#ggpo

[vice-s-assistant]

Mother of god....

Finally, Fighting Eyes GGPO will be realized.

[heilos]

I’ve been following this game’s development for a very long time and i’m so excited to see Them's Fightin' Herds finally launch their 1.0 release! Whether or not you’re a fan of fighting games or love animation and fun character designs, please check out their latest trailer to see what the game is all about! Mane6 is a very small and passionate team of developers who have been working on this project for years and I would love more people to see their hard work coming to fruition! 

[gear-project]

ArcSystemWorks ➡️ Staying Inside on Twitter

“🌃 We felt like this couldn't wait... GUILTY GEAR XX ACCENT CORE PLUS R for Steam will be receiving it's much awaited GGPO update soon! We will be conducting public testing from October 29th. More details will be announced at a later date! #GGXXACPR”

(*cue angelic choir*)

I suppose NOW everyone and his momma wants to challenge me on Accent Core, I’m a little rusty though.

[blazehedgehog]

With EVO being online this year shouldn’t some games just get cancelled altogether because the net code won’t hold up for fair play? Esp even locally controls need to be tested prior to a match for anything like input delay.

I meant to answer this sooner, but now EVO has announced their new lineup and straight up axed Smash Bros. Ultimate, so I guess you got your answer. They also added a bunch more games in a side event of sorts, and every game there is basically using GGPO (or something like it).

I'm curious how Street Fighter V will handle since I'm pretty sure Capcom never actually fixed its net play the way people wanted it.

The point I wanted to make originally, and one that still holds water is that I guess this will be the ultimate test for some of these games. If network problems show up on "the main stage" in front of hundreds of thousands of viewers, I would expect it'd send a crystal clear message to get it fixed for real next time.

As for Smash Bros., Nintendo's had a rocky relationship with EVO anyway, so it's surprising but expected to see Ultimate get cut. I don't own Ultimate yet (not paying $60+) but watching a friend stream it, she doesn't usually have too much trouble with lag. So it getting cut out of EVO is more likely a combination of factors.

The only thing to do now is wait to see if any game accidentally shows its whole ass in front of a live audience.

[projectussle]

The Forest is Thinning...

Greetings, Tusslers! As promised last week, I’ve got (most of) a base action file done in TussleScript! I was planning on talking about that this week, but an interesting development has happened this week. In case you haven’t heard, the netcode framework GGPO has gone open-source!

If you’ve been hanging out in the Discord, I’ve brought up GGPO before, and if you’ve played online fighting games like Skullgirls, you’ll have encountered it before. Basically, GGPO is a framework for making online games that depend on strict timings less frustratingly laggy online. Basically, the system assumes your opponent will be doing whatever they’re currently doing, and whenever it actually gets the input from the opponent, it’ll “roll back” the game state to when that button should have been pressed, and then re-compute what the game should be if that had happened, then continue on to the next frame would be.

One part of this is that the game state needs to be deterministic and reversible. What this means is that every frame needs to be constructed out of things that can easily be stored and retrieved in a data structure, and that given the same inputs, the game would always play out the same. I knew this was a requirement for GGPO-style rollback netcode, so I’ve tried to make TUSSLE compatible with this system.

Now that GGPO itself has been released, I can make sure what I’m working on is compliant, so your network experience will be as smooth as possible. Currently, the library is a C++ library, but I have been looking into it anyway. Chances are someone will be making a Unity conversion (if not, then I should be able to, when I find the time). This means that, for the first time in at least a year, I have left the builder to look at some of the underlying engine code. I’m finding some things that wouldn’t quite work out with GGPO and, despite what I said about refactoring earlier, are going to need to be addressed if netplay is to be possible.

Still, I do want to get at least an alpha out by the end of the year, so I might shelve this engine rework for now, and leave online play as a 2020 goal. I’ll need to see how much time I wind up spending on this, but I’ll definitely try to catch myself before I spend too long wandering!

Until next time, Tusslers!

[gear-project]

.    .    .

It seems to me like only the Capcom fanbase can never get over the idea that Japanese developers don't use GGPO Netcode.

There's a lot of reasons for that, hardly any of them involve tradition or old CEO members being stubborn.

You're talking about games that transfer from Arcade Cabs (dominated by Sega) to game consoles, some of which aren't necessarily going to Steam, iOS, or Cellphones.

You're also talking about Netcode that is starting to age.  With Unreal Engine 4, and other newer Devkits, they have to work with more recent technology that produces the best results.

I'm not going to go around blaming Minoru Kidooka for not using tech people prefer just because they 'think' it works for them.  He has to use standards that work with Sega Cabs and Sony/Microsoft standards too.  Even the Nintendo Switch will prove tricky to write code for.

It'd be another story if ARCSys made their own hardware, but they are a Third Party Developer, so they have to work with what's established.

I found this to be an educational read:

https://steemit.com/netcode/@omega-prophet/ggpo-rollback-netcode-is-a-scam-hybrid-real-time-netcode-is-the-future-and-best-ever-devised

Followup for you GGPO fanboys:

1. Most games that use GGPO are emulated 2D.  Most modern Fighting games are 3D or use shaders, and other stuff has to load/process as well.  For games like Injustice 2, it’s still a crapshoot because of #2.

2. GGPO is guesswork, not precision.  It favors players who have bad internet.  By saying you prefer GGPO you’re saying you’d rather fight the computer who is trying to guess what buttons your opponent will press.

3. BALANCE above all else, in Fighting games. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9JTIn1SVQ4&t=31m10s

[gear-project]

“@pof Okay, so since people are willing to debate me endlessly about this, I want a specialist's opinion: why do YOU think that certain game developers don't want to use Rollback netcode, especially in foreign countries?”

Because I DO worry about such things, and I know ARCSys has valid reasons for their decisions.

And even if I don’t necessarily agree with everyone’s opinions on rollback, I have enough sense to ask the right people the right questions.

[blazehedgehog]

I guess a two parter. What are your thoughts on rollback netcode in fighting games? Also, how do you feel for a lot more people pushing for rollback in fighting games and a lot of companies actually doing that and seeing better reception for it?

Trying to remember the last time I played a fighting game online.

I think it was when FighterZ launched. There was a period of about a week, maybe less, before everyone I knew fell off. I have a friend still threatening that we need to go back to it one day. I bought some of the DLC last year.

Before that, I think it was Super Street Fighter 4... which was, jeeze, back when we were still on IRC, I think. Must've been like 2013. I just remember fighting Chess's... Cammy, I think it was? And feeling very, very out of my depth. She was on another level and I was nothing but a fighting game baby before her strength.

Before that must have been the glory days of everyone in our circle experimenting with Kalliera way back when. Back when I felt halfway competent at Marvel vs. Capcom 1 because I was good at getting lucky with Venom's web super.

So I don't know that I've ever actually felt rollback first hand? I like fighting games, but I mostly play them by myself, against the computer, in arcade or story mode.

But hey, if it makes fighting games feel more stable and consistent online, then there is absolutely nothing that should be stopping it from being in every single game. If the big names are advocating for it, then that's that. Put it in. No question, no contest.