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Dave Filoni, Supervising Director of Star Wars: The Clone Wars on Season Five, Ahsoka, Barriss Offee, and why he loves the passion of fans. Interview by Jonathan Wilkins.
“When I first started on The Clone Wars, I didn’t know how long I’d be working for Lucasfilm—I just wanted to make the best show possible. I thought I’d be here maybe two years.”—Dave Filoni (approaching his 8th year as supervising director on Star Wars: The Clone Wars).
It has always been a joy to talk with Dave Filoni. As any fan who has enjoyed his numerous convention appearances will tell you, he lives, breathes, and speaks Star Wars. Interviewing him for Insider is always one of the highlights of the job—usually a call from the London office to his Lucasfilm office at Big Rock Ranch in Marin County, California.
Here’s a secret. This interview was done on Tuesday, January 16, some two months before we hit newsstands—and way before the finale of Season Five of The Clone Wars has been publically seen. The Clone Wars’ ever-helpful PR representative, Tracy Cannobbio, lets Dave know the relevant dates; then, between the three of us, we decided that we could talk about the Alderaan-shattering climax to Season Five. If you didn’t pay heed to the spoiler warning at the start of this interview, then know that we’ll be giving a lot away. You have been warned!
THE DIVERSITY OF STAR WARS
We start by discussing the many challenges the show presents Filoni and his team. In the past, there have been technical barriers to break through: water, fire, and cloth simulation, for example. Happily the team has vanquished them, with insurmountable problems in the early seasons now solved. Filoni admits the challenges are Less technical now, and more story-driven.
“We typically have about 22 episodes per season, and we have to try to decide what’s going to make it out there or not. I know that some fans sometimes think they’d he happy with an entire season about Darth Maul, but we have such a wide-ranging fan base. We have stories for every type of fan.
“There’s always the choice as to which characters are going to make it onto the screen. Sometimes we say, ‘Wow, we didn’t see this character all season long!’ You can get so caught up telling these other stories that you don’t even realise it. That’s probably one of the biggest challenges: you have to juggle the characters and make sure you follow through with the characters arcs.”
Nothing is off-limits for the show’s writers. “We just act Like that. I don’t know how relatively true it is. I don’t tell the writers, ‘Let’s not do that: It’s more, ‘Let’s get this story right. Let’s worry about that first’ We don’t live by the restrictions we had five years ago.
“We always have to keep an eye on the budget. At certain points, it will push back and that’s where we have to make a wide range of decisions—from maybe Dooku is not wearing his cloak in this scene to how can we re-purpose these sets? It’s really the same issue that you would have on any movie, the same situations, the same problems. But I’ve never chosen to let the budget dictate the stories we’re telling. The whole team wants this show to look good no matter what, and everybody just goes above and beyond while trying to reach that goal. I’m a considerably better director today for all of George’s teaching than I was when I got here.”
SITH LORDS AND YOUNGLINGS
Season Five’s diverse stories have featured vengeful Sith Lords, droids on a mission, and themes of rebellion and sacrifice. Perhaps the most popular was the enchanting “younglings” episodes which featured some of the series’ best aesthetics to date. Filoni, too, is a fan of that four-part arc. “I think that whole thing came out really welt Maybe it’s just a Little easier to relate it to the Original Trilogy, because you’ve got a band of young people who are coming together to overcome insurmountable odds—that’s a pretty good theme in Star Wars! It brought some of the magic back, like showing how the Jedi make a lightsaber. That sort of thing we’d seen in the Clone Wars micro-series, but not really per se how George Lucas has envisioned it. He wanted to start the kids off much younger; it was more about Yoda’s Lesson, which I think really works to our advantage and to the story’s advantage.”
Was there any trepidation about centering an arc on the younglings when the show had grown in its maturity? “ALL the writers would tell you that in these meetings when George said, ‘I want to do a series of stories about young Jedi: it could go either way. It could be really good, or a groaner. The first thing discussed was how old these kids are going to be. I started drawing them immediately to get a visual idea of how it might look.
“When we were trying to work out which species to do, I did a little Net Dorian kid [the same species as PM Roos, Filoni’s favorite character] who George immediately nixed. He said, ‘No way! Too ugly!’
“Then it just kind of gained momentum in our imaginations, having the little Wookiee, Gunji, and deciding what they would look like. I did some research to figure out what the crystal caves would look like, too, to give it a sense of history. I put nice tittle clues in there for people playing The Old Republic to see some connectivity between the game and the history we’ve created. You can see their fleet symbol on the Crucible ship. Of course, there was also Huyang, voiced by David Tennant, who brought a great level of magic to his role and the story.”
A NEW VOICE FOR THE REPUBLIC?
The show lost one of its finest actors last year when Ian Abercrombie, who played Patpatine, passed away. His replacement, Tim Curry, brings alt-new facets to the character. “It was a very long search to find someone to replace Ian,” Filoni reveals. “There are people who think they can do the voice, but it’s different when you’re reciting lines from the film; it’s really about the magic of the acting and bringing the characters to life by saying things they’ve never said.
“What Tim really brings is a great level of experience, but also a kind of gravelly edge. He brings a nice level of sinister evil, something that he did all the way back in Legend [1985] Ian’s Darth Sidious voice was deep, but wasn’t quite as gravelly as what Tim is doing,” Filoni continues. “It’s an interesting nuance and quite a shift in some ways.
I wish that Ian Abercrombie could have finished all of Season Five, but Tim is in one episode at the end of the season, along with a brief line that we inserted overlapping with Ian in ‘Revival,’ one of the Darth Maul episodes. I think it’s the final line of the episode. Most people don’t even notice the difference. It’s a great hand-off in a way, to have someone like Tim Curry come in and portray this character now, and he does a really brilliant job.”
Unless things get light and fluffy toward the end (Filoni assures me they won’t), Season Five is the darkest season yet. A move from Friday nights to Saturday mornings might make you think that The Clone Wars would dial down the darker aspects of the show. Not so, says Filoni. “The Season Five episodes were already done before the time change. I would be more sensitive to it now, and say, ‘Let’s pull back on that a little bit.’ I trust a network like Cartoon Network when they say when they want to show it. They are very experienced at doing that and I have more experience doing Star Wars. The ratings have really shown it was the right choice.
“But I think people are aware of how intense the show can get—and things are not going to get fluffier with Darth Maul around, that’s for sure! Saturday mornings have never been this exciting!”
JEDI NO MORE?
Ahsoka’s journey took an unexpected twist in the finale. While Filoni is clear that it’s not the culmination of where the character is going, and there is more to come, he’s sure it’s going to get fans talking. As he lays out what’s to come, more than one plot-point elicits an audible gasp from the writer of this article.
“This is a big year for Ahsoka and I’m very happy about how it went,” says Filoni. “We knew we wanted to do a big arc with her to end this season. George is really onboard with her character, and I think he’s really happy with how she’s developed. We wanted to challenge her, so the opening sequence in the first part of the arc shows her flying toward Cato Neimoidia and the action is all about showing her in her prime, and how she is now capable. Anakin shouldn’t have to worry about her, because she’s the one that saves him. She has a bit of an edge to her, not unlike Anakin.
“As we move on, we challenge several things—one of which is something I’ve been feeding into the story for a long time, which is the people’s perception of the Jedi and the Jedi Order. We find out in this arc that there are people protesting the war from within the Republic. There are people that blame the Jedi for the war and want them to stop.
“Ahsoka’s journey, which involves a terrorist attack on the Jedi Temple, and Ahsoka being implicated for it, results in a big test of faith. It’s a big eye-opener for her. She asks, ‘Why isn’t the Jedi Council rushing to my aid? Why aren’t they defending me without question?’ The real thing that you see is that the Jodi Council is pretty compromised because they have to play a political game. They know that if they defend Ahsoka, then it’ll look like they’re playing inside politics, it will fuel public dissension against the Jedi if they do not have her tried outside the Order. It’s a test of her faith in the Jedi and her friends. That’s what’s at the heart of it.”
As Filoni goes deeper into the story, he warns that my head will explode if he and the team have done their jobs right. Undeterred by the thought of working as a headless writer from then on, I compel him to continue. He tells the story of how Barriss Offee, the kindly and kind-of cute Jedi Padawan who befriended Ahsoka (we met her in the Geonosis arc back in Season Two), is a traitor! As Filoni admits, “I keep trying to sympathize with the readers who are going to pick up this issue of Insider, because they’re going to want to know: ‘Dave, why did you do what you did in this arc?’
“The reason that Barriss is the head conspirator with these people that have been protesting the Jedi Order is because she believes the Order is corrupt, and are following a corrupt senate. She thinks they have lost their way and that the only thing the Council reacts to or believes in anymore is violence. And she’s right, everything she says is true, but her reaction to the situation is wrong and it’s devastating to Ahsoka. That is the main motivator at the end of this season for why Ahsoka does not come back to the Jedi Order. It’s a combination of her faith being shaken and the way the Jedi Council operates, because she can’t deny what Barriss says is true.
“This has huge repercussions. We are foreshadowing everything in the final arc of this season. It foreshadows the Empire, because we see Tarkin’s military institution really rising up in a way that hasn’t been seen before. We see the massive Republic courtroom and it completely reflects the Death Star in every possible way. There’s the reeling that the Jedi are uncomfortable in it. You really see the teeth of the machine that’s going to destroy them.”
CHALLENGING THE FANS
As with any drama, each plot goes through many changes before transmission. “There was a moment when we were talking with George about the finale, about how the Council tries to bring Ahsoka back to the Order,” Filoni explains. “They describe the whole ordeal at the end of this season as her great trial and that she’s a better Jedi than she would’ve been otherwise for this tragedy. The original intention was just to bring her back, but then the writers and I thought about how she’d react to this—and decided that she should turn them down. It works on many levels, not least of which is that Ahsoka is a teenager and how often do teenagers react to authority when authority is wrong or authority wrongs them? I’m hoping it’s unexpected, and there are a couple of things there for me to get letters about. If we’re not challenging fans with characters and their relationships, then we end up being predictable.”
Ahsoka’s fate may hang in the balance at the close of this season, but Filoni admits that, for the first time, her ultimate fate has been decided. “George and I sat down and ironed out the end of it. We actually know what happens to Ahsoka and the other characters. There are several episodes planned with her and what happens to her from this point.”
Of course, key to Ahsoka’s popularity is the performance of Ashley Eckstein, for whom Filoni is full of praise, enthusing about a trailer that Lucasfilm is putting together to promote the arc. “She’s spectacular—the best she’s ever been! It’s a wonderful piece of acting by Ashley. But, at the same time, it’s so her! She came to us not knowing much about Star Wars. I had this actor who was going to play a very important role in this series and didn’t know how important the role was going to be. Her real life involvement in the show has really mirrored the character’s evolution.
“When we recorded the final scene between Ahsoka and Anakin this season, I sent all the other actors away. I said, ‘Everybody go, except for you two.’ We recorded the scene with them, and then George and I watched it. George wanted to make some changes—nuances to the dialogue—and I had to bring them back in, and then we changed it again, which ensured nobody knew what the actual ending was going to be! We just continued to work on that final moment. I think for Ashley and Matt it was especially moving. I do terrible things to her—I told her that I wasn’t going to see her for a while because she was out of the storyline for a bit and she got quite sad. Whether it’s true or not doesn’t matter—I’m the director and I need to motivate her!
“Ashley and Matt give powerful performances these episodes and I think they’ve really grown to love those characters. It worked really well.
“Our composer, Kevin Kiner, watched all four episodes with me and we pinpointed where we really wanted to hit with the music—we don’t do that for every episode,” Filoni continues. “Joel Aron’s lighting was amazing—one of the skies you see in the final scene between Ahsoka and Anakin outside the Jedi Temple was actually inspired by one of the trips I take to L.A. to do the voice recordings. We were driving back from the airport. I looked at the sky and it had just rained. I thought, This sky is perfect! It’s one of those times that all the new technology we have at our fingertips to take pictures really came in handy. I took a bunch of pictures of the sky and gave them to Joel. Everything kind of fell into place—I think they’re some of the best-rendered episodes we’ve ever done.”
CLEANING HOUSE
The season also saw numerous characters killed off. Filoni jokes that, “We’re cleaning house!” Star Wars fans are always vocal about favorite characters being written out—just look at the reaction to Baba Fett being killed off in Return of the Jedi. Is Filoni ready to face the more vocal fans?
“It just shows that they care,” he responds. “I don’t mind it at all. I think it’s a good thing. If we weren’t getting any reaction, it would stink. There’s one character in particular that goes down and I thought, I know someone who’s a big fan of that character. Maybe we should have the whole crew sign a sympathy letter and send it over in the mail.”
The season also saw the return of the Mandalorians—characters who have not been without controversy in the past. Filoni reflects on their inclusion and the way that they have differed from the depictions in the novels.
“I think at the end of the day, what’s been developed on the show with George feels like it fits more with the bigger mythology that he was making: that they are a capable warrior race and that their culture changes and develops over the years and is not always this one-dimensional thing. I think this view of it gives them a more interesting history. That’s one of our strengths as a franchise—just like with our episode arcs, you can be a fan of any number of episodes and you can be a fan of any era of Star Wars or not. Before, you’d hear fans saying, ‘I love the originals!’ or ‘I don’t like the prequels!’ but now there’s a very vocal group that love the prequels and are tired of hearing older fans say how much they like the originals! Now there is a middle group, raised on this cartoon and that’s their Star Wars! Then behind them is going to be fans who like the new upcoming trilogy!
“Imagine fast-forwarding 15 years from now to that year’s Star Wars Celebration, and imagine what the demographic is going to be like. It’s going to be amazing.”
A CENTURY OF CLONES
For a man who thought he’d be working on the show for two years, Filoni hit a major milestone in January with 100 episodes of the show. “To give George credit, he always talked in terms of 100 episodes or more,” Filoni reflects. “I thought, Wow, that’s a lot, right back when we were still figuring out how to make starfighters fly properly. We sailed past that. Then I blinked and we passed 100 episodes. But we need 100 more just to finish what we’re trying to do!”
The show has introduced a staggering number of characters who have struck a chord with fans. Some feel like they’ve been a part of Star Wars mythology since the start. Aside from Ahsoka Tano, the roll-call of fan favorites is extraordinary, with Cad Bane, Embo, Captain Rex and Hondo amongst many standing alongside the movie greats. Filoni’s contribution to the saga is met with a modest response: “When I step back and look at it, I almost feel like I didn’t have anything to do with it because it’s Star Wars. I have such respect for Star Wars. When I see a fan wearing a T-shirt with Rex on it, a Clone Wars backpack, or they’re dressed up like Ahsoka, it just blows my mind. I always want to just take time out to talk to them because it’s something we had direct involvement in. I know all the people behind it, from the people who paint the characters to the ones who model the helmets, to the ones who did the design.
“I don’t feel the ownership over it because I still feel so privileged to be a part of it. It’s still a real responsibility and I don’t take for granted that I can just put things into play in the Star Wars universe. I try to do things that I know the fans, George, and Star Wars needs and can use, not something that I want to put in there just because I can. It’s incredible—just to be a part of it.
“I have a wall at work that’s completely dedicated to fans in costumes from The Clone Wars specifically, just so my crew can walk past it and see how much care and attention to detail the fans put in when paying tribute to our work. It’s incredibly flattering. From the first time hearing George talking about Ahsoka as one of his own—because he did create her—her genesis was really through sketching out the character. Henry Gilroy and I wanted to have a Padawan character, so seeing her as an action figure and seeing the pride that George has in the character is just tremendous.”
LEGACY
The cast and crew of the original trilogy are still much in demand for interviews and convention appearances 35 years on from the original film. It’s interesting to consider what The Clone Wars legacy will be. Filoni is optimistic. “I keep telling the crew that we don’t know what effect we’ve had yet, because fans don’t lose momentum with Star Wars as they get older; they seem to gain it! I can see a time in 10 years when Clone Wars era fans are older and have money to spend on collectibles. They’ll want their incredibly detailed Ahsoka statues and Captain Rex accurate blasters and all that stuff.
“I love it when people take them over into the live-action world —I think that’s just great. The day I went to Walt Disney World far Star Wars Weekends and [one of the girls dressed as) Ahsoka Tano walked up and started talking to me, I was like ‘Okay, wow—that’s weird but awesome!’
“It’s been an amazing experience and still is. I couldn’t ask for a better situation or a better group of people to work with, especially with Kathleen Kennedy now taking charge. It’s just another level of development and I get to see things in a different way now. I’ve had some exciting days here, even just this week—if you could only know, but you can’t!”
But surely sometimes, it can be tough to get criticized? Filoni is pragmatic. “I think when you’re a creator, working on something like Star Wars or anything that has a fan base, you have to accept the discussion, the arguments, even some of the hatred, comes from a place of passion and sometimes wanting to be a part of it. Most fans just want to be heard and I hope through some of the things they’ve seen on the show or experienced or when they get to talk to me or Joel or any of the cast, that they feel like they’re always heard and that we really appreciate the time they take and the interest they have and what they have to say.”
And so the interview draws to a close. Aside from the usual pleasantries and joking that Filoni will be the only attendee at Celebration Europe II [at the time of the interview he was the only guest to be announced] with a convention full of angry Barriss Offee fans, it’s time for him to return—to what could well be the best job in the world.
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