#idv identity switch

[sundae-nite]

How would Identity Switches React to Each Other?

So this has been a topic that’s been on my mind for a hot minute but have you guys ever wondered what the reaction would be if identity switches could meet? Besides the obvious: “Dang…I really look like that to you???” when it comes to survivors reacting to their hunter counterparts (so think of Norton, Melly, Orpheus, and Frederick being like “wth” to Alice while Weepy and Violetta are like “Margie, why?” to Margaretha. Mike is…a special case here).

For some, it’ll be easy to tell while others you have to do a little more thinking. Before I start, I just want to preface by saying that this is my humble opinion! And I don’t expect everyone to agree as I still need to delve more into the identity switches outside the main story characters so let me know if you have any insights and details I missed!

Let’s start easy:

Norton Campbell

Very easy! At least this should be since I yap about this man to no end on here. I will say that given what we know of the two identities of Norton, I have thought that Prospector would dislike his hunter self, perhaps even hate him. On the other hand, I think “Fool’s Gold” doesn’t mind Prospector really. I don’t even think his hunter self would dislike his survivor self either…and to be honest, their relationship could be summarize by this meme that I think would encapsulates their relationship:

The reason I think this is because you have to remember that “Fool’s Gold” is the physical manifestation of Norton’s suppressed emotions and immoral vices, and usually when one suppresses certain parts of themselves, they don’t like it being put on full display for others to see.

Especially Norton who has tried to live discreetly and quietly while working hard to better his life even when he had to deal with faux sympathetic rich people and fellow miners who amounted to being no more than school yard bullies. “Fool’s Gold” came along and messed that all up though when he sparked the flame that would cause the Golden Cave explosion that killed 13 miners. It was that moment when Norton’s psyche sort of split in two and he became at odds with himself.

An example would be Prospector's Orphan of Goetia Press Animation.

Considering how Prospector has been shown to mentally (and sometimes physically) fight himself in those kinds of moments, yeah, I think he wouldn’t be pleased to see how he is as a hunter.

On the other hand, we look at “Fool’s Gold” especially in his debut essence trailer and he seems to be enjoying tormenting or really turning his survivor counterpart to the dark side and urging him to let him, this devilish being, out to play. I don’t believe there really is malice involved though. I just think “Fool’s Gold” just delights in the chaos and mayhem he can create within himself and towards others.

Prospector looks absolutely horrified while "Fool's Gold" is having a swell ole time. You guys notice how Prospector's color palette changes from cool colors to the warm/hot ones to match "Fool's Gold" when he succumbs to his inner, darker self? Also interesting how in the trailer, it's perhaps the most emotion we've heard in Norton's voice...and his cackling at the end...? Oh my...

So yeah, it would be like “Fool’s Gold” would love to live in chaos harmony with Prospector who would want to kick his darker side out for over staying his welcome. At best, they’re two bickering bros (I’ve seen the nortcest out there and I…I’m not sure I fully agree…) bros who love to hate each other.

“Orpheus”

This is another interesting one since similar to Norton, Orpheus has to deal with a darker side of himself that is the root cause of most, if not all, of his troubles and pain in his life. Unlike Norton, however, Orpheus’ other side is a completely different personality (and yes, while Prospector and “Fool’s Gold at times do feel like different people, it’s really two sides of the same coin…think Jekyll and Hyde…even though that’s technically Orpheus…oh dear, my brain is going in circles…)

I saw people hating on this and I'm like what? Why? It's really good for representing a version of Mr. Hyde. Now we gotta vote Novelist for Deduction star since we get Dr. Jekyll as well.

OKAY, basically, Novelist would absolutely despise “Nightmare.” I mean, this is blatantly obvious if you’ve played or seen Time of Reunion where Detective Orpheus says that he doesn’t trust his other self and is reluctant to seek “his” help in the first place. He also mentions how he doesn’t know exactly what his other self has been up to, but it’s clearly nothing good as Orpheus resolves that he has to come up with a way to show himself innocent or be condemned for things he didn’t technically do.

The "other guy" being his other self.

Then we take a look at “Nightmare” and…to be honest, I’m unsure as to how he would view his survivor counterpart. Granted, as I recently talked about in Orpheus’ Identity Switch post, “Nightmare” is technically just an illusion of Orpheus as a hunter created by Alice under the influence of the manor’s drugs.

If we want to be technical about it, I would be talking about “Villain Charm” instead. Regardless of how you want to refer to Novelist/Detective's other side, I would wager a guess that his other side isn’t fully hateful towards his survivor side.

Actually, he appears as if he enjoys messing with his other side quite a bit since we do see hints of that here and there in ToR. He also doesn’t seem to have any qualms in giving himself hints and some guidance though how much we should trust him is another matter entirely…

Melly Plinius

Yay~ Our newest identity switch that will be joining the manor in a little over a week (omg omg are y’all excited??), Melly is also a rather easy one to figure out.

Would she get along with herself? Oh, I feel she absolutely would. Melly has shown time and time again that due to her human betrayal and distrust, she would prefer to hang out with her beloved critters and bugs of the wild. So to become one of them is kind of like a dream come true, no?

While her transformation came at a traumatic time where it definitely appears to us that Joshua at one point tried to kill her (in my post when her PV first came out, I was kinda trying to give him the grace of maybe her being trapped in the greenhouse being consumed by bees was a visual metaphor for her marriage to Joshua but man…I gotta stop being so soft and naive *cry*)

Well, whatever. We got peak beauty out of it, so it's fine...not really. We can only hope he's suffering in the afterlife.

But anyways, despite all of that, she clearly embraces who she has become (unlike say, Norton who is shown having an internal struggle with himself in his own PV before becoming “Fool’s Gold”). Truly, what else is there to say?

Oh, and naturally, Melly’s hunter side feels quite…gentle (if that’s the word) despite being a hunter now. I would say she’d definitely show her survivor self compassion and kindness knowing full well what she’s been through and the fascination I feel survivor Melly would have towards her hunter self would be a great new study for her indeed (though of course, it wouldn’t just be objective study but a friendship there as well).

Alice DeRoss

Oh, Alice is also a rather special one as she is still the only identity switch that’s a survivor to survivor although it’s a bit awkward in this case because of the fact that “Memory” doesn’t really exist but is rather a product of Orpheus’ mind. Still, it seems obvious that Alice and Alice would get along rather well with each other.

I mean, I don’t necessarily see why they wouldn’t despite the fact that it would be easy for adult Alice to be triggered or upset by her younger self. Why? Because it would be relatively easy to just see “Memory” as a remainder of the trauma she experienced in childhood or Journalist could resent her child self for being weak and not being able to do anything to save her parents.

Obviously, that all sounds like a load of nonsense because what is a child supposed to do against a gang of thieves and bandits? These ruffians were even supposed to go for the children. Now, we don’t know what they would’ve done to the children but we do know that it was best to stay hidden.

I mainly say this about how Alice could’ve been this way towards her child self because this is perhaps exactly how Orpheus feels towards himself as a child. I’ve seen some evidence that supports the fact that Orpheus holds some resentment towards his child self which is…unfortunate really because it’s clear why he would hate his younger self but he shouldn’t.

How we see the photo of the DeRosses and Blanches together in ToR. This was found in the hidden study where the diaries of past participants are kept. Meaning, some or just Orpheus would've had access to this and only Orpheus would probably bother to deface this.

Anyways, going back to Alice, despite “Memory” making an appearance in front of Alice as the result of being drugged and the trauma flashbacks that emerged afterwards, I feel she is also is there as a sort of guide, almost like a moral compass but not quite. One kind commentator both on my YouTube channel and Tumblr mentioned how Journalist is like a motherly guardian figure for “Memory” but I also think it works both ways.

Considering Alice has only had herself to rely on for most of her life, when it’s just you vs. the world, you would constantly seek comfort within yourself. Even as an adult, many still talk to and comfort their inner child especially if they’ve grown up through a world of pain, suffering, and abuse.

That’s how I view Alice and Alice’s relationship with each other though it could definitely change with Cage of Yesteryear dropping next week which will undoubtedly provide more context involving Alice and her past trauma (including “Memory”)

Frederick Kreiburg/Mary

Okay, he technically shouldn’t be here as he doesn’t have an identity switch that has been confirmed in game but I feel so bad that he’s basically left out now. Everyone in the final manor game has a switch except him. So I just wanted to add him for funsies but really also to talk about the fact that it’s quite bizarre to how him clearly as Mary in the final manor game as her survivor switch but then not implement that in the game whatsoever.

I suppose Mary is different as she was already a pre-existing character way before Frederick entered the manor, but it also still kinda doesn’t make sense to me. We know the writers have developed the story for years so why not just connect the two together outside of them being relatives? Do they not want to do a male to female switch or do they have bigger plans for our dear composer?

Granted, it would be very interesting to see Frederick re-emerge in some way with a new switch because I refuse to believe that his role in the main story is just done and gone after he disappears. I haven’t dived into his lore like the others so I only know the bare minimum but I recently have seen just today a number of threads and analysis posts on Frederick so I’m eager to dig in and find out more on him.

Mainly because he is a very intriguing character that is sadly weighed down by the fact that he goes missing after AoM. Thus, unlike the others who had the Affection System to flesh them out more and the upcoming CoY which we don’t even know if even a trace of him will pop up, Frederick remains rather like a ghost in the main story. Here’s to hoping we get more for him in the future (and perhaps an identity switch?)

I can't imagine with such a big lore drop for the main story appearing in Mary's birthday letter means they're done with the Kreiburgs just yet and right before the next part too, but who knows...

Joker

Speaking of pre-existing hunters, Smiley has been in the game since freaking beta really and years later we end up getting his survivor counterpart Weepy. His story was told already in the Closing Night and we got to see how Weepy was seen as Smiley and why. Now, let me say right now that while I did enjoy the Closing Night and their story, I am not completely well versed in any of the characters’ lore in this game though I’ve certainly tried my best to read things here and there.

With that said, I do believe that Joker is one of the ones who would have mixed feelings towards his hunter persona but ultimately may not like him at all and that’s really for one reason only: Margaretha.

Weepy and Smiley's likes shows Natalie (Margie) which I believe he's the only IDV character to list liking a specific playable character except for Ada and Emil, of course. (I could be wrong as well about this)

Joker is so in love with this girl that if he knew that he appeared like that to her as a hunter, someone who resembled her ex-husband in any way, shape, or form, then he’d probably detest himself. Now, as I understand it, Joker’s relationship with Sergi was a complicated one but ultimately resulted with Joker growing a hatred for the man who was abusing the woman of his affection and the one who disfigured his face. Naturally, this resulted in Joker going on a massacre that ruined the Hullabaloo circus and those connected to the place.

Margie see Joker and Violetta as their hunter identities in Closing Night.

While he wouldn’t want to be seen as such an atrocious figure to Margaretha, I don’t believe Joker has any particular qualms over playing the bad guy as he willingly leads Violetta to her death and holds no good feelings towards Mike or Murro either. The only one he remotely cares for is Margie. So him being a hunter is rather fitting if unfortunate for him when it comes to his crush.

Mike Morton

Speaking of being fitting for the hunter role, is Mike truly a good fit for being a hunter? I ask this because it was a question I saw a Twitter user post a while ago where they seemed unsatisfied and straight up unhappy that Mike was the identity switch for Game 8. And to that I say, he is perfectly fine having an identity switch.

Seriously, watch his concept video and it makes more sense if you were already in doubt. Their reasoning is pretty solid in my eyes.

I think it’s because many were hoping for Violetta to become a survivor and that’s perfectly valid but I do feel as if it would be hard to implement a survivor switch for her that would make sense both lore wise and mechanic wise (considering her disability). I also wondered why Violetta ended up being a hunter after playing through the Closing Night myself but I can only guess that it’s due to the fact that hunters aren’t necessarily bad people.

And I feel like this sentiment is why some people may feel an identity switch, specifically a survivor to hunter identity switch may not fit but there's more to a hunter switch than "oh they're bad person who did bad things" which I know fits Joker and Norton but as we've already established specifically with Norton, it takes more than that to become a hunter.

This is where Mike being a decent choice for having a hunter identity come in. When someone receives an identity switch, they have usually entered a new period of transition in their life that they can’t go back from. Or there is more to the person than meets the eye and there are other facets of the character to explore that simply cannot be contained in one identity.

Violetta doesn’t really go through such change. She’s a rather static character in a rather dynamic story and that is perfectly fine. But Mike? Mike goes through perhaps the biggest change in the cast during Closing Night. He went from a rather naively optimistic but earnest man who was trying to find out the truth of what happened the night of the Hullabaloo massacre, a truth he thought he already knew and just needed evidence, only to find out the real truth and his world instantly crumbled dramatically.

From the video above, Tumblr can only allow me to upload a certain quality, sigh...

Seriously, he was so disillusioned and distraught after not only finding out the truth but watching his once beloved “family” die or kill themselves right in front of his eyes, that he also resolved to finish this and subsequently blew up the circus along with himself in it.

Mike definitely had his flaws and some may remain upset with him for apparently turning a blind eye to the abuse and maltreatment of his fellow circus family but I also believe he was a victim in his own way too. It’s rather clear that Bernard, the one who took him in and was the runner of the circus, groomed him to be the Hullabaloo’s star act and perhaps shielded him or blinded him to the truth.

I can't help but think of his latest birthday reward, this portrait. It always bothered me and think about all this makes me realize why now.

As you can tell, while I haven’t done a deep dive into Mike’s character and lore, I find him to be one of the most interesting identity switches in the game too. Anyways, I could go on, but I’ll stop there since he’ll eventually get his own dedicated identity switches in the future and I JUST realized I haven’t answered the question that I was supposed to be answering but in short, Mike would also be rather complicated.

See, “Hullabaloo” knows the truth of that horrible night when the circus fell and became a ruin—a shell of himself, just like his former home. He accepted the truth no matter how much it hurt. However, Acrobat isn’t at that stage yet so while the two probably wouldn’t outright dislike each other, they would certainly be at odds with each other if, IF Acrobat is still at a stage where he remains stubbornly fixed on his own truth.

If not, then I can see Acrobat kind falling into some despair at seeing himself becoming a walking empty shell that is still doing his best to keep it together despite his whole world shattering. Maybe they’d seek some comfort in each other…

Luchino Diruse

And lastly, we have Luchino who similar to Melly, it’s fairly obvious that his two identities would get along because simply put, this was his life’s work and passion.

This entry will definitely be the shortest since I know very little about Luchino, less than any of the other characters in this post but I do know that he is a FREAKING PAIN to go against as a hunter (I hate that freaky lizard and his freaky tongue)

Ahem, but yes, Luchino has been studying the next evolution of humans and became fixated on reptiles (for some reason…bringing it back to the dinosaur age I suppose) and was already experimenting on himself to achieve what he hoped would be the next step in evolution.

And God knows what happened at the manor, but whatever happened, helped Luchino achieve the greatness he had been searching for all along.

These two would be geeking out on each other though I can see Evil Reptilian being a bit disappointed in Professor for not yet reaching peak evolution but he’s getting there.

Anniversary art showcasing some of the identity switches. Are you excited to see more? There's recent talk that EMIL may get an identity switch...incredible...I mean, we can't get a double switch with Ada too? I honestly can't see them separated from each other.

Welp, that’s it. Those were my little thoughts on how identity switches would get along with their other counterpart. It’s all just guesses on my part with some stemming from lack of knowledge from the character. Though I even struggle with characters I am rather familiar with…oh boy…

Hope you enjoyed this post. The next one I’m thinking of writing will probably be even more of a doozy.

[sundae-nite]

Identity Switch Series #2: Alice DeRoss

Alright, I’m finally back guys with another one in the identity switch series and this time, it’s about our beloved, Alice. I’m super late on this one as I had initially started writing this up about a month ago, just after “Memory’s” birthday actually.

But life happened where I disappeared for most of September and then October hit and my life was still a mess, and then I got busy writing up nortalice fic after fic (which I’m still in the middle of) so I sorta needed that writing break (you guys have no idea).

Moving on, check out the other posts in my Identity Switch series:

Mr. Norton Campbell

"Orpheus" Blanche

Anyways, let’s just get started but first, I want to preface by saying that the following is my own speculations and thoughts. The IDV lore is vast and complex and very very open to interpretation so just bare that in mind when encountering such posts like mine. Okay, now we can actually get started.

Definitely give this a watch this as it pretty much clears some mystery around "Memory" and Journalist's relationship.

So, the first thing I want to establish when it comes to Alice having an identity switch is: is “Memory” aka “Little Girl” truly Alice? 

This question mostly stems from a concept brought on by some in a Discord server I used to frequent (again, life happened) where we discussed at one point Alice and “Memory.”

And it basically boiled down to: “Memory” isn’t really Alice or "Memory" doesn’t really feel like the journalist that we know and love today. But why is that? 

To be honest, I never really felt that way about “Memory,” but I can see why some would feel that way especially with how closely tied she is to “Orpheus” who we all know he has the most unreliable memory ever (I swear).

Like, the man cannot for the life of him even comprehend that he is looking at a 21-year-old Alice and instead can not move beyond the past and sees her as still a 6-year-old instead. This is seen in the official lore videos: “Da Capo,” “Go Hunting,” and “Memory” along with “Memory’s” birthday letters:

"For I have never truly "seen" her mother clearly, and this is what troubles me the most. No matter how many new memories I gather, no matter what logic I apply, she does not exist in any fragment of memory I can verify to be true. Even now, though we are often just a window apart, I still cannot remember her. Unlike the child, whose image grows clearer in my mind, the mother's figure fades deeper into the hazy mist.” - “Orpheus” in “Memory’s” 2024 birthday letter.

"That child has returned...Yet I have not seen her mother since. I fear the worst...It was from that time, I think, that the child began to grow ever more peculiar. Never did she show the sorrow or fear one might expect after so grievous a loss, at least not that I can recall...she would stand in the entrance hall, staring at the statue of Calliope with a puzzled expression upon her face." - "Orpheus" in "Memory's 2025 birthday letter.

The mother of course being an adult Alice. Listen, I know it’s due to the drugs and all but for some reason there’s an irrational part of me that is upset this dude can’t get fight against the fog and see clearly who she is. But then again, this whole charade would be less interesting and confusing (read: engaging, as well), if he was completely within his right mind.

Basically, “Orpheus” due to the drugs, due to his own inability to see beyond his wretched past but clings onto the one part of it that was good—Alice, who in his mind is still the little happy ditzy girl he grew up with.

This is also a good point to return back to the video to above to further my point. Sev (good ole Sev, she also conceptualized "Fool's Gold") mentions that "Her name and figure, in various forms, appeared many times in the detectives' memory fragments and dreams. Parts of these impressions were fused by the detective into a complete individual he refers to this individual as "memory."

A bit later in the video, she goes on to say: "Memory" is the current part of Orpheus' perception of Alice DeRoss.

In Time of Reunion, we are introduced to Alice through the detective's memories and dreams and yet, her existence appeared to be an enigma. Now, as we travel through the main story with Alice, we are now getting to the true nature of "Memory."

It both worries and intrigues me that they showed this scene when talking about understanding the true nature of "Memory"

For those that don't know, the above scene is of Alice in the middle of being experimented on in the land down under, Australia. When "Cage of Yesteryear" drops later this year, we are supposedly getting more information on "You Know Who" the secretive organization that is headed by her adoptive father, Vilhelm Lamb, and the one who more than likely subjected her to these experiments with help from a certain Sam Bourbon.

So yes, in short (lol “in short”), the answer to the initial question of “Memory” being Alice is: Yes and No.

Well, that was easy. We can all go home now. The video answered all of our questions and there's no more need to continue...

EXCEPT WAIT!

You guys know me by now, I have to continue yapping and yap I shall...

So to reiterate, “Memory” is just literally her namesake. She's just memories of Alice in her childhood from the perspective of “Orpheus.” That little girl you see is just really recollections of what “Orpheus” remembers of Alice as a young girl of 6. He remains mentally stuck in that paradise they created as children and imagines Alice at, perhaps, her most happiest and carefree.

This is the Alice he wants to see...possibly the Alice he wants to bring back even if it means hurting others and even her in the process. This, along with recreating their paradise from childhood (look at how spic and span and inviting the manor is when Alice returns yet compare it to other manor games like Games 8 or 9). Though that is just my speculation.

Interestingly, in "Memory's" debut essence back in Season 18, we have a story that basically mirrors the main story. If you don't know the full story of this essence, I'll try to sum it up (or visit the IDV wiki *hint hint*):

After thinking she was the only survivor of her childhood home being cast into disaster, rumors surface that her home is apparently no longer inhabited but full of life again. Returning back to her Paradise, she is shocked to find that it has fallen into an endless night where an absurd dinner party is being held along with a monster that is "human" along with 4 others you see in the trailer. And there, a familiar shadow is within the flames of the party, a shadow belonging to one she never thought would be so crazy nor someone she thought would never hurt her.

I mean...if that doesn't scream main story, I...I don't know what to tell you...

If you look further into it, Memory's cosmetic is called, "Source of Evil" which alludes to how she is the origin of all which is evil and sinful in this Eden-like paradise. She is the pure innocent lamb while the doll she holds, a goat, is the evil and sin that she brought back to this island. Yet, while she may be tainted by the evil that follows her, she is the only one at the dinner party that looks out of place as she came with pure intentions to this "false banquet."

Obviously, this also reflects how Alice and "Orpheus" are intertwined with each other. He is, of course, the shadowy figure in the above GIF. He is the host of the party and the one that has turned their childhood home and paradise into a sinful farce. When Alice finally returns, with the purpose of finding out the truth, she is faced with "playmates" that aren't so pure and well intentioned as her.

Interestingly, this illustration is for the official MV for "Endless Banquet," a song sung by the Japanese VAs of the "Final" Manor game describing why they came to the manor and how they feel about the game they're participating in. Just thought it being called a banquet in relations to our "false banquet" above is a good parallel to note. Note: Here is the translation for those interested.

I could go on about the Essence story especially since I haven't touched on Hollow "Orpheus" himself, but I will perhaps save that for his own post. I also don't need this being too long itself.

Still, while “Memory” isn’t exactly Alice, I feel it’s a bit of an injustice to completely separate them from each other. They are clearly written to work in tandem with each other whether we see that through the main story or even through cosmetic showcases.

 While their traits are different due to the fact that again, "Memory" is how "Orpheus" saw Alice...and also the fact that she grew up and matured, their interests, likes, and dislikes are the same. Amazing that writing isn't considered a talent for Journalist though...or is that too obvious?

Speaking of the main story, we do see “Memory” a few times from Alice’s perspective. The most prominent scene we see this is when Alice has a dream where she, as a child, is walking down the Muses Hallway and hears a voice calling out to her. The player can choose which name she responds to before it is revealed that it can be one of three if you respond to:

Alice -> You see what appears to be little Orphy walking towards you.

Eurydice -> You see what appears to be "Orpheus" walking towards you.

(The name you called your character, so for me it would be SundaeNight): Then you see what appears to be Alice walking towards you.

Note: It’s very interesting who comes out depending on the name their respond to, but more on that perhaps in another post as I don’t want to go off topic too much.

In another important scene where we see “Memory” come out, it’s right after Alice is drugged by Norton in the basement lab. We see “Memory” turn to our poor journalist and say questioningly, “Alice?” before the scene shifts back into darkness.

It’s intriguing to pause here to note that a tweet I saw on Twitter make a speculation that Alice may be similar to “Orpheus” and have some form of Dissociative Identity Disorder since “Memory” works almost as an alter that helps Alice cope with the horrible experiences and events that have occurred in her life. This theory as some weight to it as it truly is a wonder how Alice has been able to cope with the horrific and downright awful things that have happened to her. 

Click the image above to read the theory thread if interested.

From witnessing the murder of her parents, to being deserted by relatives to an orphanage known for abusing the kids to finally being adopted out of that horrid place only to experimented on with your very memories becoming unreliable as they are manipulated and shaped to her experimenter's liking to escaping that only to come to the manor and face almost similar experiences. 

It’s just a godawful cycle for poor Alice who, if you are inclined to believe, dies soon after arriving back at the manor which once was her childhood paradise.

Listen, I like Norton a lot...heck, I even ship them but him drugging her induced this response outta Alice and led these awful memories resurfacing. I know I know, it's more "Orpheus" whose at fault but my God...Both need...a little talking to...

Speaking of traumatic experiences, let’s back track to the orphanage. White Sand Street Orphanage (later Asylum) has a pretty bad history and unfortunately, numerous of our beloved characters are tied to the place.

As mentioned before, Alice spent nearly a decade there (between 6 and 14 years old) before being adopted out. Her experiences there, at least in the beginning were not pretty. We can see one such scene in the GIF above with the kids throwing what appears to be a dead bird at little Alice...who proceeds to bury it with a proper funeral.

On another related note, we have this letter from the 2nd anniversary package that describes what she was like. Mind you, considering how old this is, some information is bound to have change as some out there believe this letter has been retconned:

Since her arrival, her mental state has been on the border between consciousness and insanity. Any slight irritation will cause her to continuously scream shrilly, and scratching became her only form of communication with others. Even when she is in her more conscious state, she refuses to interact with others, but she can at least act independently.

This letter dated December 23rd, 1894, is actually what would become Orpheus' first birthday letter describing how he tried visiting Alice in the orphanage but was rejected for reasons he found were lies. However, in this anniversary letter, he apparently tried not only to visit her, but adopt her as well.

Since this letter was changed with the arrival of Orpheus' first birthday, many believed it may have been retconned. However, recent evidence suggest this may not be the case):

Thanks to idvjp tl on Twitter who translated the story timeline at Identity V's Dig!Dig!Seven Exhibition in Japan back in July. It was an event that celebrated the 7th anniversary of the game with a tournament and performances from the Japanese Stage Play cast.

There was also this right after it:

So, if we believe the timeline, there were actually 2 different times when a letter was sent to Alice's orphanage: one to request adoption and another to visit her. Both cases the person was denied with excuses that apparently didn't fly with the letter's sender.

Of course, we believe this is "Orpheus" especially since it's confirmed with his birthday letter. While the adoption part is still something some will continue to speculate whether is canon or not, we can say it may not be completely retconned.

Returning to her time at the orphanage, we see both in Journalist’s background story trailer and the main story, that her time at the orphanage was definitely something that would negatively affect a child for life. Not to mention, a fire broke out at some point at the orphanage which would’ve just unearthed memories of the night her parents died.

I nearly forgot to mention that Alice was also derided and verbally abused for being the sole survivor of the manor fire as we can see here. She was labelled a "curse" and was hurled all sorts of nasty insults towards her...adults...adults were doing this to a child...While kids will be kids, there are a couple of adults in the picture...sisters of the Orphanage (it was Christian-based)...can you believe it...unfortunately I can.

Anyways, sorry for once again going on a mini tangent. The fire I mentioned before, by the way, is given a specific date in…out of all places, Florian’s, or as I like to call him, Fin’s deduction notes. It details that a fire broke out on September 13th and from reading further into Fin’s lore, we can see that he was mostly the cause of the fire despite also becoming somewhat of a hero as he rescued children and staff alike from the accident. Possibly he may have crossed paths with Alice at this point.

Fin's 7th deduction note. It's super interesting they give us a specific date of the fire. Heck, even a big event like the Golden Cave incident doesn't have a set date...so why this wee little orphanage fire?

This is also an interesting point to make as September 13th is also “Memory’s” birthday. So, was “Memory” as an identity and/or as an alter maybe, born that day? Who was the cause for that? “Orpheus” who we know is the reason why “Memory” exists as she does in the first place? Alice who we can speculate may have created memory in order to protect herself? Or, well surprisingly, Fin who probably was just the unknowing catalyst that helped create not just a miracle but a whole memory of a person? 

Like gosh darnit, I’m biased a lot towards Fin but that was just by chance. Who knew he may have had a hand in Alice’s life like this, not to mention the fact that some even believe he may have a hand in the final manor game…

A rather brilliant thread on why Fin actually may have a role, a major one at that, in the final manor game. Click the tweet above to read miyaji's theory.

I myself won't go into too much detail nor talk too much about Fin since I dedicated a whole post on my own analysis of his character. Who knew this lil unassuming fire investigator may be more of a key to the final manor game and Alice's past than we thought? Or I'm just incredibly biased because I main him as well (hehe, my apologies for being delusional.)

But I digress.

Actually, before we completely move on from Alice’s time at the orphanage, I want to talk just a little about her first birthday letter. It’s an enigma to put it shortly. It doesn’t make a lot of sense besides the fact that it sounds like two people—Alice and someone else are having a written conversation between each other.

Now, when I first started diving into the lore of IDV, I binged Silmina’s videos on YouTube. Silmina is a wonderful IDV content creator who has done her fair share of lore videos amongst other IDV content. To be honest, I wanted to do what she does (*cough* I did one lore video a while back *cough*) but maybe one day.

Silmina's 2 parter on Alice. She has more videos on her channel about the lore! Check her out.

But in one of her videos on Alice, she brought up the theory that the letter was actually Alice writing to herself in order to remember things she may very well forget. This is one reason why I believe Alice got into writing in the first place. She knew even from a young age that words have power and that she was in danger of losing her memories and those she held most precious to her, so she began writing down as much as she could to preserve them. 

Perhaps, she was inspired to do so from “Orpheus” himself as she recalled how he used to write stories and read it aloud to her. Captivated by words of fantasy and imagination, Alice created her own world of words after preserving memories and finding the truth through them…if that makes sense.

This is why I say I can’t fathom why she seems such an unpopular character. Not unpopular in the sense she is unlikable, but unpopular in an apathetic and uncaring sense amongst the larger IDV community. I mean, I already covered this in my “The Alice DeRoss Problem” post from a while ago, but I felt the need to bring it up now in her identity switch post.

Alice and Alice, both rather misunderstood and unfortunate identities both in game and within the community.

Which as I see, as grown to be pretty long. To be honest, I felt like this was more of a ramble than Norton’s post (actually, let’s be real, every post of mine like this is a ramble). Regardless, I apologize for taking so long on this post. I believe besides life getting in the way, I was hesitant to write up such a post because Alice is actually a rather complex character in an even more complex situation.

While her story is far from complete, similar to Norton, unlike him, Alice is literally the protagonist alongside “Orpheus” and their stories still have so many puzzle pieces missing that we can’t possibly figure out everything there is about their character. Seriously, we could all be completely wrong about “Memory” and Alice for all we know.

And I literally just learned they may be a 3rd main character? Are you kidding me? Thus, we have to wait on this mysterious character because they clearly have ties to both Alice and "Orpheus" which means more lore for both...Guys, I'm short-circuiting...I am also forgoing dinner to write this.

This was from miyaji's Fire Investigator in the "Final" Manor game thread. I'm not sure what interview this is, so if anyone knows so I can corroborate this information, that would be grand, thanks!

Regardless, since “Cage of Yesteryear” is right around the corner bringing with it another part to the main story, we will learn even more about our girl, Alice. I’m even writing this just days before the livestream for it so God knows some of the information I write here will be outdated in just mere days. 

But for now, as we wait painstakingly for more Alice lore, let’s just enjoy what we have now and give more love to our dear Alice because she needs it…oh, she’ll definitely needs it.

I'll leave this here because I need another post to share just how adorable these images of Alice are. How people are sleeping on this lady is beyond me.

[sundae-nite]

Identity Switch Series #1: Norton Campbell

Identity Switch Series #1: Norton Campbell - Ghosts of the Manor

Header Image: Birthday art of Norton. Fool's Gold's artwork was created by CharActerBunny.

This is another old post of mine that I'm now posting to the website.

Finally, I am slowly but surely putting up my old lore/character analysis posts. Norton in particular was someone I wrote about a lot when I first hopped onto Tumblr so expect not just this but a compilation of previous Norton posts in another "Character Study" post.

To be honest, I don't write much about Norton these days...like at all...because I feel like I exhausted a lot of talking points on him (from major to minor ones) nor do I have much else to say. I'm also trying to focus on learning about other characters.

Next Identity Switch post will be on Alice who I do wish to write more for cause oddly I haven't due to...a sort of writer's block I suppose.

[sundae-nite]

The Issue with Identity Switches ("Final" Game Focused)

The reason for this post. As much as we love her...we need to talk about her.

This post is a little belated but I wanted to talk about this after seeing the reactions to Melly’s hunter identity. So, let’s take a look shall we? 

Admittedly, it is just Melly a bit more stretched out with some insect features like the wings (which we saw previewed in the initial teaser poster for Cage of Yesteryear), her antennas, and her eyes. But a lot of people are more disappointed by the fact that she didn’t have more bug features or just straight up look like a bug.

I also feel like people were misled from the initial poster for Cage of Yesteryear.

I feel this is for a couple of reasons:

This is Alice’s perception under the influence of the manor’s drugs

The most clear example from the main story would be this shot of Norton. Alice sees him as "Fool's Gold" when the puddle shows us the actual reality. One thing I always wondered is, why does she envision grumpy surly Norton with a grin plastered on his face? Duality emphasized methinks (also it's kinda funny).

Let’s not forget that when it comes to everyone in the “Final” Manor game that Melly, “Orpheus,” Norton, and Frederick are all seen as hunters at one point or another to Alice due to the effects of the drugs.

And yes, even though Frederick doesn’t have a confirmed identity switch in Mary, we still count that as it’s fairly obvious due to the physical similarities and the fact that before the “game” on the racecourse, Alice’s perception of Frederick morphed into Mary on what I assume was the influence of Orpheus’ little tale about what happened at the Kreiburg Racecourse years prior to their arrival.

Example of recent talk about how some are labeling Alice after "Queen Bee's" reveal. Twitter isn't really the best place to find people who discuss the lore seriously specifically when it comes to Alice. I already talked about the problem the community has with her in a previous post coincidentally inspired by a Chia tweet. Still, I do feel bad for Chia here. I don't really interact with people on Twitter and I suppose they're not on Tumblr? Since I feel as if I see plenty of respectful and intriguing takes on Alice and the "final" manor game participants that they'd love to see/read...

Like, I feel real tempted to tweet but I just don't like Twitter as much as before and my stuff ends up being buried anyway cause Twitter engagement sucks. When I first got into IDV, I did try to engage with other IDV players on there but just got ignored so I became too discouraged to continue. Anyways, this is getting off topic, but I saw these tweets recently and felt pretty bad...

They make cute little art of Alice all the time too.

Anyways, after “Queen Bee” dropped, many started poking fun at Alice for being basically a “gooner” or being a simp for the others in the game because of how she views Norton and Melly as hunters.

Kinda proving my point here.

I mean, sure, it’s pretty funny that she still sees them in a way that most will find them attractive but I also believe on a more serious note that it’s part of Alice’s nature not to dehumanize anyone to such a degree where they seem less human (putting a pin on "Orpheus", we'll get to him later) because she's a rather sympathetic and intuitive individual.

By the time she arrives at the manor, she's read, investigated, and connected with countless stories and people (virtually the whole cast of IDV present and future) and not only as a journalist but as a person can see the person behind the facade that they or others have built up.

We see this explicitly in the affection system where even Mr. Norton “Stay the hell away from me” Campbell is eventually convinced that Alice means well and can even become allies with her in Cage of Yesteryear. 

Can y'all believe it all started from this? Actually unbelievable...

I would also like to remind those that the vision of these characters as hunters isn’t all on Alice. As mentioned in “Fool’s Gold’s” concept video, “The identity of a character and the character itself are somewhat akin to the concepts of id and ego. Or the difference between how other participants perceive this character and his self-perception.” 

This applies not just to “Fool’s Gold” but to the other identity switches as well. When a character receives a switch, it is mentioned that they aim to emphasize prominent character traits. For example, while Norton as a survivor is perceived as being diligent, hard-working, and bearing the facade of enduring life’s hardships, in contrast, “Fool’s Gold” is the physical manifestation of Norton’s suppressed anger, ambition, and desires of the heart who does whatever it takes to satisfy these things. 

If you want more details on my thoughts and observations on Norton having an identity switch, you can go here (it's kinda a long read though).

In addition, the reason why “Fool’s Gold” is made mostly of rock is because it aligns with his job as a miner but also emphasizes his dehumanizing state (i.e. the petrification of Norton Campbell) which again is also seen by the fact there’s a hollowed space in his torso. He no longer has the pains of his lungs to shackle him from chasing his wildest and most malicious desires. 

He also comes across as less humanizing because of his treatment of others (using them as stepping stones, killing those miners, willing to kill one of the ladies at the manor, etc.)...basically it feels like he has to become a monster in order to beat back at the monsters who bullied or thought him lesser than all his life...even if it means throwing away his humanity.

Looking forward to seeing the story of this essence.

Similarly, Melly is the same. While more will be revealed about her character in the next main story part (and perhaps if/when “Queen Bee’s” trailer/concept video drops), we can already surmise why she came out the way she does. 

While it’s still a mystery on if Melly had anything to do with her former husband’s death, it’s clear that Melly’s interest lies more in the bugs and insects that surround her than clearing up rumors of her being a murderer. Even if she says she came to the manor for Joshua, her ex-husband, after working through her affection system, it’s clear that her passion for entomology outweighs any care she has towards humanity in general. 

Though Alice is probably an exception at this point. I'm serious, the way Melly be glazing Alice at full affection is SO MUCH (lol). Both her and Orpheus do actually while Norton is grumbling about his fellow miner's drinking cat piss or something...(would it kill him to say something nice about Alice...actually...it might...)

Given what I said above, I would agree that it would’ve suited Melly more if she had more bug-like features to her physical appearance and it almost feels like an injustice that she doesn’t appear more insect-like considering it really does feel like she’d want to be one with the bees and insects she has so carefully studied and admired most of her life at this point.

And considering how THIS is the way her survivor trailer ended...oh boy...

But that also brings me to my next point…

Ugly hunters don’t sell well

Like, who plays this guy? No one. And it's the objective truth. I also wanted to make him an example because I'm still reeling over the ONE time I get a Feaster in a rank match and of course I get a streamer with 50+ viewers who watched me get terrorshocked at 5 ciphers.... *ahem* anyways...

As much as I personally don’t mind the creepy crawlies, the Cthulhu-inspired horrors, or the conventionally unattractive hunters that we do have, many in the IDV community have shown that ugly doesn’t sell. 

I mean, guys, I haven’t been here for that long but I saw the community reception to “Cueist.” Everyone and their mother was calling him chopped, twink #2505, pretty boy wannabe, etc. etc. In addition, while the original poster's comment is gone now, I still remember a Reddit post that asked about the Chinese community's opinion on Marcus hoping that if they hated him too that he'd be changed.

I also remember seeing folks hate this banner until the showroom showcases showed how they looked in game and suddenly a lot of people changed their minds. The "Cueist" hate truly was honestly too much...

Granted, his design isn’t too unique as he does borrow elements from other hunters (ex: Norton and Marcus share the same disjointed leg), I can almost see why the art team would go in a safe, if not, redundant direction. 

Look at “Goatman,” who definitely is rather unattractive objectively speaking. While he is meta as heck, he isn’t seen a lot and I don’t see him receive a lot of love in general. Other hunters who fall into the “they’re cool in their own ways but too ugly to simp over” are: Feaster, Clerk, Violetta, Evil Reptilian, etc. 

And yes, I did put in Violetta there because correct me if I’m wrong (since I wasn’t around when it first dropped) but I heard that she only began gaining more fans and sympathizers after the Closing Night story. Let’s be real, Violetta would definitely be more played and adored if her base design was more attractive.

Basically how she appears in Closing Night. Like of course, it's pretty obvious she'd have more fans but it seems people also moved on from Closing Night fast as well.

On that note, Luchino is an interesting one. He has an identity switch, similar to the one’s in the “final” manor game. However, Freaky Lizard, as I like to call him, is also not very simped over in the community. I mean, I do see some fans of him out there, but his hunter identity, which is arguably not the handsomest isn’t in the same category as “Fool’s Gold” for instance. Unsurprisingly, I have seen memes that made fun of the fact that if Luchino's hunter side came out today, then he'd be twinkified and/or be a pretty boy basically.

The only hunter that has somewhat creepy and fairly monstrous features that is still somewhat popular in the community is Dream Witch and let’s be real, she’s beautiful, that’s why.

Like, when I first started playing IDV and even now, I get a lot of Bloody Queens, Geishas (doesn’t help that her Halloween fit just came out), and Naiads. Why? Because they’re all pretty ladies and everyone wants to play a pretty lady and imagine they’re some gorgeous queen or graceful mermaid or dainty yet deadly geisha. I'm not even joking. There was one day I got back to back to back Bloody Queens and I was about to go mad, I tell you.

Oh no, the boys are certainly not exempted from this either. Mike is the latest example of an identity switch being just as handsome (if not more so according to some) as his survivor counterpart.

The male hunters are similar. “Fool’s Gold” is still rather handsome despite being made of rocks and having an irritating grin on his face that makes you wanna slap it off…plus, Norton has just been popular since forever. Then there’s Ithaqua who under that masks is a bonafide pretty boy who could model for Vogue.

Like even Mike as “Hullabaloo” is still pretty cute…in a tragic clown sort of way. And similar to Norton, Mike has been around since forever and as always seemed to be popular. I've seen some even wonder why Mike was the one to get an identity switch...but it makes sense given his popularity and story (but more on that when I write up his identity switch post~)

So, you see the pattern, right? But I just felt like I had to talk about it to sort of remind people to curb their expectations especially of identity switches in the future. That isn’t to say that NetEase/Joker Studio won’t try to explore creating creepier and actually monstrous characters, but don’t expect DBD Krasue level hunters to be created especially given the censorship of IDV. 

For those that don't know, the Krasue is the latest killer to be added to DBD and she's based on an actual Thai spirit. And yes, in game her insides that you see enter the body can and will chase you around the map without her body.

Anyways, this post was mainly for those that needed such a remainder and for those who were disappointed in hunter Melly’s design. I hope that even if you don’t like her design or any of the other switches that you find some sort of characteristic that you like about them…or not. But I do believe that despite the limitations and fear of community apathy towards their “uglier” and more monstrous characters, that the creative team does put care and thought into the characters they create. 

From "Hullabaloo's" concept video explaining how they physically represent Mike's joyful, carefree life at the Hullabaloo circus, is destroyed in the massacre and how that shatters his world and very being. A lot was said and I'd recommend the video for not just Mike fans but anyone who wants a bit more of a glimpse into their thought process on creating identity switches.

Anyways, let’s go back to Alice and her jolly gang of hunters, shall we? 

So far this is the only time in the "main story" where we see "Orpheus" as "Nightmare." This cutscene you get at the very beginning of the story which is followed by a gameplay section where you as Alice have to run from "Nightmare" and make it to the exit gate. Poor Melly and Norton (who is the only one being attacked by birds btw) are running for their lives apparently.

But can we talk about the fact that out of all the ones who looks the least human as a hunter, it’s Orpheus? 

Welp...I mean...it's pretty obvious who doesn't belong here...

Like goodness, why is that? While I do agree with the line of thinking that Alice probably found out properly what Orpheus has been doing at the manor and thus her perception of him changed greatly, but I do wonder what exactly she learns, how exactly she reacts to it, and when we will see “Nightmare” in action (outside of the cutscene above) as I assume we’ll see hunter Melly in the next main story installment which would be almost everyone accounted for in the story for identity switches.

Also, can we take a moment to compare how "Orpheus" sees Melly and Norton under the effects of the drugs vs. how Alice sees them. I've seen people say they prefer Norton's design here, but to me it's too generic and bulky similar to the OG hunters like Leo, Joker, and Bane. I do wonder if that says something in itself.

On the other hand, Melly is just a swarm of bees/insects...which is cool but perhaps still a little simplistic. At least Melly looks more...flattering than Norton who looks more beastlike than man. Truly, makes me wonder how "Orpheus" feels towards Norton...as he doesn't seem to have too many negative feelings towards Melly as he does to our dear prospector here.

Then again, thanks to @quoththeowl31 who mentioned how Norton could remind "Orpheus" of his awful father who helped orchestrate the events of the manor tragedy due to greed of money in order to pay for his wife's/Orpheus' mother's health bills and well...that makes sense. I do wonder if he also didn't anticipate Norton actually allying with Alice (if it's not a twist and it's actually Orpheus who ordered Norton to do that cause let's not forget Norton IS still technically working for Orpheus as far as we still know).

Personally, I have also felt like Orpheus has more of a one dimensional view on Norton who he probably believes is solely motivated by greed and money...which surprisingly isn't the case (or unsurprisingly if you read Norton's lore with a critical eye).

Not to mention the fact that at this point, Orpheus has seen a great number of people come to the manor to fulfill their selfish and greedy desires at all costs. He's seen the worst of humanity...which contrasts Alice's view, while she has seen how bad humanity can be, there's a hope they can also be better (throwback to Eternity's lore??)

If it's the "canonical" path that leads to the events of the "final" manor game, then how would their alliance affect Orpheus? Well, considering how Norton looks to him in "Go Hunting" (see above as well), I guess not well...

In addition, considering we saw how distant it still feels Alice and Orpheus are in Cage of Yesteryear, I do wonder if their relationship will improve at all. It’s still crazy to me how Alice and freaking NORTON feel more in tune with each other. Granted, the latter is probably just using Alice for his own personal gain...maybe... (listen, I like the guy but I still feel wary for Alice’s sake).

Then again, why is he so comfortable in her room…? Or willing to take the lead here (see above) with her behind (not afraid to be backstabbed by her? Or betrayed or anything? Like, I just noticed that and it’s such a small thing but I feel it’s quite a big deal for someone like Norton who is usually a cautious and distrustful person…)

I have mentioned before how the body language in each of this scenes alone speaks volumes and I'm sure you can see it too without me spelling it out for you. I just find it fascinating, that's all.

ANYWAYS. Yeah, the fact that the person who you'd THINK would be closest to Alice, her former childhood friend who used to play with her all the time and whose promise helped her through her darkest days…is as foreign to each other as strangers.

Surely, when Alice founds out about Orpheus’ dealings, her perception changes of him…drastically. Very interesting…really interesting seeing the juxtaposition between Orpheus and Norton’s relationship with Alice. 

Ah, if only I could read the mind of a fictional character because seriously, what's he thinking here? That she's caught in his trap? That he's finally found a buddy? Bro's temperament is like the weather...ever changing like his eye color.

Welp, that’s enough rambling. That turned a bit too much into a read of Alice’s relationship with the boys at the end which, to be honest, is interesting in its own right but I think that’s a story for when Cage of Yesteryear drops and we get more lore. Can't wait to see how I'm utterly wrong about everything...

[sundae-nite]

A Little Ramble on Alice's View of Her Identity Switch Buddies

Art by fuzichoco.

(This post is not really to be taken seriously. This is just my thoughts splashed on the page for some giggles.)

In honor of the fact that it's Frederick's birthday tomorrow, I was thinking again about a statement from the design concept video for "Queen Bee" where they more or less confirm again that the way we see our beloved "Orpheus," Melly, and Norton as Hunters are due to Alice's perception of them under the influence of the drugs.

The exact words used in the video were: "The IDENTITY forms can be seen as projections of DeRoss' most dangerous interpretations of these three characters, shaped by the effects of the drugs and the high pressure environment she is in."

Which is really interesting as it basically confirms what I talked about in a post about the issue with identity switches months ago in response to people's gripes on Melly's Hunter design.

Basically, I mentioned that the main reason why we see them the way we do is because of Alice's perception of them being influenced by the drugs. Her projection of how dangerous they are is a new thing however.

See what they say about Melly, specifically:

"Externally, she is in the process of transforming into a bee, which is why she is still enveloped in a membrane with faint traces of her original form.

Unlike other IDENTITY characters, she exists in an intermediate state of transformation - a reflection of the observer's inner perception of her. The observer's perception of her had not yet been entirely overtaken by fear."

The second part is the most important because I know a lot of the disappointment in Melly's design was because she didn't look like a terribly bugged out Hunter, so yes, you can blame Alice for that I suppose.

Which makes it so interesting that "Orpheus" looks the "worse" of the three in terms of the fact he looks nothing like himself. Norton at least is humanoid despite looking as he does. He still appears quite dangerous thanks to mostly being made of rocks and having an off-putting smile. BUT "he "Fool's Gold" still resembles Prospector quite strongly...unlike our novelist.

From left to right, you can measure Alice's increasing fear towards Melly, Norton, and "Orpheus."

So...my question is...to Alice is, um, when it comes to Frederick, why is he appearing before her as a beautiful woman in a red dress?

The deadly elegance, the self-assured homicidal smile, the use of a simple mirror fragment and not that of a bulky weapon *cough* pickaxe *cough* made for poor ruffians, the graceful CLASS exuding from her (him?) - Oh, I fear Alice may have a type, guys.

Yes, this is kinda for giggles but while listening to the above about Melly and the others, I couldn't help but think of Frederick, too.

Like this man literally turned a gun on Alice and could've shot her and yet, he appears so charmingly and stunningly womanly. Mind you, Frederick is the only one that has openly threatened her in such a way as far as Alice knows.

Mind you, this woman doesn't even turn around immediately. It's only when "Orpheus" tells her that Frederick would be good with his gun due to callouses on his palm that she finally does turn around. (Btw, "Orpheus" should NOT know, but we already know they're in cahoots with each other).

Sure, you can count her encounter with Norton in the Darkwoods but due to the drugging afterwards and expertly putting her back in her room, it's probable Alice believed that to be a whole nightmare.

It appears that way at breakfast since her reaction to Norton is pretty normal (granted, you wouldn't be like "Hey, were you the guy in the woods chasing me with a pickaxe last night with a 'rocking' bod?" right after you introduce yourself).

This scene still lives rent-free in my mind cause Alice's face in response to Norton snarfing down his food is priceless.

But truly, Alice's senses for danger really be tingling in such a weird way with Frederick that it tickles me. Like, I understand Bloody Queen will probably not be his 1 to 1 identity switch but the fact Alice saw him like that in the first place is quite funny. I wonder how Frederick would react?

Also interesting that if we do count Bloody Queen, Alice saw Frederick as the least dangerous and her fear wasn't that great despite the threat of a gun in her face (but a man with a pen for a weapon and a monocle that sees into your soul is absolutely terrifying, mhm).

(I'm so sorry, I'm not making fun of Alice because she is right in being the most weary towards "Orpheus," I'm just messing about here. Don't persecute me, I love her.)

But in the end, I do wonder what they have in store for us with Frederick. My curiosity is endless and I look forward to his 5th birthday (cause these 5th portraits are everything for the "final" manor game crew since by then, we know of/have seen their switch.)

I haven't forgotten his EP with this scene here.

Also reflected in his background story PV here.

Side Ramble: This does make me stupidly curious about Emil. Considering we're dealing with the control group, no one but Emil should have really been given drugs. Though it seems as if Helena and Roy (or “Orpheus) do react to the drugs according to their number. So it’s possible that they saw him in such a way. I do wonder though considering that it seems as if Emil was apparently hidden away from the others. He isn’t even shown in the dinner scene in the Divergence trailer (though that could’ve been a one time thing). 

If I may indulge a little in wild thoughts, but despite Ada being partially seen in "Hertztier's" poster, I almost feel like it's really Emil himself whose perception of himself has terribly twisted and became degraded of himself.

Bringing this back.

His deduction notes, at least some of them, are pretty much enforcing having a more animal-like mentality and existence over a human one as well.

This wouldn't be far off from what I speculated before about the fact that while Alice is mostly responsible for Identity Switches being seen the way they are in the “final manor game,” and in Closing Night we had Margaretha with Joker and Violetta, the person in question are also responsible for appearing the way they are.

This notion was taken from "Fool's Gold's" design video: "If we conceptualize it, the identity of a character and the character itself are akin to the concepts of the id and Ego. Or, in other words, the difference between how other participants perceive this character and his self-perception."

This was more so to do with Norton being perceived as quiet, diligent, hardworking, etc. to others as opposed to the suppressed angry and ambitious man he covered up. Yet, I suppose if I can apply it to Emil, it would be more like it is Emil himself who is projecting what he believes of himself and what he believes others see of himself.

Could also explain why he has two forms but it could also just be the developers being like, yeah, we should step it up after Melly...but also keep that human side to him cause...cute. Cause I guess Emil could've been like Luchino, no? But I think perhaps the biggest difference between those two is Emil resisted his animalistic nature as opposed to Luchino who embraced his reptilian one.

But even his missing ring on "Hertztier" is maybe just his own perception. He knows he is deteriorating and before he loses himself completely probably ends up feeling less worthy and capable of Ada's love and the bond they shared. The ring symbolized that, so it had to go.

Though this is all conjecture and I'm probably completely wrong. Ever since "Hertztier" was revealed and the Divergence trailer dropped, all this has been on my mind.

I'll just end it here for my own good.

[sundae-nite]

Identity Switch Series #3: “Orpheus” Blanche

Oh boy, if I thought Alice’s post was a doozy, this one is going to be more daunting. Orpheus is also an equally complex and intricate character that a simple post won’t be able to possibly do justice in completely going over who this man is, what makes him tick, and why is he the way he is. I apologize in advance as I’m less knowledgeable about Orpheus but I’ll do my best!

If you missed it, I have two other Identity Switch posts:

Norton Campbell

Alice DeRoss

I plan to do everyone in the “final” manor game first before moving onto other identity switches, so can you guys guess who’s next then?

Anyways, I’ll also preface this post by saying that these are just my own thoughts and speculations. Since IDV’s lore is very vast and mind-bendingly complex, it can be open to interpretation. Considering we are talking about the man Orpheus himself aka the other main protagonist aka the man who’s the main story used to be centered around (and will most likely go back to)…God, you can only imagine the web we’re getting ourselves into…

SO! With that said, I’m certainly not going to get into everything. I’ll just focus on more or less the basics of this post.

Let’s get started:

Who is Orpheus? The man men behind the identity switch:

On the surface, Orpheus has 2 identities: Novelist and “Nightmare”. However, thanks to @quoththeowl31 who back in August (?) introduced me a post titled: “Trust Yourself: An Analysis/Theory of Orpheus, Nightmare, and Villain Charm” written by Violetta Best Girl (lovely name), I thought about how Orpheus technically does have 3 different identities.

Now, their post is quite long (just like mine~!) and very detailed in their analysis so I won’t get too into it so I really suggest you go and read what they have to write as I could never so succinctly explain everything.

However, the biggest thing they propose is that “Nightmare” doesn’t really exist. It’s actually Villain Charm and Novelist who are the true two identities co-existing in Orpheus’ body. Another major thing that they speculated is that Novelist very well knows that he is running the manor games, knows what they’re for and is a willing participant of them. It’s not “Nightmare” who runs the games at all, but Orpheus. The reason for his differing personality is just a mask he puts on that mimics Sam Bourbon’s personality in order to make sure the games are run right in the way he wants them to.

This is backed up by Melly's 2024 birthday letter where she describes meeting Orpheus for the first time vs. meeting him at the manor.

Melly knew what he was before she even properly met him. Look at that face and tell me she's not sussing him out.

Now, this is all very interesting and while I didn't 100% understand exactly where Violetta Best Girl was coming from at times (cause speculating is hard and sometimes my brain doesn't work), I can definitely say that I really liked their post and their way of thinking. As I said previously, I’m quite poor on knowing the details and subtle things about Orpheus though I know a little bit here and there.

Anyways, I will say that I can agree with “Nightmare” being a construction of the effects of the drugs (which they also mentioned by name…not gonna lie, dudes…I still get the drugs mixed up >.>). Considering Norton, Frederick, and Melly are all seen by Alice as deadlier and more malevolent beings than Orpheus as “Nightmare” makes sense.

In order to understand a very good bit about Orpheus, you must return to "Time of Reunion," the original story line when he was the main protagonist.

Fun fact: I have seen some people say that they replaced Orpheus with Alice because players got bored of him being the protagonist and...that's not the case. It was always intended to be that way and once Alice's story line is done or ends with an impasse then we will either move back to Orpheus' story 10 years in the future or arrive at the third story line.

From IDV's Journalist Concept Video. A third story line outside of Orpheus' perception has been confirmed. What does this mean exactly? Does this mean another protagonist separate from Alice and Orpheus? A background on how the games began and why? Only time will tell.

But for now, let's focus on Orpheus. I admittedly won't go into detail or summary of the events of "Time of Reunion" as I expect everyone who is reading this post will be familiar with it but if not, check out Kazxi on YouTube for the full story cutscenes.

Anyways, we have basically established from that part of the main story that most likely "Villain Charm" is another identity of Orpheus who was created by the novelist repeatedly being subjected to the manor games and having his memory wiped each and every time for his survival. While "Nightmare" is more than likely just a hallucination of how Alice sees Orpheus under the influence of the drugs.

However, I still can see "Nightmare" as an independent personality in his own right. It could also be a similar case that we have with Norton who struggles against his suppressed darker side.

I can't help but think of Endless Banquet, a song sung by the Japanese voice cast for the Final Manor game detailing why they came to the manor and how this is a very maddening crazy game indeed. For translated lyrics, click here.

One of the things Orpheus says in the song. Clearly, referencing his other self.

Now, the real question is, does he have Disassociative Identity Disorder(DID)? Well, it's a little complicated. While, in Violetta Best Girl's post, they described NetEase as showing a rather incorrect representation of DID, it's never officially been confirmed that he does have it though it does seem obvious they are alluding to such a thing.

Personally, I also can't say anything about DID as I'm not an expert or a professional. I do understand to this day it is still a highly controversial mental disorder that isn't fully understood. Heck, there are still people out there that don't believe it exists (not just in the general population but those in the medical field as well). Can you just imagine what the reception (read: stigma) would be in Orpheus' time?

Case in point: Orpheus in ToR ruminating over his other self and coming to terms with the fact that this other self may have done some...unscrupulous things he may not be aware about. But who'll believe him when he says another soul rests inside of him?

Granted, while DID hasn't been confirmed by the devs, other mental health issues plaguing Orpheus has:

Orpheus' medical record from the official website. Apparently, it's been accessible since 2017 (!) when the game was in beta.

The only official diagnosis of a disorder that he has received is Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) from one of the early official artbooks. Now, I kind of want to go off topic a bit by saying that these artbooks are only readily available in China. This goes for a lot of stuff that sometimes include lore. It sucks but it's the truth. We miss out on the little details of characters because it's either a China or Japan exclusive thing.

Reminds me of this tweet and in turn I was reminded of the fact that an official timeline that actually negated Orpheus wanting to adopt Alice being retconned was only available at a Japan-exclusive event this past summer. Like...okay...

Unfortunately, we just gotta work with what we got but this is a good time to say to those who love diving into the lore that it's okay to being heavily confused by it and be wrong in your speculations and guesses because both of the tweets shown above are SO SO valid.

And when we're talking about the likes of ORPHEUS who probably doesn't even know his own name, yeah...no, we're cooked.

Anyways, I understand this was a shorter one but for Orpheus, I personally don't feel absolutely confident in writing up a whole thesis on him like the other two.

But I will breakdown a bit on some other thoughts I had on him:

-The manor games are definitely being run by him, but he's not alone in his endeavors.

This is clear in the fact that running such games with so many people going missing and the authorities being apparently oblivious to the whole thing, you gotta have some strings being pulled in the background. Not to mention the fact that we know the games are being sponsored by the likes of the affluent and noble Barriere family.

Love my girl, Lily, happy belated birthday but her family is so sus.

We know she was sent to the manor on behalf of her grandfather, Count Barriere. Considering she is also possibly connected to Galatea (who is in Game 0 with Orpheus most likely)..I can only imagine Lily may in part be connected to the third story line, if not her, her family as Count Barriere owns both the land to Moon(lit) River Park and the Golden Cave two places featured already in their own respective story lines in game.

Oh, let's not forgot that Lily's brother, Simon, was a star horse racer in their family and would run races all the time on the Kreiburg Racecourse where he had his terrible accident that rendered him to have the mentality of an infant and too injured to ride again.

All these connections and I don't hear a lot on Lily...similar to Florian...maybe I should write a lil post on her as well.

But I heavily digress, though you have to admit the connections and ties to the main story and Orpheus himself are interesting.

-What's his deal with Alice and how does she tie into his end goal?

This is kinda an odd one to ask but I've wondered this since the very first day I started playing this game. I remember once seeing someone ask why didn't Alice and Orpheus seem to recognize each other in Ashes of Memory. The fact that's even a question someone has to ask shows how either well written or intentionally frustrating vague the story can be.

Because it should seem fairly obvious they know it's each other. Even if Alice is in the dark, which she isn't, she's astute and smart enough to put two and two together throughout AoM but even she says at one point that something is missing from her conjecture that this man is her missing childhood friend.

On the other hand, we have Orpheus also seemingly acting as if he doesn't know Alice. This is obviously false. I spent some time talking about this in my video waaaaaay back a while ago on some theories/questions about the manor game in a YT video:

Goodness, my first lore video. It's not great but it's at least one of those things you can put in the background like an audiobook (lol)

Obviously some things in the video are not up to date and I'm too embarrassed to look back at what was said, HOWEVER, I do know I mentioned that it's very unlikely Orpheus doesn't know that it's Alice by the fact that the entire "final" manor game feels like a set up for her.

Yes, I don't think her friend who brought her the letter to gain entry to the manor was coincidental in their timing. We don't even know much about her friend besides what they kinda look like (her face is obscured in the video). Not to mention the fact that Alice was in the middle of investigating the Golden Cave incident when she received the invitation and COINCIDENTALLY she meets the sole survivor of the incident at the manor, someone she had wanted to interview.

I still constantly think about the fact Alice very well knew Norton's name, face, and background before coming to the manor due to her investigation. I wrote about it a while ago if anyone wants to revisit that post. Whether it matters to the main story in the end, I don't know but interesting nevertheless.

Then we look at the manor itself and it's been made up to virtually be one for one with how the manor looked back when she and Orpheus were kids. Heck, even the piano, which was destroyed in the raid, was restored. Paintings that were stolen are back in place.

Like, even the manor staff, butlers and maids, are there to attend to the participants.

Where was all this care and TLC towards the manor when other groups attended? Look at the diary entries for Game 4 or Game 9 and see how decrepit and dreary the manor is. The participants had to make their own food and things around the manor weren't working as they should. This is the same in the Closing Night if you want more of a recent example. There is no staff around and they had to make their own rather pathetic dinner. The manor also does feel warm and inviting.

Okay, bread is a very valid dinner...okay, no no it's not. They need more nutrition than carbs!

But look at the state of the place when Alice comes, so spotless and welcoming that it feels it's definitely a cover up for something.

Besides that, considering it's clear Orpheus has been keeping tabs on Alice at least since her time in the orphanage through her time in Australia, it seems odd he wouldn't know it's her when she finally appears back at the manor even under a pseudonym and probably a lil more grown up than before (but surely not enough to look unrecognizable). Also, a remainder, that Alice was supposed to go to the manor in disguise but she didn't. if she had, this argument of mine may have crumbled.

Considering everyone in the manor game ends up falling in step with Orpheus' plans whether that's Frederick out on the racecourse or Norton in the Darkwoods, it seems far from coincidentally that all these events are happening to Alice just because "oh protagonist things."

Another question I had was why does Orpheus not drug Alice himself and leave it up to Norton (who he surely doesn't like/trust much)? Surely, Norton probably didn't volunteer to do it...did he? I mean, if he knew he'd get more money then sure. But I wonder if this will be cleared up in any way in CoY because it's a small thing that will continue to bother me immensely if not.

But that doesn't answer the question on what exactly he wants from her or what he wants to do to her. I mean, yeah, we have the lore videos but that's another Orpheus whose memory has been "rebuilt" in a way that is certainly unreliable and possibly just completely made up.

I'm talking about the "Sam Bourbon" wannabe who instigates drama and trauma within the very people who he invites to the manor and has no qualms drugging his apparent loved one over and over again.

Yes, his paradise is nearly rebuilt and his beloved as returned but then a paradise built on the bodies of innocents and the wretched will never have a hope of remaining as it stands but will ultimately fail especially when one is at odds with oneself. And when you have a lil pesky journalist who has moved on from the past and seeks to understand the truth without being chained down to it comes along and ruins it.

Especially when she somehow convinces those he probably weren't suspecting of being on her side even the likes of a seemingly greedy selfish miner to be on her side.

The fact NetEase put a spin on the legend of "Orpheus and Eurydice" to have it so Hades and Persephone (but especially the former) don't appear to be the "bad guys" who kept the couple apart and it's Orpheus instead who needs to be kept away from Eurydice is so interesting and a brilliant twist. But do they succeed?

Also, reminds me of this and it's more food for thought.

I've already mentioned in previous posts how Orpheus feels about Melly but especially Norton (in my opinion, so nothing concrete as I'm only guessing). Orpheus seems fine, if not, cautious towards Melly while he appears to dislike Norton outright.

The fact that quoththeowl31 pointed out to me that Norton reminds Orpheus of his father (both working class men who seemingly will do nothing to harm, if not outright kill those around them in order to fulfill their own selfish desires).

If this is the case, his perception of Norton is quite one dimensional but also, it's understandable given how many people he's seen come to the manor who were just like Norton yet, in the prospector's case it may be worse since it appears he gets more comfortable with Alice.

Oh, did I forget to mention how it's interesting that Norton in Orpheus' vision as a hunter resembles his dad a bit?

I don't know...big bulky tallish men despite the fact Norton is way more leaner and even smaller than the average miner, Orpheus still imagines him the opposite way. Another food for thought.

Anyways, I'll truly end it there because surprisingly I went on more of a tangent than I thought. Similar to Alice and Norton, Orpheus has a lot to unpack and considering his story is still ongoing, it's tough to piece everything together. Considering there's even a third part of the main story that is outside his own perception, it'll be interesting to see if and how he ties into it and what that'll mean for his character.

With Cage of Yesteryear just over a week away from now, I guess we'll definitely become more privy to the many identities of Orpheus even if that's at the cost of our sanity.

Oh boy, can't wait to see how he drugs Alice in CoY. It's probably a need at this point for him to do so.