I think Hugo saving Rutee should throw her right back in the can't-figure-out-how-I'm-feeling-about-ANYTHING zone, especially since she's been struggling with how she feels about Leon after his death.
Leon died believing that his life was super fucked because of his dad. He didn't get to find out that his dad was possessed.
Rutee would know this. And Rutee would know that Hugo has spent the past 16 years watching his son get jerked around and mistreated and threatened and be sent to his death.
And Hugo never broke through to help Leon, his son who he watched grow up.
But he did for Rutee, his daughter who he never got the chance to know.
I think there'd be some strange guilt from that. "Why me? Why not him?" and "Maybe Leon could have survived if you'd spent this effort on him instead." Maybe there'd even be some wondering if he even wanted to. Maybe it didn't matter that Leon never learned that his father was possessed, because maybe even the real Hugo didn't really care about him.
Whatever conclusion she comes to is just the one that's most comforting, because any answers died with Hugo.
(Just for the record, I do believe Hugo probably tried his best, and it was just everything compounded on top of each-other that let him give that one last push. I really can't imagine what it must have been like for him to watch everything happen at 'his own' hand, especially in continuities where Mictlan has made Leon's life a lot worse.)
Leon kept asking Marian to join him for meals and tea, but he never offered to help her with any of her tasks until the shopping scene? I feel like that's a subtle nod that his affections for her are mostly self-centered. Along with disregarding her wishes regarding her hostage status, I wonder how much he actually considers her feelings and what she wants? I wonder how much of the real Marian Leon even knows, too? Despite her genuine kindness for him, she keeps a certain distance between them that he doesn't seem to notice.
魔人闇 also kind of makes me feel uncomfortable in that regard, too. He normally says the attack name fondly and gently (except in RM where he's really angry for some reason). But. It feels like such a villainous thing. Pure darkness. Demonic Darkness. Darkness is not always evil, but. The DC manga does sort of frame it that way, and as something that needs to be broken. It's the attack he first defeats Stahn with, and it's also the final attack that he ever uses, and Stahn cuts through it with one of his two light element attacks, 灼光拳. As Leon's reeling, he thinks of it as radiant and warm, internally picturing it as a small flame in his hands, marveling at it and holding it close. When he reaches out, he thinks of the group as illuminating.
Disconnected, barely coherent Destiny x Zestiria AU/crossover thoughts from over the past year. Partially from DMs, but mostly not. Maybe I should have polished them, but I really didn't feel like it. It was either post them like this or not at all.
Spoilers for Zestiria, obviously. Less obviously, some spoilers for Berseria near the end of the post.
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Okay so Leon being a seraph might work out fine for crossover and slot way too easily into parallels with Mikleo lmao
Symonne is an evil little prick, so I figure seraphim can be as evil and selfish and corrupted as they want to be as long as they have a vessel.
So Mictlan is a seraph who'd also like to wipe out humanity. Motives no more complex than his normal ones. Aetherians Seraphim rule and Er'thers humans drool. Though I guess optionally you could give him some desire to save fellow seraphim from humans' malevolence, it'd probably still mostly just be about superiority bullshit. Also he is ancient and stupid powerful.
Hugo is one of the previous Shepherds. What little we know of him in canon, he seems to also have been a very kind (though weak-willed) person, so maybe he was also exceptionally pure.
Since we don't know shit about Prime Lords, there's nothing to prove that an evil bastard like Mictlan couldn't be one. So he was Hugo's. While armatized, Mictlan takes full control and mortally wounds Chris and the newly born Emilio. Hugo, as pure as he is, doesn't corrupt, but gives up. There is no fight for control. So Mictlan's form as everyone else knows it is a permanent armatization (explaining why he's blond, idk), though most humans still only see Hugo. He uses Hugo's body to be able to communicate directly with humans and his good reputation as a Shepherd to [404 rest of evil plan not found i have no idea how he'd plan to wipe out humanity without also triggering the generation of enough malevolence to fuck over most seraphim since vessels seem to be in short supply.]
And from there, either
A) As in Destiny proper (or Drama CD specific), Chris managed to get Rutee to a safe place and returned to be with her son in her last moments. They're both reborn as seraphim, with Marian actually being Chris reborn, with her only memory being her love for (her) children. Mictlan gives the reborn Emilio the true name "Duoqoi Maeve" ("Leon the Bruised"). Marian doesn't recognize Leon as her own, but loves him all the same. She always feels like something (Rutee) is missing, though. Mictlan keeps them both around, trying to raise Leon with all his own beliefs and as many insecurities as he can without overwhelming him into becoming useless. With Leon being both under Mictlan's thumb and a seraph, he's considerably more isolated than in Destiny proper and actually follows Mictlan's orders of his own will rather than at the threat of Marian's life. He's ordered to join the Shepherd as a Sub Lord and manipulate Stahn's journey to suit Mictlan's plans. Over the journey with Stahn, the small doubts he had in all he was taught to believe by Mictlan become bigger and he isn't so sure he wants to go through with the plan anymore.
Optional bit for A: Maybe Leon's told (lied to) that he was reborn as a seraph as a result of an oath that Chris made before she died?
B) Chris managed to get away with Rutee and Emilio, and Rutee somehow got separated from them. Chris and Emilio both die close to Stahn's village. Emilio is the only one to be reborn as a seraph. He and Stahn grow up together, and he's given the name Leon. He doesn't have a true name until he becomes a Sub Lord, where he names himself "Kovmekh Maeve" ("Leon in the Sunlight").
C) Emilio wasn't newly born and was instead around 3 or 4 years old. His only memories are his mother, his sister, and his name. He was the one to get separated from them when escaping Mictlan, and died close to Stahn's village. His vague memory of his mother getting hurt has him pretty sure that she and his sister are dead. He and Stahn grow up together. He doesn't have a true name until he becomes a Sub Lord, where he names himself "Kovmekh Leumei" ("Emilio in the Sunlight").
Optional bit for C: Later on during his and Stahn's journey, they come across Marian, who he mistakes for Chris. She's only seen at a distance, visibly very happy. Emilio decides not to talk to her, figuring if she's that happy, he shouldn't complicate her life, especially since they have an important job to do. By the time Stahn convinces him to go to her, she's already gone. It's left ambiguous whether she was a human or a seraph, and at this point there hasn't been confirmation that Chris died, so for all they know, it could have been her, a look-alike, or even her reborn seraph. Emilio says it would have been an embarrassing scene anyway if she turned out to be the real thing, and not even be able to sense him.
Optional bit for B or C: Not a concrete decision yet, but pretty sure that Stahn's village shouldn't have any other seraphim in it.
That'd put Leon as the perpetually isolated stranger with probably only the Ailerons (or only Stahn?) to really interact with. Then again, Leon's also enough of a brat that he probably wouldn't let himself stay unknown when people whisper about Stahn being too old for an imaginary friend. He can still interact with the world, after all, and he wouldn't have had any other seraphim to instill in him the notion that he shouldn't. So that village at least has been made to believe in seraphim just from Leon's bad attitude. (Though he'd probably only do this in this village since it's Home. Elsewhere, he recognizes the utility in being invisible, but he's still probably too good deep down to think to abuse it outside of eavesdropping and going places he shouldn't be allowed.)
There'd also be no seraphim to teach him about the differences between human and seraphim, so not only would it be a bit awkward growing up, but it'd also draw direct contrast between Sorey and Mikleo's situation where Sorey was a human raised among seraphim, and here Leon is a seraph raised among humans.
Another optional bit for A (for contrast with the above optional bit for B or C): Stahn's village does have a few seraphim hanging around, who bless its farmland. His village is one that believes in seraphim simply for that bounty of the land. Stahn's resonance is naturally high enough to hear them, and he sees flickers of them as he grows older since that's additional time he's been exposed to them, but he's not able to see them fully until the start of his journey.
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Leon starting off as a seraph would also solve the glaring issue of, if Leon was a human and squire, why he wouldn't be a damn geyser of malevolence from all Mictlan's put him through. (Though the inconsistency of how malevolence generation works could still have it explained away by supplementary material that still claims that he has "a pure heart". (or that could also be countered by Famitsu's guide that describes his heart as "kind and coldblooded, and too sick to be soothed".) Sure he does what he does out of love for Marian, but we've seen how it eats at him; and he says he has no regrets, but we've seen how that's bullshit. He is not as self-assured as Rose or any of the villainous humans in Zestiria who don't turn into hellions.)
The hard part about Leon starting the story as a seraph though is…
that means no Chaltier, which means Leon should probably be an earth seraph so he can keep all his earth spells, but that means his hair would have to fade to orange and THAT SOUNDS WEIRD. I guess he could be a dark seraph that just minors in earth, the way the others have spells that combo with other elements. Fading to purple doesn't sound as weird. (I don't think Symonne's element is ever discussed, but her hair fades to purple, and there is the one example of non-standard element in Zenrus, who is lightning, which some Tales titles equate to light. So maybe Leon's allowed to be special like that.)
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If they grow up together as kids, Stahn probably spends a long time studying the ancient tongue so that he can give Leon a name. That show of effort doesn't become apparent until they've grown a bit and Leon knows how difficult it is for Stahn to focus on books.
In scenarios where they don't grow up together, he probably just gets help from Dymlos or the rest of his teammates. It makes for awkward pact ceremonies. Or maybe after his first squire complains about it, he starts thinking of names for most people he meets and asking for help translating them ahead of time.
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[This thought didn't end up going anywhere, but could be neat]
Chris dies during childbirth with Leon, and some event leads to Hugo dying not long after. Hugo is reborn as a seraph, Mictlan, with his important memory being "my wife is dead because of my son" with no context for it. He fills in the gaps himself, which is where his general mistreatment of Leon is going to come from.
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If Leon starts as a human, we've got 2 paths to take. OG and DC.
If OG, I don't think Leon can be a squire. He'd have too much malevolence from how his life's been going the past few years. It'd culminate in him becoming a hellion that Stahn needs to purify. The default route would be that Stahn is unable to purify him. If Stahn is able to take all of it on (going off of the anime's rules), he would be uniquely familiar with Leon's life in a way not even Chaltier is.
In this case, Chal would definitely be using the sword as his vessel. He'd need a vessel not only to be around Hugo, but to be around Leon.
Since Leon can't be a squire unless he's purified, Stahn might not have access to an earth seraph unless he purifies Leon. Chal is only concerned with Leon, so he has no desire to help Stahn on his own, and Leon wouldn't be loaning Chal out.
Or alternatively, Chal becoming a Sub Lord is part of Mictlan's plan—since Chal is loyal to Leon, and he has Leon doing whatever he asks for Marian. Plan being to have Chal assume control of either Stahn or one of his squires through armatization. So Stahn would have access to an earth seraph until he fails to purify Leon.
Well, whatever the case, I don't know how to treat Leon's high malevolence as a party member. Maybe something like Maltran where he's learned to hide it somehow? idk, Maltran is also an unexplained mess.
If DC, he can be a squire right away, but he might be toeing the line of corruption when Mictlan decides to reap all he's been sowing.
The name Stahn gives him here would probably be the same as the ones I mentioned as a seraph. Kovmekh Maeve (Leon in the Sunlight) as a squire, and then Kovmekh Leumei (Emilio in the Sunlight) when reborn as a seraph. ... Or in an OG scenario where Leon can be a squire right away, maybe Leon is his first squire and he doesn't know the ancient tongue at all, so he's at a loss for what name to give him. And since Mictlan has to have a hand in them working together, he'd probably be there for the ritual. Maybe he'd offer Duoqoi Maeve (Leon the Bruised) without telling him what it means. Though I guess the party members who do know the ancient tongue would be suspicious then 'cause why the hell would you name someone that. Might be able to frame it as a sad observation of the unfortunate child he's been sponsoring rather than something malicious, I guess.
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("no, leon waking up as a seraph has a happy ending," I said to myself. but then)
Kind of. Maybe. Maybe not. The more I think about it, maybe the more frustrated he'd get. Because there's very few actual memories, but a lot of reactions and feelings.
Knows a name, knows it belongs to this person, feels both at ease and unsatisfied, but not having the context for why makes it… not great.
Wanting the same things as before but with different reservations about them. Feeling dictated by someone else even if he doesn't feel like a different person, and wondering if he seems like a different person from the outside. Worrying that he can't just pick up where he left off but on a rickety foundation—that he's a breathing ghost among the living, only hurting those who knew him by being Not Quite. ("If you hold me, are you holding me or someone else? Are you going to be mourning someone that you perceive as not here anymore? Am I my own replacement?")
I suppose that comes to how others feel about those who are reborn. Even if they had all the same memories, would they be the same person? Or would they be seen as a clone of sorts? A copy that isn't "real". I find it hard to believe that everyone would see someone reborn as a seraph the same way, including the seraph themselves.
Maybe it'd help if I had a list of everything he'd remember under different circumstances… I should write one…
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Or what if the memories kept are foundational rather than cherished memories. Leon only remembers what Mictlan put him through and literally nothing else.
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[From DMs]
ugh ; ; Thinking of Destiny Zestiria crossover where Leon dies and is reborn as a seraph mid story
It's difficult to think of how it turns out. Because Judas is a thing, it feels like it should follow whatever the heck his deal is. How much should he remember? How much should he want to cast aside or hold on to his old self? How should those who used to know him perceive him? Does it match with how he perceives himself? Is there resentment?
I still don't know shit about Judas, so I can't even use him as a guideline. Maybe that's a good thing, for creativity's sake? But should the parallel be broken?
Obviously I don't want it to be a sad outcome…
Having so few examples of humans reborn as seraphim really doesn't help. Yeah we have 2 whole party members who did it but they were literally babies and fetuses when it happened so it's useless data lol There really is only Seres/Celica and the few words Lailah and Edna had to say. That is not a good sample size :\
I GUESS that opens everything to be a sliding scale :\ so it could be 100% perfect all memories feelings intact and no perception of him as a different person but that feels too clean! I want some conflict but what would be the least ouchie for me!! I don't!! know!!!
[Please don't tell me what Judas's deal is. I want to find out when I get to play D2 in 800 years.]
So. Leon can play bass guitar and piano, according to Rays.
Orchestra illustrations probably aren't indicative of which instruments each character can play. A lot of those illustrations include characters who live in places and under circumstances where it's pretty unlikely that they would have been able to even touch those instruments, let alone learn to play them well. So, can Stahn play.... clarinet? Probably not...
...
But what if he could
There aren't many duets with clarinet and bass guitar, but here's a good one. I think the two have some good potential together that hasn't been capitalized on since most go for double bass (the big, standing one that looks like but is not a cello) instead.
And since Leon is already proficient with the piano, let's go for some piano and clarinet duets too...
...if Leon was excited to have Marian hear him in a band, I wonder how he'd feel about performing for just Marian, with Stahn? Marian was so supportive of his bond with Stahn, that I think she'd be really excited to hear them play together. Even if Leon said he didn't want to (embarrassed?), since a duet with Stahn would be so much more personal than in a band with people he hardly knows, maybe Marian's excitement would convince him to.
Since he whipped Ix, Mileena and Asbel into shape for the band performance, he could probably teach Stahn a song, too. Or would he write one? If they're at the point where Marian wants to hear them play together, he probably has enough feelings about more than just Marian to fit into a whole lot of music... Maybe she'd ask him to write something, and be vague enough about it that he doesn't feel pressured or weird about writing it about his journey to recognize and accept these friendships, these hands that have helped him. A song that isn't just about Stahn, but still clearly centers on him a lot with exactly how the two instruments trade off the lead melody, and how the clarinet's parts never stray too far into something that sounds out of Stahn's character.
And Marian would cry with quiet joy as she listens and watches. Maybe the piano lessons, much like dance lessons, hadn't been something Leon wanted initially, but found a use for. The piano is a great solo instrument, so of course it's a good choice for Leon. He's been good at it, but it always had a melancholy feeling, even while playing songs that he said he wrote while thinking of things that made him happy (Marian). She'd have never heard him play with anyone before. Finally hearing his piano weaving and harmonizing with someone else is so much more beautiful, even during the more bitter parts.
So I finally watched the event that this CG is from
And it's so cute?? HMPH NO he DOESN'T want to be a part of your stupid band—until he realizes it's a chance for Marian to watch him be cool, then it's full speed ahead, this has to be a perfect performance or else he won't help them.
The implication is that he also grew to want to do it on his own, not just because Marian would be watching. Which is also heehuee
This also gives us some Leon Lore. He composed the song that they play (in 2 days), and demonstrated the melody for them on piano before they got to practicing. He also picked up on a mistake Ix made on guitar that nobody else (besides Ix) did.
So he already knew how to play piano and read and write sheet music prior to this. I wonder if he's composed any other songs, too...?
Don't know if he already knew how to play bass prior to this, but he was already playing it very well by the time he wrote the song. He's an overachieving character (and this isn't a super serious event), so it wouldn't be surprising if he picked it up and mastered it in 2 days lol (Plus every musician I've ever known seems to be able to pick up another entirely unrelated instrument they've never touched before and play it decently really fast... So I guess that's not even so abnormal aaha... sob...)
He immediately picked bass to play in the band because he decided it was the backbone and he could lead the others (Mileena, Ix and Asbel) best from that role, while acknowledging that the lead guitar is where most eyes and ears are going to be. And while he wasn't willing to participate in an imperfect performance, he was eventually willing to rewrite the harder section of the song a bit to make it easier for the others to play. (Which they refused and just practiced harder)
I think it's significant that he chose a supporting role rather than the lead. Yes, his reasoning was that he could lead and instruct them best as the bassist, but playing a supporting role when he's used to being a solo act or directly in the lead... I don't know, it warms me a bit.
Mileena wasn't satisfied with the lyrics she wrote for it because she felt like the feelings they conveyed only fit her instead of the entire band, but when Leon found her first draft, he decided they should use them. (...Perhaps they fit more than just her?)
And of course all their friends are in the audience. Stahn, Rutee, Kyle and Reala are out there cheering for him real loud, and really proud of him and the others.
And of course, here's the song, subtitled in English by the lovely Seine. In-universe, the credits are this:
Lyrics & Vocals: Mileena (& Sara in the duet version)
Composition & Bass: Leon
Guitar: Ix
Drums: Asbel
Leon's background with music would be nice to explore properly. He's too good at too many things... so I like to think he's bad at singing. (even though half the cast, including him, got short character songs)
Midorikawa (Leon's voice actor) sounds nice, but he isn't especially good at singing. It's actually one of the things I like most about his voice. Despite it, and despite his range being pretty narrow (and several productions refusing to accommodate it properly), he still gets to sing a lot, and it's still enjoyable.
So, yeah. Leon himself not being good at singing would be a good trait to me. Not tone deaf, not outright unpleasant to listen to, but very notably not being good at it.
I'd also like to see what kind of lyricist he'd be... Would he be good or bad at that? Or would he perhaps be good at writing poetry but not lyrics that flow well? Or would he be bad at all of it? I think it'd be good if he was bad at it, too. He's not good at understanding his own feelings, so I don't think he could put much to paper well either.
So all he has as a creative outlet is the music itself. I think that fits well enough!
(...all of that said, wow, I absolutely hate the localization of Leon's dialogue in Rays, just like I hate it in Crestoria. It's so wordy. I know his manner of speech is difficult to pin down perfectly (and I find myself making him too eloquent sometimes too), but like... they localize his dialogue like they're intentionally trying to code him as upperclass englishman. British accent Leon lmao
Sorry, I gotta bring up how awful it is any chance I get, on the off chance it helps any future localized or fan-translated material not be like this)
(That CG is also another instance of Leon having ~full lips~ lol)
I wonder if the change to Leon's situation (no longer being under duress prior to the start of the game) was considered necessary by the writers because of the softer angle they were taking with him.
Because this new take on them had Stahn even more in tune with Leon than the last few adaptations and it might not have been believable that he didn't see something was wrong.
Or because they wanted to lean into Leon warming up to the group, and they weren't confident that they could satisfyingly write the resulting dilemma.
But dang, that dilemma would have been all the better.
(I forget if I already wrote about this here or not)
While playing DC, since I didn't know they'd retconned this, I was seeing a buildup that wasn't there. What I was expecting to happen (and what they could absolutely still do in a future retelling) was for the tipping point to be in the throne room after recovering the Eye. That Leon was pretty much on our side (since he agreed to try to destroy the Eye, as opposed to sabotaging the swordians like before) and anticipating Stahn being there in Darilsheid from then on as an ally that he would have gone to for help—and then he's thrown right back into isolation by Stahn turning the position down. That he would spiral from there, sure that there truly wasn't any way out of this.
There was security in Leon's life until Marian was made a hostage. He probably hadn't felt unsafe until that moment, but what a few years those must have been. Knowing that the eyes of his now known tormentor could be watching him from every angle no matter where he goes. Someone whose authority and skill he's grown up admiring and now knows he'll never get out from under. He may measure up well to the rest of the world on his own merits, but in the one spot that matters, he'll never be enough. He'll never be good enough, he'll never be strong enough for this enemy. A place that was stifling but secure is now, fittingly, a lion's den.
2 years of that may not be much in the grand scheme of things, but even if he wasn't still so young, it's more than enough to teach and change you. Perhaps he has a lasting paranoia even if things work out alright. Always looking over his shoulder. Even though he's so arrogant, maybe there's still a line he won't step out of.
All that to say that even if he has a personality and a history that, on the surface, don't seem like they'd lend themselves to feeling perpetually unsafe, I still think he'd find himself unintentionally melting into those who want to protect him. Not wanting to be looked down on, not wanting to validate those feelings of inadequacy and weakness by liking a sense of safety and security brought by someone that isn't himself. But if he's at the point where someone has wiggled in there and can make him feel safe, maybe he'd also be close to being able to embrace it.
In a more literal and immediate sense, he at least feels secure enough around Stahn to give him his back. That isn't something that's purely about respecting and having faith in Stahn's ability, but entrusting his safety to Stahn's character, which was shown to him directly to treasure him as a person rather than an asset.
But it is more a sense of security and safety rather than being protected. It's acknowledging the places where he is lacking and letting them be covered. It's letting any doubt dissolve because if there's a chance that he can't do it alone, he can absolutely do it with this support. Uncertainty turned to certainty. A one-man army turned into an unstoppable force. He's amazing on his own, but he's invincible like this.
If I had to explain the accepting of that sense of safety visually, he would have his back settled into someone's embrace while brandishing his sword and staring down his nose.
I guess Leon wearing the same clothes in Crestoria could count toward him liking them. But also maybe they were suggested to him by some staff or something after leaving to become a knight. Or maybe Lilith made them as a going away present. It'd be nice to know what he wore as a kid there, along with the circumstances that led him to live with the Ailerons. Did he come from a well off family originally? Was he able to bring more than the clothes on his back? Even if he was, I doubt they would have fit for long. So he probably wore commoner clothes most of the time until he left. But what did he LIKE!!! UGH!!
