#conwank

[s-cornelius]

hi! I saw an ask you answered reblogged on my dash and I'm not sure how long ago the ask was but you answered that you thought we were headed toward canon destiel. I was just wondering if you still think we're heading there what with all the negativity and no-homo stuff we're hearing from actors (mostly jensen) at cons now. Because I'd really like to hope we are but it just feels impossible now with all the stuff I'm hearing :/

I’ve been getting these sorts of questions a lot lately, and if you peruse my anonymous tag, you can see how I feel about canon!Destiel, s10 spoilers and con answers. 

Some relevant posts for you might be this one on my optimism after s9 (which is probably the most helpful), this one on general s10 spoilers, and the second half of this one for how I feel about comments made at cons.

When you hear things that make you less optimistic, always question where they're coming from. With spoilers, remember that the purpose is not to be informative, but to grab people's attentions. With cons, remember that the actor's thoughts/feelings have no bearing on the show, they're trying to appeal to a large audience who can turn on them quickly, and sometimes they're just being little shits. 

[s-cornelius]

a lot of people are saying "well it wouldn't make sense if the writers did this..." or "the writers will do this cause they did this already.." but we've already seen that the writers do what they want regardless of what's good for the story hell this girl could be dean's endgame because they want her to be regardless of what should happen i want to be optimistic but after the whole jensen con wank and this girl idk it's just hard ya know?

You're most certainly entitled to your opinion about the season and the Carver era and canon Destiel. However, as far as I've been watching it, the Carver era structure has been incredibly solid, so I have faith that what has been set up will be paid off. This season we've seen all sorts of foreshadowing from s8 paid off and it has been an excellent indication of just how tight the overall structure is. I admit that individual episodes haven't always been up to snuff, and overall pacing is not Carver's strongest suit (but it's not like it was Kripke's or Gamble's either ... ), but the season-long arcs in s8 and s9 and the overall Carver era arcs have been consistent, solid, and fucking fantastic as far as I'm concerned.

As to Jensen's comments at JIBCON, they don't matter one damn bit. It's been said many many times, but it bears repeating, that cons are PR not showrunning. Also, it's pretty clear Jensen was being a little shit (and probably trying rile up Misha lbr). Plus he's said time and time again, not to mention his actions indicate, that he loves acting with Misha, loves the DeanCas dynamic, and would like more of Misha/Cas rather than less of him. Any information from cons should be taken with an ENORMOUS grain of salt, and even if that's how Jensen truly feels (which I seriously doubt, because he acts like a man hopelessly in love, e.g. the Naomi scene in Taxi Driver), his opinions don't have any bearing on what actually transpires in the show. 

[gruntsandpoetry]

I'm just having a argument about Jensen's opinion about Dean and Cas. It's so pointless and I feel like shit. They're literally saying that my interpretation of the show doesn't matter because Jensen and Jared(not Misha tho) knows better :(

Ehhhhh try and just ignore people like that nonny. I know that's easier said than done, but it's just not worth getting yourself upset over. Just look at it this way, Jared said that the Sam/Amelia storyline was all about showing how much Sam and Dean need each other which is....like the opposite purpose that the storyline served. Cons are just PR, and at this point I really am convinced that they're trying to play both sides...showing one thing in the show, while saying another thing at cons and in interviews. It's all about trying to keep everyone happy and watching because we're consumers and it's their job to keep as many people around as possible.

The best thing you can do is just realize that not everyone is going to agree with you, but someone else's opinions or views in no way negate your own. Trust what you see in the show, that's what matters. <3

[gruntsandpoetry]

Alright, explain this to me. How are you confident that Supernatural has any chance of Destiel going canon when BOTH Jensen and Jared seem against it. I listened to the con videos multiple times. Jensen is clearly against it. Yes, he is saying there is no secret part of their relationship, but he is also saying he is happy Dean and Castiel didn't share many scenes this year. He is also saying support for a queer interpretation is out of proportion. He is also saying that he is not playing Dean

I mean that's your own personal take on it though? Not mine at all. I'm confident because I observe with my eyes and the structure of the show is clear. Also...he was clearly being a little shit to Misha when we said "I kind of enjoyed that" re: Dean and Cas not having much or a storyline? Because I mean....they clearly did have a storyline but okay. However you choose to see it is up to you tho. Your truth, not mine.

But like however you interpret it you can't just put words in Jensen's mouth and say when he said the Dean and Cas situation was "out of proportion" that he clearly mean QUEER REPRESENTATION ON THE SHOW IS OUT OF PROPORTION. THAT IS NOT THE SAME THING. Like we really don't even know what he intended to convey there, I have my take on it, but yours feels too much like literally twisting his words around to make him seem like this big queer hating homophobe and that's incredibly unfair.

I've said my piece on this, my thoughts are in my 'conwank' tag if you'd like to know my take on all of this. This will be the last ask I answer about this matter because seriously, there is nothing more I can say. It's not my job to tell ANYONE how to feel, if you've lost hope then I'm sorry. If you're hurting, I'm sorry. But our views of the entire situation clearly do not align.

[gruntsandpoetry]

Holly, I have this question, you can answer me privately if you want. Do you think actors interpretation is better because they play characters for some years and know them best or fans interpretations is best because they rewatch show many times and write metas? I think it's equal, but I want to know your opinion.

I'm gonna publish this actually if you don't mind. :) I think what we need to keep in mind is that what is said at cons and what the actors actually portray on screen are often two very different things. If we're talking about someone like Jensen who very clearly DOES know his character incredibly well, but sometimes puts his foot in his mouth and/or says things that some may feel contradict what is actually coming across, things can get a bit complicated.

Jensen is incredibly private, guarded, closed off, and doesn't necessarily understand what it is we actually want. That combined with being in front of thousands of people at a con can make for...well...what happened this weekend. What matters is what comes across on our screens, and not what is said at a convention aka a glorified pr fest. And what do I see when I watch Jensen's portrayal of Dean? I see him as having subtly played Dean as bi since season 2 (he'll probably never admit to this publicly, but I observe with my eyes), and I see him playing up the Dean/Cas dynamic like crazy whenever he has the chance.

Anyways, this is gonna get really wordy if I don't just cut straight to my point which is: the only thing that matters with regards to spn is what you see on your television and what YOU take away from it. And when that interpretation just so happens to align with the actual structure of the story, then you can take comfort in the fact that you're not crazy, and you're not seeing something that isn't there. It is there, and it is intentional.

[s-cornelius]

chargetransfer replied to your post: (Tumblr ate my response TWICE, so h...

I thought about writing my thoughts on what’s been boiling this weekend, but im with you on what you’ve posted. Most of my frustration is for the show people’s misunderstanding of how deep feelings run. I’m cynical & have little hope, but many do.

I think the word 'misunderstanding' is actually a really great way to understand how conwank happens. There are misunderstandings about the purpose of cons, what people want from cons, what people want from the show, why the actors do cons in the first place, how the fans view the show, how they interact with the show, etc. And this is what causes wank; one wrong word, or one word taken the wrong way and everyone assumes the worst. Everyone thinks that someone was said/done maliciously, but really it is just misunderstanding.

[gruntsandpoetry]

It's Not Broken: or why my ship has not been sunk, so please stop apologizing.

I said I wasn't going to talk about this anymore, but there is something I need to get off my chest. Maybe it will help those who may be hurting, maybe not. I don't want to invalidate anyone's feelings, so please know that if you are upset I am sorry and your feelings do matter.

Anyways, I've been seeing so many posts while attempting to navigate the jibcon and cockles tags for happy things that are apologizing to Dean/Cas shippers for our ship having been sunk. The thing is though...what are you apologizing for? My ship is not now, nor has it ever been, sunk. On Friday before jib we were at an all time high, at least as far as the people I follow are concerned. We were all ecstatic with how the season ended, and what has been set up for season 10. So what has changed exactly?

I think I may have a different view of Jensen's statements than most. The way I see it, he doesn't even watch the show half the time, let alone know anything about the inner workings of fandom. I believe he was making a lighthearted jab at Misha when he said that he was glad they didn't have much of a storyline in season 9 (especially considering they...sorta did), but I do believe his comment about it getting "out of proportion" is true to what he thinks. But not in the way we may think he means it. This is usually how it goes with Jensen, he says a thing and he doesn't quite mean it that way, and it results in too many hurt feelings.

To Jensen it may appear that people who ship Dean/Cas romantically want it to be the central focus of the show. I believe that's what he was referring to. Not anything about the actual onscreen relationship, but about his perception of what others were trying to change within the show. I don't know how much Jensen knows about fandom, or who tells him what, but I can only imagine people like Guy Bee have maybe filled his ears with nonsense about crazy shippers trying to push their agendas on the show. What he doesn't realize though is that what we want, or I'll just speak for myself and say what I want, is what is already being built up. I don't want Supernatural to be a fluffy romance story. I don't. I love it for what it is...but Dean and Cas ARE written romantically, and season 9 has done nothing to slow that train.

I also believe that Jared's statement was meant to convey the same thing. They just...don't get it. And that's okay, this is our fandom and they're not really supposed to get it. At the end of the day, even if their opinions WERE different from this, and Jensen actually just hated acting with Misha and Jared was a big meany who thinks queer love would ruin the show...it doesn't matter. They're actors, they're not writers. They don't pay much attention to the structure, and that much is glaringly obvious, which is why I'm really not bothered at all anymore about what they think is happening in the show, what they think we want, or what they actually think should happen.

I hope we can all move on from this soon, every now and again we're dealt a blow that feels like the end and it never is. As far as I'm concerned Dean/Cas is an unsinkable ship. The chemistry between Jensen and Misha is simply too dynamic, the structure of the show since season 8 has been too clear in it's intentions, and there are no signs as of 9x23 that this team intends on backing down anytime soon.

So thanks for your concern, but please stop apologizing. Time heals all wounds that some may be feeling now, and as far as I'm concerned this ship will never go down.

[queernatural]

I dunno, I don’t want to tell anybody how to feel, but I still feel that what Jensen said wasn’t as bad as everyone thinks (i.e. He was quashing the notion that Dean and Cas were having sex off-screen) and I /seriously/ question the validity of Jared’s statements when the guy has these really bizarre opinions on all other aspects of the show. He’s an actor playing neither of the characters involved, nor a director or writer.

I don’t know. I mean, Jensen made that whole comment about 8x13 how Dean’s this “manly heterosexual guy getting flustered”, meanwhile Edlund and the episode director said that it had “a romcom vibe, like a potential for Dean’s character” so I just. I feel like not everything is clear cut, end of canon destiel.

I will be maintaining a distance from tumblr for the hiatus period though. For my own mental health. I recommend other people take care of themselves too. Do what’s right for you. If stepping out is what you need, then go for it. It’s all good!