hey um just a request, but you seem to use dfab and dmab often in weird contexts when you could just say women and men. e.g.: "any mlm that is shipped by more dfab people than dmab people." as a nonbinary trans person, a sex assigned at birth is not relevant most of the time, so could you maybe use it less when it isn't necessary?
thanks for letting me know your thoughts, anon. I’m pretty sure that particular example comes from the ‘my objections to anti-shipping’ post, which is pretty old now (though I reblogged it from myself today). I remember re-reading that recently and thinking ‘ah, I don’t think this is the best use of these phrases’ but I forgot to edit the original post anyway (classic adhd move, tbh). But still, it’s not the only example of me using descriptors that are kinda ‘eh’.
I’m sorry that my word choice here was inappropriate and may have made you feel uncomfortable.
my use of descriptors like afab, amab, intersex*, genderqueer, cis, nb, trans, male, female, woman, man, etc is constantly evolving as I try to be precise but also inclusive when I talk about experiences that are affected by gender (which, let’s be real, is a huge number of experiences).
under the cut I’ll go into more detail about why I think picking the right combination of gender descriptors is both really important to me and also difficult to get right without causing anyone harm.
(built in tw: descriptions of transphobia/transmisogyny and mentions of the harm it causes.)
because my blog deals almost entirely in fandom experiences and how they are influenced by negative outside factors, I believe it’s very important to address both personal gender identity and how gender identity is perceived/treated by others (especially bigots/ignorant people) both currently and over the course of their lives. but that gets very complicated, very fast.
For example, every gender experience will be different from one another even if they share aspects of their gender identity:
- even though all cis and trans women are women, cis women and trans women will have very different experiences of womanhood.
- to dissect this down even further, a trans person who realizes they are trans very early in life and is able to live as their true gender will have a different gender experience from a trans person who doesn’t realize they are trans until later in life, or who realizes they are trans early in life but is forcibly misgendered by people around them, or a person who changes from a non-transgender identity to a transgender identity as an adult, etc etc.
Relatedly, a person’s life experiences are also deeply affected by what gender other people assign them regardless of their consent:
- If someone of any gender is raised under the assumption they are a particular gender because of their agab, they will share certain experiences with other people who are assigned the same gender at birth. otoh, how it affects them will depend in part on what their actual gender is, or if their gender identity changes down the line.
- obviously, non-cis people have to contend with a variety of nastiness that cis people don’t have to deal with. I won’t go into detail b/c nobody needs that grossness, but suffice to say: TERFs, right-wing activist groups like FRC, and transphobes in general make non-cis lives particularly difficult, up to and including getting non-cis people killed. in particular transgender people (but this also affects other non-cis identities).
- other forms of misgendering also cause harm, whether deliberate or not. from outright bigotry to people who think there are only two genders out of ignorance to people who use misgendering as a weapon to accidental assumptions of the wrong gender, it’s shit, and everyone will have a different experience with these issues based on a shitton of variables.
- and if all of the above wasn’t enough, gender experiences are heavily influenced by cultural background, the political climate, racism, sexual orientation, and on and on and on.
(and regarding my * on intersex above the cut: i am not intersex, and while I have read/heard a variety of experiences from personal anecdotal accounts by intersex people I generally try to avoid commenting on it from lack of knowledge (particularly because some intersex people have expressed they do not view ‘intersex’ as a gender descriptor but rather as a medical state.))
These are all things I try to bear in mind when making a post on tumblr that references gender. here’s an example of the kind of internal debates that come up:
the Japanese word ‘fujoshi’ is gendered, referring specifically to women who enjoy/create BL & queer-eye fictional m/m relationships. It carries this gendered connotation both when referring to a particular fan experience* and when it’s used as an insult in English-speaking fandom. What gender descriptors do I use to refer to people who are affected by this?
(*in this case I’m referring to using ‘fujoshi’ to describe a specific fan experience in English-speaking fandom/primarily US experience. By virtue of being a different culture than Japan, the experience described by ‘fujoshi’ will necessarily be different.)
as a fan experience, I’d say ‘fujoshi’ can encompass the experiences of women and/or afab people (particularly afab people who were raised under the assumption they were a woman whether or not this was true) who choose to describe themselves as fujoshi.
women: encompassing trans and cis women. (trans women may or may not share the experience of being recognized as a woman/identifying as a woman while being raised, but they are still just as affected all their lives by messages aimed at women.)
and/or afab people, particularly if they were raised under the assumption of being a female whether they were or not: afab people who are raised as women are also affected all their lives by messages aimed at women, though that experience is likely quite different from gender identity to gender identity.
who choose to describe themselves as fujoshi: a person who was raised under the assumption they are a woman may share certain experiences with other afab people, but even if they experienced the same messages/similar experiences as other afab people who chose to identify as ‘fujoshi’, that doesn’t mean they fall under the descriptor of ‘fujoshi’. I’m particularly thinking of trans men and nb people here - unless any one individual says differently about themselves, I think calling a trans man or person off the gender binary a ‘fujoshi’ would be misgendering them - but there may be many examples of people who don’t relate to the gendered aspect of ‘fujoshi’ for many reasons.
as an insult, I’d say ‘fujoshi’ is almost always a mess of gender essentialism and misgendering. It refers to those that are perceived as women by the person slinging the insult. ‘Perceived women’ often include cis women and/or afab people of any gender, frequently including trans men, and occasionally encompasses trans women who the insulter sees as ‘passing’ as a cis woman.
perceived women: people that the insulter and/or ignorant portions of society would categorize as a woman without the person’s consent and regardless of accuracy.
cis women and/or afab people of any gender: a gender essentialist views gender as being synonymous with genitals (intersex people frequently either being categorized by the insulter separately or by whatever HRT/surgery was chosen for them). (in practice radfem ideology has the same effect, but they argue that gender doesn’t exist at all (only biological sex does).)
frequently including trans men: depending on how far the insulter is willing to go with their misgendering & often influenced by whether or not the insulter perceives a trans man as ‘passing’ as a cis man. (this may be affected by whether or not a trans man has undergone HRT/surgery depending on the opinion of the insulter.)
occasionally encompasses trans women who the insulter sees as ‘passing’ as a cis woman: because if they ‘pass’ they may be perceived as a ‘real woman’ (ugh ugh ugh). (this may also be affected by HRT/surgery depending on the opinion of the insulter.)
and now that I’ve settled on these descriptions, how do I condense them to something easy to read without distracting from the points I’m trying to make?
as an experience: “women and/or afab people”, maybe? perhaps “women and/or some afab people”?as an insult: “perceived women”, maybe?
(and I’m happy to take constructive criticism on this. I’d prefer it be sent not on anon so we can privately discuss it rather than doing it in posts on this blog (and if you don’t want to discuss your thoughts, just want to share and go, feel free to let me know - I won’t demand your time.))
in short: I think about a lot of stuff every time I pick gender descriptors on this blog. This doesn’t mean I always make the right choices - far from it - and there may not even be a truly ‘right’ choice. But I’m always seeking to be as inclusive and honest as I can be.
(PS: I don’t talk about my gender status here much other than to say ‘i’m afab’ because while I don’t presently identify as cis, I’m murky on it myself still & I don’t want my gender identity to affect whether or not ppl speak up about their opinions about my use of gender descriptors.)
A full list of the pronouns and gender/sex identity words I've created in my fictional language. Please tell me if I forgot anything, left anything out, or wasn't clear enough with my definitions. I'll do my best to include/fix anything that my friends and followers want me to address.
Pronouns and Identities
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· II (ee)
· Indicates the self. Performs the same function as the English pronouns “I” and “me.”
· Xii (yee)
· Indicates a directly addressed second party. Performs the same function as the English Pronoun “you.”
***
· Paesah (pay-shaw)
· Indicates someone whose gender is unknown, undeclared, or unimportant to their identity as a person. Those the English language would refer to as “agender” or “genderless” will often use this pronoun to describe themselves. In the English language, this pronoun literally translates to “person” and is used interchangeably to describe both someone’s gender and their status as a thinking, feeling individual.
· Thaesy (thay-shy)
· Indicates someone whose gender identity falls somewhere in the feminine section of the gender spectrum. The English language would refer to these individuals as “girls” or “women.”
· Paesy (pay-shy)
· Indicates someone whose gender identity falls in or near the very center of the gender spectrum. Some androgynous individuals use this pronoun to describe themselves. The English language would refer to this identity as the mixed — yet distinct— “third gender” which is somewhere “between” the masculine and feminine areas of the gender spectrum.
· Kaesy (kay-shy)
· Indicates someone whose gender identity falls somewhere in the masculine section of the gender spectrum. The English language would refer to these individuals as “boys” or “men.”
· Eisy (eye-shy)
· Indicates someone whose gender identity is experienced and expressed in multiple locations on the gender spectrum simultaneously. Both biologically and mentally intersex individuals often use this pronoun to describe themselves. It is also used by those who would, in the English language, be referred to as “bigender” or polygender” as a means to describe themselves.
· Rensy (ren-shy)
· Indicates someone whose gender identity is at a solid place on the gender spectrum, but has an important connection to another category. Those who have altered their gender over time, referred to in the English language as being “transgender,” will occasionally use this pronoun as a prefix* to express the importance of both their past experience(s) and their present Identity. Individuals who would be referred to in the English language as “demigender” will often use this pronoun as a suffix* to more clearly explain the (slightly) uneven duality of their identity.
· Baesy (bay-shy)
· Indicates someone whose gender identity is fluid; sliding back and forth from one section of the gender spectrum to another over time, rather than either remaining static or transitioning in more traditionally linear fashion. The English language would refer to these individuals as being “genderfluid” or “gendervariant.”
· Nahsy (naw-shy)
· Indicates someone whose gender is nonexistent and/or unimportant to their identity as a person. Some of those the English language would refer to as “agender” or “genderless” will occasionally use this pronoun as an alternative means of describing themselves (see: paesah).
***
· Cysy (sy-shy)
· Indicates someone whose bodily structure, in some capacity or other, allows for the creation, bearing, and/or birth of physical offspring. Bodily features typically include such attributes as enlarged breasts and/or a vaginal opening. The English language would refer to these individuals as “females” or “women.” This term is used separately from the identification and/or discussion of gender, and usually isn’t used at all except in either medical or physically intimate situations.
· Dhysy (dye-shy)
· Indicates someone whose bodily structure, in some capacity or other, allows for the creation of physical offspring. Bodily features typically include such attributes as a penis and/or set of testicles. The English language would refer to these individuals as “males” or “men.” This term is used separately from the identification and/or discussion of gender, and usually isn’t used at all except in either medical or physically intimate situations.
· Iisy (ee-shy)
· Indicates someone whose bodily structure, in some capacity or other, is capable of both behaviors which the English language would describe as “female” and those it would describe as “male.” Bodily features may include any combination of attributes such as enlarged breasts, a penis, a vaginal opening, and a set of testicles; the presence of all of the aforementioned attributes at once is also entirely possible. The English language would refer to these individuals as being biologically “intersex.” This term is used separately from the identification and/or discussion of gender, and usually isn’t used at all except in either medical or physically intimate situations.
· Faesy (fay-shy)
· Indicates someone whose bodily structure, for one reason or another, is incapable of exhibiting behaviors which the English language would describe as either “female” or “male” or “intersex.” Bodily features may include any combination of attributes such as enlarged breasts, a penis, a vaginal opening, and a set of testicles; the presence of none of the aforementioned attributes at all is entirely possible. Some sterile or otherwise infertile individuals of Cariniia will use this pronoun as a prefix* to more clearly explain the biological structure and capabilities of their body. The English language would use many different terms to refer to these individuals depending on their situation, ranging from biologically “sexless” to “sterile” to “mature” or “past the age of reproduction.” This term is used separately from the identification and/or discussion of gender, and usually isn’t used at all except in either medical or physically intimate situations.
***
*Rensy as a prefix, example: one who identifies as “renkaesy” is explaining that while they identify solidly as being in the masculine area of the gender spectrum at this point in their life, they previously identified as a different gender. This is a way of expressing the degree to which this individual values the effort it took them to get where they are today.
*Rensy as a suffix, example: one who identifies as “thaesyren” is explaining that while they identify primarily as being in the feminine area of the gender spectrum, they also identify with a secondary gender. While their secondary gender is less intense, it is distinctive enough to be an important part of their identity overall.
*Faesy as a prefix, example: one who identifies as “faethaesy” is explaining that while they identify as being in the feminine area of the gender spectrum, their body is infertile and so there are certain physical behaviors of the “female” body type of which they are incapable.
(different anon. i'm nonbinary and conservative jewish practicing.) i always took androgynos to lean more towards an intersex individual? like, i suppose it could be used to describe someone as bigender, but i always saw the definitions they listed as cis man, cis woman, dfab masc (leaning or identified), dmab femme (leaning or identified), intersex and agender. obviously that doesn't cover everyone, that's just what i got from it. just a thought.
Yes, androgynos was definitely coined with intersex individuals in mind! As such I'd definitely like to hear the opinions of intersex Jewish folks as to whether it would be appropriate for a dyadic Jewish trans person to use it? I think you and I have very similar interpretations of the 6 classical gender descriptors though, which makes me pretty excited!
hey possible trigender anon from before here! thanks a million for that link! the transtorah site is GOLD =D its just i cant really understand the difference between tumtum and Androgynos, do you know a good explanation?
Hey no problem! No kidding, transtorah is probably one of the best things that’s come into my life since I came out. Well since the classical gender descriptors listed on transtorah are from way, way, Way back in jewish history they aren’t quite like modern gender descriptors, and as such were used both for trans and intersex individuals (especially tumtum and Androgynos). However, the key difference between tumtum and Androgynos is that Androgynos individuals had both “male” and “female” characteristics (keep in mind I don’t believe in gendering genitalia at all, but this is the classical definition) while tumtum individuals had a flap of skin obscuring their sex characteristics and were perceived as unknowable or true neutral. Reformed in the context of modern transness (while still leaving them open to use by intersex Jewish people, whether cis or trans!!!), I’d guess that Androgynos could be used as androgyne or bigender while tumtum might be more suited to neutrois/agender/simply genderless identities? If anyone wants to weigh in on that, I’d love to have your thoughts!
Hey thanks for making this blog :) I'm sorry to bother you but I haven't been able to find anything on this subject anywhere else, are there historical non binary Jewish genders? Cuz sometimes I feel like I may be trigender & I'm Jewish so I was wondering if there was any name for how I'm feeling lol
