Two years ago, I retired from ranting about English dubs and over a year ago, I unpublished the English Dubbed Game News page (formerly known as English dubs in Japanese games or no buy, aka #NoDubNoBuy) with that same intention of retirement. Though I have since moved on to other ventures, I have recently discovered that the admins of the Undub page (full name I don't buy Japanese games if the audio is only in English) have decided to call it quits. This is my reaction to their announcement.
I really must scoff at them saying that they are “no longer needed in this world”, because aside from EDGN, they were the only page that bothered to collect data on what languages the games are voiced and subtitled in. Maybe some game companies weren’t directly transparent with providing this information ten years ago (which is when they claim they started even though their Spanish and English pages were created in 2012 and 2013 respectively) compared to now, but they bridged the gap when others never thought of it. There is a wiki that lists games that have Japanese voices or dual audio options, but they only list dub-only games on one page instead of on the individual console pages. While I understand that the admins of that page probably have their reasons for quitting their page just as I did, there will still be games that will be released with only English or Japanese voices and without people like us, information wouldn’t have been as easy to find.
For a few years now, the Undub page hasn’t been posting as frequently as they used to because they have been focusing on Own Your Game, a blog where they post about what games are released physically, with voice and text language information included. It’s like the admins of the Undub page started giving up after they discovered how toxic I was on EDGN and my rants. (Own Your Game is still active, so feel free to check out their blog and give them a follow on Twitter.)
In their announcement, they list some IPs that have adopted dual audio over the years, such as Final Fantasy, Nier, Bayonetta, Persona and Kingdom Hearts. They also claim that while there are some games that still only have English dubbing, dual audio is becoming the industry standard. No, you fucking Europoor cucks, that is not it. As a (former) fan of Koei Tecmo’s Warriors games, I know that Japanese game companies will happily forego dubbing a game during localisation if their budget won’t allow it and you along with the NPC sub fans and dub haters would celebrate like you “owned the dub plebs” (we did it, Reddit). I can even name a few more IPs that have gone on this path, such as Atelier, BlazBlue and numerous animes (particularly ones that have received a dub) that have received game adaptations. It’s all in the EDGN post archive (which is still up, by the way). But hey, you’re fans of the original Japanese voices, how was I to know that you only support dual audio in games when it’s the Japanese voices that are missing? So really, at this point, the industry standard is either dual audio or Japanese voices only (if such a standard existed in the first place).
Yes, I know it costs money to dub a game. Yes, I know it costs money to hire voice actors to dub a game. I don’t care if the game has 50 characters or 100, that’s not even an excuse even if it links back to money because it still makes them look lazy. I don’t care if I’ve sounded entitled or snooty, as long as there is a fanbase for dubs, then there is a market for dubs. If the Japanese could do it, why can’t the West do it? (inb4 union bullshit) Oh whatever, I’m too over this bullshit anyway.
Remember when your smoothbrain fans discovered EDGN and called us SJWs, even though looking back it’s more of a right-wing thing even though politics shouldn’t fucking matter in the dub-sub debate? Remember when you admins discovered our page and then decided to not only accuse us of copying your page’s format (even though you should have seen this coming), but also assuming that Admin A (the creator of the page) and I wanted games with English dub only even though we have no problem with Japanese voices, then blaming yourselves for allowing the birth of that “monster” that was EDGN and blocking me from your page? Remember when you unblocked me, claimed that we were fighting when we barely did in the first place and showed me your new project to which I invited you to share my rebranded page to your fans, but then you never did even though I went to the trouble of giving your new project some promotion on one of my posts?
Okay, maybe that last one was a bit personal, but my point is that you claimed that you’ve changed when you barely even did. This is typical of you sub fans - you claim that you’re cool with dual audio but you never have any empathy for dub fans because their preferences don’t align with yours. You never even criticised your own fanbase (enough) for the hate they sent us, which makes you just as complicit in enabling them to do so. You were the inspiration for EDGN and yet, this is how you treat us. This is why I think sub fans like you are the reason why some games (or their sequels) don’t get dubbed.
On a lighter note, even though we agree that dual audio options are good, it’s funny how the Undub page barely made an effort to rebrand themselves to be unbiased in voice preferences. To be fair, I once had plans to rebrand EDGN into Dual Audio Game News and show the voice/text languages under the game covers in the image instead of putting a prohibition symbol on the covers meaning that the game was rejected by our verdict, but I gave up on them when I decided to retire from the page. I wonder if we would have reached more people (and gotten less hate) if we just decided to post about the voice/text language options of games without bias in our names or intent, but I guess we’ll never know.
I know that this fight for dual audio may have been easy for you, being Japanese voice fans, because the original voice track is readily available, but this fight wasn’t easy for us, being English dub fans, because time, effort and money on the part of the gaming companies aside, you people have barely done anything to stand with us when we know that game companies won’t listen to anything we say or the complaints we make.
So in short, I respect the work you admins have done for the Undub page and I wish you all the best, but fuck you and your fans for your attitude towards us at EDGN and all the other English dub fans out there, because in the end, despite your altruistic intentions, you are just a bunch of selfish Europoor cucks, sub fans and dub haters. I came to you with an olive branch and all I got was insults and derision.
I leave you all with this video of Friendlyjordies dunking on an Australian politician of European descent for all the European dunks I’ve made in this post (and possibly once or twice in the past).
Oh, and for posture, here’s a screenshot of their farewell post in case they decide to delete their page:
Dub Logistics Part 24: The Versatility of Voice Actors (with extra: Haters Can’t Face Facts)
“If Japanese seiyuus can voice their character in a sequel or an adaptation of a particular work, then why can’t Western voice actors receive the same treatment?”
Admit it, you’ve experienced this situation at some point - your favourite anime or game has been dubbed, then there’s an announcement that there will be a game or anime adaptation of said work coming out soon. The adaptation gets licenced or localised, but you find that either the game isn’t dubbed or the dub voice actors in the anime adaptation are different to those in the original game, yet in the original Japanese dub, you find that the seiyuu have reprised their own characters for that adaptation. Lack of English dubbing in localised games aside, there are various reasons why voice actors for some characters can change - reasons such as actor availability, budget reasons or contractual reasons.
One reason for maintaining a fixed cast list for a work and any subsequent adaptations is because of the voice actors’ familiarity to their characters. Is it better to have the same voice cast in each sequel or adaptation, where they will have had sufficient experience voicing their respective characters, or to have a new cast each time, where chances are that they haven’t heard about that particular work or even if they have, are trying to imitate the previous voice actors for their characters?
Of course, there are understandable reasons why voice actors need to be replaced, but production companies and/or the voice actors themselves need to make them as transparent as possible to the fans so they can understand as well. If it’s because the previous voice actor passed away or is very ill, then the announcement that comes from it should be news enough for anyone.
I’ve touched on this way back in Part 51 of the Koei Warriors Rant Series. This also touches on and expands on points I’ve made in some of the first instalments of Dub Logistics, mostly regarding sequels, collaborations and adaptations. The underlying principle I am trying to get across regarding casting is consistency (where possible). That’s all it is.
Now, I could have published this post up to this point and go back to my roots (as it were) for this series, but I saw this tweet recently and realised that I could apply a similar logic to it for the dub-sub debate (I was going to make this a separate post, but I guess I needed some filler since the first bit of this instalment was short):
“If a dub hater or opinion-neutral says they want you to back up something you said with facts, they're lying. They want you to waste your time on an explanation they will neither consider nor accept. If they liked facts, they wouldn't be dub haters or opinion-neutrals.”
The original and satirical tweet regarding Trump supporters was written by John Hartzell of Middle Age Riot, though after reading some comments in the Twitter replies, the repost on his Facebook page and the submission on the r/PoliticalHumor subreddit along with some more tweets from him, I started realising that there might be some truth to his satire (then again, when isn’t satire based on news and current affairs, particularly with regard to politics?).
With this in mind, I think the above statement does highlight a common factor I’ve (honestly) missed during my dealings with some of my haters and naysayers; these guys are much more likely to flex over my dead body saying that their opinions were right than ever admitting that they were wrong in the first place.
I run on a belief of compassion; as long as you are able to sympathise with others who are not in the same situation as you, you can give them support when they need it. I believe that localised games and licenced animes should be released with dual audio options (where possible and if not, with an apologetic explanation) so that dub fans and sub fans can coexist peacefully in the fanbase. However, the comments I see from the uncompassionate (including dub haters and opinion-neutrals) are making it hard for this dream to ever come true.
If you’re not indoctrinated enough in your dub hate, then there is still some wiggle room for you to turn back and at least learn to accept fans whose preferences are different to yours. The same can be said for other dub haters, but I doubt whether they have the heart in them to redeem themselves.
Remember, just because you think you are right doesn’t mean you automatically are. Understandably, the same could be said for me as well, so seeing it come from me, considering my past with these rants, would probably make me look like a hypocrite in denial and thus, make this point moot.
Until recently, I was so obsessed with proving my naysayers wrong, I had lost sight what the pre-rebranding English Dubbed Game News was meant to be. Does that mean my naysayers were right all along? No, of course not, because during that time, I had already proven that some of them were morally worse than what they made me out to be. Was it a waste of time? If you’re talking about arguing with dub haters, then maybe yes, but if you’re talking about me calling out the hypocrisy and logical fallacies of the opinion-neutrals, then no, it wasn’t a waste of time.
Once again, this is the usual reminder that Dub Logistics will be ending with Part 30 at the end of the year and if you have anything you want me to cover, feel free to send it to me.
Think about this: some of your favourite characters in cartoons, anime and Western games could be voiced by voice actors who have dubbed characters in localised Japanese games. If you say that you hate English dubs and voice actors, then do you hate the people who voiced the characters you love?
Let me just repeat that one more time: If you say that you hate English dubs and voice actors, then do you hate the people who voiced the characters you love?
Being part of the majority feels good to you, because you get to bash people who don’t agree with your views, or as we like to call it, the minority. But think about it; have you stopped to consider what the minority are feeling about those things? Is it worth bullying someone just because they want something that will never happen?
I’m talking, of course, about the Warriors Orochi 3 English dub petition. It was a long time ago, but there are still people signing it to this day, even if it was very little of the general population.
The petition was created by a GameFAQs user named MonarchPaulos. He created about 3 or 4 topics on the Warriors Orochi 3 board, which all got closed after people kept telling him that he will never get stickied because he wrote something insulting to Koei Tecmo on his petition or on his post.
First of all, I don’t blame MonarchPaulos for what he did. I blame the countless numbers of posters who kept telling him that he will never be able to have English dubs on their games. Seriously, you don’t work for Koei, so stop trying to defend them. This man has the right to complain about this, just as I have done over the past couple of years.
Secondly, just because something has already gone and passed doesn’t mean that it can’t happen again. It’s called DLC, and before you even mention it, there’s a thing called crowdfunding and Kickstarter.
I’ve probably mentioned numerous times that English dub fans are becoming the minority. But I should remind all the Japanese dub fans that before you discovered and converted to Japanese dub, you had to put up with all the terrible English dubs. But deep inside your heart, you might still have a speck of care for those people who prefer English dubs.
Believe me, I can see who has that speck of care and who does not.
There are groups fighting out there for Japanese voices and I seem to be the only person (with not many supporters) who is actively fighting for English voices on games. Keep in mind that I’m not trying to be a dub purist and fight for the abolishment of Japanese voices in localised games, but I’m fighting for a dual audio option to be available in EVERY localised Japanese game.
One of those particular groups is named “I don't buy Japanese games if the audio is only in English”. You could probably already guess by the name, but those guys advertise games with Japanese voices or dual audio and they boycott games with only English voices. I thought about starting a group like this to advertise games with English voices or dual audio, but you’d only think that I’m “entitled” or “ungrateful”.
Believe me, I’m not. Like I might have mentioned before, I don’t mind Japanese or English voices, I just don’t believe that localised Japanese games should be played without English voices. If people want to play in Japanese voices, they can, or they could try playing the entire game in Japanese.
Currently, I’m in the process of slowly gathering supporters who support English dub and/or dual audio in games. If you know someone who is being bullied by others just for preferring English dub (MonarchPaulos is a good example), get them reading the Koei Warriors Rant Series and get them to message me.
Likewise, if you see anyone who is blinded by their support of Japanese voices with no respect for the English voices, get them reading the Koei Warriors Rant Series as well.
Here’s the link you can give them.
I don’t want to flip the majority - it would be very difficult for me to do that. Rather, I want to find supporters who share the same views as me and understand the importance of dual audio.
Koei Warriors Rant Series Part 35: Are English dubs and voice actors being appreciated enough?
(NOTE: In this part, I mostly speak about Japanese game companies localising their games to the West, like Square Enix, Koei Tecmo, Nintendo or Bandai Namco.)
Just today, I became aware that the voice actors’ union SAG-AFTRA is taking a vote on whether to go on strike or not. According to the information I’ve seen (the official site is here), it seems that voice actors are not being treated fairly, with proposals from their employers to impose fines for actors arriving late on set or agents that don’t send actors out for background voices. Also, the union wants royalties (they say “performance bonuses”) for every 2 million copies or downloads sold.
This may be a theory, but it seems that for the Japanese game companies, it provides them with another excuse not to implement English voices in localisation. If voice actors are being paid unfairly like this, this could be a sign that game publishers dislike English voices just as badly as dub haters.
Even though I support the union with their proposed strike action, I have a concern: how long will the strike go for? The union states that all members would be unable to work during the strike and they ask that non-members follow suit as well. If this happens, what will happen to the games that are being localised with voices at that very moment? Will the publishers have to stick with Japanese voices or delay the games until the voice actors are available again? I honestly doubt they would choose the latter, despite the backlash they would get from fans.
Now, I’m going to speak to all the dub haters out there. You do not realise that if you disrespect English voices in Japanese games, you are disrespecting the voice actors who are trying to provide entertainment for players of localised Japanese games. What about your Western games like Call of Duty or Assassin’s Creed? Some of your favourite voice actors in those games might voice characters in a localised Japanese game. Are you sure that you want to disrespect English voice actors when you know that they are in your other favourite games?
How about the publishers of localised Japanese games? Do you really hate English voices that much? If you’re treating your voice actors like this, you might as well not bother with English voices in your games. If you really care about the fans, and you want to give them English dub, then you will treat voice actors with the respect they deserve.
English dub fans, I hope that you can support the voice actors with getting the demands they want in order to be treated fairly.
If anyone has any thoughts on this, feel free to reply or reblog!
