ssssssoooooomebody (@treevore) finally convinced me that Niro and Orin end up with offspring in the long-term future of his return to her. Everyone say hi to the twins: Aroen (left, he/him) and Neora (right, she/her).
More (a lot more, probably) coming soon on these two. For now:
Years after the events of BG3, an isolated cult forms around a man in whose form is manifest the divine might of slaughter incarnate, a cult dedicated first to this angel of blood-drenched hedonism, but secondly to his beloved consort and their intertwined twins, all of whom carry his sacred lineage richly in their veins.
Very, very easy. For a massive murder machine, he's got a certain... whimsy? It makes him easily delighted by rather mundane experiences, easily impressed by quick retorts and wordplay, easily amused.
One of the things that I think people often find unsettling about him is that his cruelty and depravity exist alongside a genuine, earnest cheerfulness, a joie de vivre that's hard to square with all-consuming bloodlust. But the thing about him is that, in large part, nothing that's going on in his life—his need to kill, the dangerous company he keeps, the risks he takes—are a problem to him. As far as he's concerned, he's having fun, his life is never boring, and he's doing what he likes to do.
So he's a happy guy, and he laughs a lot, because every day's a beautiful day to be a blight upon mankind.
20. If they were asked to explain the difference between romantic and platonic or familial love, how would they do so?
He couldn't. He might try, but he would fail rather quickly, and he would be well aware that he was failing at it. He is only distantly acquainted with love in general, let alone its types and flavors. He knows it only through the proxies of devotion, dependence, and desire. The nuances are lost on him.
39. How easy is it for them to ignore flaws in other people?
When those other people are people with whom he has little attachment, none at all; he is unforgiving of even the slightest flaws among those that don't matter to him (a category that includes almost everyone). But when those flaws appear in a person to whom he's bonded, he is capable of significant selective ignorance. He can reason his way around caring about things that usually grate on him if doing so allows him to continue viewing his lover as his perfect companion.
43. If someone asked them to explain their sexuality, how would they do so?
I answered this one here; the gist of it is that he'd define his sexuality in terms of his general openness and desire for a wide range of one-and-done sex partners.
Something I didn't state in that answer but which I think I ought to elaborate on is that he's nondiscriminating when it comes to most standard ways people define their sexual preferences (gender, age, body type, etc.) specifically because he sees other people as distinguished primarily by being Not Like Him. He generally believes he's not a person! As far as he's concerned, he's in one category, and all humanoids are in the other category. That is the most important dividing line. All else is trivial in comparison.
A. Why are you excited about this character?
He's kind of a distillation of every character trope I love. I've got a track record of immediately latching onto the most depraved and unwell characters, especially when they're also kind of silly, dramatic, and flamboyant on top of being horrible to be around. I especially love stories with terrible codependent relationships between people who are the living embodiment of that one Reddit AITA response that's like, "Your relationship is a train wreck, and you deserve each other. You must stay together, because you should never be allowed to inflict yourselves on other people."
I love the sheer drama built into the Dark Urge—the glory of being very nearly an incarnation of a god, the horror of being an incarnation of a god of murder, and the pathos of the betrayal. There's so much potential there. I'm excited by how much I can put him through because of all that.
Also, I think he's hot. I made some design decisions for him with the intention that I'd find him weird-looking and creepy, not hot, and that worked for a while, but then I started finding him hot anyway. You can tell approximately when this happened because it's when I went from posting mostly not-porn art of him to mostly porn art of him.
D. Have they always had the same physical appearance, or have you had to edit how they look?
He hasn't changed much! I mean, I'm not 100% consistent with my drawings of him, so his face varies a little bit each time I draw him, but overall I feel like I nailed down my desired appearance for him pretty early on and have mostly just been working to get it consistent.
I did change the shape of his ears, though. A lot of my earlier drawings of him gave him standard pointy elf ears. I don't remember exactly when I switched to giving him the squared-off low, angular ears he's got now, but I think it was maybe six to eight months ago.
Sometimes I feel like his features are kind of going through a constant game of Telephone, in which some things get pushed just a little bit further each time I draw him. The U-shaped forehead wrinkle thing (I'm gonna be so honest. I don't know what that is. But it's important to me that it's on there) that he's got going on is a very distant evolution of two weird little marks I put between his eyebrows the very first time I ever drew him. Same thing with his triangle eyebrows—just a slow, bit by bit translation of an original shape. And I think I make his irises a bit smaller every single time I draw him. But for the most part, all those things feel like variations on themes that have been there since the beginning.
Speaking of, here's a quick little side-by-side of the very first time I ever drew him (holy shit what a blast from the past) and a recent one (ignore that the face tattoo on the recent one is just scribbles. I get lazy with it when I don't expect that I'll ever be zooming in on it)
is ghost an animal guy? like i am not saying pets i wouldn't trust him with a pet rock but does he harbour any kind of appreciation for beasts?
"wouldn't trust him with a pet rock" LOL FAIR ENOUGH
Ghost's opinions of most animals are strongly determined by his fear of dirtiness and strong sense of disgust. Most land-dwelling creatures register as disgusting in his mind; as far as he's concerned, they shit where they eat and walk amongst each others' filth. There's no hard rule for what falls into that category, but importantly, most standard domestic animals (including common pets and livestock) are included. He refuses to eat meat from cattle, pigs, sheep, goats, and chickens because he considers them unclean, and he finds it repulsive that many people allow dogs in their houses.
He makes an exception for certain creatures he's observed to be particularly hygienic; cats are one such creature, on account of their innate tendency to bury their waste and groom themselves often. He's not a cat lover, but he can at least understand why people keep cats as pets, and he may occasionally think they're somewhat endearing. He also has some respect for horses—quite possibly the only animal more high-strung and stubborn than him—because he finds them rather beautiful; they do still gross him out.
He likes non-land animals, though. He'll eat pretty much anything that comes out of an ocean, a lake, or a river, but he also just appreciates them more generally. I'm not sure how much exposure your average Baldur's Gate citizen has to the megafauna of the ocean, but I think he'd like sharks, jellyfish, octopuses, and rays. He also likes birds, especially songbirds and those that can mimic various sounds.
Some Random Niro/Orin Headcanons: Language Edition
Niro's first language is Elvish, which he speaks with a strong Menzoberranzan accent. He was taught to speak Common by the priest who kept him captive, primarily because it was a convenient way to evade eavesdropping by the guards, who were mostly male drow who'd only ever been educated in Elvish and Undercommon. Five decades of captivity made him pretty much fluent in Common, but he's far more comfortable and eloquent in Elvish.
Niro came to the Temple of Bhaal when Orin was about seven years old, and she immediately took a liking to him and followed him around as much as she was allowed to. He spoke in Elvish to her often, and because she was still a child, she picked it up quickly.
By the time she was an adult, Orin spoke Elvish nearly as well as a native speaker, but she can't read or write it, as during Niro's time at the temple, he could neither read nor write, so he couldn't teach her that.
Orin's Elvish speaking habits make it obvious that Niro was more or less her only source for learning the language. Like him, she speaks Elvish with a strong Menzoberranzan accent, and her speech is similarly peppered with unusual Elvish phrases—both archaisms, idiosyncratic idioms, and and references to obscure prose and poetry—passed from the priest's speech patterns into Niro's, then from Niro's into Orin's.
To hear Orin speak Elvish in such an accent must have been distinctly surprising to Minthara, herself a drow of Menzoberranzan.
Many of Orin's more unusual phrasings in the Common tongue are approximate translations of things she originally heard from Niro in Elvish.
I wonder if it turned out that Orin got pregnant by a Ghost, what would they do and how would they behave (especially Orin, given her character)
And I was wondering what Sarevok meant in the dialogue with the dark urge, that Orin had treated him badly🤔
Oh, god, neither of them should be allowed to be parents.
That's not to say I haven't thought about it. You know, I'm usually not the sort of person that thinks much about characters having children (I can't say I've ever really thought about it much before for any other characters in which I've been interested), but the possibility of the two of them having a child together has haunted me for quite a while now, primarily for the reason that it's One Simple Thing that could make their already deeply messed up situation significantly worse.
From a purely practical perspective, neither Ghost nor Orin would particularly enjoy having a child around. Ghost is too self-interested, impatient, and easily repulsed to deal with a child, especially an infant. And Orin, based on her own childhood, has plenty of reasons to be suspicious of the consequences of having a child; as it grew up, she would grow increasingly fearful that Bhaal would come to prefer her child over her, an event which history tells would likely end in Orin's demise. But aside from that, I also can't imagine that she'd be a good parent, given that she never experienced much parenting herself.
That being said, I think they both desperately fantasize about conceiving a child together. A lot has already been said about the apparent innate Bhaalspawn urge to propagate more Bhaalspawn, so I've little to add on to that thread; suffice to say that the two of them talked quite a lot about it, primarily while having sex.
There were several years before the betrayal when Niro and Orin were rawing each other regularly. Barring other causes of infertility, it's pretty remarkable that they didn't actually conceive a child during that time, and I believe that that's no accident or matter of luck. No matter how appealing she personally found the idea of conceiving a child, I think that Orin was responsible for preventing them from actually doing so (though I'm not sure she did so intentionally).
(What follows is fully my own take on Orin; I make no claims to this being rooted in her canon, even more so than usual.) I think Orin does not have a biological sex, by which I mean that when she was born, she possessed no recognizable external sex characteristics, and in the years before she could control her shapeshifting particularly well, her apparent biological sex changed regularly enough that she had no clear "true" sex. By the time she reached maturity, biological sex was completely arbitrary to her. Her body often appears to have a biological sex, but sometimes it doesn't, and she mixes and matches parts as she pleases. I believe her control over her sex extends to her internal reproductive organs, which she lacks by default, but which might be possessed by forms she takes on.
(As an aside, I think it's an interesting duality that, in my own personal canon, Orin has a gender but lacks a sex, while Niro has a sex but lacks a gender.)
In the time before the betrayal, I think that she chose not to possess internal reproductive organs for much of the time that she was having potentially-conceptive sex with Niro. I'm not sure how conscious that choice was; it may have been an internal decision she didn't even realize she'd made, motivated by that deep-seated fear of the potentially life-ending consequences of bearing a Bhaalspawn child.
I don't think the possibility of them having a child is fully off the table in the Ghost-returns-to-Orin canon. It'd be a long ways down the road, certainly, but I think there are circumstances under which they could both end up drifting down that path. Those circumstances would almost certainly be messy.
They'd absolutely have an interesting-looking kid, though.
As for the question about Sarevok's lines regarding the relationship between the Dark Urge and Orin: as a general rule, I'm very willing to believe that the statements made by characters in game, particularly known villains, are motivated statements that are not necessarily true. When the Dark Urge is speaking to Sarevok in game, Sarevok appears to have an interest in encouraging a conflict between them and Orin. It is my opinion that that is sufficient motivation for him to say what he believes will help incite that conflict, namely, sowing seeds of vengeance in the mind of one who seems not to remember very much about the truth of that relationship. I think my overall thesis here is that (1) it is perfectly reasonable that Sarevok said to Ghost that Orin treated him badly if Sarevok is lying, and (2) Sarevok has very clear reasons to lie and no clear reasons not to lie in that scenario.
sooooo does the slayer form factor into any of their activities together?
HAHAHAHA GOOD QUESTION
(I've been meaning to draw Ghost's slayer form... this ask might have pushed that closer to the front of my art queue.)
Yes.
Because I can't ever answer questions that straightforwardly, a bit of exploratory Bhaalist metatheology: I headcanon that the idea that there is only one true Chosen of Bhaal is an idea held by the Cult of Bhaal and promulgated by Sarevok, primarily to ensure his own singular position of authority; I don't think that's actually Bhaal's own intent. If two potential Chosen are on opposing paths, it certainly makes sense for them to murder-duel it out, but pragmatically speaking, it makes significantly more sense for there to be more than one person permitted to lead the slaughter of the entire rest of the planet. Conflict between Chosen is a roadblock to Bhaal's goal; cooperation between Chosen is not. So I don't think there's any reason why a well-behaved, goal-sharing duo cannot both be Chosen of Bhaal.
All this to say, ever since Orin became an adult and was initiated into the temple of Bhaal, both she and Ghost had slayer forms. Ghost lost his when he was tadpoled, then regained it during the events of the BG3 campaign. After his return to Orin, they've still both got slayer forms.
I can promise you that they've fucked in every permutation of normal form and slayer form possible.
That being said, I think they both ended up with a general preference for not using slayer forms for sadomasochistic purposes; one loses some finesse and control when one is large, vaguely insectoid, and in possession of claws and mandibles.
21.What are 2-3 songs that your Dark Urge would relate to?
24.Does your Dark Urge have a treasured item with them? If yes, what is it and why is it special? If no, how do they feel about item sentimentality in general?
29.What advice would you give to your Dark Urge?
I have one more important question for later. 🐙
hey, thanks for the questions!! also I'm very intrigued by the important question for later haha
21. What are 2-3 songs that your Dark Urge would relate to?
This is a fun one! My picks are:
"See the Lights Shine" by Author & Punisher (YouTube link here). I can't really explain why; it just sounds like the way the inside of his mind sounds.
"Power and Sacrifice" by Swans (YouTube link here), which resonates with his complicated feelings about control and agency resulting from him spending his formative years in captivity.
"Vore" by Sleep Token (YouTube link here), which lines up with his feelings about Orin.
Maybe someday I'll post my whole Niro playlist...
24. Does your Dark Urge have a treasured item with them? If yes, what is it and why is it special? If no, how do they feel about item sentimentality in general?
Not anymore, as of the events of the BG3 campaign, but he did once, and it's shown up in a few drawings...
He and Orin had matching bracelets made of braided strands of each other's hair. Orin made one for him when she was a child; he made one for her almost immediately after, and they both continued to wear theirs for years. Kressa Bonedaughter took his bracelet off him when he was in her laboratory, and he has no idea what happened to it after that, and after the betrayal Orin destroyed hers.
29. What advice would you give to your Dark Urge?
I answered this one here, but the gist of it is that I'd tell him to get a hobby, because he's got the time to get insanely good at it, and he might as well do something with his ridiculously long natural lifespan.
Hihihi me again I have a silly lil question about Niro and Orin. Do you think they get jealous of each others paramours once they are “together”? It’s implied Minthara and Orin had a lil something even if it was short lived and tadpole induced, so it made me wonder if Niro would care, or if this was normal for the two of them? Love the work as always smooches <3
heyyy thanks for the question!! <3<3<3
Niro and Orin are both extremely possessive of each other, but under general circumstances—and particularly, when they're securely entangled with each other—they're not inclined to be terribly jealous, primarily because neither one tends to look beyond the other, with the notable exception of the aftermath of the betrayal.
You're so right to mention Minthara—she's a great example here. In my canon for my Ghost run of BG3, I think that Ghost tracked down and killed Minthara sometime after the events of the campaign (I recruited her, so she was still around then). He did so specifically because as memories of his relationship with Orin began to filter back into his shattered mind, he became obsessed with the fact that Minthara held Orin's attention for a time, however fleeting that time was. No matter that Minthara experienced Orin's interest in her as largely torturous; those scraps of time that she got with Orin were too much for Ghost to handle. Here, he was brutally jealous, because he could no longer retreat to the security of his relationship with Orin.
In a world in which Niro regained his memories and left the party to go back to Orin (which, at this point, I'm starting to think of as just as canon as the events based on my BG3 run, in some ways), he'd react quite differently to learning of what transpired between Orin and Minthara. Once he'd resumed a relationship with Orin, and thus could understand that Minthara was not a competitor for Orin's attention anymore, he'd be able to see something about Orin's interest in Minthara that he wouldn't be able to pick out if he were still so fixated on that desperate wanting for just a few more days with his love.
Minthara is a noble drow from Menzoberranzan; she speaks in a low, raspy voice; she tends to look upon others with little interest or compassion; she is an unflinchingly ruthless paladin. All of these things are true of Niro as well. When Niro was not wracked with grief at the loss of Orin, he'd be able to understand that Orin used Minthara as a proxy for him, and he would enjoy that.
Roughly the same thing is true of Orin's attitude towards any relationships Niro had during the time before he left the party to seek her out again; the things that he finds attractive in other people—unusual or distinctive physical features; strong aesthetic sensibilities; eccentric, poetic, or archaic speech patterns; viciousness—are all things he finds attractive about Orin, and even though he didn't know it at the time, before he could recall Orin, any searching for partnership he did was essentially a search for another Orin. (In my BG3-run canon, he ends up with Astarion, and I'm far from the first to draw a neat link between certain relevant features of Astarion and Orin, but it's worth saying that that similarity is 100% why he does find Astarion deeply attractive.)
The long and short of it is that Niro and Orin are so utterly obsessed with each other that, so long as their relationship is in place as a source of security, neither one feels that anybody else could be a threat to the other's devotion to them. So they're possessive, but not exactly jealous, at least not when they're actually together.
