#jon's death

[fedonciadale]

Jon saw lady in his dreams because in theon dreams greywind and Robb were together to imply that their death occurred simentaenously but the direwolf Jon saw was sad and lonely and in crypts where lady is buried. But why he saw ygritte there?

Hi there!

Ygritte comes up at the strangest moments and for different reasons. Sometimes her name is not mentioned, but her trademark insult to Jon: You know nothing, Jon Snow. Jon knowing nothing is connected to several things but the most obvious thing Jon doesn’t know is his parentage: For that reason it is interesting, that Jon dreams about the Old Starks telling him that he is no Stark and about Ygritte.

There is another reason though, I would say. On a conscious level, Ygritte reminds Jon of Arya. On a subconscious level, some of Ygritte’s traits Jon is attracted to are connected to Sansa, without Jon ever drawing an explicit comparison.

Sometimes she sang in a low husky voice that stirred him. And sometimes by the cookfire when she sat hugging her knees with the flames waking echoes in her red hair, and looked at him, just smiling . . . well, that stirred some things as well. (ASOS, Jon II)

Sansa sings and Sansa has red hair and both these traits stir something in Jon.

The firelight playing in the hair is something that is explicitly said about Sansa:

I often sent away her maid so I could brush her hair myself. She had auburn hair, lighter than mine, and so thick and soft . . . the red in it would catch the light of the torches and shine like copper.    (ACOK, Catelyn VII)

The wording is completely different, but the image is the same.

And Sansa does not only sing, she sing sweetly:

Her sister had known all the songs, and she could even play a little, and sing so sweetly. All I could ever do was shout the words.  (ASOS, Arya IV)  

So both, the singing and the hair colour are definitely not the traits Ygritte shares with Arya, but with Sansa. And Jon’s reaction is “it stirred some things”.

Please remember that that does not mean that Jon has sexual feelings about Sansa at the moment: It just means that he is attracted to singing and red hair in the firelight.

Anyway, Ygritte turns up again and again, and sometimes she is a reminder of Sansa: When Jon is offered Winterfell, he thinks that he might be tempted to take Stannis’ offer if Ygritte was alive. He thinks Melisandre is Ygritte at one point (ADWD, Jon VI).

I think the most significant thing is this though, shortly before Jon dies:

He thought of Robb, with snowflakes melting in his hair. Kill the boy and let the man be born. He thought of Bran, clambering up a tower wall, agile as a monkey. Of Rickon's breathless laughter. Of Sansa, brushing out Lady's coat and singing to herself. You know nothing, Jon Snow. He thought of Arya, her hair as tangled as a bird's nest.  (ADWD, Jon XIII)

Jon thinks about the Starks and there is Ygritte’s mantra right between the two sisters. And Sansa is there with Lady (non of the other Starks is in Jon’s memory with their direwolf). And Sansa is not only with Lady, but Jon remembers her singing, one of the things he really liked about Ygritte (cf. my meta on singing in Jon’s arc on that) and then there is Arya. And for her there is also a connection with Ygritte: the tangled hair, that made Jon remember his little sister when he observed Ygritte (and not in a positive way: he contemplated asking Ygritte if she knew how to brush: Lucky it might be, and red it certainly was, but Ygritte's hair was such a tangle that Jon was tempted to ask her if she only brushed it at the changing of the seasons, ASOS, Jon II). So, there is the subconcious and the conscious almost right beside each other if it were not for Ygritte’s mantra.

To me this is a reminder of the dream in the crypts, the Starks are there, Lady is there and Jon does not know anything, not his parentage nor his heart probably. Because he does not yet know what Sansa’s singing will do to him. “What do you know of my heart, priestess?” I am tempted to ask: “What do you know about your own heart, Jon?” Nothing is the answer, as for now.

So, I would say, there is a reason why Ygritte is mentioned in Jon’s crypt dream and it is more than just his bad conscience about her death. I think Jon’s thoughts before his death are very strong Jonsa foreshadowing but J0nryas see that very very differently. lol.

Thanks for the ask!

[fedonciadale]

Hi again F., I wanted to ask you sth. What do you think is the narrative significance of Jon's murder? I mean, apart from getting WF, beast trope etc., apart from all the things Jonsa fandom discusses all the time and we know. What does his murder serve for the plot?

Hi there!

As always with GRRM I think there are several reasons, some are related to the story and some are GRRM’s preferences, because I think with Jon’s death there is something he wanted to write all the time.

So, let’s first look at the narrative needs: For one, Jon’s death ups the stakes. Of course the readers know already that resurrection is possible, but the examples we get are not encouraging. We met Berric and Catelyn after their resurrection and their change of personality is not encouraging. Berric forgot too many things, he is set on the purpose in whose cause he died - the king’s justice, even though Robert is dead. You could argue that he fights for a lost cause. Then there is Catelyn aka Lady Stoneheart bent on revenge like in the last moments of her life. Not very encouraging either. It could be argued that there are even more characters with a death or near death experience: Did Davos die after the Battle of the Blackwater and did the Seven bring him back? In that case that seems to be a resurrection that didn’t change his character. Then there is Victarion possibly already dead although he does not know it and resurrected by Moros. Then of course there are the Wights. We certainly don’t want Jon to return as a Wight.

So, many readers guessed even before Jon was resurrected on the show, that he would come back, but how? GRRM set it up in such a way, that Jon’s warging might save his soul from the effect that Rh’llor’s resurrection seem to have: the fixation on a single purpose. So, Jon’s death shows us how serious the situation is and at the same time how important the Old Gods are - or the magical abilities that probably came to the First Men via the Children of the Forest. Jon’s death forces him to become the full warg he was always meant to be.

At the same time, the reasons for Jon’s death might be needed to serve as a cautionary tale for the future. What exactly Jon will learn from his murder is unclear for now. He certainly will learn to be more distrusting. He will also learn to hide his plans, I think. It is still not clear if Jon’s murder is a late effect of Tywin Lannister’s machinations or Lannister machinations. It is possible. It is also possible that it is just men of the NW who did not agree with his plans to integrate the Free Folk. It doesn’t make much sense though because they should have murdered him before the Free Folk came through the wall. I think Jon’s murder also sets up the stage for a later time, when Jon will be tempted again to risk everything for the Starks. His death might cause him to be extremely cautious about telling anyone ever again that he wants to save his family.

So that all pertains to Jon’s character: Other effects of the murder pertain to the plot. Jon’s death conveniently frees him from his oath to the NW. That way he can be free to become King in the North and Robb’s heir even though Robb cannot send men to the Watch to release him of his duty.

If the theory that the sacrifice of Shireen will enable Jon’s resurrection that will also set up a very heartbreaking survivor’s guilt in Jon that might drive him to have a real impact in the fight against the Others. This guilt might even make him look for help in the wrong place: Dany and her dragons - another change of character that will influence the plot. If Monster, Gilly’s son dies as well, this will severely influence Jon’s relationship to Sam.

So, even without Jon as Beast to Sansa’s Beauty, even without her singing Jon back to humanity, there are plenty of reasons for Jon’s death, characterwise and plotwise.

Finally, there are some things GRRM wants to explore as an author. The fandom has discussed this often: GRRM thinks that the return of Gandalf the Grey as a better and stronger person was cheating, if anything one should return from death as a darker person. I must admit that I don’t necessarily agree on this, because a return from death should prove that death is not unbeatable and that should be a sign of hope? Anyway, GRRM thinks resurrected people should be darker and he wants to subvert expectations in that regard. Jon won’t be a Messiah, that is for sure. How dark he will really become is, at this point, a matter of conjecture. But I cannot imagine that GRRM would talk about this and then not do anything with it. He wants to beat Tolkien after all. So, I guess he will really make Jon darker, more dangerous, more distrusting. Maybe he’ll even give him severe trauma from his stabbing.

So, that’s my thoughts. As you can see, Jon’s death serves many plot points, and Jonsa is just one of them.

Thanks for the ask!

[circus-tresaulti]

There was always pepsi there.

The Jon had been hunting for the last of his Crystal Pepsi for the last few days.

It was getting harder and harder to find his stashes as every step pained him. It was an incredibly hard process to keep his mind focused and to keep his body moving when everything in him was screaming to stop, find a corner, and just power down.

He reached his room.

There was always pepsi there. There was always pepsi there. There was always pepsit there.

Bracing himself on the door, the bot pushed himself forward into the room, collapsing into a pile before he pulled himself to the cot in the room.

 There was always pepsi there. There was always pepsi there. There was always pepsi there.

 But not this time. There was no pepsi. There was nothing. Every can was empty, drained bone dry.

 The Jon curled up on the cot, grabbing his small musical giraffe stuffed animal, holding it close. His photo-receptors dimmed slowly as he wound the giraffe, waiting for the comforting music to come out of the animal. If he was going to go out, he was going to do it his way, by his rules, and he wanted to hear his song one last time.

 He laid his head down on his pillow and held the giraffe to his chest, his photo-receptors dimming even more till they were almost black.

 He took a deep breath and closed his eyes as he felt oil slide from his eyes, as if he was crying. He didn’t want to go, he would miss everyone. Shojo and her striped shirt, Madoka and her pink hair, Kat and her box that was bigger on the inside then the outside and even Rumbo who had magnificent hair just like his.

 “I…I don't…want...to...go.......”

 As the giraffe’s song slowed so did the bot’s body as he powered down forever.

((sorry guys, I just had to get this out after all the sad feels going around. This is not real, just me writing some Jon Feels.))