#ask debates

[wibble-wobbegong]

"he's hurt, he's hurting, but he's still alive'' line really cannot apply to the mindflayer though. why is ''mindflayer'' hurting exactly? wasnt mindflayer in russia, lol? the only one who can be hurting at that time is vecna basically bc nancy burnt him and shit, and el fought against him. mindflayer wasnt even at the play and he cannot be hurt atp.

we dont know what kind of a connection vecna and will has. we only know what we have been shown and stated so far and some interviews with the duffers and jamie.

henry is part of the hivemind just like will, hence the ability to feel his pain.

a piece of the mind flayer was in russia, but there’s 0 chance that was the entire mind flayer. it was probably the same piece that was left in the S3 mf’s dead body, which the russians may have extracted.

also bro have you ever heard of a theory? it’s a theory.

[wibble-wobbegong]

''henry is not the source of will’s trauma, simply the person who set it in motion.''

Uhmm what? How is he not the start of Will's trauma when he's the one who captured him and took him to the Upside Down?? the MF doesnt also act on his own.

If you watch the way Will acts while he's possessed, it is similar to Henry's mannerisms when he uses his powers as a child. Both show a cold mannerism and look on their faces.

If it was just the MF all along it would have been the one to target Will in the first place, but it was clearly Henry first and then he is the one who started Will's trauma. How can you say that he is not the source of Will's trauma, I dont get it? If Will wasnt taken to the Upside Down and forced to stay there and got slugs/tubes put inside him, his trauma and nightmares would not have started.

And his episodes and visions happen right after he's saved from the Upside Down. There wasnt any Mind Flayer at that point. So, Will's all trauma, his capture, and visions start because of Henry.

It really isnt the Mind Flayer Will feels. I am not sure why do you think the Duffers would use the ''unreliable narrator'' there?

For it to be an unreliable narrating, then all of the things we've seen so far with the other parallels would have been unreliable narrating as well. Because Will's paralleling Vecna's other victims aint making any sense if it's unreliable narrator at play.

read this

the mf can and has acted on its own many times. parallels can mean several things, and just because it seems obvious doesn’t mean it’s correct. we have more proof the will is connected to the mf than henry. henry captured will and in turn made the mf aware of who he is, so henry was the one who put will in the spot for the mf to become fixated on him.

you can disagree and create a counter argument without being a pretentious piece of shit. only send asks if you aren’t gonna act like i’m stupid for considering options other than what seems obvious. or just don’t send them at all! that works too!

[wibble-wobbegong]

Both the Duffers and Jamie himself confirmed that it was Vecna and ''Vecna and Will share a history'' I am not sure what kind of a history they share if Will just targeted by a mindless demogorgon and a mindless MF.

Also they outright show us that it was Henry through parallels, too. Will's possession scene in S2 is basically a parallel to how Chrissy gets Vecna'd. When Will is literally put in a trance in S2 and is being possessed, he closes his eyes and stands still like frozen. That's what happens to Vecna's victims in S4. The writers obviously modelled the scenes after each other and it was intentional.

Joyce and Eddie mimick each other too by both of them saying ''Will, honesy wake up!!'' and ''Chrissy, wake up!!'' and both Joyce and Eddie shaking Will and Chrissy by their arms and trying to end their trance.

I am sorry but I think it is kind of obvious that it was Henry? Not just the MF acting on his own. The demogorgon/s also dont act on their own either.

The way Henry's targets are experiencing Vecna's curse is similar to how Will was experiencing it in both S1 and S2. Because Will's both situations parallel Viktor Creel, Chrissy and Max's experiences.

It is really not the Mind Flayer. I am not sure why ppl keep denying this lol

yeah i think we might have a fundamentally different interpretation of the show dude. i have a theory about will’s history with henry here

those are 100% parallels, that’s a fact i cannot argue, but I think the intention of making those parallels was to show that henry and the mf have been working together since the beginning. the way will gets possessed is completely different from what henry does to his victims and will is shown to be in tune with the mf’s hivemind, as he becomes a part of its army, rather than experience what henry’s victims go through.

also, the creatures from the UD aren’t mindless. the way a hivemind works is that there’s a collective consciousness that unites all of the creatures, but that doesn’t mean they can’t do things on their own. the bats and vines willingly attacked, as if it were a hivemind response then henry would’ve been aware of the hawkins gang having been in the UD much sooner.

you can disagree with my interpretation of the supernatural stuff without being a bitch about it btw. if you weren’t aware. we can have conversations where you don’t sound like a pissy little asshole i promise it isn’t hard