HSPL, human speakable programming language: If you can write a story, you can write a program.
17:38 < vulture-> thats the basics
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17:38 < elspru> I program in asm, I pronounce it awesome.
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17:39 < elspru> oh btw, in terms of OS's, I'm working on GIOS general-intelligence-operating-system, currently writing it's
base or the HSPL the human-speakable-programming-language
17:39 < vulture-> so basically the linux OS provides no built-in memory management outside of page granularity while windows
still does :P
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17:39 < vulture-> human speakable programming languages make me cry
17:39 < ThFabba> That's because Linux is just a kernel
17:39 < elspru> why?
17:40 < ThFabba> Every actual installation of it also has a libc, including malloc ^^
17:40 < elspru> vulture-: they could get more fems into programming, thereby increasing chance of computer programmers
procreating.
17:40 < vulture-> because as a programmer.... its the exact opposite of what I want :D
17:40 < vulture-> yeah but if you cant understand basic computer science, do you really want those people to program
17:41 < elspru> computer-science is just a bunch of symbol-languges only historically related to computers.
17:41 < vulture-> computer science is math :D
17:41 < vulture-> if you dont understand algorithms, how will you program
17:42 < vulture-> you can do hello world, but can you sort?
17:42 < elspru> if you can write a story, can also write a program.
17:42 < elspru> I can make any conceivable algorithm with a turing complete language.
17:43 < vulture-> I disagree with this "[16.41.49] <elspru> if you can write a story, can also write a program."
17:43 < vulture-> unless your program is simply "hello world" :)
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17:44 < elspru> storys and programs have many similarities, i.e setting be read-only variables, variables be
story-characters, procedures/function/structure be plot
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17:44 < elspru> there is usually a result or moral of the story also
17:45 < neuro_sys> as an english literature major, I agree to a great extent. the main difference is that a n00b story
writer can think that they have written a fully functional story.
17:47 < vulture-> also the huge abstractions used to make it spokeny are generally counterproductive
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17:48 < elspru> I
17:48 < vulture-> I more simply think that basic computer science (specifically algorithmic thinking) should be a required
course for all!
17:48 < neuro_sys> agreed!
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17:48 < vulture-> I havent seen recent human speakable programming languages but they used to be really bad looking
17:48 < elspru> 'd rather say that graphs are "huge abstractions" however to make it speakable simply have to use
case-grammar words like to, of, be,
17:49 < ThFabba> <vulture-> I more simply think that basic computer science (specifically algorithmic thinking) should be a
required course for all! << it doesn't? What kind of weird school are you at?
17:49 < vulture-> as a side note, I've been actively working on graphical programming languages, which I think also have
similar problems :D
17:49 < vulture-> ThFabba :(
17:49 < ThFabba> s/doesn't/isn't/
17:49 < elspru> I agree with algorithmic thinking education being beneficial for people
17:49 < neuro_sys> it should start in elementary year
17:49 < ThFabba> Uh
17:49 < vulture-> haha
17:50 < vulture-> I wish!
17:50 * neuro_sys was dead serious. -_-
17:50 < vulture-> we have 12 years of physics in grade school through high school why not algorithmic thinking too!
17:50 < kaste> actually we do now :)
17:50 < kaste> you live in the wrong place
17:50 < vulture-> (I wouldnt mind it only being like a 1 semester high school thing)
17:51 < neuro_sys> kaste: where is it? some scandinavian country I suppose?
17:51 < kaste> germany
17:52 < elspru> my partner is early-childhood-educator, currently doing language development with infants.
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17:52 < kaste> it seems to be the new math though, most kids hate and do pretty bad
17:53 < kaste> +it
17:53 < kaste> dunno if it helps the others though and if they wouldn't have picked it up anyway
17:55 < elspru> I was hoping that GIOS could be like a mentor and a friend to users, so could sit a kid down at a prompt,
and they would learn all they need to thrive in the world.
17:55 < neuro_sys> yeah, remember reading an article on that, computer programming courses in school reduce the appeal of
the job for the current generation than it had been before.
17:58 < elspru> I'm a pirate
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18:00 < vulture-> neuro_sys: weeding out the people who dont want to earlier is a good thing, since they will probably not
want to later ANYWAY, and if for some reason they do, they will probably be an utter failure to the
community, which is also a bad thing
18:01 < vulture-> and then people that do want to, they can start at an earlier age, which is good
18:01 < elspru> i.e. I only program for the fullfillment of my own agenda. I tried jobs but didn't like it, instead I do
magick AKA universe programming rather than money to get resources.
18:02 < elspru> hopefully with the advent of HSPL it'll be more accessible and empowering to people, so people will start
programming even without courses in schools, but by simply downloading and installing some "game".
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18:04 < vulture-> :D
18:04 < vulture-> :D
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18:06 < neuro_sys> yeah, right. but I think improper premature education may also put some children off getting into it at
an early age, while they could do so on their own.
18:06 < neuro_sys> it'd be a negligible loss though I guess.
18:08 < neuro_sys> anyway, in 80s lots of children loved and got involved in programming, and some of them're kicking ass
now.
18:09 < neuro_sys> now it's not as lovely for the current children as it were I imagine.
18:09 < elspru> our whole education system is geared for an overhaul anyhow, it's monolithic centralized, though
decentralized, distributed systems are more resilient
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18:11 < elspru> also a distributed educational system, could allow for a greater diversity of intelligence, more
specialization, as well as give rise to generalists, much like an eco-system.
