Emma is right, Daemon groomed his niece. It’s a known tactic of predators to show their marks pornography before assaulting them (dragging the young Rhaenyra through the brothel first)…I’m sure he never thought she would go and seduce Criston Cole, lmao!
But, in seriousness, it is still in effect now; how else would a Queen’s “consort” keep his head, much less his hand, after choking his Queen?
GRRM already does make it a point to show that 13 yr old Dany getting impregnated, 15 year old Viserrra engaged to a man who could be her father and dying trying to live her last moments as a girl, AND Daemon messing w/Rhaenyra then getting the boot are all obviously bad things about this system--thus a critique of said political environments, but it's still does not mean Larra Rogare, Viserys I, Daemon, and a few others were necessarily bonafide "pedos" like Robert Baratheon, Craster, Walder Frey, or Aegon II bc...
it takes more than the presence of a marriage between 15 yr old and a 23 yr old or a mere relationship of such to rule one of them as an actual hand-rubbing "groomer" (although this particular label on Daemon fits more back in 111...he definitely was using her against Viserys) or a "pedo", bc of how marriages are an arranged affair AND these teens aren't as considered "adults" in ASOIAF--It's not a part of their conscious OR they were forced/socially pressured to marry
The boundaries are looser; again GRRM does criticize that, but he doesn't try to break away from the consequences of that by only writing characters who are closer in age fall in love or become closer or get into sexual relationships.
Example: He still has Dany have the much older and adult Daario as a lover so she can pursue her first self-determined relationship at her 15/16 years of age...which canonically she uses to heal even as she has her doubts about Daario's feelings for her. Perhaps he could have gotten her with one of her khalasar instead, like Jhoqo, but Dany is also still very much a teenager still and Daario was exciting and persistent when she wanted to feel desired. Daario is fine prostrating himself but not totally being her soldier like Jhoqo. Eventually, their relationship will not pan bc Daario's interest in her is still wrapped up more in her being a queen and she herself has the higher goal of freeing slaves, getting back her throne, later the Others, etc.--this doesn't mean that Daario wasn't a critical person in a particular point in her life or that she didn't love him. And all this is consequential to the sort of world she lives in and her particular circumstances.
Yes I can see where some people are coming from. A groomer do/would/could do that.
physically or emotionally separate a victim from those protecting them and often seek out positions in which they have contact with minors
gaining the trust of a potential victim through gifts, attention, sharing “secrets” and other means to make them feel that they have a caring relationship and to train them to keep the relationship secret
will often start to touch a victim in ways that appear harmless, such as hugging, wrestling and tickling, and later escalate to increasingly more sexual contact, such as massages or showering together. Abusers may also show the victim pornography or discuss sexual topics with them, to introduce the idea of sexual contact
behaviors are not only used to gain a victim’s trust but often are used to create a trustworthy image and relationship with their family and community. Child and teen sexual abusers are often charming, kind, and helpful — exactly the type of behavior we value in friends and acquaintances
And show!Daemon does show her sexually exhibitive "content". He does turn the outing into a sexual "session" after she expressed frustrations with marriage to slowly coax her into engaging in sexual activity until he stops.
*EDIT 11/4/24* as grooming implies a primary objective to prey and I don't think that's that Daemon is trying to do so much as show her sex can be fun AND force Viserys to marry them *END OF EDIT*
Again, I do not take the choking scene at face value nor a lot of shit the show writers wrote not just for these two but Baela, Rhaena, Rhaenys, Criston, Alicent, even Viserys. Not enough for me to not be suspicious and questioning the entire story they present.
Still, too much of HotD feels "unreal", even worse to me and unworthy of really taking its characters at face value-- because:
many of their own plot holes/logical inconsistencies that blow up the changes they made; some that could have been made sensical if they had written more for some characters or had more than 10 episode, had less time jump, did flashbacks, AND/OR had more hours in each episode--yes some of these are production problems or executive issues....doesn't mean that the story we're presented stops being inferior AND that some of the writers' choices weren't independently from their own brains...without an exec breathing down their necks (Condal/Hess/Sapochink's)
Baela and Rhaena are separated in the show and Corlys take the first one as a ward (doesn't happen nor would either Rhaenyra or Daemon allow that to happen without a fight, so we need to know how exactly this happened, bc Rhaenys still hates them for them supposedly killing Laenor AND the show makes as if Rhaena hasn't seen Rhaenys in a very long while or leaves the impression Rhaenyra is keeping her from Rhaenys when Rhaenys could very well get on Meleys and see Rhaena all she wants and Rhaena's boat trip to Driftmark is slower but still a relatively short distance...so why?
Daemon cruelty ignores or neglects Rhaena, and no amount of "he was disappointed" or "he was worried she'd experiences or of second son syndrome and he didn't know how to deal with that or help her out" for not having a dragon as a hatchling/in the cradle makes thia make sense when he, as the show states, is actually knowledgeable Abt dragons, Targs history, and bonds and shit, he'd know that MOST Targs bond with their dragons into their preteen, late teens and a few even into adulthood, like Viserys, himself, Aegon I, Aegon the Uncrowned, Maegor I, Laena....so how is this not an unnecessary and nonsensical attempt to asperge Daemon as a bad (more than he already was), really hypocritical dad who is not his suggested, daughter-affirming self as in the book?! And I pull this from how both Rhaena and Baela both became two of the most self possessed, confident, politically active women of their generation following a generation where Target women also enjoyed authority or prestige they previously did not without being conquerors?
Daemon was very loving and caring towards Laena in the canon. Unlike the show, he wrote a whole assed letter to Viserys asking him to accept him and Laena, dispense the exile order against him, so that Laena's twins (Baela and Rhaena) can grow in Driftmark. This is only after. A few months after the twins are in mind you. Meanwhile in the show, the girls are grown children of maybe 6-8, and Laena practically begs him to do the same and he ignores her and she tries to excuse his behavior to Rhaena!
While show!Rhaenyra is defiant even in that choking scene when she brings up how Viserys just never trusted Daemon with the prophecy, she is also made to be much more despondent and less...argumentative(?), more melancholic than what both GRRM's description of her to Amok AND the foreword of Dangerous Women anthology housing "The Princess and the Queen" shows. PLUS, how she very comfortably ignores, defies, gives up Daemon in the book as unlike an abuse victim does more than once.
Rhaenys is the total opposite of her self and they switched her and Daemon's attitudes or impressions of such in the show--Rhaenys wanted to immediately ambush KL with their dragons, Daemon is the one to practice caution.....AND BOTH OF THEM never denied that there would be some sort of battle or armed confrontation!
the choice to make the episode 1 tourney much more deadly than it actually needed to be
Aegon and Aemond, of all people, being allowed a more sympathetic writing and characterization when Daemon is written much worse than his suggested book self....they don't gaf or know much about real DV and how it develops,esp since physical DV doesn't just happen without the emotional and psychological steps of [and these don't all have to happen at the same time]: A) changes expectations or guidelines, thus keeping you guessing how to please them B) insists on spending all or the majority of your time together, cutting you off from friends and family, making fun of your interests in other activities C) constantly accuses you of sexual interactions with anyone in your life (friends, teachers, bosses, counselors, etc.). Accuses you of flirting; monitors how you look and what you wear D) pushes for instant closeness and does not allow relationship to grow at a pace that is comfortable to you [like, Partner praises you constantly and puts you on a pedestal. They want to live together immediately. Partner wants to care for your children and disciplines them early in a relationship (instead of honoring your role as their parent).] E) Partner expects others (and you) to live by their standards, yet he/she doesn’t live by them. F) always focuses on their own wants and needs. They ignore your wishes. G) easily angered, has rapid mood swings, unpredictable behavior; anger is out of proportion to the incident H) stereotypical beliefs about gender roles; insults past partners with sexist language along with ideas of them being "bad" women I) doesn’t accept responsibility for their actions
having Cole and Rhaenyra have sex so they could make her seem to be as close to predatory to Aegon, Cole more of a victim or completely helpless under her being a princess and he a Kingsuard (he isn't, not even in the show)
Laenor's male lover is not killed in a more believable setting of a tourney (in a publicly told, freak incident--this does not normalize constant death at medieval tourneys!) but Cole beats him out of clearly no cover of a tourney and licensed competition of arms, but at a wedding feast where Joffrey had guests rights....and Cole somehow escapes execution?! And we have a gay man treated worse than he was in canon, both Laenor AND Joffrey.
While people already do feel for him and understand his feelings, in the time jump of episode 6 Laenor looks less "sympathically selfish" (bc he is being selfish and he is trying to take advantage of his male privilege to go where he pleases) than if they had really developed that part of the reason why he wants to leave Rhaenyra behind is that he can't stay in the same space as his lovers killer, or have this open up a question of how much it figures into Laenor's own measure of his masculinity. How much does the allure of being a warrior/knight in a far off land have in measure to do with his helplessness or "failure" in Joffrey's death and how he approaches fatherhood?
AGAIN, show!Daemon IS an DV abuser, and that is my problem!!!! Because it isn't true of canon!!!--not for his sake necessarily but for Rhaenyra, his daughters, and their sons' sake and narrative roles in ASoIaF/pre-Daenerys. And it is a part of the writing Rhaenyra to be much less willing to defend herself for the sake of her father's, Aegon's, legacy // co opt Daenerys' narrative characterization (there is a good reason why bkRhaenyra is Daenerys' opposite). This storyline punishes Rhaenyra for marrying Daemon, when it was actually one of her better decisions AND she had a lot of power and authority over Daemon [@rhaenin-time HERE].
Also, check out these two posts: HERE and HERE
All of which is meant to fit into the show's "women are peace keepers of their inherently violent men" theme. Their anti-militaristic, anti-self focused women agenda. Their implication that you should not root for a woman if she uses war to defend herself or to gain polt all advantage and prestige either similar to or in defense of men doing the same. All to diminish how self assured BK!Rhaenyra was not just in her non-warrior, "high-femme" accepting but still wanting power self. The way they use Aegons prophecy is not just to give their Rhaenyra a sense of responsibility to her definition of leadership--which is a Daenerys thing, btw. Comparatively, BK!Rhaenyra might have been self focused, but at least she always stood up for herself, seems to always address others' confrontation head on, expressed her disdain (even in feast before Viserys dies), when others took or denigrated her for her gender. There was a way to show this without her completely demoralized, without her kids being in danger, without Daemon's presence.
There are more but these are my biggest reasons, but not my only one and I forgot something I noticed abt Laenor.....might add it later. So as I showed how the writing for this show is disingenuous and untrustworthy....
The "effect" that I more care about is now that this is the story that most audiences around the world will understand of the Dance and Rhaenyra.
Which tbh, GRRM already fumbled by making Rhaenyra too distant from her own war when he could have gone many routes that force the F&B writers to have to record stuff she hypothetically could have done during the war bc there'd be so many witnesses to her doing such. Of course this is her story; GRRM set the ground for it by not doing as an anon says:
GRRM in part wrote Rhaenyra as a litmus test for the readers’s misogyny but in my opinion it falls flat because he gets caught up in doing that and forgets to give Rhaenyra some dignity or respect as an individual character. And it’s honestly the same issue he has in the main series. Pathologizing motherhood in particular, esp. in relation to women who are also in politics while being mothers. Fathers are never “too mad with grief” to rule competently or make good decisions; only mothers are.
