Books I’ve read lately; for both men and women. Yet women, my sisters in Christ, I encourage you to read any of these as great encouragement of being a woman of God which makes us a hearty combination of courage and tenderness. Faith and fortitude. These women’s lives are inspiring and real; true womanhood never ceases to amaze me with how beautiful and gutsy it is. Next up I’ll be reading Amy Carmichael biography. 📚
MR: LOL! Praise GOD I love that. Okay so you arrive
in Hong Kong, & you ultimately minister in the
Walled City. [15:46]
The descriptions in your book of the Walled
City, it was... you know: Why don't you just
describe for our viewers maybe just put it in
to words, I don't know like
What is the Walled City?
Why did it exist?
What was it like?
Maybe give us some of those images & pictures of
just what it's like when you walk in through those
alleyways. [16:19]
Interview With Jackie Pullinger P1,2,3,4,5,6 | Remnant Radio
Interview With Jackie Pullinger P1,2,3,4 | Remnant Radio
Since we have Jackie with us, if you have questions
drop them into the live comment section.
if we see a few of them that are like man those are
exceptional, we're gonna toss them, and love them
over to Jackie to see what her thoughts are on those
But without further ado, if you haven't subscribed
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You should jump on that bandwagon.
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free without further ado this is the clan
Michael we're really excited about this episode. Jackie
I want to introduce you in just one moment but I really
want Michael to blow a lot of positive smoke—before
we dive into it, Michael. [1:38]
How excited are you that we're interviewing Jackie?
Michael Rowntree:'I am flipping excited!
OK so Jackie Pullinger she wrote this book right
here, “Chasing The Dragon.”
You guys should read it. It's an amazing book &
an amazing story of just the way GOD works and
I don't want to give away the story.
We're going to kind of unpack a little bit of it here
today, but what an awesome meet! Jeff who was
an inspiration to my mentor, Jack Deer & then now
Sam Storms as I'm in OKC now.
Sam talks about you a lot Jackie!
And just an inspiration to so many people and I've
watched you speak, gosh it was at an IHOP thing so
I know you're associated with Mike Bickel a little..
But Jackie WOW! Just your story & the slow boat to
China & all that, we're gonna unpack a lot of it but
it's a real honor to have you on the show.
So thank you so much, & guys we actually had to
trick Jackie to get her to come on camera. [2:39]
Ah Jackie, it was an accident. But there's a little
confusion about Remnant Radio being a video
podcast, so Josh you're the one who named this
thing why'd you call it..
Josh Lewis: I'll take responsibility for it this time Michael
I really will. It was bad branding, nobody thought we
were gonna take off on YouTube.
We thought we were gonna do a podcast, so radio
made sense at the time. Aghhhh I've got no good
answers. [3:09]
MR: So there you go, but hey that's how we got
Jackie Pullinger! So here she is,
JL: I suppose LOL
MR: Jackie, are you there?
JP: I'm here, Oh now I can see me! Oh dear
MR: LOL, okay so Jackie you are in Hong Kong at the
moment & so that's why it's 9 p.m our time &
it's morning for you.
Well Jackie maybe you could just start out take
us to just beginning of your life, how you got
saved & called into Missions.
Just kind of, I know that maybe two different
stories, but just take us to your early life—we
want to do a little biography here
Life is Ministry | Jackie Pullinger [John 8:37-39]
John 8:37-39 | The Truth Will Set YOU Free
I know you are Abraham’s descendants, but you are
trying to kill ME because MY Word has no place with
in you. ³⁸ I speak of what I have seen in the presence
of the FATHER, & you do what you have heard from
your father.” ³⁹ “Abraham is our father,” they replied.
“If you were children of Abraham,” said JESUS, “you
would do the works of Abraham.
Sixty prayer shifts & if we take four people off drugs
that's 240. [48:30]
I know you understand numbers here because you
have prayer shifts—also with people. So there we
were, people coming to the LORD & growing up &
doing rather well.
Then leaving, and doing rather well. Then leaving,
yes it is like that with the poor, one thing you must
never do is to try to identify leaders too soon.
It's killing, you cannot. [49:22]
They're not there for you to shape your future
Ministry, or run it, or inherit it! They are there
to be loved, and cared for. And allowed to fail
because they're worth it!
Because HE died for them & HE died for me &
thought apparently I was [worth it]
So it didn't look that good.
Because they came & they went. [50:01]
5.1] Putting to Death the Old Man
Romans 6:6 | ⁶ We know that our old self was
crucified with HIM so the body of sin might be
rendered powerless, that we should no longer
be slaves to sin.
There was one called Ah-Chow, I loved Ah-Chow.
I'd met him & told him about JESUS & he received
JESUS—he was a gangster from another gang. I had
met him again in court.
It's a long story.
When he saw me in court, he had decided to plead
guilty, instead of not guilty—which he was going to
plead. But because he caught he saw me out of the
corner of his eye..
It's a long story, eventually Ah-Chow says he really
wants to get off drugs & he comes to live with us.
On day two, he changed his mind.
Now people do
……………………………………………………………………..………..
It's called the old man in the new man
……………………………………………………………………..………..
We've learned to listen to the new man, not to talk
to the old man. “I don't expect you to understand.”
But he said,
“Now I've decided I don't want to follow
JESUS after all. I think I need to leave…”
So I said, “You cannot leave, we're going to pray in
tongues & you'll be fine.” And he said, “I will not!
I'm leaving & you cannot stop me.”
And I said, “I will. You see, I believe you when you
said 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝘄𝗮𝗻𝘁𝗲𝗱 𝘁𝗼 𝗳𝗼𝗹𝗹𝗼𝘄 𝗝𝗘𝗦𝗨𝗦. That is what I
believe. I don't believe what you're saying now.”
He said, “I will jump!”
We were living on the seventh floor at that time.
I've rented or borrowed over 300 places over the years
to pray people off drugs. This one was on a 7th floor &
he said, “I'm gonna jump.”
I'm terrified of heights, so I turned my back & said OK,
he disappeared & later on I looked & I couldn't see a
puddle at the bottom—so I went to the lady in the
apartment next door.
The balconies are a long way apart, but I thought he
might have done it—so she was an Indian, and I said
“Would you mind if I looked on your balcony? I've
lost a boy,” & she said “oh yes, I am having a difficult
son—so I understand.”
So I looked on her balcony, I couldn't see anything &
I came back. I think I'll look again. Drug addicts are
very clever—very clever!
He was hiding in a corner.
I don't know how he could have hidden, but there he
was—so she said, “Oh you are having a good time with
your son?” Yes & so anyway, he refused to go into the
apartment where we were praying him off drugs.
Who was helping me?
At that time no one, but over the years we've had lots
of people who've come for a while & some people who
have come here today with me.
—who've stayed many years & he said:
“I'm not going in! I'm leaving”
And I said, “I'm not going to let you leave.”
I held onto the stair banisters,” & he said, “I'll scream.”
I said, “Okay scream, but I'm not letting you go.” So he
screamed & he really screamed. The neighbors started
walking down the stairs..
“My difficult son, you know.”
The screaming didn't work & he said, “I'm gonna strip!”
So I said, “Okay strip.” Well he did, but he only down to
the underpants.
And I wondered why he went only that far? You know,
so eventually he got exhausted, I outlasted him and
the brothers who were in the apartment saw that he
was tired & said, “Come & take a bath!”
And so we took him into the apartment.
They discovered why he'd left the underpants on:
because he had 6 watches stuffed down his
underpants—which he was going to pawn
when he ran away. So yeah very smart.
Anyway there was nothing for it after the bath.
He started reluctantly to pray in tongues; &
of course after that, he went straight asleep.
The LORD is so kind & the next day:
Day three, I remember him coming into the sitting
room & saying I have so much to learn: We started
the miracle is one thing, the growing up is another..
5.2] Disappointing Lack of Growth [55:22]
We've seen them come, we've seen them go.
And apparently sometimes we have had nothing to
show—& I read about my friends in other countries
running their groups & multiplying their cells.
And having civilized alpha dinners.
You don't have alpha here, no it's very civilized; & we
were losing them as fast as we were gaining them.
Persevere says the LORD.
One day it somehow seemed to turn around.
• We kept four, then there were five.
• We lost three & so on & so on
And I don't know why it happened
It doesn't matter where it happened:
You see for me I would stay.
Anyway you understand.
I'd lost my Ministry.
I was no longer a street Evangelist—I was a reluctant
house mother trapped looking after these men who
didn't seem to be changing quickly.
Then one day, somehow there we were:
The government lent us some tin huts & believers
from all over Hong Kong used to come & worship
with us—It got to be quite well known.
Testing of Your Faith 1,2,3,4,5,6 | Jackie Pullinger [Hebrews 12:1-3]
But I was delighted, & then came the HOLY SPIRIT to
bring people off drugs miraculously. [38:30]
The first one was somebody who had been sent to
guard me because my youth cup got smashed up &
I won't tell you that long story.
But he was sent to guard me after it had been
smashed up; it's a very small room — just big
enough for ping-pong table. [38:54]
And they painted sewage on the walls & broke the
windows & these were the people that I loved.
You know I'd spent by this time six years with them
& I'd got their sisters into school — I had paid their
gambling debts.
I'd looked after their grandmothers, you know doing
what what I call normal Gospel. That's what you do,
anyway. [39:32]
Then they smashed the place up.
Anyway there was a man sent to guard me on that
first night after I cleaned up, & he stood, he didn't
come in to the room.
The street is just two or three feet wide.
You understand it's dark & he stood there & he said
“You got any problems?” & I said you know I'm fine,
thanks who are you?
And he said, “Well KauKau has sent me.”
And Coco was the name of the gang leader, & there
were two main gangs in the Walled City 14K another
one called Gaing-Gee.
So he was in charge of about 20,000 people which is
part of the opium dens & gambling dens & women,
& protection rackets.
Not just in world city, outside as well.
But they could hide in there because they couldn't
be arrested & so he said KauKau sent me & KauKau
says if anyone touches you or touches your place
We're going to do him
……………………………………………………………………….…….
And I said “Thank you it's really that's very kind
of you, but please will you go back and tell him
I don't accept his offer because JESUS is looking
after me.” [40:51]
……………………………………………………………………….…….
And he said, “Lay chee-shin!”
You know she's cracked because his job in the gang
was to fix fights, & he chose whether it was knives
or choppers or bottles or whatever.
So although I refused his offer, I got his protection
anyway—& every time I came in/out of the Walled
City, there were about 16 entrances.
—just you wouldn't know it was the entrance to a
city, it just looked like a little passage you had to
squeeze into because they wouldn't let outsiders
or people they didn't want inside.
So every time I came in, I got this man's protection
……………………………………………………………………….…….
And I knew he was an opium addict, but he didn't
know I knew—and he started to tell me about his
friend & could I help his friend off opium. [41:58]
……………………………………………………………………….…….
And I said, "Oh that's really easy you know, we will
just find a house in the countryside where nobody
will hear him screaming, & we will prep.
—preferably we'll pad it, so he won't kill himself
when he goes crazy. We'll lock him in & after three
days, we'll let him out, because after three days he
will be off drugs.
4.1] Problem of the Heart
It just takes 72 hours for the stuff to get out of the
bloodstream—of course the problem is once you
have opened the door, he will go straight back to
drugs because drugs is not a problem of the body
— it's a problem of the heart. [42:34]
Testing of Your Faith 1,2,3,4,5,6 | Jackie Pullinger [Hebrews 12:1-3]
The Testing of Your Faith | Jackie Pullinger [Hebrews 12:1-3]
1.2] FOMO: Fear of Missing Out
And I think that there are many of us who think I am
gonna miss out on what GOD's got for me—someone
else is going to get my portion.
You know just like some people think if I don't go for
this man—someone else is going to get him. I mean
that's terrible. [12:14]
What? Why would we think we have to lay hold of
what GOD may not have planned for us? Though we
hope so.
This is what the LORD says about Caleb, in v.10, HE
has kept me alive for 45 years — since the time HE
said this to Moses. [Joshua 14:10]
While Israel moved about in the desert.
So here I am 85 years old [trembling voice]
No he didn't speak like that because he said I am still
strong today as the day Moses sent me out. I'm just as
vigorous to get out to battle now—as I was then.
Now give me this hill country that the LORD promised
me that day—whatever the LORD has made you for HE
is not going to give it to somebody else.
It is kept for you, & if you will not do it—I don't believe
HE hands it round, I believe it is kept for you because
you are so important to HIS plan, and no one else can
bring the Kingdom in that place for those people
—except you, who are created for that race, that goal,
that land, that inheritance, those people. [13:52]
And we're going to pray later for the old that you will
be reassured, if you thought you'd missed it—but it is
kept for you & you can claim it.
And you must & I'm going to pray for the young, this is
what it says in Jeremiah 12:5 [I love the Scripture] If
you have raced with men on foot, & they've worn you
out. How will you compete with horses — if you have
stumbled in safe country?
How will you manage by the thickets in the Jordan?
It's a great verse look it up.
HE's actually saying you need training for your race, if
you give up because you're worn out, then you may
never get to see all that HE's prepared for you.
……………………………………………………………………………
And may never learn all of the heart that HE wants to
share with you, cause you'd given up out of weariness
or disappointment.
……………………………………………………………………………
1.3] Commit: Persevere Thru Thick & Thin
Hebrews 10:36 says you need to persevere. It says that
when you have done the will of GOD, you will receive
what is promised. [15:25]
Perseverance [very good word] there it's not a word
for this generation—and it's hard for this generation
because they have a bad time at school or their boy-
friend doesn't give them flowers.
And they send a sad face everybody is stroking them
instantly when people come to join us in Hong Kong
—their parents are mad with us if they haven't texted
within 10 seconds of landing.
It was much easier for me:
I made my first phone call home after one year
I had to book it and take a bus to the telephone
station & I could just afford two minutes & you
know my family they're hopeless on the phone
You know because we had a money box by ours
& it was in a cold place deliberately & so I'd say
Oh happy Christmas Daddy
Oh happy Christmas Jackie I'll give you to
mummy. Happy Christmas Jackie I'll give
you to Nicky, Happy Christmas Jackie, I'll
give you to Julie.
You know that was how it went, they all said I'll give
you to someone you know that was so much easier
for me, you see. So much easier because when I left
—I left. [17:10]
1.4] Case in Point
And when we are to go & preach the Gospel, we are
to leave. Abraham was to leave, and today is so hard
for young people because they take all their friends
with them.
We had a young lady, she won't mind me telling you
this story — but she came from a very well-known
Christian family, very famous, from England.
And she arrived & it was everything that she decided
was extremely subjective: What is the LORD saying to
me now? I am the opposite, I'm objective: What does
the LORD say in HIS Word, & then how does this work
out for me?
Okay not yet, so she had to you know:
Do I leave this Wednesday or do I leave in two weeks
time? I must pray you know & I said there's a job to do
Could you please decide to do the job & then leave?
You know, but anyway: I must pray about it…
......................................................................................
& I knew what she was doing, she was checking with
her friends on the machine, you know “friends” & see
how many likeys she got. [18:27]
......................................................................................
And to myself, I said she's got a Greek chorus — you
probably don't understand that do you? It's classical
you know in classical Greek plays, they had a Greek
chorus that were always wailing on the side.
Oh she's gone for the Greek chorus again, you know.
1.5] Perspective of the Poor
You know, now it's very hard when you're living with
the poor, one of the first things the poor always asks
visitors is: When are you leaving?
In case they're disappointed—one more person has
come to look at us & say they've helped us for three
weeks or three months or six months.
And you know what?
Most of the people who live with us, they've
been beaten, they have been sold, they have
been raped, they've been abandoned & they
just want family.
They want people who will love them & stay
with them & not add them to their Missionary
tally & trips I have made..
They really that's what they want to know:
How long are you staying? [20:08]
Eventually this wonderful girl, she married one of our
men—who was also from Britain, he was helping and
I discovered that as I was saying to myself—the Greek
chorus.
There was a Greek chorus, she & her friends had made
a pact—that they would consult themselves on every-
thing in Greece, where they had villas & things like that
because that's the family they came from — but it is
so hard for young people is it not? When you have to
check with your friends, the will of GOD, like HE not
likey & be prepared to miss all their weddings.
• I missed most of my family's weddings
• I missed my mother dying
• I missed my father dying
I just wasn't there. I couldn't, couldn't, get back in time.
[like JESUS at Lazarus' grave, John 11:38-44]
But you think I missed anything?
Just a little bit on this Earth, but as both of them
had come to the LORD before they died, so what
have I missed?
I will be with them for eternity.
I don't have to have it all.
Yeah you need to persevere.
I came up with this little phrase:
Patience we need. What's the opposite of patience?
You think it's impatience? It's not — the opposite of
patience is unbelief. When I first went to Hong Kong
& got involved with well it's a very long story.
But I was in this walled city & if you think it is brave,
it wasn't brave. I really loved it, it was quite easy for
me to be there.
So Mike got it wrong.
It wasn't ten acres, it was about six acres with a 100K
people, and no electricity when I first got there.
Just later on, they stole electricity from outside.
It was left out of the treaty between Britain & China
that's why there was no law; & although there wasn't
any law there, there were a lot of corrupt policemen
—who knew what was going on and used it, who got
a huge amount of bribe money from the drug dens,
which were just outside walled city..
where you could see 100 people at a time
chasing the dragon—which is a method of
inhaling heroin.
And it was at that time that they would pile
the bodies up, of the addicts, who died in
the night by the only toilet which was just
outside the walled city.
[Toilet with] no water, you know, so it was one of
those awful toilets you've got to see if you can go
in one breath. But I saw this walled city & the old
people & old ladies with needle marks in the back
of their hands.
That is because the veins, in other places, have been
used up, & those old ladies sat on boxes in the street
and they were guarding the young girls — who were
prisoners.
The young prostitutes, that's what you must do if
you have been a young prostitute. You don't have
insurance plan, & you end up guarding when you
are older.
But they were all heroin addicts & then the opium
dens & the gambling dens, & the girls themselves
& the boys who joined the gangs.
There was no compulsory school in those days and it
wasn't free, & I looked at all the men just outside the
walled city—because it was the squatter area, just as
dark lining up after they'd taken their drugs.
And I knew that most of them would be dead
within a year, and I remember saying,
“Dear LORD it would be worth my whole life,
if YOU would use me to save just one & by the
way LORD I don't need to know who.
I'm just asking YOU, if I can be in it.
So wasn't hard for me, I was really happy to be there
forever & not see anything. I didn't understand I met
a lot of depressed Missionaries.
I didn't write about depressed Missionaries because
I don't want to write negative things. But they mostly
just come out of China.
Because I was there in the 60's, & they'd mostly come
out of China & they said “there's a dark spiritual cloud
on Hong Kong. Nobody gets saved.”
And they didn't see anything happen.
I didn't know.
I didn't understand why they would be depressed because
it says in 1 Corinthians 15:58 I have to look it up oh yeah not
1 Corinthians 15:58 | ⁵⁸ Therefore, my beloved fellow
believers, be steadfast & immovable. Always excel in
the work of the LORD, because you know your labor
in the LORD is not in vain.
therefore be steadfast unmovable always abounding in the
work of the LORD knowing that nothing you do in the LORD's
Name is in vain.
……………………………………………………………………..
So I was thinking: Oh it doesn't matter if I never
see anything happen, it won't be wasted.
……………………………………………………………………..
Now you have to believe this!
This is what HE said, nothing you do in the Name of
the LORD is in vain—it is hard if we're growing up in
an age which counts where if somebody's apparently
led a thousand people to the LORD.
You think they've done better than you.
It's not true!
We are only to be obedient to what HE's called us to:
To heal the sick, to love the poor, to share
our food, to open a home, cast out demons,
all along the way.
The results are up to HIM. One sows & one
reaps & HE says I sent you to reap what you
have not worked for—others have done the
hard work & you have reaped the benefits
of their labor.
There are so many Scriptures that teach us that, one
sows & one reaps them — the one who reaps is not
better than the one who sows.
It's the LORD WHO brings the harvest, so I was happy
you see to be there. And see nothing happened be-
cause I knew there'd be a harvest.
HE said faint not, there will be a harvest.
If you faint not at the proper time, we will reap a
harvest—the problem is we're expecting to reap
the harvest of what we've sown..
when most of the time, we're going to reap
the harvest of what someone else is sown &
I find that people get stuck in positions I am
just sowing, I'm just sowing or nothing is
happening here…
I'm going to go to where the harvest is, so
they take planes to wherever revival happens
to be happening & I tell you the poor cannot
take planes.
And over the years, I've seen so many people rush
off to the latest move of GOD — while people are
starving.
I tell you there will be a move of GOD, if you will
stay & feed the starving—you take a plane to where
a revival is happening, you take a plane & you say:
if we pray enough it will get to the ends of
the Earth, it will not get to the ends of the
Earth until you leg-it!!!
That is how the Gospel came!
The Gospel came not with a Message from Heaven,
but with a SON WHO came in flesh, there is not a
substitute for going and legging it physically—and
going and serving with your hands physically..
Because that's what JESUS did for us, and that's what
John, that's what Peter.. he said our eyes have seen
our hands have touched! [30:31]
HE dwelt amongst us.
That's what they were so excited about the
incarnation of the love of GOD demonstrated
in the person of JESUS CHRIST, WHO touched
—WHO healed, WHO loved, WHO lifted up
those who cast down!!!!!!!!!
The Testing of Your Faith P1,2,3,4,5 | Jackie Pullinger [Hebrews 12:1-3]
