#dark s3

[romqncesh]

All the time traveling in Dark and NO ONE thought they'd try and fuck the older version of themself🤔🤔🤔

[hurngry]

oh my god sweet baby elisabeth 😭 im so sorry

[spectraling]

How do you think things would have changed if Alt!Martha had stayed with Stranger Jonas in 1888? Once I had an idea of them actually having the baby in Jonas's world... Which technically wouldn't have changed many things because he would have maybe still married Agnes. Even when Dark is a super archy tight Stable Time Loop, one wonders...

Ooh, interesting. I had to sit down and think about this one, lol. I mean as long as everything checks out we can change things around! You need to strap in tho bc I am discussing this with myself at length.

One thing I didn't like about s3 is that it felt too rushed (we needed another season for all the things and characters they introduced honestly) and not nearly enough time was spent with a bunch of characters, the Sic Mundus crew being one of them. Jonas' arc to becoming Adam was one of the most engaging things for me to watch and it felt very bare bones in the end. Having Alt Martha staying around for longer would give us more time to spend with all characters in 1888, including Martha herself. If she'd also somehow become stuck, we'd also get to develop Jonas and Alt Martha's relationship more, which is another thing that just happened...way too fast lol, Martha went from not knowing Jonas to fucking him in like a day?? I'd prefer the drama of Stranger Jonas overcoming his distrust of Alt Martha slowly, and Martha warming up to him, mixed in with the already existing drama of that crew.

When Alt Martha went to 1888 she was already pregnant tho, right? She'd already fucked another version of Jonas lol. But I mean...technically Stranger Jonas already is the father of the unknown since the split versions of Jonas are just different instances of the same person (a sentence I never thought I'd write). Actually Martha at this point doesn't even know she's pregnant so uh, if she got together with Stranger Jonas they might not be able to tell it didn't happen bc of that (and again Stranger Jonas is also always the father of the unknown so identical child unless we're gonna bring age into the whole thing but let's not for simplicity's sake), altho she would still have been with younger Jonas and the timing might be more accurate for that encounter, especially if we imagine that she stays for a while before she develops a relationship with Stranger Jonas. Can't imagine tptb would allow Alt Martha to fuck around in 1888 tho, unless Stranger Jonas was the sole reason for the unknown. He would have to be uh, personally responsible for this one lol.

But maybe your idea didn't include Martha and younger Jonas' meeting and her indeed becoming pregnant by developing a relationship with Stranger Jonas instead...which would make the split Jonas redundant and we'd miss out on some great drama: Stranger's distrust being heightened bc of him not remembering her, showing Jonas the world he thought he wanted, which was one without him, and also we don't get the Jonas-being-killed-while-young-how-can-this-be twist. It's ofc possible to retain the idea of Jonas being shown the Alt world simply by having Martha explaining it to him, which she already does.

I'm not sure about Martha's motivations without having previously been intimate with/in love with younger Jonas tho. He's essential for getting Alt Martha's plot going, so having a hard time justifying getting completely rid of him (also that Jonas is the main character sort of so he couldn't be out of the game for most of the season until we get the third split in the finale). It would be possible to get around this by having someone else, maybe Eva herself who's sole motivation is to keep the loop going for her son, instigating Martha's plot. However, Martha would then have no prior emotional connection to Jonas so her developing/retaining feelings for Stranger Jonas seems more unlikely, unless we just want to go the "we are bound together by space and time and can't help ourselves" route, which I guess the show canonically does by having younger Jonas and Alt Martha get it on so incredibly quickly anyway lol. On the other hand I would terribly miss the parallel of OG and Alt Martha both seeing Jonas' older self and having the same kind of gut reaction bc both of them believe the Jonas they love is dead but have a chance to meet him again, only this time much older. They both become very emotional about it and accept Jonas' identity as this man instantly. This is a great segue into feelings deepening on Martha's end. We need the same kind of prerequisite for Stranger Jonas as well, as he's incredibly drawn to Alt Martha bc of her intrinsic connection to OG Martha and all of that emotional history. You can tell he's fighting so hard to keep his guard up even in the brief canon we get.

If we want to make things simple we could just not have Martha fuck younger Jonas, but they still develop feelings for each other and kiss (or just don't do that kind of fucking, but how would any filmmaker depict passion between cis men and women without its normative shorthands lol).

Anyway, Adam would still want to send Martha to Stranger Jonas in this scenario, as I'm assuming we would still get some kind of betrayal where she leaves..possibly with a baby/child? Jonas losing his child in the same way he witnessed Elisabeth and Noah lose theirs??? There is Some Drama to be had with this whole situation. Also just Stranger Jonas and a version of Martha uh consummating their relationship would be quite something to see just for the drama of that (not that regular surrounding people would bat an eye, this is the 1800's after all...). It would reinforce the mess that is the time loop, and would also be interesting bc of the what-ifs and tension that was left hanging when Stranger Jonas met OG Martha in s2 (answer: they get together but everything is still fucked). Also also, and this is important: it would make Stranger Jonas' dream about being with Martha foreshadowing. The nightmarish aspect of it, the God particle lunging out from her stomach, would be foreshadowing to their baby and the horrors that this Jonas would experience bc of it.

Pretty interesting, huh? I never understood why the obvious metaphor for the unknown was in the dreams of the Jonas that specifically never had their son - this would explain that. I guess it's also possible that it was just supposed to be some kind of metaphor for his anxiety wrt time travel and how it messed up his relationship with Martha but look the particle came out of her womb, that's a pretty obvious nod to pregnancy and the unknown being the ultimate result of time travel. The unknown is also the creator of the God particle. This show never misses an opportunity for some juicy foreshadowing!

What would the Sic Mundus crew think tho? They're friends (and relatives lol) of Jonas and even if this Magnus is not Alt Martha's brother I'm sure there would be some shock and horror of them getting together (feeding Bartosz's distancing of himself from Jonas anyone?). This doesn't comply with how Magnus and Franziska...comply with Jonas' plans. It's never even explained why they agreed to just end all of their lives and the lives of their loved ones in the first place, but I'm assuming in this theoretical season we would have more time to explore their motivations as well. Would Jonas and Martha keep their relationship secret? I mean if there's a kid involved I'm assuming others would be in the know. During this time Jonas might even become disinterested in working on the God particle and that would definitely not sit well with Bartosz for example. Jonas would be completely seduced by the fact he could be with Martha now, in some way (and only distantly related now, to themselves, lol).

At some point Martha would have to leave, tho. She could be manipulated into doing so, but also she still has her own entire world that is being destroyed and her motivations for going away can still be explained, even if it would now pain her immensely to do so.

She wouldn't have to be stuck in 1888 I guess, but it certainly helps with the development of their relationship since they would have a sort of enemies to lovers arc. You can also explain things like accidental pregnancy when you're you know..in the 1800's and there's no contraceptives and abortions must've been incredibly dangerous if they even existed. So you can see how, even if they might both be terrified of whatever this child means for the loop, they kind of accept it happening. Also I'm sure Adam wouldn't send her to specifically seduce his younger self, he just knows it happens anyway, so there's no weird baby-making mission lol.

It would definitely compound Jonas' trauma to have all of this happen. It would definitely be another way to just drive home how fucked everything is. He would be deceived in a much more severe way so I don't see this interfering with Jonas' arc to becoming Adam. In fact it would probably speed up the process lol. God, Jonas would be so crushed after growing to trust her, having a child with her and then being fucked over yet again. It would go just in line with his gullible personality and previous arc, tho. That poor man just wants to believe in love so, so bad.

The foundation of Martha's pain over Jonas would also be better I think, if she spent more than like two days with him and had the emotional connection of them having a child together.

Which, which, imagine Stranger Jonas having this child and then finding out he's the origin and having. To. Kill. Him. While I claimed earlier that Stranger Jonas (and by extension, Adam) was always the father of the unknown regardless, it would definitely be the ultimate act of violence upon himself to murder his own child in that sense. He murdered surrounding people, he murdered the love of his life, he murdered his mother, and by the end of it, he would murder his own son. That's some next level messed up shit. There would be a completely different and more severe tone if Adam was personally involved in who the unknown was and came to be, and the audience would've been on this journey too.

The issue here is that the unknown would probably have been born at this point, unless we keep the relationship with Stranger Jonas fairly brief and Martha is still pregnant. Would they be aware of it, tho? They could be. You'd miss out on some of the (amazing) drama I just described, tho. Or Adam tries to actually murder the unknown as a child, which is...phew. There are some things that don't check out at this point, tho. The unknown cannot die, so either Adam would have to fail in killing him or Martha has to be split, but she'd have to be split after she becomes pregnant, which messes with the timeline a bunch. Unless...since Adam only would care about erasing the unknown's existence Martha might be able to escape and goes back to be split during the apocalypse. But that doesn't work bc then she would have to still be pregnant and Adam wouldn't focus on the child. Maybe simply the Martha that has the unknown with Stranger Jonas is indeed killed (or her and the unknown) and the other Martha keeps going to become Eva and has the unknown with younger Jonas? No wait that doesn't work either. As soon as we need to split Martha for her and the unknown to survive we run into timeline complications that I think I would have to sit down and think about pretty hard to come up with a solution to. We can always have Adam failing in killing the unknown, but still have the drama of the whole situation (including Martha having to leave her own son to be murdered at the hands of his dad), but it's not as satisfying as Adam succeeding, but it still not working towards his ultimate goal and now he's just killed his own child for nothing.

If we somehow get past this plothole the unknown can still go back to Eva to be raised to become who he is, get with Agnes and so on.

I hope this made any kind of sense and I hope you're not dead by now, lol. Thoughts? What was your idea?

[beettel]

season 3 in a nutshell

[04hyyh]

he wanted to travel back to a world in which his family was still alive but instead, his own world was split, and we were created

[hyper-fixated-princess]

I just fucking realized the man who Noah kills outside the cave is Bartosz...

Noah killed his own father

[zhylik]

me after watching season 2 and learning about this whole noah × elizabeth thing: – um... this relationship is kinda weird so no thank you.

me after watching season 3: – um... so they are my children now and i will literally kill for them to be happy.

[caffe-in-e]

DARK Family tree... but It's only Noah

DARK SEASON 3 SPOILERS !!

So...

•Bartosz is Noah's father...

•Silja is Noah's mother...

•Agnes is Noah's sister...

•JONAS IS NOAH'S UNCLE...

•Claudia is Noah's aunt...

•Hannah is Noah's grandmother...

•Egon is Noah's granfather...

•Regina is Noah's grandmother...

•Aleksander is Noah's grandfather...

•Elisabeth is Noah's wife...

•But she is also Noah's grandaughter...

•Charlotte is Noah's daughter...

•But she is also Noah's mother in law...

•Peter is Noah's son in law...

•But he's also Noah's father in law...

•Franziska is Noah's sister in law...

•But she is also Noah's grandaughter...

(Meaning that Noah killed his father, his aunt and was killed by his sister who followed orders from his uncle...)