#jane dormer

[aperol2thespritz]

this old thing i found-

[historicconfessions]

[arty-e]

I put in an actual effort on this background! I never do backgrounds!!! :0

Anyway here are the ‘ladies’ of waiting of Six the Kids

[ratscraftz]

(based off mine and @super-nova5045's dms)

Jane Dormer when susry: omg yes queens

Jane Dormer when richrey: ew cooties :/

[maximumphilosopheranchor]

Do you think Mary I really came to think Elizabeth I was the daughter of Mark Smeaton? Or was just some kind of petty but politically-oriented commentary to exclude her sister from the succession? People usually dismiss it as a non-important comment made by an angry sister, but Henry VIII had this ability to end up believing his own lies, and Mary could have inherited it...

First, I would like to talk a bit about the origins of this commentary. It comes from “The Life of Jane Dormer, Duchess of Feria” written in the 17th century by one Henry Clifford who had served the duchess for some time. It’s thought that he began working on it after the duchess’s death in 1612. So despite the duchess being Mary’s friend this work was created long after Mary’s death and the author himself wasn’t an eyewitness to the events of Mary’s life.

The relevant passage goes like this:

“We see how different were the mothers of these two queens, and of the latter the father might be doubted, for Queen Mary would never call her sister, nor be persuaded she was her father’s daughter. She would say she had the face and countenance of Mark Smeaton, who was a very handsome man.”

https://archive.org/details/lifejanedormerd00stevgoog/page/n107/mode/2up?q=sweton

Now, the statement “Queen Mary would never call her sister“ to me rings as an exaggeration at best and false at worst because I’m pretty sure that there are accounts from Mary’s lifetime of Mary referring to Elizabeth as sister. And if this is not entirely true then how can we know that Mary indeed had said the rest? Because although Mary was reported calling Elizabeth illegitimate and a bastard it appears (correct me if I’m wrong!) that there’s no other source that would corroborate this particular claim, like this is the only source that says that Mary doubted Elizabeth’s paternity and has her saying that her father was someone else than Henry. Honestly, it always baffles me why historians so easily take this claim as a fact because to me it seems very possible that Jane Dormer/Henry Clifford out of their own desire to put down Elizabeth might have ascribed to Mary more than she actually said, especially since Mary herself has long been dead when this work was written. In other words, I’m far from sure that Mary ever said it.

On the other hand, the ambassadors (for example, Simon Renard and the Venetians) during Mary’s reign consistently reported of Mary’s hatred towards Elizabeth and Mary considered to declare Margaret Douglas as her successor so I think she was capable of making such a comment in some spiteful outburst. But even if she did say it I don’t think that she really believed it.

P. S. Also, that phrase “she would say she had the face and countenance of Mark Smeaton, who was a very handsome man“ kind of amuses me because it seems to implicate that Mary/Jane Dormer/Henry Clifford found Elizabeth too beautiful to be Henry’s daughter?

[bforbetterthanyou]

William Camden writing that Anne Boleyn was born in 1507 has always been more than enough for me. I don't really rate Jane Dormer that highly in support of the 1507 argument though, because she got a lot of things wrong that are easy to verify as wrong (she said Anne's execution was on May 14, she said Mary I never referred to Elizabeth as her sister when she did in letters, several times, including one to Cromwell in 1536)

Yeah I understand why people like to dismiss Jane Dormer as a source. There were definitely many things she got wrong and she was clearly very biased against Anne.

But like you said, William Camden pretty explicitly said Anne was born in 1507 and he was writing during Elizabeth’s lifetime.

[minervacasterly]

A Lady Worth Remembering

6 January, 1538: Birth of Jane Dormer, daughter of Sir William Dormer and Mary Sidney.

She was a leading lady in waiting to Mary I. After her mistress’ death she married Count Gomez Suarez de Figueroa of Feria, one of the few Spaniards respected in the English court during Mary ‘s reign. Ten days before her mistress’ death, following her orders, she arrived at Elizabeth’s state in Hatfield with Sir Thomas Cornwallis and John Boxall delivering some of Mary’s jewels, along with a request that she should pay the Queen’s debts and maintain Catholicism. There is no real evidence however that she visited Elizabeth or that she accompanied her husband two days later as she would later claim. When Count de Feria arrived to Elizabeth’s household to interview her about future relations with Spain, Elizabeth responded very coolly that she owed her release from the Tower to English citizens not to Philip of Spain (despite his active in role in advocating for her), and that she would refuse any help from him should the need arise against any opposition.

Count de Feria would later report that “she is a vain woman” and that she would conduct affairs “in the manner which her father” had done. His fears regarding the coming regime were also shared by his future wife Jane whom he married a month later after Mary’s death, in December 29, 1558. He left England the following year and Jane followed him two months later in July.

Feria was made a Duke in 1567 making Jane a Duchess but their joy was short-lived as he died four years later. Jane would never return to her country of birth again and when she left England, she took with her, her grandmother, Lady Dormer and Mary’s former friend and other leading lady in waiting, Susan Clarencius.

[anastasianikolaevnaromanova]

ladies in waiting: mary i of england