#depictions

[remember-my-name]

Touring Our Broken Home

[armageddonunknown]

oc-ifying my plushies take 2

[alatismeni-theitsa]

i saw some of your posts about people drawing greek characters much darker-skinned than greek people actually look (without being mixed race/another ethnicity). it reminded me of a post i saw a while ago where someone drew an inuit character with darker skin than she had in canon, and some people got upset and said inuit people didn't look like that, and the artist had made her look black or something instead of inuit.

i think a lot of white/western people have a really naive idea about diversity representation, where they just think "more melanin = better rep/more diverse". like i've seen people draw italian and japanese characters with skin as dark as south asians, while not intending for them to be mixed-race or anything. in fact it happens with japanese characters a ton, it's rare to see a fan-artist who hasn't made at least some members of a japanese cast dark brown.

i think this approach is bad and reduces diversity, bc instead of the characters accurately representing a particular race/ethnicity, they just look ambiguously brown, and the group they're from won't be able to see themselves in them. it's better to represent different races/ethnicities accurately than give them way darker skin without explanation, just because white western views of race says the darker your skin, the more "racial" you are. in my opinion it's fine if they have a corresponding headcanon, like "i wanted to make the character half-indian", bc then they can incorporate other ethnic features into their design, and include their culture and ethnic experiences in their characterisation. but just making them ambiguously brown means they don't add that realism that would actually represent the experiences of another race. it means the groups that do have dark brown skin don't get portrayals of their culture, despite the characters looking like them. just looking similar doesn't mean they'll be relatable to them.

i also had a theory that people make olive-skinned/tan characters so much darker bc it's hard to perfectly colour-match with official designs, and if they accidentally made them a bit lighter they'd get harassed and called racist, so it's easier to overshoot bc u won't be harassed for making them darker than canon. and/or it's some kind of raceblindness effect where white people remember olive-skinned/tan characters as being darker than they actually are, bc they take a lot of note of their skintone not looking white. like i've seen some MENA people complain that when white people say "jesus wouldn't look pale, he would look dark brown with a hooked nose and black hair", it feels like they're falling into stereotypes since MENA people can have light skin, hair, and eye colours

sorry this is a bit rambly but yeah. when it comes to greek mythos/ancient history characters, seeing them get changed to all different races (not just the ones that would be in the region back then), it kind of feels like "greek people aren't good enough to represent accurately, we have to add the groups we think deserve rep more"

You brought up many good points here. I also have noticed that people are more concerned of what people outside of the represented culture will say, rather than worry about the people from the culture they aim to represent. This contributes in strengthening stereotypes that further alienate the represented culture.

Like me, I am sure you advocate for proper representation when a character or real person is dark. Dark-skinned people around the world should be represented as they are, without attempts to make them appear lighter for some stupid beauty standards. And many native Greeks are dark skinned but, as happens with every group on earth, within certain ranges. Also, on the other side of the spectrum it's inaccurate to depict many Greeks and Greek figures as Nordic blonds with blue eyes. (Because it happens but it's extremely rare) Facts are facts, they don't discriminate. But we will now focus on the performative side of representation. With that disclaimer out of the way, I will speak for Greek representation, but I know that our Western Asian and North African neighbors often have the same complaints as the Greeks - as you showed in your example of Jesus' depiction.

The way the Northerners often draw us and our gods says to me "we live on almost the same distance from the equator and you can be a few tones darker than me but in my mind you are so different that you might as well be a South Indian or a Sub-Saharan African". How is this good, again?? It's like they admit they can comprehend only a narrow set of very light skintones, and the rest is just "dark brown" to them. They have no idea that someone with an olive skin tone can look like a pale corpse (hii!). Even with the progressive coat on, these depictions are still related to societies who prioritize White (WASP) Comfort.

Those artists will not listen even to dark-skinned Greeks who tell them, "dude, you didn't represent us properly, this palette belongs to another continent entirely" and they try to dictate to us that we don't know how the people of our own country look like. That's another level of offensive, and it shows that they don't care about representation but only about satisfying the online racial narrative that wants Greeks to be "very dark with curly hair and long noses" - the same way they drew us as caricatures back in the '40s.

I also have said in the past, light skin is not a canvas and it's not the default. You treat it as a default when you feel comfortable changing it to other skin tones, and supports racists ideas. It's better to pressure the game devs/television network/etc to give space to darker characters than change a person's / character's inherent characteristics. It's offensive to that person, first of all.

And, as you said, the dark skin is a signifier for them that someone is "racial" / non-WASP, basically. A Greek realizes that pretty soon. Let's not forget that people with whom we share a border (like the Turks) can be PoC in North consciences but we Greeks are Privileged Whites. Other times we are "Brown", other times we are "The guardians of Europe who defend the continent against the Middle Eastern invadors" 🤦‍♀️🤌🤌It's never about depicting people as they are, but as they ought to be, based on Northern standards, and political opinions. I will never forget a US-American Tumblr blog who advises - mainly White Northerners - in representation matters insisting that Greeks are White, and a few months later presenting ancient South Greeks (and North Greeks of Asia Minor, if I remember correctly?) as People of Color. The jokes write themselves.

I agree with you that such depictions rob people of other cultures from proper representation. People adhering to that Whiteness want to see dark brown skin to feel good in the recent political climate, but they don't want to "deal with" actual people who have this skin! They don't want to "deal with" another culture, another perspective, and the valid grievances of those people.

You think they want to deal with Greeks and our culture? Hah! 🤣 They don't give two shits! On the contrary, our voices have always been an annoyance to their aesthetic. A character's clothing and hair will be wildly inaccurate and just because they made the character extra dark they think their "duty" is done. They only want to say "see! I am not racist! I drew this character with overly dark skin!"

Are we supposed to be thankful when they are only using us in a performance - they even paint us darker as part of it! - so they can feel better about themselves...?

[priafey]

thank you for your patience @hircines-hunter!! here's your secret santa gift, featuring sifkni and farkas

[passengerpigeons]

I played saxophone in Wisconsin

[meet-the-journalist]

[OOC]

You know the rp is good when it has you making fanart at light speed (please forgive the anatomy and how tiny Messenger is, i had to get this out of my system as soon as possible

@meet-the-messenger

[telegraphavekiss]

The face of Taurus, and the Pleiades. 🌌