#fate analysis

[chillchaoticchaos]

⚠️Fate/ Stay Night Spoilers⚠️

Shirou is a character who pretty often has the issue of people reading a lot of his more irrational and self destructive actions exclusively as him being stupid rather than as a reaction to his deeply rooted issues. A lot of this comes from the Ufotable versions of F/SN in particular which I don’t think are necessarily bad adaptations but rather struggle with the fact that a lot of Shirou’s characterization comes from his internal dialogue, which is difficult to adapt in a way that feels natural.

However, I feel like there is almost an over correction with people wanting to portray Shirou as being more messed up and worse than he is. I think a bit of this comes from extrapolating things from the fact that Shirou is the narrative foil of Kirei. Shirou is 100% a foil to Kirei and they are extremely similar but their situations aren’t perfect’s opposites.

Another factor for this shift relates to how Shirou describes himself. Shirou views himself as being a completely broken and empty shell of person. However there is a Shirou besides a broken husk.

We see Shirou enjoy things not related to being a hero of justice; it’s just that he feels like he doesn’t deserve to and views being a hero of justice as the only way he can find true happiness. His date with Rin in UBW is an especially good example of this. We also see that he enjoys cooking (which could partially relate a desire to be of service to others but I personally feel not entirely). I’m not denying that Shirou is a person with a lot of major mental health issues. However, he has emotions even if he majorly struggles with experiencing happiness and reacts to things in unexpected ways.

There’s two reasons for this small discrepancy between Shirou’s self perception and the actuality of Shirou. First of all is the societal context Shirou is in, early 2000s Japan. Being in a culture that is avoidant to discussing mental health issues whilst dealing with them would likely lead to feelings of alienation. Shirou feeling as though he is inhuman feels realistic. Secondly is Shirou in a way having reasons to want to view himself as being mentally worse than he is. For Shirou, it’s easier to think of himself as not having felt happiness since the fire than to acknowledge the immense guilt that comes with his rare moments of joy. I’d also argue this ties to Shirou’s repression in a way as well; not allowing himself to acknowledge how much he cared about his birth family and the other people from his past, convincing himself that the person he was before is completely dead and deeply repressing his memories of that time makes the loss hurt less. I don’t think it’s a conscious act but it’s still notable.

Anyways this is just my interpretation so feel free to disagree with me. Shirou is an incredibly written character that can be read in a lot of different ways.

[hasgudagudadoneanythingwrong]

Thinking about all the reasons for Nobunaga's selection of her Master in Redline, from the pettiness of her situation, to skipping over every single viable candidate, and instead picking the "least qualified" Master in the room, while still maintaining otherwise purely selfish motivations for participating in the grail war.

You could say it was a decision made of sympathies, but I think it's rather diminutive to suggest that's the only reason. After all, it's still a petty decision for a petty situation, to dismiss everyone who had just wanted to use you for their own gain and instead choose someone who did not. Likewise, for a selfishly motivated Servant, it's a also clear choice to pick someone who would not stand in your way or attempt to dictate your actions either. Sympathies or not, a Master paralyzed by fear with no clear goals of their own is easier to work with than one still seeking to use you, and it's not as though anyone would be able to openly protest the arrangement, either.

That said, it is not a purely selfish arrangement, just as it is not purely kindhearted. Nobunaga is still clearly protective of their Master, paying only her any regard while dismissing everyone else, and they do look after her between pursuing their own ambitions.

All that to say, for as cold and ambitious as Nobunaga is, they still hold sympathy for their Master, and for as protective as they are, they still have quite selfish motivations. There is complexity to their actions, and I both appreciate that and think considerably about it as well.

[chillchaoticchaos]

⚠️Fate/ Zero Spoilers⚠️

Kiritsugu cheating on Irisviel with Maiya to “prepare for his betrayal” is ridiculous and he is a terrible person for it. However, I will never agree with people who say that it’s unnecessary because it serves a purpose. It shows that although Kiritsugu thinks of himself as being rational he really isn’t. The fact that he feels like he has to do this in order go through with his plan shows that although utilitarianism is rational in theory it’s absurd in practice. It’s showing people aren’t psychologically built to be “perfect” utilitarians. Kiritsugu’s affair is immoral and uncomfortable (in general but also especially given what the power imbalance in his relationship with Maiya is like) but it’s supposed to be.

It’s not a major plot point narrative wise but it’s great characterization for Kiritsugu. It also serves to help show Maiya’s unhealthy devotion to Kiritsugu, given that fact she was willing to be a part of Kiritsugu’s pathetic affair. If you hate the affair’s existence that’s totally fine and I completely get it but to say it doesn’t serve the narrative is false.

[chillchaoticchaos]

⚠️Discussion of Grooming, SA, Teen/Child Pregnancy, and War⚠️

Kiritsugu, Maiya, and Grooming

I think people aren’t willing enough to acknowledge that Kiritsugu groomed Maiya. Although I am willing to make an argument that when they first met he didn’t have any intention of sexually grooming her because the only reason that they eventually had that sort of relationship was because of Kiritsugu’s relationship with Irisviel, he 100% at least somewhat deliberately groomed her in a non-sexual manner. Kiritsugu took in a vulnerable person and raised her to be his assistant, with Kiritsugu ending up being the only thing she finds any meaning in.

Their relationship is extremely unhealthy, but there is a bit of nuance that by no means excuse Kiritsugu’s actions but does make it really interesting from a character writing perspective.

We don’t have a canonical age for Maiya but we can do a little guesswork. We know based on her backstory that by the time she has met Kiritsugu she would’ve been old enough to have both gotten pregnant and given birth. Based on what she says to Irisviel in their scene together in the shed we know she got pregnant almost as soon as she was biologically physically able to. When this would be isn’t known, but given that she was almost certainly malnourished, she would most likely be on the older end of the average range of menarche. In regards to Kiritsugu we know he hired by the Einzbern’s at the age of 20 and based on the way that they act like, he and Maiya had worked together during Kiritsugu’s active era for a decent gap of time.

Thus, I’d estimate their ages when they met is Maiya being in a roughly 14-16 age range and Kiritsugu being in a roughly 16-18 age range. Although their age gap is smaller than one might first assume, their relationship is still grooming because of the power imbalance. I do not intend to in any way defend Kiritsugu’s actions; however I do feel the need to acknowledge that there is something tragic about them. Two young people who have been exposed to the horrors of war, the worst of the worst of humanity, severely damaging their ability to make normal connections and yet they still form a relationship that’s toxic and can’t even be described as a friendship and yet still has an unconventional closeness to it even if Kiritsugu isn’t willing to acknowledge that it does.

Kiritsugu and Maiya’s relationship is supposed to parallel Natalia and Kiritsugu’s relationship, with Kiritsugu taking the way he was raised and applying it to Maiya. The way they raised people wasn’t good but did serve the purpose of helping them to survive in a harsh and cruel environment. Again, this doesn’t excuse the fact that Kiritsugu groomed Maiya but it does give some slight explanation.

In summary, people in the Fate fandom aren’t really willing to acknowledge that Kiritsugu groomed Maiya which I think is a bit of a shame because although it is uncomfortable to discuss (and also people unfortunately kinda ignore Maiya a lot of the time) it is interesting from a narrative standpoint.

[chillchaoticchaos]

⚠️Fate Stay Night Spoilers⚠️

One of my favorite scenes in Stay Night is Shirou having a dream remembering Kiritsugu’s death. When I first read through the entire VN I thought the scene differed slightly among routes but it’s the same, it’s just made to work in all of them. The sense of Shirou panicking about his inability to be a hero of justice towards the end of the scene reflecting how he feels he can’t live up to his idea of a hero while also working with how UBW Shirou will have to accept that saving everyone is impossible but still striving to and how HF Shirou will end up abandoning being a hero of justice for Sakura.

The way in which Fate Stay Night (and Nasu`s works in general) recontextualizes details is also on display. In this scene, a comment about the lack of the sound of bugs being read as simple set dressing in Fate and UBW, setting the mood. In HF however this small detail is given more weight due to the fact that Zouken was previously associated with insect noises. Rather than the detail about the lack of noise literally being about Zouken not being there, I read it as being more metaphorical. Although Kiritsugu was a very flawed person and Shirou’s idea of being a hero of justice and the issues that comes with that was because of Kiritsugu’s influence (though you can’t place the blame entirely onto Kiritsugu since post-fire Shirou’s desperation for purpose was what caused him to attach onto being a hero of justice, with Kiritsugu’s dying words just exacerbating the existing issues), Shirou’s experience being adopted by him was positive. This is in contrast to Sakura’s experience of being adopted by the Matous. The sound of bugs vs silence serves as a reflection of the sharp contrast between the Matou household and Emiya household. In summary, Shirou’s memory of Kiritsugu’s death is an excellent scene with multiple readings based on the context of the route.

[chillchaoticchaos]

⚠️Fate Stay Night Spoilers, Discussion of SA and incest⚠️

Shinji Matou Observations

Shinji is, in my opinion, one of the best examples of a character that you are made to despise but also appreciate the writing quality of.

Something that isn’t really talked about enough is that with most people Shinji is pretty decent to. He’s pretty popular at school and to a majority of people he’s fairly normal to. However as you probably know there are a couple of people that this is very very much not the case with, and I think there’s an interesting connection between three of them in particular. The order I am going to list them in might sound weird but just stick with me.

Ayako Mitsuzuri is the captain of the archery team. Shinji, the vice-captain, appears to resent this fact. In Fate route, she is attacked by and has her blood sucked by Rider. Shinji denies his involvement (and if Shinji was active in Rider choosing her as a target can’t be stated with 100% certainty) but spreads rumors about what happened that made it seem like Ayako was possibly sexually assaulted to tarnish her reputation.

Rin Tohsaka is current head of the Tohsaka family and also a person who Shinji was attracted to. She rejects him. In Unlimited Bladeworks, he attempts to rape her but is stopped by Lancer

Sakura Matou’s relevance to this discussion of people who Shinji is terrible to is obvious. He resents her because he feels robbed from his position of being the heir by her and he has been physically and sexually abusing her for a while before Fate Stay Night starts, though the extent of this is only truly revealed in Heaven’s Feel.

There is a pattern with these three cases in particular (and a weaker pattern with these three + Shirou which I will discuss in a bit). Essentially, in all of these cases there is a person who he is envious of the position of and/or he feels entitled to and he retaliates with attempts of either violence, particularly sexual violence, or spreading rumors of to exert control over them.In summary, there is this sense of desperation with Shinji, he hates the fact that others have positions that he doesn’t so he excerpts power over them with the means he has, primarily sexual violence and harassment.

I feel this applies to a much lesser extent with Shirou. I’m grouping him separatly because it’s pretty different but it’s still relevant. Shirou for a long time was one of the people who would be in the first category of Shinji interactions (side tangent but so was Sakura before he realized she was the heir). Shinji was very close to Shirou and although he was somewhat rude to him he also did look out for him.

Their relationship started becoming strained after Shinji learnt the truth about Sakura and started acting differently. This is part of the reason that Shirou quit the archery team. The other reason (which was more of a convenient excuse for him) was because he got injured and work and Shinji told him that it would be improper for him to do archery with the burn scar he got. The idea of Shinji wanting Shirou off the archery team is interesting. It is important to remember that Shirou was an incredible archery prodigy. Shinji has a problem with people having a people who have positions that he doesn’t. I do wonder then if that’s part of the reason why he started to get more harsh towards Shirou.

There is a lot of subtlety in their relationship though. In spite of the potential cause of envy from back when they were both on the archery team, as well as the fact that at some point Shinji would’ve had to put together that Shirou has the magic circuits that he lacks because of the fact that Shirou is the master of Saber without any external objects like Shinji needed, Shinji is still wants to try to convince Shirou to double cross Rin and team up with him instead. Regardless of everything that’s happened and how strained their relationship is he still places some value in their friendship.

The fact that Shirou and Shinji were childhood friends is obviously a major factor in the fact that Shinji’s relationship with Shirou is a lot more nuanced than the three girls I previously mentioned. However I do also think there is another factor to ponder. Now obviously men can be sexually assaulted. However in this particular case there is most likely a gendered aspect to this. Shinji uses sexual violence/ attempts of sexual violence towards Rin and Sakura as a way of exerting dominance, his attempt at upholding patriarchal social norms. Sakura plays into this reading especially, with rape attempt that is directly shown being Shinji lashing out at Sakura for talking back towards him, something she hadn’t done before.

Shinji is desperate for control and power and this manifests as cruelty towards specific people a way that contrasts his relatively decent behavior with people who he sees as beneath him.This need for control is mainly spurred from him feeling robbed from being the heir to the Matou family. There is an irony to this because although his home life is terrible, being the person who Zouken has his attention on is far worse.

[chillchaoticchaos]

Shirou Emiya Gender Analysis

⚠️Fate/ Stay Night Spoilers, discussions of sexism⚠️

Notice

Although I support people who interpret or headcanon Shirou as being a closeted trans woman, I don’t personally subscribe to that reading. Again no hate whatsoever if you do but this is not the interpretation that I take in this essay.

Misogyny

Shirou is somewhat infamously a bit of a misogynist, primarily in Fate route. There’s two main examples of this; his insistence that he should be the one to protect Saber despite her protests, and him hoping that getting mugged will cause Ayako to act like more like a girl and thus be less likely to get hurt again. Some people will argue that he’s not actually a misogynist because of the fact that it’s mostly a front for his self sacrificial behavior which is true, but this doesn’t make his action not misogynistic

Gender roles

As previously discussed Shirou has issues with traditionally masculine behavior exhibited by Ayako and Saber (though with the latter there is some nuance since he does also have valid concerns about her self-dehumanization). Regarding Shirou himself, he expresses a small amount of shame regarding his interest in housework and cooking. One factor that I think is potentially a potential reason for this fixation is a search for identity. Shirou views himself as being empty inside and wants to remedy that, specifically by being a hero of justice. This is mainly because he thinks that will allow him to finally be happy, but also because “Hero of Justice” functions as an ideal future identity. I believe that Shirou’s relationship to masculinity functions similarly, albeit to a lesser degree. He feels like he has nothing so he clings to masculinity so that he has something, hence why it’s brought up constantly.

This was the impression that I got while reading the visual novel but feel free to share your thoughts.

[chillchaoticchaos]

⚠️Fate/ Zero and Fate/ Stay Night Spoilers⚠️

This is coming from a person who loves Fate/ Zero a great deal but as everyone has said, Saber’s characterization in it is…. not great. Obviously this isn’t new thing to say as it’s pretty widely agreed on.

What I’m going to argue here is that although Shirou and Kiritsugu are in many ways opposites, and their respective relationships to Saber are perhaps even more opposite, there’s one major similarity, which doesn’t get to really be shown due to Saber’s mischaracterization in Zero.

Allow me to elaborate.

Let’s begin with Shirou and Saber. So at the start of Fate Route, Shirou and Saber’s dynamic is essentially they’re mutually kind of upset with each other for being self sacrificial.

In regards to Kiritsugu, I forgot which scene it’s in but it’s stated that as king, Saber would sacrifice one village for the sake of several. Sounds a little familiar?

Saber dislikes Shirou’s lack of regard for his own life and Kiritsugu’s ruthlessness in the pursuit of the good of the many, whilst also possessing some aspects of these traits. Is this hypocrisy? Maybe a little bit but there’s something more at play here. Saber is more capable in a fight than Shirou and also if Shirou gets taken out she basically is taken out as well so she views her sacrificing herself for him to be more justified. She possesses a knight’s honor unlike Kiritsugu and maintains the distance of a king with her sacrifices.

Essentially, you have Saber and Kiritsugu who are like “I have to throw away my emotions and humanity in order to be the individual who does what’s best for the kingdom/ humanity”. Kiritsugu dislikes Saber for this because he feels she was forced into that position and Saber dislikes Kiritsugu for this because of his methods. Rounding out this triangle of hypocrisy, you have Shirou, a broken person who sees nothing wrong in him being used by the people around him or throwing his life away for others but reacts negatively to Saber doing the same thing.

In summary, there’s a small pattern of Saber has a tendency to at least initially dislike people who are like her but their methods or thought processes differ enough from her that it’s not entirely clear if she notices the similarities. Saber is a really fun character to read.