does their haunting the narrative make chara any less of a character? does it make them any less beloved by the UT fanbase? it doesn't, so i'm not sure why dess would be any different.

issue no.2: if the knight is kriselle, and their goal is to try and find dess by making dark fountains in the hopes that one may lead them to her, what’s up with the whole “police sacrifice” thing? i genuinely can’t think of a single good reason for why this is. i mean, like i said before, i do think kriselle knight would be fairly mindless of any thought other than Find Dess, so it wouldn’t occur to the kris side of their consciousness to protest against sacrificing their own father — but that still doesn’t explain why it’s necessary at all, no matter which knight theory you subscribe to. and it seems weird either way for NR kris to be cool with their dad potentially dying regardless… are they really being blackmailed so thoroughly that they’d gamble asgore’s life? is carol really so cruel that she'd let undyne and asgore die to bring her daughter back? i don't have answers to these questions. this is the biggest problem i personally have with this theory, because it's the only aspect i can't find a good explanation for.

issue no.3: a lot of this is based on supposition and guesswork and connections that make sense from one angle but not from another. like yeah, it Is weird that the knight’s sword initially appears as a bat, and i do think trying to claim kriselle are imitating dess because of their admiration for her is a weak explanation for that (though the knight’s weapon Is called a knife in both the prophecy and their battle theme, which i fear undermines the significance of the bat in exchange). i saw someone on twitter point out that ralsei says directly in ch4 that gerson can only exist as a darkner in specific DWs because the person who makes the fountain needs to be one of the deceased’s “loved ones” (though i do feel that kind of undermines dessknight too because sure he was her teacher, but a loved one…? one could assume that maybe kris knew him as a family friend because UT asgore and gerson were old war buddies, so maybe their DR counterparts were friends too, but there’s nothing to suggest that’s true either). there’s also the fact that the secret backtrack scene at the end of ch4’s dark world plays a note from dess’ guitar, which definitely seems like a point towards the knight being her, and i honestly don’t have a rebuttal for that one that’s just straight up suspicious lol. no matter which knight theory you personally subscribe to the most, what remains consistent is that there’s at least one fact hinting that it Could Be the truth, and another that contradicts it. which i think speaks to toby's skill as a mystery writer personally!

issue no.4, and this is the sticking point for a lot of people: how can the knight be WR kriselle if you as the player don’t do the WR? if we are the soul, interfacing with DR through gaster, then how can the WR happen without our input? my view on this is that it doesn’t actually matter. this theory is primarily about the knight existing as a nebulous Thing beyond the boundaries of the game itself. the knight is in the very fabric of deltarune; it is a part of its code. we the players are the ones who make that branching decision, but kriselle knight is already a foregone conclusion. not in the sense that you Have to do the WR, just that it Could Happen, and so long as it Could Happen then there is a universe where it does, because the possibility is literally written into the game. deltarune is a group experiment that gaster has asked many people to contribute to. some of them are almost definitely going to do the WR! which makes it an inevitability within DR's world.

and yes, maybe that means having to go back and replay DR from the very beginning, but that's not exactly unusual for a toby fox game. everyone knows by now that undertale is the game you play without killing anyone, unless you go out of your way to kill everyone, but i think people have forgotten that the expectation was that you play the game first your way, and flowey explains how to get the "best ending" to you afterwards. which, yes, is sometimes supposed to involve replaying the entire game, because the expectation is that you would have killed somebody on your first blind playthrough — either by accident, like with toriel, or because you played it like a classic RPG and didn't think it mattered. deltarune in comparison is almost easier to replay, because 1) the WR starts in chapter 2, so you don't even need to bother with ch1, and 2) chapter 5's "WR" is a single segment of gameplay and cutscene which then sends you directly to chapter 7(b). so the only thing stopping anyone from doing that is their own discomfort, which is fair! but you can't say it would be strange or unfair of DR to expect it from you, because it really isn't.

conclusion

i think this would be an awesome twist. i think it's very the logical inversion of kris' relationship with noelle (and susie!) in the NR: in the NR, kris has been distant from noelle for a long time, and is pushing susie and noelle together to ensure their happiness with each other. no matter how much they love suselle, they feel undeserving of that closeness.

WR kriselle becoming the knight is the perfect tragedy, because it's the closest kris and noelle can possibly get. no more distance, no more secrets. they will do what they couldn't alone. and i think it would be quite poetic if that's how the knight is defeated longterm: not because the NR fun gang overcomes them with the power of friendship, but because they see a version of themselves that got to be happy, and sacrifice themselves to make sure that kris and susie and noelle all live to see another day. defying the prophecy the only way they can

[ten-ninokuruwa]

The KriselleKnight/Amalgaknight/SpliceKnight Theory Doc (by @kaeyodas)

Preface This is a document meant to gather and document evidence of KriselleKnight/AmalgaKnight, the theory that Kris and Noelle from the We

if anyone is interested in the concept of kriselleknight/amalgaknight, i've created a google doc to document evidence and my own personal thoughts for the theory!

[battiechan]

What if Everyone is Right Theory

I've been seeing a lot of Amalg-Knight vs. Dess-Knight discourse and what what if everyone is right? (Can you tell I hate conflict) What if Dess was the original Knight in the game we were meant to play with the character we made in the beginning but Weird Route Kris and Noelle glitched into the darker than dark where they can alter the code and accidentally deleted her role in the game which is why she's trapped in the code and then became an amalgamation in an attempt to gain freedom, paralleling the determination experiments in Undertale. jk jk... unless... I have actually been working on a full theory for this and the more and more I dig into it the more I feel like I'm onto something. I might be losing my mind but this may be the first time I make a theory video and boy do I feel the rush!

[darkxwolf17]

Hey. Consider.

Consider Kriselle amalgamate (can be Knight or not) x Susie. Fucked up version of Krisuselle, if you will. Consider it for me.

Okay thank you