#fgo chaldea

[senhor-do-escuro]

I wish FGO's story would explore the average staff members of Chaldea at some point. Personally i think it would be cool to explore the lives from average normal humans who survived the end of the world twice.

[megashadowdragon]

on marisbury

"I got a bit carried away here with explaining how Chaldea’s systems work, and how Zouken Matou perceives them. One of the most interesting things to me is how odd everything Chaldea does is, and how willing people are to completely gloss over the fake science behind it. Kayneth Archibald in the Fate/Zero event is told about the systems of Chaldea by Waver, and compares them to True Magic on multiple occasions.

I think that they probably are exactly that. 

Obviously, Marisbury rejected using the Grail to reach the root when he won the Grail War, but pay close attention to his wording in that rejection. “The third magic means nothing to me. As the head of the Animusphere family and chairman of the Astromancy division.. I must reach the root in my own unique way.” That does not read as him not wanting to reach the root, but having every intention to do so, or possibly even had already used his own method. The science of Chaldea’s Rayshifts is built on the idea of existence verification. In the Moonlight/Lostroom material, we are told that the process works because a coffin is a “ Living but Dead Box ” similar to the one of the proposal of Schrödinger’s cat. The Master’s existence is verified as unknown and then transmitted to the time period. Their existence in the coffin is defined as nothing at this point, and they exist in the Rayshift destination as a result. Seems simple enough right?

There is a problem with that theory beyond the fact that Ritsuka had a nasty habit of Rayshifting outside of a coffin in Arc 1 (despite Beryl’s claims that not even Chaldea can do that). Schrödinger’s cat is not intended to be real science. It is a thought experiment proposed by Erwin Schrödinger in a conversation with Albert Einstein about the flaws of the Copenhagen solution to the Schrödinger equation. The idea that a wave can exist in an unknown state before it is observed, was taken to an illogical extreme by using a living organism to point out the flaws in the arrogance of believing that observation defines the entirety of the universe around us and not just our perception of it. This thought experiment has been twisted to illustrate the idea to beginners of how quantum superpositioning works, but it was not the original intent. And the science proposed by Copenhagen was also only meant to reflect the collapse of waves- theoretically, this could be that on a grander scale but Nasu has explicitly referenced Schrödinger alone in Fate, so I’m a bit skeptical. Many scientists have taken the Copenhagen solution to be refuted by the idea of parallel worlds- that when the wave is observed, it exists in one state in one universe and the opposite in the other. It never existed in a state of superposition, just a different state based on branching paths. That’s not the most common theory, but it is a conflicting one with some popularity. So where is the science behind the rayshift? All magecraft has to have science for it to function.

It could be Nasu overlooking the science to make his magecraft rules work, but Mahoyo draws attention away from this idea. Aoko compares reaching the root to becoming the richest man in the world as her analogy. Who was it who chose to do that instead of reaching the root again? A fun tongue in cheek thing at most, but then Aoko also says the following. “Granted, some users are able to trick you into thinking something’s possible when it really isn’t.” Aoko had previously defined magic as the things that are impossible for humans and magecraft as a shortcut for things that are theoretically possible. And she herself had already drawn attention to Marisbury. There is also the fact that the final chapter of the game has the word “ Chaldea ” written on the spine in the library area for chapter navigation. Here Aoko is bringing up the idea that someone could be hiding that they are a Magician by claiming their miracle is possible through Magecraft. You usually don’t have a line like that if you don’t plan on doing something with it at some point, or at the very least you are considering doing something like that. 

And Marisbury with all the hundreds of abnormalities surrounding the systems of Chaldea is the most obvious culprit for that. If his Magic- likely the fourth allows for him to place things in a simultaneous state of existence, you can explain away the time dilation on CHALDEAS, the existence of CHALDEAS as the earth’s soul but also separate, and the Rayshift system. CHALDEAS is not a copy of the earth or the materialization of its soul, it’s forcing the earth to exist in two simultaneous quantum states- two places at the same time. “Tethered, the fourth concealed itself.” If the Animusphere Magic is based around simultaneous existences, then fundamentally, one would be hidden from the world itself, as the entirety of the Schrödinger hypothetical is that observation defines existence. That is why Arcueid in Tsukihime claims that there are only four magicians but the mage's association can claim that a fourth definitely exists, but they know nothing about them. In that conversation, Arcueid is talking about Shiki with Aoko and she knows Zelretch personally. Yumina as the first is always counted as technically alive. So your magician, Arcueid as the Archetype of the planet, can not detect is either her not counting Justeaze as the Grail, or her inability as the planet to recognize the existence of the one who concealed itself . Morgan does tell us to question Rayshifting specifically in Avalon le Fae.

This is just a theory, not even a super high confidence one, but I wish more people would consider that Chaldea’s systems are entirely impossible rather than glossing over it with the explanation that Science + Magecraft can do anything. Magecraft according to Aoko can literally do everything that science can on its own . Adding science in wouldn’t make things work that were impossible before, at most it would be slightly more efficient than Magecraft. Mystic codes crafted by Magicians can utilize True Magic and can be used by anyone according to Mahoyo (And seen with the sword of Zelretch in FSN). And Da Vinci does claim that Marisbury, despite his numerous impossible inventions for Chaldea is a “fake genius” in Camelot, which is completely irrational if those are actually the inventions of science or magecraft. Time travel, copying the planet’s soul, spiritron transfers, the summoning of hundreds of heroic spirits outside of a grail war? Those are arguably all more impressive achievements than anything Da Vinci accomplished in their life. To call him a fake genius is completely irrational. 

Alright, now let’s talk about Ritsuka. Despite what people want to think, Ritsuka’s simple summons that we use for gameplay have been a thing in the story since the beginning of the game. Our first mention of them as an actual means of combat is by Sherlock Holmes in Camelot. He does not have an explanation for her being able to use them, and changes the subject when Ritsuka asks. He later claims that they are just a Chaldea system after being overwritten by the impossible self to serve Chaldea. Said version admits to getting his knowledge from Chaldea’s files… Those files that in the same chapter he is summoned, were doctored by the staff in the prologue to say “this amateur Master we’ve been relying on was never more than a way to maintain servant contracts.” 

In arc 2, her summons come up more frequently. Edmond Dantes in her dream during LB2, remarks that she found the power to summon her heroic spirits even within a dream, and claims that it must mean Ritsuka’s sense of self has grown stronger. Da Vinci in Atlantis claims that despite not being able to connect to a leyline, the combat summons still function. In Avalon le Fae they are talked about more, with Ritsuka even lending some of her simple summons to the literal pseudo-servant of Odin and Cu Chulainn. Odin, by the way, struggles to maintain the summons with his own magical energy- only able to do so for one fight. A literal God merged with Cu fucking Chulainn and he barely manages to last one fight while using them. Those summons are again referenced by Da Vinci in Tunguska as “Ritsuka’s simple summons” on multiple occasions and they are a key part of their strategy. In Traum it’s used as her cover for being a Caster, and multiple characters remark on how impressive they are. Lostbelt seven speaks for itself. Every chapter, and even a lot of events since Avalon le Fae have directly referenced the gameplay as a canon part of the character and story. It might have been gameplay in early Arc 1, but they’ve clearly made it a cannon part of the character since then, and as such it needs to have answers.

So what are the simple summons? They are often referred to as shadow servants, but if they are any weaker like the ones we see in Fuyuki, it’s not by much. Those shadows are not bound by what heroic spirits are available- there is literally a shot in the Arc 2 part 2 trailer where Ritsuka is using two Da Vinci Rider’s against the Apostles of the Foreign God and Ritsuka can use Mash in Avalon le Fae when she is missing with amnesia. They can use noble phantasms unrestricted, and again, the characters often believe that the simple summons are their most effective weapon. They use them as their trump card even. When Kirschtaria claims that Ritsuka can beat him without any assistance, he is likely claiming that her simple summons are that strong, and crediting her ability to command them to her. Ritsuka’s ability to summon these servants is not affected much by if she’s connected to a leyline yet (Orleans does it blatantly, and also LB4 it’s the fight before the Leyline she starts summoning them), if she has a connection to Chaldea (Shimousa/Heian-kyo), if Chaldea has no power (Avalon le Fae), if Mash is there (Again, Avalon le Fae) and even if the world itself has a throne of heroes (In SIN, Ritsuka gains the ability to summon six in section two! The throne does not exist in that Lostbelt until the end of section 9). 

There has been no one or any circumstance with the ability to limit Ritsuka’s summons in a truly debilitating manner at any point in the game. The game is clearly exploring the simple summons more lately, and will realistically provide an answer for why/how they work, if they haven’t already. Zolgen’s initial theories were things I had considered before. I was stuck on the Reality Marble train of thought until midway through LB7, before moving on to what I actually think is almost certainly correct when OC Prologue came out. I hinted at it a bit throughout this, but I’d argue my hinting was a lot less blatant than Traum and parts of Avalon le Fae, so don’t think anyone not caught up on JP will read it as spoilers, and most people on JP seem to somehow miss the fact that they’ve explicitly stated how it works. If any JP people want the full explanation, feel free to ask in the comments. 

The ability to summon multiple servants is exclusively a Ritsuka and the Master of Traum thing, even outside of the simple summons. The Crypters with the same system were explicitly only supposed to summon one servant as part of team-A, and even had their class assigned before hand. They were supposed to have Mash with the shield as part of that team, but one was still the plan. We also know that Chaldea had not summoned a heroic spirit with the FATE system until after Ritsuka was the last master left. Aside from Grand Order, we have the double battles Grail War of Fate/Lost Einherjar where there are two holy grails and eight servants across four masters. And in Fate/Extella the Regalia is an artifact that controls the Moon Cell and allows for a servant to command other servants. They are sort of implied to actually be Hakuno’s servants, but it’s not explicit. Those are the only times that to the best of my knowledge, we see someone summon multiple servants. Kirschtaria maybe can count as well, but the only one he summoned and successfully materialized is Caenis- Dioscuri and Odysseus were part of the Lostbelt initially and forged a contract with him. I have no idea if Atlas counts given that he was inside of a tree and did nothing but die. 

The command spells of Ritsuka do canonically regenerate, that’s not a gameplay thing either, it’s just complicated. When Chaldea is offline in Avalon le Fae, Ritsuka regenerates all of her command spells in a second, just so she can use three on Mash at once to fend off the Norwich calamity. Later in Avalon le Fae, without returning to the border, she explicitly has three again. Yet, in chapters like Olympus, Ritsuka only has three. So how does that work? Bad/inconsistent writing? Kadoc gives us a possible answer in Traum when he observes the function of the servants there in section two. “Though unlike normal command spells, they were only meant for support, just like the Master of Chaldea’s. They had just enough magical energy to let them use their noble phantasm at a moment’s notice.” Kadoc has literally never been wrong ever. 

The command spells of the Master of all the servants in Traum regenerate every battle, but are more limited in use having the same functions as Ritsuka’s gameplay ones. While it hasn’t been explicitly stated, I think it’s likely that Ritsuka has two types of command spells. Support and normal as Kadoc explained. The ones used in combat for simple things regenerate, but the ones used as full command spells- to teleport a servant, make Spartacus fly, or as ammunition for the black barrel amongst other things can not. They are the same command spells, but how they are used effect if they return. JP Explanation of Simple Summons from aimen impaired