#halime pasha

[stepmarchen]

[stepmarchen]

ASM Ladies and the IRL Historical Gowns They Would Wear (loosely historically accurate, just feel the vibez)

minus Halima, i love her and i tried so hard to find an accurate outfit for her but there wasn't any great resources, so sorry guys

2nd Timeline Shuri aka Current Shuri

In the 2nd Timeline, Shuri often wears brightly colored dresses with a whimsical flair- often adorned with frills and delicate lace details or floral patterns.

1st Timeline Shuri aka Iron Widow Shuri

As the iron widow, Shuri seemed to prefer styles that made her appear older than she was. Black was also her iconic color, being in a continuous state of mourning, post Johannes' death.

2nd Timeline Ohara aka Current Ohara

Being a young lady, Ohara's style airs more on the simpler, demure side, with ruffle trim and smaller silhouettes. Unlike Shuri, Ohara tends to prefer richer, jewel tones and accents.

1st Timeline Ohara aka Villainess Ohara

In the first timeline, Ohara was older and wore different styles than in the 2nd timeline. She was frequently seen wearing a ominous deep scarlet gown with floral accents, befitting of the trajectory of the future in the first timeline.

Rachel von Neuschwanstein

Rachel's dresses are made for young girls and lack the bustles that most of the other, older female characters wear. Her dresses are also far more simple and demure, often light pastel colors with monochromatic adornments.

Which dress are you wearing?

[stepmarchen]

Soo.....I saw like Twitter post discussing how like in Ch 74 (yes I am reading it for the 60th time again) where Ali tells Rachel about how his brothers kinda kill themselves for the throne or smth and then Ch 54 where like Halima (my mother) says "No one tormented you, right? Oh well...they would have been gone" (in short of getting killed?) sooo...maybe Ali's brothers........did smth......

Idk since it's hiatus and we all are going through starvation, hallucination etc etc, I thought of sharing this , what do you think?

Hmmm... it's pretty plainly written that the brothers killed each other fighting over an inherited treasure (the throne). In my mind, I like to think that Ali was probably born after the happened, in an attempt to save the bloodline (because of coooourse a WOMAN can't be king, right?), which explains why Ali is so much younger than Halima.

With their father being quite old and less likely to continue having more kids, it's highly likely that Ali, the last surviving and viable heir to the throne would be fiercely protected by the Safavid Empire. It's to no surprise to me that they would probably execute or banish anyone that offended him or looked at him funny.

So in my mind, I don't see the possibility that the brothers' deaths being caused by an act of rebellion against Ali. If anything, the opposite (Ali dying by rebelling his older siblings) would've been more possible.

Unless... you meant it in a different way? But i still don't think they were executed by any greater authority... I think they just killed each other.

[stepmarchen]

some more ASM alignment memes for the books

[stepmarchen]

okay i know that you said you're not the greatest history buff, but i realy wanted to know your take on the Safavid kingdom as a representation of a middle eastern community..? if you've read enough manhwas you probably have seen some stupid stereotypes and it realy sucks. god i feel like i'm bothering you asking this i mean we don't know much about safavid .. you don't have to answer this :D

of course! i'll try my best to speak about it! the floor is also open to anyone who has their own additions!

So. We all know that ASM borrows inspiration from existing territories and conflict from the 1700s all the way up to the late 1800s, right? Well get ready for this.

If we use this same research model, we'll come to find that the Safavid Dynasty also existed in Iran back in the 16th century. Which means we have a direct reference point we can compare the (manhwa) Safavid Kingdom to! (just remember to take it with a few grains of salt. We're dealing with 400+ years of history here!)

In my humble opinion (as someone who isn't part of the middle-eastern community btw), I feel like ASM does a pretty fair job at representing the middle east via Safavid/Pasha Family. The biggest hurdle just comes from the fact we haven't seen much of them yet.

The first thing I noticed was the architecture. During Halima's trip back home to Safavid we get to see ORKA's depiction of the Kingdom. As you can see below, the inspiration behind the Bahjat's Palace is pretty directly linked to the Meidan Emam in Isfahan, a royal mosque from the Safavid Era!

Unfortunately, the establishing shot of the city isn't as easy to compare, with the introduction of modern architecture. But if we look at Yazd, an untouched city in Iran, we can see the traces of inspiration with just a few minor discrepancies: minaret, domed mosques, earthen town houses.

We also get these small fleeting moments that really make the characters feel like they're from another country. For example, Nasir, Ali's escort can be seen wielding a curved sword as opposed to a European broadsword. Later, Nora mentions that it is a shamshir, a type of Persian scimitar.

even these small details really make for great world building. Honestly, I'd love to see these props make a comeback in future scenes. Like can you imagine seeing one of the rugs Ali brought in the Neuschwanstein Castle?

Now to finally get to the part you've probably been waiting for. The clothes.

Unfortunately, I'm not as well versed in royal fashion in the Middle East so I had a hard time identified the style of dress.

When we compare the real Shahs of the Safavid Dynasty, we'll see that their fashion of choice changed greatly over the course of the ruling. I couldn't pinpoint exactly who, when or which specific culture ORKA is referencing here. But we do see some elements from Tahmasp I (feathered turban, ornate belt, embroidered textiles). Please correct me if I've made any errors here. I'm totally not confident in my Middle Eastern fashion history.

But above all else, I really just enjoy how the Pasha family is written and designed. I think we've seen stereotypes in all forms of media where middle easterners are portrayed... not so well.

In ASM, they're just the Pashas. As a foreign kingdom, they pose a threat against the Empire, but they're not evil. The King seems to be as tired with Halima's bullshit as the Empress is with Theo. Even Nasir has his own occasional dialogue, exasperated by Ali's behavior. And if you've read the same comics I have, we're all too familiar with the "dangerous and stoic middle-easterner" stereotype.

IMO, we've seen "foreign" characters in manga/manhwa that are usually boiled down to one of three types: the socially insensitive clowns/perverts, the murderer, or the alien that somehow has white skin and hair. but I personally find it a breath of fresh air how ASM leans full into the concept of darker skinned characters with dark hair and actual rounded personalities.

This shouldn't be such a high bar to reach, but ORKA has one again reached it.

[stepmarchen]

i think that orka did a great job with the safavid dynasty so far , one of the best "foreign country" representation -but , good god , making bayezid , the foreign country king , the eastern looking man a "sexist" was not a good move (personally) ? - yes , the whole noble community and the church are sexist but when it comes to bayezid n its an annoying stereotype. but let's see how it goes , i think he'll turn out to be a good father at least. orka never fails her readers

That's fair for you to think so. It's certainly a common stereotype that'll leave a bad taste in your mouth. I can't speak for how others may feel but-

Personally, I'm not too mad at it. Given how the characters in the Empire (Richelieu, The Cardinal) are also huge sexists, it tells us that Spice&Kitty/ORKA's decision to make Bayezid a sexist was probably not a racially motivated decision.

"All believers must be silent in the ways of the Church and learn from their husbands. [Shuri] is not a gentle woman."

-Richelieu to Prince Theo

Misogyny is one of the major themes in ASM and a driving force for the religious conflict that makes up the entire series. It's also the reason why we have such strong female characters that are actively working to fight against these bigoted standards. Bayezid could've been written as The Nice Guy, but Halima's character and accomplishments would be far less worthy in comparison.

In literature, we kinda need the bad in order to have the good. Shuri is vocal and motivated against the Church who demands her silence. Rachel is boisterous and boyish against the standards of what a lady should be, as defined by the noble mothers of the empire. And Halima is independent and adventurous, a 180 from the traditional standards of her father and the Safavid Kingdom's beliefs.

Instead, I'd like to see how Halima and Ali are represented in the future. Especially Halima. She's a but of a morally grey character as of yet and I'd love to see how her story advances.

[stepmarchen]

I also have one question in my mind like what happened in the 1st tl war? Like I generally don't know who was against each other in the war , safavid vs kaiserreich or church vs kaiserreich? And if we read halima's research back in ch 36 and did safavid won the war over the empire? Did Jeremy and the others died? I would like to know your take on this , since I am newbie in the fandom, I am dumbfounded

Sure! I know it's a little confusing to pick up on which war the characters are talking about at each given moment, but we can break it up into 3 different parts.

1. The Imperial War that took place before the timeline split

2. The Holy War that started after Shuri's death in the 1st timeline

3. aka the tensions that may be leading up to the 2nd timeline version of the Holy War.

I'll go into further detail below! Spoiler Alert!

The Imperial War (~1090s): A war within Europe

The Imperial War was one of the greatest achievements of the Empire.

It took place before our main cast was born, and the Emperor Maximillian, Johannes, Albrecht, and Alicia all fought in it.

We don't know much about this war but iirc, it's heavily implied that the Imperial War was largely for means of expansion. We still get small hints of the effect of the Imperial War with Albrecht going on trips and touring these territories.

The manhwa doesn't specify who the Empire was fighting against, but we can assume it was probably the ASM equivalent of 19th century Prussia... or something of the like.

***Safavid was not involved in this war but the war Halima is referring to in Chapter 36 is the Imperial War. More on this later.

The Holy War ver. 1 (1119~??): The Kaiserreich Empire vs Safavid Kingdom

The Holy War started as a result of two things: the growing gap between nobles and the poor (as a result of corruption within the church) and the death of Shuri von Neuschwanstein by Safavid bandits (as organized by the Empire's Church). The Holy War was pretty much a huge coverup for the Church's wrongdoings. They shifted the attention to Safavid and called for divine command, which is why it's dubbed the "Holy" War.

This is the war that Jeremy enlists in alone. The epilogue chapters that describe this ends right when the War starts, so we don't know exactly what happened to Jeremy after he is sent to war.

The Holy War ver. 2 (has not happened):

The church's corruption is still running rampant in our current timeline, and Shuri's life is still in danger. Although Cardinal Meissner was arrested, the two main culprits for kickstarting the Holy War in the 1st timeline, Cardinal Richelieu and the Pope Eugenio, are still active.

***Both Halima and Ali are aware of the Church's corruption and how it reflects on the Empire. Safavid's power is growing and the difference in religions is enough cause for political pressure between the two regions. Halima is especially motivated to see Safavid surpass Kaissereich in terms of power, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they will wind up fighting in a war.

All the characters in ASM are constantly gearing up for the possibility of another war happening but we don't know how things will play out as of yet. The tipping point has yet to come but it seems like Church is planning to take a hit on the Theo instead of Safavid.

My Thoughts

Some text in the manhwa suggest the possibility of an entire dissolution of the Church, but I don't think it'll happen. In our current timeline, the Church and the Royal Family are carefully and deeply intertwined, constantly keeping each other's power in check and I can't see the Empire leaving all of its power to the Royals. Theo is way too crazy to be in complete power if you know what i mean

the last chapter of Season 2 revealed that the Church was planning to take Shuri and Jeremy to trial, which I'm assuming, is to bring attention and strike rage into the reputation of one of the most powerful noble families in the Empire.

Where Safavid will play a role? I don't know yet. We'll just have to keep waiting to see, I suppose.

[stepmarchen]

i 'm dying. i was scrolling threw the chapter where theo was talking to shuri about all the fancy girls that he could've marry , and realized that orka dropped halima's portrait right there. now i can't get halima x theo thoghts out of my head. i wonder what kind of relationship they could've have.....

i also noticed that! it was a cool foreshadowing moment!

and with everyone scrambling to get their children married, pretty much any pair is possible. but i honestly don't know how they would interact... it doesn't seem like either of them were interested in the prospects of marrying one another ngl

but it's super funny how different the portrait was when the recipient was shuri tho