#dolentsnows

[bookwyrminspiration]

ignore that im supposed to be away for a while, but! im still an avid supporter of the "fintan is sophie's dad" theory, and i maybe just thunk a thought

while some people take mr forkle's "i ensured you wouldnt manifest as a pyrokinetic" (not the exact words but i believe same message) line as a mark against the theory, in the way that if forkle didnt want her to manifest as a pyrokinetic why would he make a pyrokinetic sophie's father, it could also work in the opposite way? if sophie's parents didnt consist of at least one pyrokinetic, why would forkle mention that he made absolutely sure sophie wouldnt manifest pyrokinesis? does that make sense?

could be totally wrong, because i forgot some of the context and i am also. very sick and dealing with school stuff rn but. fintan = sophie's dad good. (using this to make a "sophie has fluffy" hair hc just like i did with fintan. she straightens it so it doesnt look like his or oralie's.)

love, matt (/p)

matt! welcome back! Because of your influence I am now also avidly interested in the "fintan is Sophie's dad theory" so please do go on (I say, answering an ask that has a finite amount of information from weeks ago as though you can actually promptly respond to what I am saying)

as far as I can remember, that's how the scene went! And you do make sense. I do think it's an interesting line as far as the context goes, like...truly why does he need to try so hard to make sure she's not going to manifest as a pyrokinetic. The simplest way to make sure she wouldn't become a pyrokinetic would be to not have her father be a pyrokinetic, as far as we know. That's the logic that argument is based on. Abilities can be genetic, and while occasionally they pop up in other places (like Marella), that seems rare.

I have a suggestion, actually: in order to ensure she wouldn't become a pyrokinetic, he specifically chose her father to be a pyrokinetic so that he'd know for certain the potential for pyrokinesis was in her genes and could inhibit it. Instead of trying to avoid it, he confronts the ability's potential head on so that she can never manifest it and there's no room for error or miscalculation.

I think the main objection there is to this ability is that Sophie's whole character and purpose has been built around her telepathy. Her mind is the strongest thing about her and all her other abilities have been secondary to it, so if neither of her parents were telepaths...where did it come from? For that reason, I personally believe that as interesting as it is for Fintan to be her father, the fact he's not a telepath is a drawback to the theory. Then again, she does have inflicting as a pretty powerful asset and neither of her parents are inflictors, her DNA instead just modeled off inflictor DNA (same with the teleporting). So that being said, perhaps her telepathy is simply based off some powerful telepath DNA. it's a possibility, but I don't know if the logic will hold as soundly for an ability that is so incredibly central to her character.

also I hope you are doing better now! Being sick isn't very fun especially when there's school things on top of it. I am sending you vibes. I haven't decided which kind but there sure are vibes coming your way rn !!

oo Sophie with fluffy hair is fun! It's no secret that I like messing around with the character's hair when I draw them and give basically everyone curly hair, so I fully support the changing of Sophie's hair--and the angst behind it!!

also love you too !!

[bookwyrminspiration]

would you like to be reminded of the observation you made about sophie while writing that post?

- ed

oo yes thank you for this! As predicted, it slipped my mind, but! now I can talk about the Sophie observation I made during my reread of the entire series--which isn't complete yet, I'm almost done with Flashback, so most of my reasoning is going to come from events sans books 8 and 8.5. Though there may be lines in those books that also contribute to this observation, probably not though

to preface this, I want to first refresh on the fandom's view of Sophie and how we see her. What words do we often associate with her? Overpowered, moonlark, clumsy, arsonist, etc. But! There is a very specific word we've (and I'm including myself in this) used to describe her for a very long time: oblivious. And that...just isn't true. Sophie is in fact incredibly observant in all areas, and that includes things about the love triangle (formerly a square). She knows! She knows all about it and what everyone's implied meanings are, what people have crushes about her, etc. She has been fully aware this entire time! It's not that she's oblivious, it's that she's uncomfortable and doesn't value herself enough to pay attention to it, a completely different thing.

I'm going to pull a few different passages from the series to show what I mean

Nightfall, page 137-138:

"Or maybe you'd rather I put my incredible Empath talents to work and help you solve the complicated square you're always telling yourself is a triangle?"

She shook her head, refusing to admit she knew what he meant.

Nightfall, page 262:

"How long have you known I liked you?" he asked without looking at her.

"Honestly? I'm not sure."

She'd spent so long pretending not to notice, it was hard to pin it down. But it might have also been part of the reason they'd been spending a little less time together--and why they mostly hung out in bigger groups.

Flashback, page 660:

And Sophie realized then...

Those really had been moments.

She hadn't been misreading the situation.

She'd just been too scared to believe it.

___________

I could probably find a few more spots to support my claims but these are the instances that stand out the most in my mind, hence why I'm quoting them. But do you get what I mean?

I mean, Della flat out says in Neverseen that "Alden warned me that you're very perceptive" (80). And somehow despite this and how astute she's been we've kinda labelled her as oblivious so quickly when that really doesn't match with a lot of what we know about her. She tries to consider things from every angle, and that includes wondering if people think romantically about her! She's aware that it's a possible way to interpret their actions, she just tries to avoid that and justify it some other while while knowing what it could mean.

It's possible that Ro calling her oblivious--a character who doesn't know her very well and has only been in 3.5 books compared to the entire 8.5 series we've known Sophie--helped solidify that in people's minds but I don't think Ro's observation is that trustworthy. We can also look at Keefe's short story after Nightfall where they say that Sophie has no idea what she's feeling and he has that "Yeah. I'm an Empath" line that I paraphrased when Ro is teasing him about it. I think that's intending to mean that Sophie is more unaware of her own feelings, trying to suppress them because she doesn't want to deal with that and finds it uncomfortable. But when it comes to the way everyone else acts around her, she knows! She knows!! She blushes and gets flustered and embarrassed for a reason and it's because she's aware of what it means but doesn't want to address it.

So that's the observation I was referring to when I made that post! I've gotten so used to calling Sophie oblivious or unaware because it's one of the main words she's labelled as, that as I was rereading the series it was like??? Okay how did we get there she's very aware of everything? She spent her entire childhood reading people's thoughts and learning how people work (passively), so when that was stripped away she started relying really heavily on observation, and she's good at it! She knows how people work and can use that to deduce things about people without being in their heads!

[bookwyrminspiration]

i realized i havent sent you an ask in a while and that is unacceptable so due to my own confusion please consider:

arospec and/or aspec fintan (and bronte)

also transmasc butch lesbian sophie

- pyro

well I haven't properly answered asks in a while either so...we're even? I have no excuses my brain just stopped working but! Maybe it will decide to work more soon!!

as an aroace person: yes. Absolutely. 100%. It's simply in our nature to start rebellions and commit crimes in a dramatic way that greatly inconveniences the people trying to stop us while also accomplishing nothing. Perhaps they're also mentally ill.

I'm curious now if there's anything in canon that we could take to help solidify this argument. Not that we have a case to prove or anything but just that I like to find things in canon to give credence or more believability to any headcanon

If Fintan is aro/aspec, then I'm thinking he's more on the repulsed side as opposed to neutral/favorable. Same with Bronte. There have been absolutely no love interests or even mentions of a romantic life (aside from the blanket can't date as a councilor, but that's not specific to Bronte), which differs from basically every other character that has the same baseline amount of importance. It seems like once a character is important enough to the story, their love life is mentioned (specifically a romantic partner or lack thereof) because it's seen as a glimpse into their life, a way to get to know them. It makes them more human (not in terms of species, but in terms of depth). Kenric and Oralie have their romance, there's the love amalgamation of the entire kotlcrew that Tam and Linh got drawn into once they became important to the story (Linh first and then Tam, I think it was). Bo and Ro have their complicated arranged marriage, Grizel and Sandor are together, etc.

The only other important character I can think of who doesn't have a love interest yet is Calla, but that can be considered an outlier because she died in the same book we met her in. Maybe Flori, but I don't think she's important enough to be given a love interest yet. Oo: Elwin. Elwin is another one who is important but doesn't have a love interest.

i'm getting distracted so back to my point: Bronte and Fintan have both passed the threshold of importance and should reasonably have love interests by now. And if not an interest, than a mention of some past of love or lack of love. Nearly everyone else does, and yet there is no mention. So perhaps this is something we could take to mean that they're averse, falling on the repulsed side of aro/aspec identities.

I think the canon explanation is that they are ancients and as such are too old to have love interests, but that does conflict with the eternal youth kinda thing they have going on. However!! Fintan and Bronte instead being aroace or some combination of those things are a more satisfying representation to me and I'm choosing to belief that's the reason instead.

as for Sophie: yes. please and thank you, Shannon. I think Sophie should get to be queer as a treat. She's nearly died so many times, so now she should get to kiss girls. She should be held and comforted and cared for and so gay. This reminds me I have a few queer books on my bookshelf that I grabbed at the bookstore that I still haven't read, one specifically I got because it said it was queer and there was a pretty girl with dragon wings on the cover so I was...intrigued. idk what it's about but I should read it I guess!!

you know I think all literature is better when there are queer people. we enrich the environment and it's so comforting and pure ecstasy to see a character just like you <33

[bookwyrminspiration]

all this catboy talk just has me genuinely considering an au where all elves have animal characteristics. not just limited to cats, but all other kinds of animals as well.

i doubt they'd get huge differences (like, someone with bird traits wouldn't get wings) but maybe a few details here and there, like ears or scent or whatever.

maybe boobrie dude has a bunch of feathers on him. or maybe some elves would have claws, whatever those end up looking like.

there's much potential for body horror and yet i cant help but think of rule of cool and mostly fluffy scenarios (੭ु ´͈꒳​`͈)੭ु⁾⁾

- pyro

honestly that kind of seems like where the direction of these asks are going! starting with catboys, going into murcatboys, just expanding the world into animalistic traits. This reminds me of a thing, actually! Sometimes when I'm writing i just let my mind wander to come up with any ideas possible and pick and choose from the ones that fit best, but sometimes that means I have to exclude things that would otherwise be really cool--one of the recent ones was elves as shapeshifters, or of them having a designated animal form that they shift into. So your comment about different animal characteristics reminded me of that!

They don't need to have huge obvious animal traits, but just the little things that set them apart as other from the people around them. Some could be visible--like the cat ears--or they could be invisible--a heightened sense of smell or hearing, kinda like what you said!

this could take a turn into body horror, but that depends on what your definition of horror is and if you find the manipulation and distortion of the human form as comforting or uncomfortable. I personally think body horror in the form of being non-human and instead an animal/monster is fun! The less human the better! But in order to have more of an impact on the viewer a semblance of its original form is necessary.

I jokingly mentioned a catboy disease in that post about Grady, but we could make that more of a reality to lean into the body horror! Instead of being a fun pastime or whatever we should call it, it's something uncontrollable that distorts the elves bodies and turns them into less than human (hmm. this is like the wings au but more intense!)

but! I think a lot of us like animals, so associating characters we like with animals we like it like a double fun thing! a positive melded with a positive creates and extra positive! And that makes cute scenarios appealing, and fluff is always fun. Catboy cuddles and animal traits are fun!!

I've essentially done part of this au/idea already but focused on flying animals (obviously. it is a wings au), so i'd be curious what animals people would be assigned were a wider assortment available for selection! There are the Team Valiant animal assignments, but we don't necessarily have to stick with them.

it feels like this is almost elevating the elves to a more fae level, like more mystic and unknowable, and I love it!!

[bookwyrminspiration]

wait so im pretty sure ive already told you at least part of the bronte backstory and i realized we're sharing songs now so i would just like to say. you want it darker is. rather fitting for a LOT of bronte's connection and relationship with fallon.

and also if i have. not. explained the bronte backstory to you i am so sorry and this must be. confusing.

- pyro

(sending with my main for the link, but if it's alright, could you still tag as pyrokinetic-loser? thank you either way!!!)

pyro!! welcome back!!

I will be honest if you have told me the Bronte backstory I think I've forgotten most of it. But I do remember some of the things you've told me in relation to that fic you posted a while ago (the one I left the comment on), so if that's what we're referring to, than I do remember that! I know you've told me the Fintan backstory, so if I get a few of the details confused then oopsie

"If thine is the glory then / Mine must be the shame" reminds me a little of what you were talking about where Fallon was almost revered and essentially in charge of everything, and the shame reminds me of his "curse" (though I think I focused on that word a lot more than you meant for anyone to). Also perhaps touching on the embarrassment of his earlier failure and the punishment he must now endure or the guilt of what he's now doing?

"I didn't know I had permission / To murder and to maim." Okay hear me out. I don't know if this makes sense but! this could be like his view of the people he's killing. Some question akin to "who are we to decide who lives and dies" or whatever that quote is. Because he's going around doing such awful things, maybe he's examining how being given murder as a mission dehumanizes the victims and minimizes the gravity of the things he's doing. As a life is something that can be given permission to be taken, it could be like a sort of dry/dark humor to even use the word. I don't really know where I was going with this but it's an interesting line!

and then there's also the whole vibe of the song. It's so slow paced and I can't figure out how to describe it, but it seems to fit Bronte. It's like this living emptiness, the way you feel when it's like you're just existing every day and mulling over everything that's ever happened and will be. And the low, rumbly voice is just ah!! so good. I love it. It's more talking and half-singing than a full out song, which conveys this feeling of exhaustion and secrecy, so definitely feels like something you would do to Bronte!

I don't think I know much more about the Bronte backstory, but if I am remembering correctly, then that's really cool!! Excellent song choice for it! If I'm completely off and mixing this up with something up, then this was still a lovely thought experiment!

[bookwyrminspiration]

too late to say goodbye is a jolie and brant song, especially from a jolie point of view.

all the fire imagery as well as that "this is ending in tragedy and yet i can't bear to let go of your hand" energy... it just fits, i think

(and it's making me think of jolie and brant, but in a bonnie and clyde scenario)

- ed

ed you are brilliant!! You are so right it fits them so well this is incredible. So much fire imagery of course, but also all the meaning and regret behind it!! perfection

I mean the song starts off with "Oh, my precious ember burning, my sweet glowing light / From the moment I first saw you I was yours and you were mine," which encapsulates their childhood together and how close the two of them were, how fated they seemed to be. Edaline said that they hit it off right away, that they shared that gremlin (I think that was the creature) and from that point on they were inseparable. From the very first moment it was the two of them. And then later on but still in that early stage, Brant used all of that fire imagery in his letters to Jolie, calling her "the wonder of the every burning" skies in a similar way to the beginning of the song. It's like the calm before the storm, or the fire in their case.

But then there's "Now I'm under your spell, trapped in a lie / Shouldn't have stood that close to the fire" to fit the mindset of when Jolie found out about Brant's involvement in the Neverseen. The slow decline until it's too late. She loves him, and yet she didn't really know the most crucial part of him. The thing that characterizes him and makes him him, trapped between this idea she had of him and that she loved and this new person she's convincing herself she can reason with. She's committed everything to this relationship, lost friends over it, ruined her social life for that love. And part of it was a lie. Not all of it, but a very important and defining thing. He's a pyrokinetic, and he's a rebel on the wrong side. He has fundamentally different morals, but she's just as committed as ever. She trusted everything to him, and she died for it. It would've been wiser to stay away, to distance herself, to reason through it. But she loved him and it killed her.

another line I want to mention! "Just the two of us forever, no one else around." I think it captures their relationship at all stages, how it was the two of them as kids, then the two of them as partners, and then the two of them as this ill fated connection between opposing sides of a battle no one can win, but one side can lose. The person they've always had no matter what was the other. Even Edaline and Grady had their reservations about the marriage (though they did eventually consent), and in that time it was Jolie and Brant. The two of them against the world, intensely committed to each other despite what everyone else said. Everyone else came and went, but they were each other's rock. There was no one else emotionally, but when Jolie was killed they were also physically alone together. No one saw what happened, no one but the two of them as their world burned to ash and Brant was left alone. It was supposed to be the two of them against the world, but he killed her.

Ed you are so right this song fits them so well!! It's not a soft love, it's despairing and destructive and inescapable, and it consumed them both until nothing was left. Jolie was physically gone, and Brant mentally was fixated on her and couldn't move past it. excellent suggestion!!

[bookwyrminspiration]

actually wait i lied about being too tired to have thoughts. if an au ever happens with elves having animal traits i vote that bronte gets a docile animal that no one is ever scared of really because i think itd be neat. fintan gets to be a fox or something idk.

- pyro

I tried to think of a docile animal for Bronte and my first thought was "cheep" which...isn't an animal. And the second one was a chupacabra, which is definitely not docile.

I could definitely vibe with a kotlc au where people have animal traits (I'm kinda doing that in the wings au already!) and would be curious what animals people would be! Knowing me, it's unsurprising that i'd want to take a turn into people having monster traits instead of just animals, but I can also tone that back to focus on just fun, cutesy animals or whatever it is this kind of au would entail.

I think there should be a scale of how animal a person is alongside what animal they are. Like they have a set animal, and they how prevalent that is is also a factor. Maybe two people are both wolves, but one person is more wolf than them with more traits and tendencies and a more wild side to them. That would make for an interesting dynamic, as thhe hierarchy of the intersectionality of prevalence vs inherent place on the food chain...hmm.

Proposal: animal type is most deciding factor, percentage then dignified your social standing within that group. For example, a cat would also be higher than a mouse, even if the cat was like 10% cat compared to a 50% mouse person. This makes sense in my head but I don't know how well I'm explaining it.

but now back to Bronte...bunny. Small and grumpy and lashes out. A rabbit. Rabbits can be very mean at times and absolute nightmares to deal with. Some aren't! My rabbit happened to be out in the wild for an unknown amount of time as a baby before we adopted her so she's a little chaotic and hates people, but I love her. If we're comparing her to my rabbit, though, this implies that Bronte was just left in the wild for a while as a child and now he's averse to people. He's just a grumpy little bunny man. His simply a little angry and takes it out by grunting at people.

Because people aren't really scared of bunnies and see them as quiet and docile and underestimate the work they take, but once you get closer they angry and wanna fight you. I think that's an excellent descriptor for Bronte, at least in fanon. Little grumpy man who lashes out when people get close.

Though if Fintan was a fox like you said, that could provide an interesting dynamic considering how infamously foxes and rabbits get along (or we could go the Zootopia route and Nick Wilde-ify him, him being Fintan). Lot of angst potential there, which seems right up your alley, Pyro!

if we're labelling this in terms of catboys the way we have been so far, they'd be a bunnycatboy and a foxcatboy, which is both cursed and beautiful. I love them. I'm occupied with the wings au atm, but if someone writes an au where everyone is animalistic...please put me on the taglist /srs

[bookwyrminspiration]

Pelicans We is a Vacker song and I will take no criticism on this.

- Ed

Gotta say this is not the kind of song I was expecting, but I think you're very right and I will not criticize the connection you've made between the two.

I mean right off the bat we're hit with "King and Queen of the Pelicans we / No other Birds so grand we see," and while the Vackers are not pelicans, they are like the closest thing to royalty in the elven world. Fitz's name literally means "son of the king," because that's the kind of reputation they have! The Vackers are on top of the world, the best of the best, no one else can top them. They are the most notorious family in their world, and people know it! They know it! No one else has a legacy that comes even close to the Vacker legacy, the history and prestige of their family name. No other family is as grand as the Vacker family.

Another line that stands out is "We think no birds so happy as we," which seems more akin to their family earlier in the series (you know, before Alvar and the troll hive and everything). Because their family had everything. Who could be better off? Who could be happier? No one has more than their family, so it was almost laughable to think someone else had it better. They were on top of the world, with a sense of security that no one else had. I mean, Fitz and Biana even talked down about some of their classmates (e.g. Dex and Stina) because they saw themselves so differently, and in a way as better. Dex and Stina were a class below them, despite being so similar. They thought of no one else as like them.

This kind of ties into this line: "None but we have feet like fins," as the line distinguishes pelicans from other birds by giving them something completely unique, same as how the Vacker legacy gives the Vackers something completely unique and separates them from all their fins. It's something no one else can get, something enviable. And it gives them a sense of importance and puts them above everyone else.

Finally, there's "We think so then, and we thought so still" which is interesting in the way that it's only slightly accurate. It's like...accurate but in a changed way. Because in the past the Vackers thought that they had this huge legacy to live up to and a history that sets them apart, and there is!! It's just not what they thought it was because their legacy is actually turning out to be a lot ickier than anticipated. They still have that unique name and recognition, and they recognize that, even as dark as it's become.

An interesting song choice, Ed! I agree that it definitely seems to encapsulate the entire vibe of the Vacker family, the expectations made of them and the way they fit into the elven society as a whole. Great suggestion!