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Interview: Kami Cotler, Young Elizabeth on ‘The Waltons’ Celebrates Her Other Family

I was thrilled to attend the Waltons Weekend a few days ago at Will Geer’s Theatricum Botanicum just outside of Los Angeles. The event was a fundraiser for the spectacular outdoor theater founded by the late Will Geer (who played Grandpa Zebulon Walton on the long-running show). The reunion of cast members from the TV series (The Waltons began with the 1971 TV movie The Homecoming and then continued on as a series for nine seasons on CBS followed by six reunion movies in the 80s and 90s) was warm and very moving.

We got tours of the grounds from Will Geer’s family members who still run the theater, had the chance to mingle with the visiting cast members, watched a video of 92-year-old Earl Hamner, Jr. (who created the show based on his own childhood in Virginia) receiving the Will Geer Humanitarian Award, and participated in a very fun Q&A with the cast. We were also treated to two songs by the talented Judy Norton (who played Mary Ellen) and got to bid on Waltons memorabilia in a fun auction hosted by Eric Scott (Ben) and Mary McDonough (Erin). The photo above was taken during Saturday’s Q&A and features the following cast members: Martha Nix Wade (Serena Burton), Cissy Wellman (Cissy Tucker, Yancy Tucker’s wife), Michael Learned (Olivia), Kam Cotler (Elizabeth), Mary McDonough (Erin), Leslie Winston (Cindy, Ben’s wife), Eric Scott (Ben), Judy Norton (Mary Ellen); kneeling: Radames Pera (guest star), Ellen Geer (Will Geer’s daughter and guest star).

Last week I had the chance to talk to Michael Learned, the matriarch of the clan, who told me how close she felt to her Walton kids, even after she left the series. After so many years, I finally had the chance to thank her for the sweet letter she wrote to me when I was a little boy and suffering from the trauma of my parents’ divorce. I turned to The Waltons every week for comfort, as so many people did.

I also wrote to some of my “brothers” and “sisters” during that difficult time. Judy Norton sent me a letter written on a ripped piece of notebook paper. I remember opening that letter and feeling like I was reading a note from a sibling, complete with typical childlike mistakes (“Your right about the mags”). I must have been trashing the fan magazines of the day, looking for some way to bond with my TV sister. I was very excited when I received this letter from Eric Scott because he wrote it on the back of a page of the script from that week’s show. I felt very special when the episode aired later that season and I could read along with my copy of the script. The episode was the one Michael mentioned to me last week when Olivia goes on strike because she felt her family wasn’t helping enough around the house. It was something that actually happened in Michael’s household and she had suggested the idea to Earl Hamner. Reading Eric’s letter, I see that I was again looking to bond with my Walton kin, this time by dissing their saccharine TV competitors. “I personally don’t like The Brady Bunch,” he wrote in response. “It is very fake.”

Still basking in the nostalgic glow of the weekend and the real feelings these people clearly still have for each other, I had coffee this week with Kami Cotler who played youngest child Elizabeth Walton. Since leaving acting, Kami has had a brilliant career as a progressive educator and principal. I don’t know what they put in the water on Walton’s Mountain, but Kami and the rest of the cast have defied the aging process and look they just moseyed on up from Drusilla’s Pond. I had such a good time talking to “my little sister” about what it was like to be on a TV show at such a young age.

Danny Miller: The Waltons Weekend was so much fun — it’s always great to see you guys back together. Did you ever go to Will Geer’s Theatricum Botanicum when you were on the show?

Kami Cotler: Yes, I went there a couple of times as a kid, and I definitely took my own kids there. It’s such a beautiful place.

I was impressed that people had come from all over the world for the event. And there were plenty of younger fans, too.

That’s the fascinating part, to see all those fans who are younger than me. How is that possible?

The show is obviously still beloved by many people. I also love how it crosses all political lines even though there have been attempts by the conservative right to co-opt the show. I always think, “Do they know who Will Geer and Ralph Waite and Earl Hamner are?”

And do they know who the Waltons are? I remember that famous line when President Bush said, “There should be more families like the Waltons and fewer like the Simpsons.” I thought that was funny for him to say since the Waltons were die-hard New Deal Democrats!

It seems unusual for a TV show cast to love each other as much as you all seem to.

For us it’s normal. I don’t think I even realized how strange it was until we were doing one of the reunion movies when I was an adult and some of the makeup people said, “Wow, you guys really like each other?” They had done reunion shows where that was definitely not the case!

One of the most moving things for me last weekend was when they played that wonderful monologue from Will Geer as Grandpa and how emotional you all got listening to his voice.

Wasn’t that gorgeous? Mary just lost it!

I know — and to see her sobbing in Michael Learned’s arms was so moving, just like a real mother and daughter who are missing an older relative.

Michael has such a big heart, she always comforts everyone.

You made The Homecoming when you were six years old, the same age my son is now. In a million years, I couldn’t imagine him taking direction and giving a performance like that.

Neither could my mom! Especially since it was the very first thing I ever did. It all started for me when I went to get some photos taken for my grandmother. I was really small for my age and I never stopped talking and the photographer told my mother that he thought I could do commercial work. According to my mom, I kept harassing her about it until she finally sent the photos we took that day to the agent the photographer had recommended. My mom figured I’d do it for a couple of weeks until I got bored.

Did you go on a lot of auditions right away?

Some. They’d call my mom and say, “Hello, Mrs. Cotler, can Kami be in Hollywood today at 4?” Well, my parents both worked and we lived in Orange County so my mother would say, “No.” They’d say, “What?!” and she’d tell them that I could be there at so-and-so a time the next day. “But that’s not how it works, Mrs. Cotler!” they’d scream and yet I’d still get the audition.

What kind of stuff did you go out for before you got The Homecoming?

I remember a Gunsmoke audition where I had to cough and I couldn’t remember how so I didn’t get it. I went out for something where I had to eat a piece of bread with peanut butter on it and say how good it was but I didn’t like peanut butter so I wouldn’t do it!

Did you even understand the concept of rejection at that age?

Not at all. The audition was kind of like the gig in my mind, it was fun! I felt very cool and important because I was already a good reader and could read the sides that they gave me without a lot of help!

So how did you get cast in The Homecoming?

They were using the same casting director from my Gunsmoke audition so they called me because they were looking for redheads. My family was excited when I got that movie but they treated it like a once-in-a-lifetime event. Everyone was working so they had to figure out who would watch me on which day. We shot some of the movie at CBS in Studio City but the outdoor locations were all in Jackson Hole, Wyoming.

Oh right, I remember the snow! Did you have any idea how famous Patricia Neal (who played Olivia in the original movie) was?

No. But I knew she was special because my parents seemed very impressed by her — they told me she won an Academy Award. I also knew that she’d had a stroke because everyone was very careful with her. There was a sense of fragility.

Did you know that she was married to author Roald Dahl?

No, I didn’t, and I was totally a Roald Dahl fan! I only figured that out later because we sent her Christmas gifts for years afterwards.

And you weren’t freaked out about acting for the first time?

No, but my mom was terrified I’d screw it up since I wasn’t exactly known for my focus! She took me to a coach one day and told our director, Fielder Cook, about it and he said, “No! Don’t do that, leave her alone, she’s perfect!” So I never had another acting lesson. I remember feeling that I was a little girl and no one else was so I had a certain level of expertise about Elizabeth!

Wow, that’s a pretty sophisticated way of looking at it at that age!

One problem I had, though, was that I couldn’t cry on cue, I just had no idea how to do that. I was supposed to sit there and weep in one scene and Earl saw that I couldn’t do it so he wrote that scene in the hayloft for David (Jim-Bob) and me to do instead!

Do you remember when they decided to turn The Homecoming into a TV series?

Not really. As soon as I finished The Homecoming, I did this TV movie called The Heist with Christopher George and Elizabeth Ashley and then CBS called and said they wanted me in this new sitcom called Me and the Chimp with Ted Bessell and Anita Gillette.

Holy shit, I remember that bizarre show but I forgot you were in it!

Oh yes, it’s listed in every book about the worst TV shows in history! Thank God it was cancelled after 13 weeks or I wouldn’t have been available to do The Waltons.

Were you thrilled when you heard you were going to be on that series with your old friends from The Homecoming?

I remember being very excited to see everyone again but I was shocked by how much taller David was! I don’t remember any confusion about suddenly having different parents and a different grandfather (Patricial Neal and Andrew Duggan were replaced by Michael Learned and Ralph Waite, and Edgar Bergen was replaced by Will Geer; Ellen Corby played Grandma in both).

Was it a warm, close-knit set from the very beginning?

Yes. I think that the adults, including Richard, really set a tone of professionalism and just being nice. They really liked and respected each other and that went a long way.

You always got along with your brothers and sisters?

Yeah, but we were kids, so they would tease me sometimes and make me cry! They’d get impatient because I was being a whiny baby. But we always had each other and that was a big part of why it was so much fun to do. You know Radames Pera who was there with us this weekend because he was on our show a few times? He was doing Kung Fu back then and he was the only kid on the set so he was very lonely and used to come hang out with us.

Do you think Lorimar, as a production company, was just particularly good with kids?

No, I don’t think so, to be honest. In fact, I used to think that they were a little embarrassed of us.

Really? Isn’t The Waltons the show that made Lorimar?

Totally, but I still think they were kind of embarrassed. They would cram three of us girls in the tiniest dressing room with our three guardians. We never had chairs on the set because Lorimar wouldn’t provide them so finally Michael couldn’t take it anymore and bought us all chairs! We used to go over to the Apple’s Way set and marvel at the kids’ dressing rooms. And the fact that the whole cast had parking spaces on the lot!

What? I always considered Apple’s Way the B-list Waltons! The quality of your show in those early years was just stunning. Those episodes are so beautiful to look at for a network series — like watching a great period film.

Our Director of Photography the first few years was Russ Metty who had been a DP for people like Orson Welles and John Huston. He did all of those gorgeous films for Douglas Sirk. By this time he was a old man with a cigar who sat in a high director’s chair and grunted a lot but he was revered by the crew and they did whatever he said. Those episodes look fantastic.

Everything looked really authentic to the period, even though you didn’t have a huge budget.

Our costumer the first year was Patty Norris who got a bunch of Academy Award nominations. She really loved what she was doing. A lot of those clothes were actually from the 1930s and would sometimes disintegrate in our hands. I remember I had a pair of boots that first year and Patty cried when I grew out of them! Same thing when I outgrew that horrible pinstriped romper I used to wear, Patty wept.

Was it a grueling routine to be on a weekly series?

Not for me! I’d get there early in the morning and they’d just stick my hair in braids and then I’d go out and play. By the time we started shooting my scenes I was all dirty — which was perfect for Elizabeth!

They didn’t put makeup on you guys?

They were too cheap at the beginning to bother with that. If you look at some of the early shows, we were very pale. Eventually they’d at least slap some pancake makeup on us we didn’t look too weird next to the adults!

I assume you had to go to school on the set?

Yes. School was only three hours along and I was in the same room as the older kids so if I got bored with second grade math I could listen to Mary’s fifth grade history. I remember abandoning my work a lot and listening to what the other kids were doing because it was so much more interesting. We had a really lovely teacher.

But you didn’t go to school with the other kids on the lot?

No, each show had their own school. But we’d visit them because we had this great newspaper called “The Walton Mountain News” and we were always trying to recruit other kids to be stringers for us! I remember crashing one movie set on the let to try to get to Brooke Shields. She had all these handlers who tried to keep us away from her, it was so weird. I was like 12 and Mary was 15 and we were wearing our Waltons costumes, we were clearly not that dangerous! We finally managed to talk to her and she was lovely. She was sad that she didn’t have enough free time to write for our paper.

So there you were on this very successful TV show. Did you feel dialed in to that showbiz world?

No, not really. I remember going to the People’s Choice Awards one year and handing out cocktail umbrellas to all of the winners just as an excuse to talk to them! And I wormed my way into meeting Natalie Wood because I knew my dad was in love with her. I was pretty fearless back then. My mom talks about this time that I met Rock Hudson and some other huge movie star and had a long chat with them. When I finished, I came over to my mom and she said, “Do you know who those people were?” And I said, “Yes, they were fans!”

Oh, that’s so funny! So you probably had no clue who some of the amazing guest stars on The Waltons were.

No, I had no idea. I mean, I could tell when someone like Beulah Bondi was working with us that everyone thought she was special but that was my only context. But there were people who came on our show that I followed afterwards like Sissy Spacek — I always felt she kind of belonged to us because she was on our show a couple of times so it was exciting to watch her do so well and win awards.

Did you feel protective of Elizabeth and ever look at a script and said, “Oh, she wouldn’t say that!”

Yeah, we were all super protective of our characters. Michael told the story on Saturday about the show where Elizabeth was supposed to give away this doll that she had won to this less fortunate kid and she said to them, “No way! A kid her age would never do that!” I do remember telling the writers at one point that they had to stop making jokes about Elizabeth not knowing where babies came from. The girl lives on a farm! She’d have to be developmentally disabled to not have figured it out by then, I was embarrassed for her! And I’d say, “Look, I’m too big to be carried, you have to stop having Richard carry me around, I’m dragging on the ground!” Things like that.

Did you have a sense when you were little that you were famous?

My mom says that when I was doing The Homecoming, Fielder Cook used to call me his “star” and say to people visiting the set, “Let me introduce you to my star!” So when I was taking a bath one night, I asked her, “Mommy, am I a star?” And she said, “No, you’re a little girl who’s acting.” I did get fan mail during the show and I tried to answer it. And I got recognized a lot back then so it was a little hard to go places. But Waltons fans tend to be very friendly. Weird things would happen, though, like people would say, “You look so much like that little girl on The Waltons.” “Well,” I’d say, “I am her.” And they’d argue with me. “No, you’re not!”

And I’m sure you’ve had a lot of people shouting, “Hey, Elizabeth!”

Oh yeah, all the time, and also “Good night, John Boy.” When I was little, it used to bother me when people called me Elizabeth. It took a little time to figure out who my real friends were and who was just excited that I was on a TV show. There was some navigating of that as I got older.

Did you like when Elizabeth finally got a boyfriend on the show?

That was hard! The crew made fun of it and the guy they cast to play Drew, Tony Becker, was a really lovely guy but he was sort of a cowboy. He liked horses, he liked to go four-wheeling, while I, at 15, fancied myself as a very sophisticaled intellectual! (Laughs.) The fact that he didn’t want to talk about F. Scott Fitzgerald, I was like, “Ugh, what do we have in common?” But he was very sweet.

You literally grew up on that set. Did you feel more bonded to the kids who were closest to your age?

Early on, David and I would play together all the time. We’d go down to the Western street on the lot and rob banks and raid saloons, we had a great time! And then when he got too old to play with me, I just followed Mary around because I thought she was the coolest teenager I’d ever met. I worshipped her and followed her wherever she went.

I have to admit that Erin was my main Waltons crush, I was completely in love with her at the time.

She was so beautiful!

I can’t imagine that it’s always easy going through adolescence in the public eye.

As a young kid I was completely un-self-conscious. But as soon as I hit puberty, it was awful! Suddenly my arms were too long, I didn’t know how to stand, I couldn’t bear to watch myself.

So you didn’t watch the show during those years?

Never, it made me so uncomfortable! Recently, I happened to see an episode from the later years, I was watching it with my brother, and it was so weird. There were all these very long, lingering pauses at the end of our scenes. At the commercial break my brother said, “Jeez, I don’t remember The Waltons being so existential!” It got a little soapy and melodramatic toward the end.

Did you kind of see the end coming while you were shooting those final seasons?

I think there was a consciousness of certain things. When they recast Richard Thomas, we were like, “They’ve lost their minds!”

Michael told me last week that she was totally against it even though she finally saw one of the new John-Boy’s (Robert Wightman) episodes and thought he did a good job.

I felt terrible for Bob, what a terrible position he was in. I remember we took him out to lunch and tried to be really nice, we all felt sorry for him. And there were other things in those later years like when Mary Ellen’s husband comes back from the dead. We were like, “Really? Is that necessary?” Why couldn’t they just let the family be?

I remember being surprised when they suddenly had those scenes in Europe during World War II. I guessed that they just dug a trench next to the regular set and shoved Ben into it.

Oh, totally, they just drained Drusilla’s Pond and turned it into a POW camp. But at least that kind of stuff actually happened during the war. Some of the other storylines were a bit of a reach.

I also talked to Michael about the crazy timelines in the reunion movies. We all knew Elizabeth was born in 1927 but she still seemed about 20 in the 1960s!

It was weird. I’m not sure how much power Earl had at that point. On one of the reunion shows, they had Elizabeth seeing Drew for the first time in many years and the line in the script that I was supposed to say was, “Well, I was engaged but that didn’t work out. Turns out he liked boys more than me.” And I was like, there’s just no way in hell Elizabeth Walton would say that in 1963! In fact, no girl in any time period who was seeing her high school boyfriend for the first time in years would open with that! I made them change it. Maybe later, once Drew and I had a few glasses of wine I might bring it up! (Laughs.)

It was great seeing you all together again but the storylines in some of those movies were just nuts! Like forgetting about certain character’s kids. I love the story Eric told last weekend when he went to the producers and asked why there was no mention of Ben and Cindy’s kids and they said, “Oh, no one will notice!” I guess they didn’t realize how obsessive us fans were about the show and the characters.

They really didn’t, it used to drive us crazy. Also, if you look at the plots of those movies, it’s always the stuff in the outside world coming in — they never thought the idea of the family getting together was enough.

It’s too bad they didn’t trust how much we loved you guys! I’d love to see another reunion movie now, I think it would be so much better. Do you think there’s any chance of that happening?

I have no idea. I’d definitely do it — it would be a lot of fun to work with everybody again. The industry is so fragmented now that I think you can do niche programming. I’m not sure CBS would do it, though. The first few movies were done right after we were cancelled so those had a lot more continuity. But the other ones were done much later when I was an adult. That was a good experience because it made it really clear to me that this was not the field that I wanted to be in!

So you never really wanted to be an actress after the show ended?

Not really. I went out on a couple of auditions. I remember walking into the waiting room as an adult and having everyone look at me with a certain level of hostility. I never experienced that as a kid. I was like, “Relax, ladies, I don’t really care! My life does not ride on this audition!”

I would think that being so closely identified with Elizabeth Walton wouldn’t exactly help your acting career later on.

It probably wouldn’t have if I had really wanted to pursue it. I remember one audition right after the show ended with this casting director who was definitely familiar with The Waltons and he said to me, “So, have you done anything?” I said, “No, not very much. Just one thing!”

I so admire your career as an educator. Are you still the principal of the Environmental Charter Middle School?

No, I was the founding principal for four years and now I have a four-day-of-week position there. We have three schools now, it’s great.

I was at the Waltons reunion you all did at the Wilshire Ebell Theater a few years ago which was very moving, especially since the late Ralph Waite was there for that. That was all in support of your school, right?

Yes, wasn’t that awesome? They ambushed me. We were having dinner together one night and they said, “Okay, look, we’re doing a 40th anniversary event and we’re doing it as a fundraiser for your school.” That’s what families do for each other!

#David Harper #Earl Hamner #Ellen Corby #Eric Scott #Jon Walmsley #Judy Norton #Kami Cotler #Mary McDonough #Michael Learned #Ralph Waite #Richard Thomas #The Waltons #Will Geer #Will Geer's Theatricum Botanicum #Interviews #What's Hot