#graven discourse

[lilyginnyblackv2]

Regarding the whole Graven and Tenelle situation:

I can't really speak on it in any specific way. I'm not really super informed or aware of the situation involving Tenelle. I shared their Riku's Gay and Why It Matters video back when it first went up on Youtube, because it originally got flagged and taken down due to homophobia, which isn't cool, so I shared it and encouraged people to watch it. Then I actually got around to watching it...and it was filled with a lot of valid and good points, but also a lot of the Soriku theories that get floated around by the BNF (Big Name Fan) Soriku shippers out there. Basically, stuff like the aitsu theory (which was debunked ages ago in one of the Ultimanias) and the whole "In Japanese Sokai comes off as more obviously friendship based and Soriku as more romantic" (it really doesn't, Riku also doesn't seem to be viewed as "gay" by the Japanese fanbase either, Soriku is always presented as a non-canon BL pairing and never official like Sokai is and Japanese fans rarely seem to talk about Riku's sexual orientation). (Also, just for what it's worth, I'm also a Soriku fan and am not a huge fan of Sokai).

But, yeah, basically, I've had not so great vibes from a lot of the BNF Soriku shippers (content creators?) for a long while. I did a lot of translation stuff for KH3 things (like the Ultimanias and Character Files) and engaged a lot with the BNFs and whatnot. And I felt there was just a lot of disingenuous stuff and twisting going on to fit a Soriku narrative more than what was actually being implied sometimes. So, I stopped engaging with them (blocked them, etc.) and haven't engaged with Tenelle or anything made by them outside of the Riku's Gay based videos on Youtube.

I watched Graven's streams of KH1 on Youtube and really enjoyed them. Then, I found out that a lot of his mods were those BNF Soriku shippers and I was like..."Oh, no!" I had a feeling something like that might happen. It was around that time (around Part 10 of his KH1 playthrough on Youtube) that I paused watching his streams of the game and went on to catching up on other series, forms of media, etc.

Edit: Also, just to clarify, I love how open Graven is with the Soriku fan base in general and how open he has been to queer interpretations in general. Any stuff I brought up in mention or regards to BNF Soriku shippers is just coming from my personal experience with that group and my own personal vibes I got from interacting with them in the past, but that is more specifically to the mods themselves and not necessarily the fact that they ship Soriku. I find the whole "Graven is trying to pander to Soriku fans" argument to be both silly and also largely disconnected to the issue at hand. Okay, edit over!

But now I want to get to the actual meat of this post.

I think this whole situation is likely more complicated than a lot of Kingdom Hearts fans may realize especially younger fans. Graven used to also be on the show 7th Heaven:

The plot of 7th Heaven (according to Wikipedia) :

The series follows Reverend Eric Camden, a Protestant minister living in the fictional town of Glen Oak, California, and his wife Annie as they deal with the drama of raising 7 children (twins Sam and David come later in the series) ranging in age from babies to adults with families of their own.

David acted on this show for 10 seasons (he was recurring in Season 8, which aired from 2003 - 2004, so recording for KH2 probably played a part in why he went for a more recurring role in that season). I didn't really watch it that much, but I definitely remember watching some episodes here and there back in the day (my 90s WB show was Charmed). But basically, he spent a LONG time on that series and with those actors. He was on the show from a young age too, so that series was very formative to him.

Now, the actor, Stephen Collins, who played the father on 7th Heaven (Eric Camden) was a child predator. Here's an article about it from 2014, written by Peoples: 7th Heaven Star Admits He Sexually Abused Minors. In the article, it clarifies that the abuses happened before 7th Heaven and as far as I know none of the children on 7th Heaven were sexually abused by him. However, there was this really important quote by April Price, one of his child victims:

“I really have deep empathy for all of his cast mates to be truthful,” Price told The Post, “because they have to have the worst conflicting emotions about him ever. Because the person that they know and they work with would not be the same person, that he was behind closed doors.” “It’s got to be very hard for them,” she continued. “And I hate the fact that they’ve lost a lot of royalties, I’m sure, over the fact that he’s basically tarnished the reputation of the entire show by his actions. That bothers me. But anything that they feel – even if they still think that he’s the greatest person ever – that’s not their fault. That’s what he did, because he victimized them, too.”

The quote comes from this 2025 New York Post article.

I always go with believing the victims/survivors of a situation like this first but, especially in regard to Graven, I think we need to take into consideration that a topic like this one is likely very loaded and complicated for him in a way it may not be for many of us fans. There's the entertainment industry that he grew up in that (as we can see in both articles, tbh) tries to downplay the sexual predation of Stephen Collins, and then there is the degrees of separation and likely disconnect that Graven has with something like streaming and his mods, etc. I'm about 5 years younger than him (35 going on 36) and streaming and that whole space is a pretty foreign space to me and he might have a more "degrees of separation" type of mindset when it comes to Mods than younger people might.

That being said, I would personally prefer it if anyone accused of sexual predation of minors in any way wasn't connected to his Mod team and his streams, but I also think this is a far more personal and loaded kind of topic for Graven in ways some fans reaching out to him about this situation may not realize. I cannot speak for him, but it wouldn't surprise me if there may be some trauma from the whole 7th Heaven and Stephen Collins situation and that may be affecting his handling of this situation as well.

I don't really know the best way to actually approach him on this topic, but I do think having discussion on this topic is important, so please feel free to add any info to this post in reblogs or in the comments. I think this is something that is really important to discuss.

Edit: Just for proper clarification: this post is meant to be discussing how this overall work based experience David had with someone who turned out to be a child predator is just one factor in many that plays into Graven's response to the Tennelle situation. It is not meant to imply that David himself experienced any abuse at the hands of that man because, as I stated in the post, there has been no indications of that and the cast, including Graven himself, have denied this.

[confession-of-the-heart-fm]

Responding to that anon talking about Graven's streams, it sounds like you were watching his streams for the wrong reasons to begin with.

He still talks about SoRiku plenty, but the truth is that Sora and Riku don't interact much in KH2 until the very end of the game. What were you expecting? Kingdom Hearts is more than SoRiku and he should be allowed to engage with the game without feeling like he has to meet some SoRiku quota to avoid being accused of something. I like the ship but I want to watch a VA of a character I enjoy play a game that I love. It would get annoying and repetitive if every single time he opened his mouth to comment on the game it was a silly shipping joke.

I don't think the mods or community needs to push him into talking about SoRiku since he's already said before that he really doesn't ship anything anyway. If he comments on something it should feel organic and not forced.

Also his chat on KH2 days is fucking obnoxious. I wouldn't be surprised if he toned it down because he knows those people don't care either way and just want to watch someone play KH2 and yell at them that they're playing the game wrong

~~~

[confession-of-the-heart-fm]

There’s a lot I could say about the situation but my two cents are that all of this discourse and “white knighting” protects absolutely no one. Certainly not the victim(s), who were actually harmed by this creator.

It’s unfortunate our fandom (and graven) was dragged into it and it’s okay to take issue with the way tennelle handled it (myself included honestly), but accusing people of being groomers themselves or complicit in abuse without any documented proof is incredibly harmful. People used to make SA jokes when I was in school, and I was a victim of it myself, so I know all too well that these sorts of comments should not be tossed around lightly.

There is not one person involved who has outright said they are okay or approve of the abuse that happened.

Ultimately this was all over a follow, which is not an endorsement in and of itself. No one was groomed or otherwise harmed by this follow, though I am glad to see it’s been retracted because it wasn’t worth all this mess nor did it need to get out of hand like this. The fact that it did is honestly insulting to actual victims of abuse.

~~~

[confession-of-the-heart-fm]

The longer that the discussion of Tennelle/Gallagher/his mods goes on, the more I wish I could grab his mods by the shoulders and shake them while yelling "what is wrong with you?!"

I don't care if the reason why Tennelle is still part of the community is because of his 6 hour video on why Riku is gay (which I never watched since I personally thought it was needlessly long like the 3/4/5/or more hour videos of KH3 hate, or the infamous "Why SU Sucks" by L*ly Orch*rd - also I just wasn't interested in watching it), or that he's close friends with the other mods, or something else - he's still choosing to be friends with someone who preyed on and groomed a minor from the Warrior Cats fandom, he should've stepped back when the KH fandom became aware of that.

But no. He's still in the community. Protected by the other mods, and isolating Gallagher from knowing the full truth of the matter, unknowingly - or knowingly - dragging him into trouble just by association.

(Sorry that this sounds ranty, I just, really want to have a stern talk with his mods.)

-🌙

~~~

[confession-of-the-heart-fm]

I've been trying rly hard not to say shit but I'm so tired of the graven discourse. stfuuu it's not that deep. he's a va for a character and he's streaming. y'all are getting parasocial as hell as this point, why is anyone expecting him to do. literally anything?? if you don't like his stuff stop watching it

~~~

[confession-of-the-heart-fm]

graven is doing this graven is doing that

can everyone just stop? this whole thing is bullshit. no he's not pandering no he's not betraying soriku. some of you got really fucking parasocial with this in both directions

~~~

[confession-of-the-heart-fm]

Concerning the whole Graven and Tennelle situation, I wrote about this on my own blog, and I kept going back and forth on whether or not I should mention this here on the Kingdom Hearts Confessions blog, but I think this bit of information is important to know contextually, especially in regard to Graven.

So, long before Graven was known for his role on Kingdom Hearts, he was most well-known for his role on the WB TV show, "7th Heaven." He basically grew up on that TV show and had a main role for 9 out of the 10 seasons (Season 8 he had a recurring role).

The actor that played the father on that TV series was a child predator. He had molested several underage girls and had exposed himself to minors. None of the child actors on 7th Heaven were harmed, as far as we know, and all of the child predation acts happened before the TV show. All of this came out in 2014, about 7 years after the TV show had ended.

In a 2025 article with one of the victims/survivors, she stated this:

“I really have deep empathy for all of his cast mates to be truthful,” Price told The Post, “because they have to have the worst conflicting emotions about him ever. Because the person that they know and they work with would not be the same person, that he was behind closed doors.”

“It’s got to be very hard for them,” she continued. “And I hate the fact that they’ve lost a lot of royalties, I’m sure, over the fact that he’s basically tarnished the reputation of the entire show by his actions. That bothers me. But anything that they feel – even if they still think that he’s the greatest person ever – that’s not their fault. That’s what he did, because he victimized them, too.”

That came from this New York Post article.

There were tons of articles that came out about it back in 2014. Some of them tried to downplay the pedophilic elements, which also speaks to the whole landscape of the entertainment industry when it comes to things like this. In an E!News article from March of last year (2025) there is a video with Graven and two of the other cast members from 7th Heaven where they talk about the situation.

I don't know how the situation is being presented to Graven and I also think that there are issues around degrees of separation with stuff like streaming and mods and his age demographic (which isn't that much older than my own, I'm going to be 36 soon). How the situation is being presented to Graven could be a big factor in how he is navigating the situation and his past experience with having worked with someone who turned out to be a child predator who engaged in physical acts (molestation) could definitely be adding to the layers of complexity around this situation.

I don't know all of the exact details surrounding all of this. I've only heard bits and pieces of what happened in regard to Tennelle, but I do think it would be best if someone alleged of doing anything inappropriate involving minors just wasn't connected to Graven and his mod teams and streaming. I cannot speak for Graven or any of the other 7th Heaven cast members, but I would not be surprised if there is some trauma or baggage for him surrounding a topic like this one that might make the whole situation a bit harder for him to navigate.

I can't say I know how we should be communicating this situation to Graven or anything like that, but I think the above information is important to know when approaching this topic, so I wanted to share it. I also think it is important that we are talking about it and discussing it.

~~~

[confession-of-the-heart-fm]

I'll be honest, I was a bit concerned when I found out certain Graven mods are very vocal about their KH ships even as a huge Soriku shipper myself. Obviously his mods do not represent him and have the right to ship whatever they want, but at the same time they kind of do as rule enforcers who ideally should be a united front. Seeing as they have amassed substantial followings independent from Graven it did feel like a ticking time bomb before someone's business negatively impacted Graven by association. I do wish the team was composed of less public individuals to better protect himself and draw more clear boundaries between his own core community and KH fandom discourse.

~~~