#kelliwisethebrave

[anghraine]

After seeing The Last Jedi, would you keep the sequel trilogy characters in the same Hogwarts houses you put them in after TFA, or would you change any?

Hmm, I hadn’t thought about it!

It’s mostly the same, though with one exception.

Rey: I could maybe see her as a Hufflepuff now, though I still incline to Gryffindor. Embracing an identity built on “brave deeds to her name” rather than on belonging or connections is central to her character arc in TLJ—not that attachments are wrong in themselves, but defining herself and her value by inclusion in this or connection to that is wrong for Rey. By contrast:

Finn: more convinced of Finn the best kind of Slytherin than ever. Honestly, his arc revolving around a vision that expands from heroism for the sake of self-preservation+the two people I care about >>> folding in the entire Resistance into My People and identifying with them is an arc I didn’t ever anticipate when I chose Slytherin for him. But it fits really well!

Poe Dameron: I vacillated between Hufflepuff and Gryffindor before, and settled on Hufflepuff, but now I would definitely go for Gryffindor! His entire arc is basically a criticism of Gryffindor hero tropes (not a total rejection—there’s a reason it culminates not just in humbling Poe but in Leia handing the reins over to him—but a problematization).

Ben/Kylo: I was always completely convinced that he’s a Gryffindor, but I am now 1000% more convinced. Especially in the full on military assault against Luke with Slytherins facepalming around him, and of course his affinity with Rey (whose parental figures betrayed her and left her at the mercies of an exploitative ~protector~, who’s impulsive and stunted by abandonment and perpetually ready to solve problems by whacking them really hard—#relatable). And, yeah, Kylo flailing around for a cause and settling on BURN KILL DESTROY with a side of FUCK ALL Y’ALL is classic Gryffindor villain, particularly when set against classic Slytherin Hux. 

(Which was a blast, honestly. I’m very fond of SW’s propensity for Gryffindor vs Slytherin strain on both the villainous and heroic sides. There’s only-you-could-be-so-bold Anakin against assorted Slytherin Imperials—from Motti in ANH to Krennic in RO—and all-for-a-cause-that-was-worth-it Cassian and Leia against not-in-this-for-your-revolution Jyn and Han, even Anakin vs from-a-certain-point-of-view Slytherin Obi-Wan. And there’s a very sweet version in Slytherin Finn + Gryffindor Rey.)

[joons]

kelliwisethebrave

Yes. Was tweeting today about Bloodline and how it fits. Does the TLJ flashback happen before or after (and if before, is that why Ben and Luke are out of contact?) What did Ben know, and when? Did Snoke tell him about Vader? Questions. Questions that need answering.

YUP, dying to know when everyone learned about Vader. Also when the galaxy learned about Snoke, and whether Leia pieced together that Snoke sowed the seeds of darkness in Ben AFTER she saw Ben joined up with Snoke, or if Luke told her anything at all about the night it happened. It’ll just be so interesting to know what happened when to be able to understand all the factors at play and how the guilt from all parties could have burrowed deeper depending on what secrets they were keeping.

[anghraine]

Thank you for the TLJ houses answer. I decided to ask because I had seen someone type Ben/Kylo's personality under Myers Briggs, and also assign a Hogwarts house (Slytherin), and their whole analysis left me confused. Your insights are always so helpful and you never disappoint, so thanks again :)

Heh, no problem! If there were any other house to consider, it’d probably be Ravenclaw (given his initial response to a sudden telepathic bond to his enemy is... like, scientific curiosity), but that’s more what he’d like to make himself be than what he really is if you take the brakes off.

(Insofar as he has brakes, lol.)

[anghraine]

unpopular 🔥opinion: Rey

I’m not sure I have any? I have ~controversial~ opinions (because TFA fandom is what it is), but they’re all shared by a lot of people on one side or the other.

Ummm. I think it was clear from the first trailer that she’d be the direct successor to Luke and Anakin, for all that people keep trying to shove her in the Leia/Padmé box. And I think people still trying to shove her into the Leia/Padmé box are fooling themselves and bound to be disappointed.

[willorcs]

Very doubtful that Jyn will be in any more movies. Other material maybe (books etc).

oh well probably she will be in books or comics but anyway first i need to watch the movie hahaha, but idk jyn seems like so boring.......

[anghraine]

What are your thoughts on Rey Random? (since that seems less stressful to me right now than usual!)

I don’t think it’s silly in the way that I find Rey Kenobi, but I do think it’s pretty weak.

To me, honestly, it seems more … an expression of some people’s desire for a certain narrative than based on much evidence or probability.

There’s a certain contingent that really wants SW to tell a Brand New Story, without the constant interconnections of the OT/PT. In part, it’s the desire to escape the shadow of, particularly, the original trilogy. And partly it’s the sense that the galaxy seems smaller when we keep following the same group of people and the various other people/events they’re involved with. It was one thing with the PT/OT, where the whole point was the How We Got Here for the original (though criticized even for that). But for something that isn’t intrinsically tied to those, and something coming after so much time, there’s a feeling of wanting to get away from the tethers of the previous movies.

There’s also the power of the nobodies-to-heroes narrative, which is definitely the apparent thrust of TFA. (To the point that people will scold others for even caring about the obvious puzzle box of Rey’s past and family.)

But I think those arguments are based more on abstract concepts and desires for the series than the film itself. IME it’s also very much a TFA fandom thing, which tends to treat the OT (esp) and PT as background for TFA rather than previous installments of an ongoing series. But:

Well, firstly, there’s always that now-famous remark Kathleen Kennedy made about the sequels maintaining the preoccupations of the previous movies:

“the saga films focus on the Skywalker family saga”

It’s hard to see how that could be true of TFA if it’s not about, well, the Skywalker family. Now, I recently saw a video that pushed back against that argument. Their argument was that we already have a major Skywalker character in the current generation—Kylo. People are ~shockingly~ invested in the only known Skywalker,  and his character and arc will undoubtedly be a major part of the sequel trilogy.

That’s true. But it overlooks one important thing. IT IS NOT KYLO REN’S STORY. Yes, he’s going to have a big role to play. He’s one of the lead characters in an ensemble cast, third only to Rey and Finn. But it’s not about him. He is not the protagonist, the lead that the dramatic structure is primarily built around—that’s Rey. If the Skywalker legacy is entirely confined to Kylo Ren, then it’s not the focus on these movies, unless he takes over as protagonist. (Which would be terrible!)

Also, everything I said about Rey’s many, many connections to the Skywalkers in my Rey not-Kenobi post holds true. It’s difficult to make sense of any one of them, much less all, if there is really zero connection there. I think you could (barely) stretch it to “there’s some connection to the Skywalkers, but not a family one” (i.e., the abandonment puzzle box and the Skywalker puzzle box are separate), but it seems pretty clunky to me.

[anghraine]

I'm the complete opposite with vos, my best friend and her family are from Argentina, so they use vos all the time, but I basically just use tú most of the time and once in a while I randomly throw in a vos conjugation when I remember ;) btw on the topic I was wondering which accent you use when you speak?

Heh!

My accent ... uh, I’m not sure what to call it, since I’m a perpetually intermediate speaker and it’s all heavily filtered through my Cascadian English. Mexican Spanish is the most ‘standard’ to me, partly because USA, partly because my dad absorbed his Spanish from his Mexican family and is a fierce proponent of it.

You can hear me here, though, if you want to decide for yourself :)

[winteredfall]

Re: your reread of Harry Potter and taking it seriously, I'm doing a reread too, and recently I saw someone say that the series in many ways riffs on British culture in satirical ways (and that's why the American wizarding stuff doesn't work- she doesn't live here nor know our culture so she can't achieve the same thing) which I think (at least for me) provides a different lens to examine the more farcical or absurd aspects found in the series.

Sorry it took me ten years to get to this gah!! So yeah I’m a bit farther in now, book 5, and as the series goes on Rowling really hits her stride in terms of storytelling style that is casually whimsical and absurd even as it’s meant to be serious; obviously stuff like the graveyard scene in book 4 are just dark and serious but then in book 5 - which is like gloom and doom from beginning to end (and Harry’s emo phase ugh) - it’s grim and comedic at the same time; Umbridge is a cruel oppressive turdbag but her decrees and behavior are so absurd that it’s as funny as it is infuriating; the way the teachers turn against her is hilarious; every exchange between her and McGonagall, and especially their screaming match over whether Harry can become an Auror, is absolute comedy gold. 

But even as the writing style is very playful and entertaining in that sense, it is still meant to be a serious story; all the sarcasm drops away in the climax scenes and there’s a big tonal shift. So it’s kind of hard to look at it as a purely whimsical kind of story in which all the over the top aesthetics are 100% at home, you know, like everybody dressing in robes and pointed hats, and using quills and parchments, and unwieldy trunks instead of suitcases and all that sort of thing. It’s not about British culture specifically I think because it just feels like the Wizarding world exists in too much of a vacuum from the Muggle world. 

Like, I understand the idea is that Muggle technology developed in the absence of magic and it replaces a lot of things that Wizards already have through magic, but a lot of Muggle “advancements” that Wizards are oblivious to kind of don’t make sense… like paper and pens. Obviously parchment and quills are not a magical invention… just early writing tools… which Muggles used as well… so why is the advancement and refinement of those tools something wizards decided to ignore, happy to stick with the rudimentary versions… and why do muggle-born/raised people like Hermione and Harry not question this and not get fed up with messy inkwells and quills and just use a damn pen, it doesn’t make any sense. And then the robes - the movies kind of moved away from this and had the characters just wear normal clothes with open robes on top, the girls wore actual dresses at the Yule Ball, the guys’ dress robes looked more like suits, etc. But in the books the robes everyone wears are actually just fully closed robes as a single garment and anything else is weird Muggle clothes that Wizards can’t comprehend; this is especially illustrated at the World Cup in book 4, where all the Wizards on the campground are supposed to be blending in as Muggles and they’re struggling immensely with the clothes, and there’s the guy who insists on wearing a dress as it’s similar to a robe and lol wut are pants? I don’t see what makes clothing/fashion development a Muggle-only thing or why, again, Wizards got stuck on one rudimentary garment and remained oblivious to “Muggle clothes” becoming more and more relaxed and comfortable and efficient and easy to wear. Honestly, wearing a great trailing robe all the time cannot be that great. 

Anyway though even beyond those things… how come Muggles never run into magical creatures and plants, there’s certainly a great range and plethora of these things yet ~somehow~ they only exist in places that Wizards know about? Even in the wild? Wizards still interact with and make use of non-magic plants and animals (like… as food sources at the very least) but they only learn about magical ones? How come there’s no kind of arts or humanities education at all, surely those are not “Muggle” things, why does being able to do magic preclude the importance of those things? All those paintings hanging around Hogwarts, does someone paint them or can you just create a painting with the flick of a wand? I doubt it’s the latter, and how very sad if so; where are the magical arts electives or clubs at Hogwarts, and surely magical painting or music composing or literature cannot exist on its own in a vacuum outside of the development of those things in the Muggle world and must heavily intersect with them? Note how Dean, the Muggleborn, is the one who’s “good at drawing”… where are the Wizard artists at!!!! What about photography - obviously Wizards have this, yet is it not technology developed by Muggles? In book 2 we learn that moving photos are obtained just by developing photos from a normal camera in a magic solution, so obviously in this instance Wizards chose not to be oblivious to some form of Muggle technology… but cameras still seem to be regarded as weird Muggle artifacts that are like, only used for publications and Colin Creevey is an annoying Muggleborn for having one? What makes photography a “Muggle” interest and what is it about being able to use magic that makes you unable to appreciate what a still photograph can capture… why is film something Wizards deem useless… why do they not seem to care about storytelling at all, why are Wizard novels and films and comics not a thing… why does every aspect of their education have to be purely magical, any kid should be taught like, basic math and geography and that sort of thing… and Muggle history… like even if it wasn’t magic-related it’s still the history of the world they live in… 

Honestly the main thing magic replaces is science and technology, yet here Wizards literally dismiss every aspect of the “Muggle world”, be it fashion, art, food, history, sports, whatever; this is what doesn’t make any sense. Also… “Muggle science” has to factor in some ways… like human biology… Wizards have the same bodies as Muggles… so magical injuries and diseases have magical treatments and cures, okay, but what if a Wizard gets cancer, how does that work… and okay, say there’s a magical treatment for all “Muggle diseases”, what about like, pregnancy and childbirth… you still have to like… be aware of human biology to manage your pregnancy, staying away from alcohol, eating the right foods, etc… which goes for taking care of your health in general and not just if you’re pregnant… and surely child delivery still happens the same way…

Then there’s stuff like… in book 4 Molly Weasley is waiting anxiously for everyone to get back from the World Cup because she’s read about what happened in the Daily Prophet and she doesn’t know whether they’re all dead or not, like she literally says this, and the whole thing is so rudimentary… only having news by way of newspaper and mail… if she were a Muggle she could have checked up on them in a second with a phone… the closest thing Wizards have to instant communication is floo powder but what if you’re not in a place with a freaking fireplace to stick your head through… or else apparition but imagine apparating into someone’s living room every time you wanted to ask or tell them something, it’s highly rude and impractical… even floo powder… imagine anyone could walk through your fireplace or pop their head through at any minute, what kind of lack of privacy. The Ministry has flying memos literally taking the elevator for coworkers to communicate with one another, how is this not more tedious and inefficient than phones and e-mail… whenever Hermione is trying to research something in the library she has to go through a million books that seem like they might have the relevant info, how is there not a magical database similar to the internet where you can search keywords and turn up results, including articles from publications… it’s sooo limiting… Molly keeps complaining about traveling without magic every time they have to go somewhere that doesn’t have a fireplace with kids that can’t apparate; like, you have to live with this until your kids are 17, how is there not a more efficient magical way for families to travel if they’re gonna insist on ignoring Muggle transportation… flying vehicles should absolutely be a normal thing… so many “Muggle” things should have magical equivalents but they don’t because Wizards are half-stuck in medieval times. 

There’s also the joke that Voldemort could have just shot Harry with a gun and be done with it lol as their ~magic~ connection is what kept keeping him from being able to kill Harry with a spell; which is just representative of the fact that even as magic facilitates many things it also limits Wizards in many ways as they insist on ignoring everything non-magical. 

Do Wizarding kids go to regular school until they turn 11, the way Harry did… obviously they learn to read and write and stuff somewhere… and if so then why are they still so oblivious. Wizards are even confused by the national currency of the country they live in, like what… why is this so difficult it’s basic, basic math and a lot simpler than Wizard currency… do they not buy simple things like food and groceries from Muggle supermarkets… like… what. The Statute of Secrecy shouldn’t mean that Wizards live in this much of a vacuum and are this oblivious to the world around them, especially if they’re trying to blend into it. Idk maybe this might feel like reading too much into it but for me a lot of this stuff is really distracting and keeps me from taking the books too seriously at all.