Response to Death Battle's Bowser vs. Dr. Eggman: Part 3/3 - Analysing the Match-up
Welcome to part 3/3 of my response to Death Battle. This part will focus on my providing my own analysis of the match-up, and my conclusion at the very end of it. If you watched the whole episode, you’ll know that this absolutely required its own dedicated part just to focus on. For the sake of a fair analysis, this will operate on the same standards that Death Battle themselves operate, rather than my usual methods (assuming you’ve seen it prior).
You can find part 1 here, and part 2 here.
This is probably the absolute hardest Mario vs. Sonic MU to decide on. Both sides have so many options, it’s dizzying, and any side could pull out a win from just unveiling one of their strongest weapons at the right time.
In fact, these instant win weapons are so numerous on both sides, that it turns the strength advantage, usually a major factor in any fight, into merely another number on the list of victory conditions. As such, while I will still provide my own strength calculations, I’ll primarily be focused on each of these trump cards, and what options the opposing army has in stopping them – alongside how both combatants could leverage these trump cards.
Let’s first list out the actual trump cards both sides have, just to make things clear:
Bowser:
Castle Bowser – can warp reality on a universal level, given enough time to charge up.
Dream Stone – can erase people from existence, and if broken its pieces can be consumed for Dreamy Bowser, which empowers him based on how many dreams he can absorb – potentially a raw power option if it can absorb enough dreams.
Fury Bowser – can mind control and corrupt others while he’s active in the form, alongside sending people to another world, and lastly invulnerability negation. Requires Bowser Jr.’s paint brush.
Star Rod – can grant wishes and is on par with the Star Spirits, who created the Dream Depot.
Painting (King Boo) – sealing. Anyone who gets trapped in this cannot escape.
Several ghosts – operating under King Boo, their release can destabilise the dimension.
Mind control.
Power Stars & Grand Stars – raw power.
Pure Hearts – raw power (but even more), invulnerability negation.
Eggman:
Metal Virus – transmutes any organic member infected by it into a metal zombie.
Finalised Phantom Ruby Prototype – can create tangible illusions (effectively reality warping) that only affect those the user wants to affect, alongside inverting gravity, creating an infinite army, and banishing others to Null Space (which blocks dimensional travel) – has 4 copies.
Phantom Ruby (original) – the same as above, except it provides its own power source. All Phantom Rubies can only be used by those with enough willpower, which amongst Eggman’s army includes Eggman himself, Infinite, Metal Sonic, and the Hardboiled Heavies.
Modified Phantom Ruby Prototype – can modify memories alongside the above’s effects, designed to alter the planet’s memories – has 2 copies. Can create infinitely sized areas via his Egg Fields, and thus has infinite range.
The Chaos Emeralds – just… so many things. Including raw power.
Mind Control Cannon – mind control.
Jewelled Sceptre – raw power (again).
Reverie – turns dreams into reality (aka real reality warping).
Sol Emeralds – they’re like the Chaos Emeralds.
Cyber Space (Sage) – can trap people within, separating their bodies and soul, and even (slowly) corrupt anyone who tries to save them. Even if they can escape, they’ll be left involuntarily intangible.
Time Eater – space-time erasure (and by proxy, existence erasure), raw power (yet again).
Supreme – raw power (constant showings of raw power).
Now all of these tools should – in theory – be able to instantly end the battle, or at bare minimum instantly remove the opposing side’s standard army, leaving it to just the main 2 to duke it out. However, a vast majority of these trump cards has at least 1 method of dealing with them, usually multiple. These are all of the checks and counters to those trump cards mentioned above (if you’re familiar with competitive Pokemon, those terms should be familiar to you – a check is anything that can prevent an opposing tool from working once it’s actively on the field, while a counter is either outright immunity or can be brought on after the fact to counteract it).
Bowser’s checks & counters:
Transmutation magic (Bowser, Kamek) – can counter the Metal Virus, and can check the Phantom Rubies, Jewelled Sceptre, Reverie, Mind Control Cannon, and Time Eater. Cannot counter the Chaos Emeralds, as the latter are not only able to undo their own transmutation, but still work even while transmutated.
Reality warping (Castle Bowser, Bowser to a lesser extent) – checks the Phantom Rubies’ own reality warping; Jewelled Sceptre, Reverie, the Time Eater, and Supreme. Counters the Mind Control Cannon.
Item theft (Kamek) – checks the Phantom Rubies, Jewelled Sceptre, Reverie, and Time Eater. Because of the presence of both the Chaos Emeralds and Sol Emeralds, attempting to steal either of them without knowing how to control them will destabilise the universe, and Eggman’s knowledge on this fact will prompt him to leave the universe immediately while Bowser’s side dies, letting him gain a technical win. Phantom Rubies will not work for Eggman’s side when stolen. Some of Eggman’s items can check his trump cards.
Power nullification (Kamek) – can check everything except the Metal Virus and Sage, especially the Chaos Emeralds and Sol Emeralds. While both can be restored by positive emotions, Eggman has never done so himself, and likely can’t due to his poor genuine leadership skills combined with his immense ego; leaving Sage as the only positive bond he has in this fight. Counters the Mind Control Cannon, as it does not function without Hyper-Go-On.
Illusions (King Boo, maybe Kamek) – since the Phantom Rubies are all illusion-based, counteracting the illusions should be a functional check to them.
Bowser’s computer brain (Bowser) – yeah his computer brain. It can restore his memories, allowing Bowser (albeit only Bowser) to counter the memory altering effects of the Modified Phantom Ruby Prototype.
Minion Spirit – makes Bowser’s army immune to mind control from sheer loyalty, if they’re devoted enough. Should also apply to Bowser himself, and is thus a check to both the Metal Virus and the Mind Control Cannon.
Existence erasure (Dream Stone) – is a soft check to everything Eggman can bring out, albeit it’s possible for Eggman to send Metal Sonic, or a Replica of Metal Sonic or Shadow into White Space to search for and restore whatever has been erased, if Eggman’s forces can stall for long enough.
Data immersion (King Boo) – is a very soft counter to Sage, by virtue of being the only individual who can directly deal with her when she’s not piloting Supreme. Cannot check Supreme directly, as Sage was unable to hack any of the Titans and could only pilot Supreme because it had no pilot.
Invulnerability negation (the Pure Hearts) – can negate invulnerability granted by the Chaos/Sol Emeralds.
Raw Power & restoration (the Pure Hearts) – can counter Eggman’s strongest weapons by virtue of equivalent power and counteracting space-time erasure (assuming finite values).
Eggman’s checks & counters:
That weird illusion/selective reality manipulation (the Phantom Rubies) – can check Castle Bowser (and Bowser’s reality manipulation), the Dream Stone, and Fury Bowser.
Reality warping (Reverie) – can check Castle Bowser, the Dream Stone, Fury Bowser, and the Star Rod.
Memory Manipulation – can check everything that doesn’t come from Bowser himself, and even remove some of Bowser’s own checks and counters such as Minion Spirit or his allies.
Dimensional travel (Chaos Control, Sage, potentially the Phantom Rubies) – can counter anyone being removed from the battlefield by Fury Bowser.
Item theft (Forcejewels) – can unreliably check the Wonder Flowers, Dream Stone, Star Rod, Power Stars, Grand Stars, and Pure Hearts. Some of Bowser’s items can check other items of his.
Mind Control Cannon – can unreliably check King Boo’s painting sealing, by forcing King Boo to undo the effect. Not guaranteed to work, given the potential of true minion spirit, but given there is no indication King Boo is particularly loyal it should be more likely to work than not. Even if Eggman is taken out, Sage can use the mind control cannon on King Boo to undo it.
Sage – given she’s not a physical entity and is really on the EggNet, she should be able to ignore Kamek’s mind control and send Eggman out of range to command his troops from afar, or take direct control of Eggman’s army – a check.
Neo Metal Sonic – his bio-data copying means that he can become immune to any check/counter that comes from an innate ability of any of the Koopa Troop, which can potentially counter many of Bowser’s own checks and counters.
Damage transfer (rings) – checks Bowser’s Power Stars, Grand Stars, and Pure Hearts, as they allowed base Sonic to survive hits from The End, a being more powerful than even Solaris and Time Eater.
Shield (Sage) – is able to block hits from even The End, serving as a check to the Power Stars and even Pure Hearts.
Raw power (Chaos Emeralds, Jewelled Sceptre, Sol Emeralds, Time Eater, Supreme) counters Bowser’s Power Stars and the Pure Hearts (assuming peak values).
That’s a lot, isn’t it? But if you noticed, everything has at least 1 check or 1 counter to it, no matter how unreliable that check/counter actually is.
Some highlights include:
The Chaos/Sol Emeralds are only checked by Kamek and the Dream Stone, and attempting to steal them will in fact force a tie from the resulting destruction and destabilisation.
Kamek alone checks so many of Eggman’s trump cards that he’ll end up becoming a priority target as the battle goes on.
Metal Sonic, if he’s not shut down by Kamek, can continue to copy more and more of Bowser’s powers based off of the bio-data of him and his army, which means that with enough time he can gain a majority of the checks and counters that Bowser’s army has, and gain immunity from them as a result (albeit that likely came too late for it to influence the result of the Death Battle).
Sage, due to being part of the EggNet/Cyerbspace, can only be checked by the Dream Stone and King Boo, meaning she’ll become a top priority to deal with by the end of the battle. Piloting Supreme ironically makes her more vulnerable, given that if Supreme is destroyed while she’s piloting it she’ll die too.
Bowser’s computer brain is the only true method Bowser has to deal with the modified Phantom Ruby’s memory manipulation, and he’ll need to get rid of it as soon as possible if he doesn’t want his allies turning against him.
Supreme is the most dangerous of the raw power weapons on Eggman’s army, as it came in pre-charged and doesn’t need continued use of the Chaos Emeralds unless it were to get its power drained, and is invulnerable to conventional damage.
Altogether, the sheer volume of weapons plus the fact that every single one of them has the potential to be stopped in its tracks with the right set up means that ultimately this duel is going to come down to a quick draw – who can pull off a broken win condition first. Which, of course, means that stats is the next most important factor to bring up.
And I’ll be bringing out stats twice for each side, a calculated finite value, and their absolute peak.
Power:
Bowser (base):
Finite: 2.28012318407×10^108 Foe – Can defeat Culex, who claimed – after gaining a 3rd dimensional form – to be capable of destroying all of time and space. Assuming this would destroy the entire universe at every single moment in time down to the Planck time, and assuming the universe is as old as ours from Big Bang to present, this is the value required to destroy the universe. Mario (and by proxy Bowser) has gotten stronger since then.
Peak: Infinite – could defeat Culex, who claimed to be capable of destroying all of time and space.
Power Stars & Grand Stars:
Finite: 8.05115087719×10^50 Foe – 284 Power Stars/Grand Stars, with one possessing enough power to destroy the universe. Likely lower, as Power Stars are weaker than Grand Stars.
Peak: Infinite – unspecified boost from every single Power Star and Grand Star.
Pure Hearts
Finite: 2.28012318407×10^108 Foe – their amp allowed Bowser to defeat foes amplified by the Chaos Heart – which is strong enough to destroy the entire space-time of a universe (same as the Culex finite feat). Much higher to an unquantifiable degree, as every universe should bring back a roughly equivalent value.
Peak: Infinite multiverse – could threaten the entire Mario multiverse.
Eggman (base mechs):
Finite: 1.4125×10^48 Foe – can fight with Sonic, who while weakened could defeat the Erazor Djinn empowered by half of the World of the Arabian Nights, which should be comparable to a universe given it resembles Earth and has stars. Sonic has gotten stronger since then, and Eggman constantly upgrades his machines to match.
Peak: Infinite/2 – the World of the Arabian Nights includes an infinitely sized location, which should make the whole universe infinite in size.
Chaos Emeralds:
Finite: 2.28012318407×10^108 Foe – Solaris could destroy the entire space-time of a universe (same as the finite Culex feat). Much higher to an unquantifiable degree, as every universe should bring back a roughly equivalent value.
Peak: Infinite 4th dimensional multiverse – Solaris could threaten the entire Sonic multiverse (Maginaryworld is explicitly confirmed to be 4th dimensional, and when the (weaker) Paradox Prism shattered Sonic’s prime universe into the Shatterverse, it was divided into multiple universe sized spaces with separate space-times and ended with restoring the original universe within the Shatterverse, suggesting that a universe is a higher dimensional construct housing one or more 3rd dimensional spaces within).
Now that was power, and as you can see who’s stronger depends on whether we’re using finite values or infinite values (Bowser handily taking the advantage in the prior category, Eggman taking the advantage in the latter). But as I said before, raw power is not important in this fight, and merely a bullet point on the list of ways they could win.
The real important stat is speed, and well...
Speed:
Bowser:
Finite: 24,450,000,000,000,000 C (24.45 quadrillion times the speed of light) – Mario flew to the trial galaxies – located at the edge of the universe with a launch star (and back with a Power Star), and can react at these speeds (as evidenced by landing on his feet and picking up star bits on the way) – given this happens before Mario rescues Peach from Bowser, each trip should take no more than 6 hours to make, but I’ll be generous and claim it took 1 minute.
I know Death Battle claimed this trip took 3 seconds, but there’s a loading screen both to and from the Trial Galaxies, and when the loading screen ends Mario is already back at the observatory – and the trip to the galaxy features a menu while Mario is flying at high speeds (as evidenced by the moving speed lines), which doesn’t have any time limit to the player selecting the Star, making the true time frame hard to accurately verify.
Peak: 24,450,000,000,000,000 C (24.45 quadrillion times the speed of light) – Mario flew to the trial galaxies – located at the edge of the universe with a launch star (and back with a Power Star), and can react at these speeds (as evidenced by landing on his feet and picking up star bits on the way).
Eggman:
Finite: 48,900,000,000,000,000 C (48.9 quadrillion times the speed of light) – Time Eater erased the entire universe in seconds. Even though we see Shadow sent to White Space in the time it took to raise his hands, and Sonic’s chilli dog landed back in his hand instead of landing on the ground after he defeated the Time Eater, I’ll be strict and assume a 30 second time span. Eggman was piloting the Time Eater, and Classic Sonic and Shadow could each react to this feat happening to them, so by all accounts this should scale to Eggman’s reaction time (and the reaction time of his post-Generations machines). In addition, later in Frontiers base Sonic could react to the Titans, who are themselves empowered by the Chaos Emeralds.
Peak: Immeasurable – regularly battles Sonic, who could restore areas erased from time by the Time Eater with his raw speed.
… Oh. Even with being generous towards Bowser, and strict towards Eggman, Eggman still ended up faster. You could argue that I could be even more generous towards Bowser, or even more strict towards Eggman – and that’s true – however, the opposite is true as well.
If we treat both these feats as generously as possible Eggman’s speed feat should still be extremely close to Bowser’s, enough to have little relevance, while if we treat both of them as strictly as possible Mario’s half-universal trip has a lot more potential time to cross than Sonic’s chilli dog flight.
All of this, of course, while ignoring the fact that Shadow Generations just provided a better speed feat than before with no ambiguity, showing Time Eater erasing the universe in 12 seconds – and no loading screen, so the timeframe is exact. This likely wouldn’t be added into the voiceover, but would absolutely make it into the analysis & black boxes given information from Mario & Luigi: Brotherhood made it in.
And that’s just talking about the finite values, once we delve into their hypothetical peaks that speed advantage just gets exaggerated, and Eggman just speed blitzes Bowser’s entire army and wins for free.
If we exclusively discuss in terms of finite values then Bowser’s strong enough to one shot anything that isn’t a Super tier in base, but only his Pure Hearts form is strong enough to contend with those Super tiers. This raw power gap would also prompt Eggman to rely on his trump cards far quicker than usual (something he already tends to go for), making an incredibly close match, but ultimately one that Eggman should come out on top for.
This in addition to Sage being able to make millions of calculations in a short time span, whose battle strategy is said by Sage herself to be on focusing on the best method of survival, and whose intelligence surpasses even Eggman’s, thanks to her AI nature and being integrated with the Ancients’ Cyber Space.
Or in other words…
Eggman wins.
Thank you for reading my 3 part response to Death Battle – or at least reading any one of my 3 parts, I hope you enjoyed this deep dive into the match-up, and I hope Death Battle going independent means that they can continue to push and evolve the show even further beyond what it’s been this last decade.
Happy independence!