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#718
If SNW insists on giving Spock a string of failed romances, they should at least also make Spock/McCoy canon. Not because I ship it but because it'd explain their dynamic in TOS in a funny way: they're bickering bitter exes, of course.
Sprunki has same face syndrome /j
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“I always wanted a Winx Club episode or special where they have to face dark copies of themselves.”
“Nino looks like a turtle :'D”
In regards to the 718 discussion, it really doesn't matter if McCoy or Spock are racist (personally I think McCoy just dislikes Spock and Spock dislikes Humans including half of himself) because most people in the fandom don't write them like that anyway, and the show is from the 60s where casual racism was, in fact, the mainstream. Take it with a pinch of salt and block the Spones tag if you hate the ship that much.
Now, if SNW brings McCoy in and him and Spock are still hate crime-ing each other in 2024, then there's a discussion to be had.
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About all the following discussion surrounding confession #718: I think y'all read too much into it. Imma try not go too much into details but I'll start by stating I see where both sides of the debate come from.
For now let's ignore any mention of the original series being made in the 60s and also any implication of sexual tension with the "bickering". I will also only talk of the original character depictions.
Fact: McCoy many times unnecessarily makes fairly insulting comments to Spock about being Vulcan. Also fact: this only applies to Spock. Throughout the series and movies, he never makes any comments torward other Vulcans, like Sarek, Saavik or Valeris. This is because Spock is half Vulcan and is explicitely shown to be disgusted at his Human side (yes, that makes him racist as someone else pointed out), and because of that trying to force, prove his Vulcanness to a point it would be unnatural even for a full Vulcan, and McCoy doesn't like or understand that, which his why most of his actually offensive remarks ("slurs", i'll come back to that) happen in a critical moment when Spock is convinced acting the most Vulcan way possible is what will work when it's shown not to (whether or not it's a valid way to let out frustration is another debate). Replace Spock with Tuvok and you wouldn't see any of that. Throughout TOS Bones shows a respect to the differences of other cultures, including defending Spock's Vulcan side when outsiders act genuinely hostile torward him for being a Vulcan.
About the slurs, it seems like a lot of people equate McCoy's insults to ethnic slurs, but there's no indication they're established slurs at all and I highly doubt this, looks more like only McCoy's using obscure words to criticize Spock. I just wanted to clarify that because I think it's an important detail.
Now about the original series being made in the 60s. Ignoring actual racist sentiments, as someone who has read historical memoirs from early-middle 20th century (period in which the creators grew up), making explicit comments about a friend's racial and ethnic background without any ill intent wasn't uncommon, if just to give a little more context.
About the bickering and sexual tension: besides the "old married couple" energy (which personally makes me slightly uncomfortable) and comments about private anatomical differences, I too dislike the idea racist comments would imply anything (from both parties). Besides, it goes with a lot of mischaracterization of Spock and his private life, and on a side-note, I've come to kind of try to ignore any shipping content of Spock with anyone because I feel like people reaaaally misunderstand him and that annoys me.
About the Katra sharing etc: it is explicitely shown in TOS and the movies that Spock and McCoy are as a matter of fact very close to each other (from their interactions but most importantly their body language, especially considering Spock's Vulcan heritage) and implying that he had to deal with McCoy as workplace courtesy, and that he wasn't at least one of Spock's first choices for Katra-storing (a deeply personal procedure) is dishonest at best (besides knocked out Scotty was right there!) I can only think of Kirk and maybe Saavik before him.
Hopefully this is the last ask related to this confession as it seems this whole discussion is starting to get judgmental. Force to OP for having to deal with us, lol.
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Per 718: It's really bad media literacy analysis to look at media outside of the lens in which it was written so while yes you can read McCoy and Spock's behavior as racist by today's standards, you do not analyze their characters through those standards. The writers did not intend for the behavior to be taken as racist. Therefore, within the context of the show, they aren't being racist.
If you want to talk about how the show itself has racism and sexism in it that's your business but I think everyone needs to remember that this whole conversation is happening because someone said they like Spones and someone else told them that shipping Spones is wrong because McCoy is racist and that is incorrect within the context of the show where its clearly intended for McCoy and Spock to have a bickering relationship rather than an actually antagonist one and rude to tell someone about their ship even if it was correct.
Within the context of this conversation, it doesn't actually matter if McCoy is racist or not. It matters that you can't tell someone what or how to ship something and tying it to a moral wrong like racism doesn't change that.
You know that I was so busy worrying about mediation that I didn't even remember what the original confession was about... 😅
Re confession 718: Four arguments I have seen made by those who don’t see McCoy as racist are:
1) mccoy’s love language is dishing out insults because he is oh so soft inside. Bickering as love language: Hmm okay, this works when two people are from similar backgrounds. It doesn’t work when there are completely different cultures and languages involved. To read between the lines requires a very high degree of cultural compatibility. So when Mccoy sneers and jabs at Spock, then the insults are just that - insults. Spock says very explicitly to McCoy that he never liked slurs by McCoy. “I don’t like it, never did.” (Quoting from memory)
2) Spock works with Mccoy just fine. If he was truly offended he would leave: No. Spock’s job and career are at stake. Workplace racism is different than social. One cannot just quit. And one cannot even stop working with a coworker. Spock is strong enough to keep working with McCoy but that is NOT an indication of absence of racism. And Jim’s presence is a huge factor. Without Jim, Spock would absolutely leave because McCoy would have no one to keep him in check.
3) Spock transfers his katra to Mccoy : First of all the movies are different in their tone. The characters of Jim and McCoy are very different but still let’s talk about it. Yes, he does. There was no one else available. It was not Spock’s first choice. And there was no time. It is not as if McCoy has no positive qualities. McCoy is a racist not a murderer. In real life, plenty of racist people are very caring about others, good citizens, intelligent etc. So Spock does what he has to do but that is not the same as Spock somehow declaring his ‘true’ feelings for McCoy.
4) That’s sexual tension between them: It’s fine if people ship them and want to read that as sexual tension but it’s not okay to dismiss a very serious issue- racism - as sexual tension. People can totally ship them but they should also acknowledge that there are serious problems with how mccoy behaves in canon. Also, ‘sex solves everything’ is a hugely problematic approach to take.
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