Cenam Dere

25 - Most Optimistic Bri'ish Person - God knew I was too op, so he cursed me with autism and an intense love for emotionally unstable women

[cenamdere]

About kriselle amalgam knight, doesnt the sword minigame kinda contradict it? It very clearly shows the weird route, and after crossing the lake, the scene where game-noelle and game-kris are used up. Afaik that diesnt really match the theory? How would they be considered used up if they become the knight, an integral to the plot character

Let's look a little closer to what the game tells us about the Sword Route: As the preamble, Ramb introduces this to us with the preface that Kris didn't like Tenna's game, while noting that the game isn't the original one and that the whole thing is linear and bounded, and that what Kris wants is Freedom. He then implies this original game will have Freedom in it. Note that in order to even start the game, you need the Odd Controller, an item explicitly connected to FRIEND through the pink and yellow colouration.

Firstly, Board 1 essentially to me represents Ch1 and Ch2. A simple 'GET STRONGER' message, picking up a sword for HERO_SWORD to kill monsters, only to end up destroying trees that bound your way and obtaining the 'ICE KEY', which to me at least represents reaching the point where Noelle joins the party.

Next is Board 2, which represents to me at least Ch2 to Ch5. Starting off from the beginning from the acknowledgement it follows a similar path to Board 1 at the start up until you go up to Northernlight and enter the Ice Palace. There, you will find yourself unable to kill certain enemies until you find someone called a WHITE CLOAK, who you must follow and have her use ICE MAGIC to begin the FORBIDDEN PATH.

After having done some freezing with the WHITE CLOAK to a blue bird, you must then go through a maze area that according to Noelle's own blog, only she can seemingly get through. You might have heard it before, but the path she takes is essentially the path the Player takes for Ch2, Ch4, and Ch5's WR. You go from Library to Noelle's Home to the Lake. By that point when you've reached the Lake, the using up of WHITE CLOAK occurs here, where we find a black void and ERAM's voice saying "Well done. You found my secret hiding place. But there's nothing here...is there?" and then we find a save point like star which when touched states "YOU FOUND THE SHELTER KEY". After that, ERAM responds "Oh, you found that, too! Perfect, just perfect... Thanks for all your hard work, Kris!" before the words YOU WERE USED UP show up and the game ends there.

Now quite literally, we are saying that Kris and Noelle went into a lake, went to an area associated with where a devil is hidden, and obtain the means to go into the Shelter, with the implication that this is something Kris is supposed to do. I'd like to note this later with ERAM, but they are pretty explicitly connected to the Knight given they are stated to both have work to do.

Finally, Board 3. This starts off with the City Board and HERO_SWORD is with the mini Susie and Ralsei characters here. There are 2 things to note here: The use of the City Board notes back to what Noelle has said about it being a place would've wanted to take her, that being a place outside the bounds. And also the fact that Susie and Ralsei are here implies this is at a point where Susie and Ralsei will at least have some idea of the boundedness of the world, most likely a Ch6 relevation. In this board, the presumption from here on is that this is a timeline where the Knight succeeds, given the killing of Susie and Ralsei at this point, implying the Knight has reached the point where "the three heroes meet at World's Edge." Next, we go into the manhole and go into the Hometown inspired area according to Roots Theory. To note about that theory, there are monsters implied to represent both Asgore and Undyne here. Only then, do we get to see the Black Deer Monster, the one that copies Kris, gets controlled by us, and then is attacked when we try to get too close to Kris.

After that, we destroy the tree barriers with our strength and leave the Hometown area. After that, we get to see mini Tenna talking about the deal they made with Kris, getting killed by HERO_SWORD and then immediately going to the Shelter right after that conversation. Seriously, a character talks about a deal and then we immediately go to the Shelter right after. Kris is shown themself to be hestitant, but we go in anyways.

We then enter the Shelter and get this: "Kris...oh...Kris...Is it fun, Kris? Playing around like this...That's why you're searching for them, aren't you? The SHADOW CRYSTALs...and the SHADOW MANTLE that I'm holding! Do you honestly think it'll get you what you want...?...no, part of you is just...enjoying this, isn't it? [WROnly] The same part of you that enjoyed yesterday. Knowing you could say it wasn't really you. [WROnly] Oh, don't make that sour face. I can see in the dark, you know! The question is... can you?"

If we treat ERAM as similar to the Knight, we can understand the following:

They don't think the Shadow Crystals or Shadow Mantle will get Kris what they want, implying they think these elements won't change fate at all.

They accuse Kris of only doing this for enjoyment's sake alone, and go out of their way to say they enjoy what they did in Ch2 WR because they don't have full control over themselves. I'd imagine they only accuse Kris of this because of how the Knight is now.

The part that interests me is the "I can see in the dark. Can you?" is how it compares to a line that came up in Ch1 during the Cliffs section, specifically: "In this land, only eyes blinded by darkness can see the way..." implying that seeing in the dark = Understanding the fate of the future ahead. The line is essentially saying 'I know exactly what's going to happen due to the bounds of the game. Can you understand it?'

Anyways, after the fight is over and you've attacked ERAM and the FRIENDlings enough, they say this: "There! That's what I wanted to see! Flickering red, like pretty little flames... Your eyes can't hide it, Kris. Without play... The knife grows dull. Haha...well, enough of that! We both have work to do! So if you want this MANTLE, hurry up and take it...If you can reach it!" before then putting the Shadow Mantle in an chest that requires the Player to break the bounds on purpose to get it.

The flickering red has only been shown in eyes of those who are determined and willing to make a Dark Fountain. There's also the use of 'Without play.. The knife grows dull' implying that the Knight is playing because essentially, if they don't try altering little things like that, their strength and brutality will weaken. If they don't distract themselves, their determination will falter. And in a way, because the Shadow Mantle weakens the Knight's attacks, it adds a challenge for the Knight, it gives a risk of defeat, because while they don't mind winning, they also have the desire to test the strength of the Fun Gang as well.

[cenamdere]

About kriselle amalgam knight, doesnt the sword minigame kinda contradict it? It very clearly shows the weird route, and after crossing the lake, the scene where game-noelle and game-kris are used up. Afaik that diesnt really match the theory? How would they be considered used up if they become the knight, an integral to the plot character

Let's look a little closer to what the game tells us about the Sword Route: As the preamble, Ramb introduces this to us with the preface that Kris didn't like Tenna's game, while noting that the game isn't the original one and that the whole thing is linear and bounded, and that what Kris wants is Freedom. He then implies this original game will have Freedom in it. Note that in order to even start the game, you need the Odd Controller, an item explicitly connected to FRIEND through the pink and yellow colouration.

Firstly, Board 1 essentially to me represents Ch1 and Ch2. A simple 'GET STRONGER' message, picking up a sword for HERO_SWORD to kill monsters, only to end up destroying trees that bound your way and obtaining the 'ICE KEY', which to me at least represents reaching the point where Noelle joins the party.

Next is Board 2, which represents to me at least Ch2 to Ch5. Starting off from the beginning from the acknowledgement it follows a similar path to Board 1 at the start up until you go up to Northernlight and enter the Ice Palace. There, you will find yourself unable to kill certain enemies until you find someone called a WHITE CLOAK, who you must follow and have her use ICE MAGIC to begin the FORBIDDEN PATH.

After having done some freezing with the WHITE CLOAK to a blue bird, you must then go through a maze area that according to Noelle's own blog, only she can seemingly get through. You might have heard it before, but the path she takes is essentially the path the Player takes for Ch2, Ch4, and Ch5's WR. You go from Library to Noelle's Home to the Lake. By that point when you've reached the Lake, the using up of WHITE CLOAK occurs here, where we find a black void and ERAM's voice saying "Well done. You found my secret hiding place. But there's nothing here...is there?" and then we find a save point like star which when touched states "YOU FOUND THE SHELTER KEY". After that, ERAM responds "Oh, you found that, too! Perfect, just perfect... Thanks for all your hard work, Kris!" before the words YOU WERE USED UP show up and the game ends there.

Now quite literally, we are saying that Kris and Noelle went into a lake, went to an area associated with where a devil is hidden, and obtain the means to go into the Shelter, with the implication that this is something Kris is supposed to do. I'd like to note this later with ERAM, but they are pretty explicitly connected to the Knight given they are stated to both have work to do.

Finally, Board 3. This starts off with the City Board and HERO_SWORD is with the mini Susie and Ralsei characters here. There are 2 things to note here: The use of the City Board notes back to what Noelle has said about it being a place would've wanted to take her, that being a place outside the bounds. And also the fact that Susie and Ralsei are here implies this is at a point where Susie and Ralsei will at least have some idea of the boundedness of the world, most likely a Ch6 relevation. In this board, the presumption from here on is that this is a timeline where the Knight succeeds, given the killing of Susie and Ralsei at this point, implying the Knight has reached the point where "the three heroes meet at World's Edge." Next, we go into the manhole and go into the Hometown inspired area according to Roots Theory. To note about that theory, there are monsters implied to represent both Asgore and Undyne here. Only then, do we get to see the Black Deer Monster, the one that copies Kris, gets controlled by us, and then is attacked when we try to get too close to Kris.

After that, we destroy the tree barriers with our strength and leave the Hometown area. After that, we get to see mini Tenna talking about the deal they made with Kris, getting killed by HERO_SWORD and then immediately going to the Shelter right after that conversation. Seriously, a character talks about a deal and then we immediately go to the Shelter right after. Kris is shown themself to be hestitant, but we go in anyways.

We then enter the Shelter and get this: "Kris...oh...Kris...Is it fun, Kris? Playing around like this...That's why you're searching for them, aren't you? The SHADOW CRYSTALs...and the SHADOW MANTLE that I'm holding! Do you honestly think it'll get you what you want...?...no, part of you is just...enjoying this, isn't it? [WROnly] The same part of you that enjoyed yesterday. Knowing you could say it wasn't really you. [WROnly] Oh, don't make that sour face. I can see in the dark, you know! The question is... can you?"

If we treat ERAM as similar to the Knight, we can understand the following:

They don't think the Shadow Crystals or Shadow Mantle will get Kris what they want, implying they think these elements won't change fate at all.

They accuse Kris of only doing this for enjoyment's sake alone, and go out of their way to say they enjoy what they did in Ch2 WR because they don't have full control over themselves. I'd imagine they only accuse Kris of this because of how the Knight is now.

The part that interests me is the "I can see in the dark. Can you?" is how it compares to a line that came up in Ch1 during the Cliffs section, specifically: "In this land, only eyes blinded by darkness can see the way..." implying that seeing in the dark = Understanding the fate of the future ahead. The line is essentially saying 'I know exactly what's going to happen due to the bounds of the game. Can you understand it?'

Anyways, after the fight is over and you've attacked ERAM and the FRIENDlings enough, they say this: "There! That's what I wanted to see! Flickering red, like pretty little flames... Your eyes can't hide it, Kris. Without play... The knife grows dull. Haha...well, enough of that! We both have work to do! So if you want this MANTLE, hurry up and take it...If you can reach it!" before then putting the Shadow Mantle in an chest that requires the Player to break the bounds on purpose to get it.

The flickering red has only been shown in eyes of those who are determined and willing to make a Dark Fountain. There's also the use of 'Without play.. The knife grows dull' implying that the Knight is playing because essentially, if they don't try altering little things like that, their strength and brutality will weaken. If they don't distract themselves, their determination will falter. And in a way, because the Shadow Mantle weakens the Knight's attacks, it adds a challenge for the Knight, it gives a risk of defeat, because while they don't mind winning, they also have the desire to test the strength of the Fun Gang as well.

[cenamdere]

I keep seeing people shoot down kriselle amalgam knight because "time travel isn't a thing in dtarune" but I feel like I'm taking crazy pills because SAVING AND LOADING AND RESETTING IS DIAGETIC, RIGHT???

I know right? I mean like time and space as a concept in this game has been directly implied to work very weirdly in this case, especially considering the man implied to be running this whole game is LITERALLY SHATTERED ACROSS 'TIME AND SPACE'. To bring up every single timespace weirdness in question that I can think of:

The clocks shown in this game don't change even when you go in at completely different times. The most egregious and obvious one is the classroom. There are no examples of clocks that actually change over time between Chapters in the story. Given how easy it would be for Toby to change how the clocks look, this implies that Toby did this intentionally.

There are explicit moments in this story where a time loop is implied to be occuring, even as far back as Chapter 1 with Kris' save point dialogue and Jevil's dialogue as well as multiple moments in Chapter 4 from Kris, Susie, and even the guy who stands near the Jockington prophecy panel.

Even considering the spatial aspect alone, not only are there places in Hometown we literally can't see that we know we can't because if you try to map it all, the buildings and trees wouldn't line up. We even have implied boundaries for us, the Player, through the trees, the police tape, and most relevant, the lake.

It's also important to note that Sans, Gaster's number 1 guy for ignoring the laws of space and time is notably in this game and literally TELEPORTS BETWEEN SCENES IN CHAPTER 4 AND 5!!!

Does anyone even remember what his geno dialogue in Undertale was? Why does he even have reports for 'a massive anomaly in the timespace continuum' as though he's been studying this shit for a long time? Does that not imply ANYTHING CONCERING about Deltarune given that he is there and is implied to have shown up recently just like in Undertale? Doesn't this imply Sans is looking for an anomaly in Deltarune?

In regards to what Toby himself has personally said about the game specifically, he notes this about the connections between Undertale and Deltarune:

There's also the whole how many endings are there in Deltarune, because people think Kriselle Knight couldn't work if the Weird Route had its own unique ending:

The Weird Route's whole deal to me seems like the Player speedrunning the game ignoring the physical and psychological harm they're causing Kris and Noelle because they're curious, want to avoid the fate of the prophecy and want to know the destination instead of appreciating the journey and the characters.

Allow me to state how I personally hypothesise Kriselle Knight ending up in this story. As a starter, I will be assuming the following which will be relevant for later: that Noelle will be made into 'the Second Hero' on the Weird Route and that the Final Prophecy is the deaths of the First and Second Hero. Firstly, I believe the implications from the 'other side of the lake' being similar to the barrier from Undertale are true. A fusion via amalgamation will occur due to the heightened Determination at that point and will fuse them into a black monster, akin to the one shown in the Sword Route, which can be implied if we presume Roots Theory is correct about this. (Note: the black monster being a black deer that copies Kris, can be controlled by the Player, and is killed by Kris when we try to get too close to attack.)

Next, we will go to the stated 'Nowhere' place that is shown through the binoculars at the Mancountry in the Chapter 3 Egg room. This is believed to be possible if the similarities to the MOTHER 1 Breadcrumbs Glitch are true, as well as the connections between going Nowhere and suicidality clearly implied by both Kris and Noelle in this game as well as the implications from the Bibliox about it being bad to go Nowhere with someone else.

Nowhere will look like a monochrome copy of the Light World, and due to interactions those 2 will have here, this will prove definitively from Noelle's perspective the following:

Noelle's similarities to the Player/Kris mentioned in Chapter 5 WR (seeing the world through glass, feeling like someone else is controlling her body) will become even more explicit, through her learning how the Red Soul's literal diagetic mechanics work (therefore learning why Kris had been acting different) and learning about Gaster not just being the creator of this game world (His Deltarune), but will also learn it was created from an old world.

From this meeting with Gaster, she will come to also learn of DEVICE_FRIEND, who will suggest a deal: they will give this Kriselle her a means to stop Dess' disappearance, an event that has tortured both Kris and Noelle with trauma for a long time, from ever occuring through giving them a way to travel back to the roots just before the event occured by means of making them an anomaly as well as a weapon (The Black Knife) as a way to fight against the one who could cause Dess' disappearance by trapping the culprit in a place where they can't possibly do anything to Dess.

They will take this shady deal, they will get lost where the forest would grow, the children will follow the pointed tail. Oh, the poor children!

Noelle will believe she is assured that she will succeed at saving Dess, because she is strong and therefore can do anything. However, given we can only proceed... and proceeding has only resulted in a violent outcome... due to the Red Soul's and this world's limits, the outcome cannot be created where the Red Soul and Dess both can exist on the same timeline. After all, when we first got here, Dess had already disappeared. And if we aren't here, the Light World cannot become 'real' and allow Dess to be real as well. Noelle's hopes will die here and she will fall into a deep despair, making rivers with her tears. Kris' guilt for this event will become even stronger and will be desperate to take the responsibility for this away from Noelle.

They will try over and over again to try to change the outcome, but their choices will not matter. The darkness shall outweigh the light, corrupting it, turning it from a heart that knew love to an eye that knows LOVE and can see in the dark. They will see Gaster and the Red Soul as enemies that made this horrible world what it is, a world where choices don't matter.

In their rage, they shall make a promise that they shall not forget. They will destroy the old world, destroying it's illusionary existence through the Roaring whilst protecting this world's Lightners through kidnapping them whilst flying with wings and trapping them in ice like a Gallery and sacrifices their bodies and placing their souls into artificial, crystalised, indestructible 'work-out ready bodies' covered in strings so that nobody will have to suffer abandonment.

They will create the Angel's Heaven, a Holy NEO Dark Fountain. The Knight will become an Angel, a supernatural figure that rules over this new world they've created. The only thing limiting them is the Prophecy that holds back their hand from doing everything immediately.

The Knight will go from being an innocent victim of circumstances they could not control to becoming a villain in a world that revolves until they achieve the outcome they desire. In the end, there will only be 2 outcomes. Freedom or Death at the hands of Susie, the one who wields the white pen of hope. After all, when all hope is lost for the tale, the final tragedy unveils. To save the worlds, there is only one way. The cage and the girl must be banished away. Only then, will the words be saved. The Angel, banished, will finally meet with its desire. The Knight's banishment means they won't have to suffer anymore.

[cenamdere]

I keep seeing people shoot down kriselle amalgam knight because "time travel isn't a thing in dtarune" but I feel like I'm taking crazy pills because SAVING AND LOADING AND RESETTING IS DIAGETIC, RIGHT???

I know right? I mean like time and space as a concept in this game has been directly implied to work very weirdly in this case, especially considering the man implied to be running this whole game is LITERALLY SHATTERED ACROSS 'TIME AND SPACE'. To bring up every single timespace weirdness in question that I can think of:

The clocks shown in this game don't change even when you go in at completely different times. The most egregious and obvious one is the classroom. There are no examples of clocks that actually change over time between Chapters in the story. Given how easy it would be for Toby to change how the clocks look, this implies that Toby did this intentionally.

There are explicit moments in this story where a time loop is implied to be occuring, even as far back as Chapter 1 with Kris' save point dialogue and Jevil's dialogue as well as multiple moments in Chapter 4 from Kris, Susie, and even the guy who stands near the Jockington prophecy panel.

Even considering the spatial aspect alone, not only are there places in Hometown we literally can't see that we know we can't because if you try to map it all, the buildings and trees wouldn't line up. We even have implied boundaries for us, the Player, through the trees, the police tape, and most relevant, the lake.

It's also important to note that Sans, Gaster's number 1 guy for ignoring the laws of space and time is notably in this game and literally TELEPORTS BETWEEN SCENES IN CHAPTER 4 AND 5!!!

Does anyone even remember what his geno dialogue in Undertale was? Why does he even have reports for 'a massive anomaly in the timespace continuum' as though he's been studying this shit for a long time? Does that not imply ANYTHING CONCERING about Deltarune given that he is there and is implied to have shown up recently just like in Undertale? Doesn't this imply Sans is looking for an anomaly in Deltarune?

In regards to what Toby himself has personally said about the game specifically, he notes this about the connections between Undertale and Deltarune:

There's also the whole how many endings are there in Deltarune, because people think Kriselle Knight couldn't work if the Weird Route had its own unique ending:

The Weird Route's whole deal to me seems like the Player speedrunning the game ignoring the physical and psychological harm they're causing Kris and Noelle because they're curious, want to avoid the fate of the prophecy and want to know the destination instead of appreciating the journey and the characters.

Allow me to state how I personally hypothesise Kriselle Knight ending up in this story. As a starter, I will be assuming the following which will be relevant for later: that Noelle will be made into 'the Second Hero' on the Weird Route and that the Final Prophecy is the deaths of the First and Second Hero. Firstly, I believe the implications from the 'other side of the lake' being similar to the barrier from Undertale are true. A fusion via amalgamation will occur due to the heightened Determination at that point and will fuse them into a black monster, akin to the one shown in the Sword Route, which can be implied if we presume Roots Theory is correct about this. (Note: the black monster being a black deer that copies Kris, can be controlled by the Player, and is killed by Kris when we try to get too close to attack.)

Next, we will go to the stated 'Nowhere' place that is shown through the binoculars at the Mancountry in the Chapter 3 Egg room. This is believed to be possible if the similarities to the MOTHER 1 Breadcrumbs Glitch are true, as well as the connections between going Nowhere and suicidality clearly implied by both Kris and Noelle in this game as well as the implications from the Bibliox about it being bad to go Nowhere with someone else.

Nowhere will look like a monochrome copy of the Light World, and due to interactions those 2 will have here, this will prove definitively from Noelle's perspective the following:

Noelle's similarities to the Player/Kris mentioned in Chapter 5 WR (seeing the world through glass, feeling like someone else is controlling her body) will become even more explicit, through her learning how the Red Soul's literal diagetic mechanics work (therefore learning why Kris had been acting different) and learning about Gaster not just being the creator of this game world (His Deltarune), but will also learn it was created from an old world.

From this meeting with Gaster, she will come to also learn of DEVICE_FRIEND, who will suggest a deal: they will give this Kriselle her a means to stop Dess' disappearance, an event that has tortured both Kris and Noelle with trauma for a long time, from ever occuring through giving them a way to travel back to the roots just before the event occured by means of making them an anomaly as well as a weapon (The Black Knife) as a way to fight against the one who could cause Dess' disappearance by trapping the culprit in a place where they can't possibly do anything to Dess.

They will take this shady deal, they will get lost where the forest would grow, the children will follow the pointed tail. Oh, the poor children!

Noelle will believe she is assured that she will succeed at saving Dess, because she is strong and therefore can do anything. However, given we can only proceed... and proceeding has only resulted in a violent outcome... due to the Red Soul's and this world's limits, the outcome cannot be created where the Red Soul and Dess both can exist on the same timeline. After all, when we first got here, Dess had already disappeared. And if we aren't here, the Light World cannot become 'real' and allow Dess to be real as well. Noelle's hopes will die here and she will fall into a deep despair, making rivers with her tears. Kris' guilt for this event will become even stronger and will be desperate to take the responsibility for this away from Noelle.

They will try over and over again to try to change the outcome, but their choices will not matter. The darkness shall outweigh the light, corrupting it, turning it from a heart that knew love to an eye that knows LOVE and can see in the dark. They will see Gaster and the Red Soul as enemies that made this horrible world what it is, a world where choices don't matter.

In their rage, they shall make a promise that they shall not forget. They will destroy the old world, destroying it's illusionary existence through the Roaring whilst protecting this world's Lightners through kidnapping them whilst flying with wings and trapping them in ice like a Gallery and sacrifices their bodies and placing their souls into artificial, crystalised, indestructible 'work-out ready bodies' covered in strings so that nobody will have to suffer abandonment.

They will create the Angel's Heaven, a Holy NEO Dark Fountain. The Knight will become an Angel, a supernatural figure that rules over this new world they've created. The only thing limiting them is the Prophecy that holds back their hand from doing everything immediately.

The Knight will go from being an innocent victim of circumstances they could not control to becoming a villain in a world that revolves until they achieve the outcome they desire. In the end, there will only be 2 outcomes. Freedom or Death at the hands of Susie, the one who wields the white pen of hope. After all, when all hope is lost for the tale, the final tragedy unveils. To save the worlds, there is only one way. The cage and the girl must be banished away. Only then, will the words be saved. The Angel, banished, will finally meet with its desire. The Knight's banishment means they won't have to suffer anymore.

[the-blooming-web]

Deltarune chapter 5 spoiler (weird route included)

So kriselle/amalgam knight is a very fun and intriguing theory. Especially after chapter 5 ended up kinda making both of my knight candidates impossible (Rudy well… falling down. And it’s kinda hard to imagine that dess turns into the knight in the same dark world she was lost in)

But the theory explains all the little things like why the knight poses the way it does, makes the noises it does, why the darkworlds they create have the same colors as the kris dark worlds (while Susie’s has the weird color shift.) the general amalgam look of the knight.

I have seen a lot of people say that their gerson dustner would be wildly different and not a teacher… but it’s not like they wouldn’t have seen em as a teacher, just not theirs. That and he did hold the sermons in the church which would also form their view of him for a dustner.

The one thing I am wondering about is that god damn baseball bat… it makes it impossible for me to 100% subscribe to the theory but also dess is definitely not the knight and this piece of evidence is really awkward for any non dess knight candidates.

- signed

🍃🐱 Vivia

[runicmagitek]

This is where I've been at mentally since watching chapter 5's weird route stuff.

[damien-candle]

DELTARUNE SPOILERS!!!!

(Weird route)

I can't stop seeing this over and over in my head

[the-archivist-14]

DELTARUNE CHAPTER 5 + weird route SPOILERS BELOWWW

Ok- so I need to talk about the Kris/Noelle fusion is knight theory bc i haven’t seen many people talk about it and i have thoughtsssss-

ok so if you don’t know, the theory goes that after the lake scene, Kris and Noelle will fuse to form the Roaring Knight after diving into the depths at the bottom of the lake!

Some evidence includes- The fact that the during the Roaring Knight fight Kris' act option will let them "Hold their breath" where Kris will have options that allude to stuff like tightness in the chest and light headed-ness, the fact that the roaring knight acts similar to an amalgamate with the changing of shape and how it drips at times (another allusion to drowning/lake imagery if you think about it), being a creature of darkness, the fact a lot of the sprites look like Kris' poses and Noelle's deer motif, the fact the lightners' get frozen, the glitchness of the Knight and how it seems to break reality, the sound effect the knight makes being Noelle's slowed down screams and the Knight's scream being similar to Snowgrave, the black knife being Kris' special knife, and much more i'm sure.

(Video that goes over it more- https://youtu.be/JT97Fy-vszQ?si=0C0HsKgPuzpz3qpo )

Now my thoughts-

So overall I genuinely like this theory, probably a little more than DessKnight theory (As much as I don't mind the idea Dess is the confused voice in the code *AND* the Knight (Gaster was split across reality, it's only fair Dess could be as well) I do think it fits a little cleaner, especially if Dess disappeared in the shelter rather than the lake). However I think it's especially more interesting if you take into account the Deltarune time loop theory (The idea that the events of Deltarune being some sort of time loop) as the Knight has been there since before Dess has gone missing (So i've heard, pls yell at me if I am wrong) and if the Soul somehow or maybe Susie resets the timeline (so that we only have one ending like Toby said) then maybe it can make *a lot* of sense. (Orrrrr the fact that this timeline will more than likely lead into Undertale as foretold by the fact that on the only *required* encounter in chapter 5, Sans more than likely gets the "Don't forget" image with Ralsei, Kris, and Susie. Which means there's a potential the Roaring will happen and Sans and Papyrus will end up in Undertale). However the things that catch me on is the fact the game kind of encourages you (my interpretation) to explore the weird route so it makes me think that more than likely *that* will also help in stopping the roaring (the sword route in chapter 3 foreshadowing this, along with getting the "freedom" they keep talking about through this.) But maybe they mean the "true freedom" is actually through death?

What I'm trying to say is- probably gonna write some fanfic about it, super sold on the concept, but not exactly sure if I 100% believe it seeing as the game so strongly hints at exploring the weird route. But I do *want* to believe it so that's why I'm talking about it bc genuinely the evidence is *all* there and if it's right- holy shit what a twist.

[the-second-sanctuary]

Kriselle knight theory to the moon

[runicmagitek]

This is where I've been at mentally since watching chapter 5's weird route stuff.

[darkxwolf17]

Post-weird route kriselle knight theory has me by the chokehold it's so good. It's so good. As soon as i heard it I was like holy fuck. And it's picking up traction now I'm so happy because even if it doesn't end up being true there will be a bunch of fan content / aus for it and that makes me very happy

[cat-mermaid]

come follow me into the dark

with your heart as the ark

which shall shine you the way

because I'm with you in the dark

With your heart as my mark

which shall guide you the way

through the waves

[belovedpetz]

oh ive seen some ppl theorise that in wr kris and noelle fuse amalgamate style to become the knight. based on the track that plays sounding similar to endogyny and the knight mirroring kris’ poses while having noelles horns. and opening up like a cage. and being watery amd formless and both kris and noelle being able to equip the black shard but not having any dialogue for it etc etc etc. like i cant lie i used to be a dessknight truther but after ch5 this shit is compelling as hell

[candycanesdotjpeg]

I saw a theory saying that the roaring knight is Kris and Noelle fused and sent back from a weird route timeline.holy shit I’m a truther of this theory

[damien-candle]

DELTARUNE SPOILERS!!!!

(Weird route)

I can't stop seeing this over and over in my head

[grayocene]

ARE ALL OTHER KNIGHT CANDIDATES DEAD IN THE WATER??? A POST CHAPTER-5 DELTARUNE THEORY

FIRST SAYING: I am making this connection off of severe post-chapter deltarot. I have evidence and thoughts, sure, but by no means am I a certified theorist. I may be off the mark by a long shot. Shrug.

What if Deltarune IS a timeloop, and Noelle and the Roaring Knight are the same being? Not the same person. Not the same personality. Just the same being.

#MyDiagram. Putting this here for visual intrigue before I explain my thoughts.

During the cutscene where Asgore talks about what happened 'that horrible day', the song That Day plays. There is SFX of the Thorn Ring equip and the Knight's breath in there, and apparently Black Knife's melody.

We assume that the tragedy has to do with Dess's disappearance. If we take the Knight's slight motifs in the song as soft-confirmation that they were the one to make the fountain, tat begs the question, though... If Dess disappeared in the Dark Fountain that day, how could she be the Knight? Or Rudy, or Carol, or Papyrus for that matter. There's already a timeloop theory running around here.

Now that Chapter 5 drops, I would like to add this one ARG answer to the timeloop theory evidence bucket.

Weird! Not learning anything from last time? Like... a timeloop? As we know, in the chapter 5 weird route, Noelle goes off the deep end and forces Kris to swim across the lake, where it ends off at:

Chapter 7 Side B, huh? That implies a Side A. But ain't there a timeloop? And only one ending? How can more than one ending and a timeloop exist at the same time?

Here's where my theory comes in. Look at my diagram again.

I think that we are already in a timeloop, and the Knight somehow being there at the tragedy, opening up a Dark Fountain, means that there has been at least one loop. I think the chapter 5 weird route ending could be the beginning of this timeloop. Noelle gets across the lake both physically and metaphorically, becomes stronger than a NPC, and warps into the Knight.

I am not saying that if we open the Knight's helmet, the Noelle we recognize is going to be in there. I think that so many things would have happened since then that Noelle and the Knight would have almost nothing in common. Much like how Asriel and Flowey have almost nothing in common.

The Knight somehow finds themselves at the beginning of the timeline. How did they get there? Dunno. Some timeloop Flowey-like bullshit. We already know that weird meta timelines are a theme that's been touched upon in Undertale.

We know that Kris and the Knight have an agreement. If the Knight can get its way to the beginning of the timeline, it has time to make the agreement with Kris. Notably, this means that Carol is not the mastermind of the Roaring Groupchat like so many would think. Either this means that Kris would be working with Carol and the Knight but not both of them at once, or Carol is working with the Knight without knowing it used to be Noelle, and it has her played.

Okay, so 7B might be starting the loop. But if normal players are to experience the intended experience of time looping, however, it must happen during the main, normal, chapters. Maybe it happens if you don't get all the shadowcrystals or eggs. Or maybe the only way to avoid the loop is to do the TwistedSword route. Dunno!

Oh yeah, and maybe that's what the Knight's sword is made out of. Dreams and desires. The dream to become stronger.

That's the gist of my reasoning. It might be something. Or nothing. I don't know. I figured I'd post it here so that other people could build upon this if they wanted to. Doesn't matter to me.

[marsbotz]