#ketch117

[sailorheadcanons]

The one thing that was canon from 'Saban Moon' is the Dark Galleon - which Queen Beryl absolutely used laying waste to the Silver Millenium (while laughing like a maniac). That said, ultimately, there was a (somewhat fictionalised) high budget film about their adventures which followed the general proposed outline of that show, and the Senshi all were very confused about the liberties taken in regards to their personalities and designs. Some enjoyed the experience a lot more than others.

[aegonbeingfakeisracist]

ketch117 replied to your post “I know I keep talking about this, but I’m still unable to stop...”

People in the real world (which is a lot more brutal) have achieved far more than any Targaryen ever achieved with a dragon without one. Rhaenys doesn't need some cosmic validation to matter (like Rhaegar obviously felt), she could achieve great things without needing a dragon. It's a lot better if she does it with what she does rather than by virtue of who she is, as well as a big middle finger to… well, Rhaegar wasn't much of a father, so I don't like using that word.

I don’t necessarily think one way is better than the other, but I do love the idea of her forging her own path completely outside of Rhaegar’s obsession with prophecy, in a way that has nothing to do with dragons or any mystical force. However, I also love the idea of her with a dragon, proceeding to do things completely differently from her ancestors. It would be an interesting exploration into living her life and handling her heritage on her own terms.

[dknc3]

I was hoping for advice in writing Catelyn, now that I'v written myself into a trap - not Catelyn as a grown woman, but as a girl, living in Riverrun, before her betrothal to Brandon was finalised. Who were her friends, who was she close to? Did she have ladies? Hoster Tully was said to have enjoyed riding around his estates, did Cat join him?

Well, my friend, I have thought a lot about Catelyn and what I have to offer is pretty much my own head canon, but I think it’s informed by canon (book canon, of course. I’ve never watched the show.)

As a very young girl, Catelyn’s mother would have been alive, and I think that Minisa Whent Tully would have overseen Catelyn’s and Lysa’s daily lives, making certain her girls were being raised as proper young ladies. They both would have been so very young at this point (especially Lysa!) however, that I think even the time spent with their mother would have involved a great deal of play as much as instruction. We know from Catelyn’s canon recollection that she loved to play outdoors at Riverrun. As a child she swam, played in Riverrun’s godswood, and even played in the mud. She had a mischievous streak--feeding Littlefinger mud pies, for example. And while I believe she was always a generally obedient child, she was daring enough to do things like play kissing games she knew perfectly well her parents wouldn’t approve of, so I see Little Cat as a bit of a mixture of her daughters in that she shared Arya’s love of adventure and fun, but also Sansa’s enjoyment of more traditional ladylike activities with her mother.

Of course, her mother died very early in her life, and I see that event as affecting the course of Catelyn’s childhood more than anything else.

As to the question of her friends, I believe her closest friend and confidante was her sister (which makes the events of canon even SADDER!!) They made up their own secret code, for heaven’s sake! I am quite certain that as a young child her mother probably also encouraged her to play and interact with other girls in Riverrun--the daughters of the more well-born castle retainers, for example--girls the equivalent of Jeyne Poole or Beth Cassel in Winterfell, for example. But Minisa died before Catelyn was the age most people send their children out to foster anywhere. (Ned’s fostering in the Eyrie at eight was considered early.) I think her mother’s death likely kept her from having significant numbers of noble girls sent to Riverrun to be her ladies. Hoster Tully essentially made her the Lady of Riverrun upon her mother’s death, and his priority was having her run his castle rather than finding her companions. I don’t think that was intentionally neglectful on his part--there’s no doubt he loved Catelyn very much. He tended to favor her over his other children, to everyone’s detriment. But he was a man. He hadn’t really given much thought to the formal elements of the raising of his daughters because that was Minisa’s realm. Once she was gone, he was more than content to leave the girls’ “womanly” education entirely to their septa. (I realize you aren’t writing about Catelyn as an adult, ketch, but I actually see this as a big reason that Catelyn didn’t intervene with or question Septa Mordane’s methods of educating her own daughters in Winterfell as much as she probably should have. Motherless Catelyn Tully had grown up believing the septa had all the authority in that realm.)  So Hoster wasn’t exactly sending out invites all over the Riverlands to take in his bannermen’s daughters; Minisa wasn’t there to encourage him to do so; and Catelyn was just trying to be whatever her father needed her to be, take care of her siblings, and mind her septa. So I think that in those moments after her mother’s death when she was still able to exercise her adventurous side and just be a child, she had primarily her siblings and Littlefinger for company. As she was the oldest of that group and also expected to be responsible for them, that set up a situation which sometimes left Lysa and Edmure resenting her for “mothering” them rather than just being their playmate, and left Catelyn a bit isolated in terms of having friends and companions her own age.

As for riding with Hoster Tully around his estates, I absolutely believe she did this regularly. Remember that Catelyn is about 9 years older than Edmure. Because of this, she was the heir to Riverrun for nearly the first decade of her life so Hoster had a lot invested in her. Her detailed recollections of Masha Heddle at the Inn at the Crossroads indicate she’d ridden all the way there with her father on more than one occasion. And of course, there were very few years between her brother’s birth and her mother’s death, so Catelyn had only a very brief period in her young life during which she was not the heir or the de facto lady of the castle. She would have spent a great deal of time in Hoster’s company, learning about the management of Riverrun and the politics of the Riverlands, visiting bannermen with her father, and hosting bannermen at Riverrun. A lot of that would have been overwhelming for a young girl--even one as intelligent and duty-oriented as Catelyn, (which is why I think she continued to escape occasionally to the river or godswood just to breathe a bit and feel the water on her skin or the mud between her toes, a la Arya, throughout her time in Riverrun), but some things--like the horseback rides with her father--are experiences I think she enjoyed greatly. I actually always write her as a very good rider in my own fic, and her history at Riverrun is a major reason why.  

[dknc3]

Also, there is no textual evidence of the Tully's at Harrenhal for the tournament. None whatsoever, not even a brief mention). Do you view this as a sign that they weren't there (and if so why not) or do you assume that they were (given that Hoster had married into the family, was sensitive about his authority and enjoyed riding around his lands you'd expect him to make an appearance at least, particularly since Lyssa didn't have a betrothal yet) and for some reason never got mentioned?

First of all, I absolutely think Catelyn Tully was NOT at Harrenhal for that tournament based on three inferences I make from the books. The first is the obvious, and you already stated it. NO mention of any Tully at that tournament at all. Secondly, I think there is at least circumstantial evidence that Brandon Stark got with Ashara Dayne at that tournament, and while I tend both to view and write Brandon as a womanizer with a rather cavalier attitude toward casual sexual relationships, I also believe he took his position as the heir of Winterfell very seriously. No way would he be pulling that kind of stunt right in his betrothed’s face. He’d be escorting Catelyn to all the major events like an honorable man should. Finally, Catelyn doesn’t appear to have any firsthand knowledge about what went on at that tournament. We’re in her head a LOT, and she doesn’t really give that tournament a thought when she’s reflecting on her marriage to Ned or thinking about his bastard’s unknown mother. The one woman she ever specifically asked her husband about was Ashara Dayne because she’d heard the name from servants at Winterfell, and his reaction to her question terrified her. Yet, not once, does she think about how her betrothed asked the woman to dance with Ned because he was obviously smitten and too shy to ask her himself. If she’d been there (on Brandon’s arm as his BETROTHED), she’d have seen that whole thing go down. And as obsessed as she is with “the woman that Ned loved,” it would have crossed her mind when she thinks about Jon’s mother. But nope. Never enters her head. She wasn’t there.

As to the WHY, I can’t say for certain, but I think it’s pretty clear that a lot of people were aware that something politically motivated and possibly treasonous in nature was supposed to happen at that tournament. Hoster Tully is the Lord Paramount of the region where the tournament took place. Whether he’d heard detailed plans about a meeting to potentially depose Aerys or only rumors, whether he considered supporting Prince Rhaegar in such an endeavor or had no desire to do so, whether he was involved in some political maneuvering of his own with Rickard Stark and Jon Arryn already or had only made the betrothal with Brandon in the interest of placing his favorite daughter in the highest position he could give her–Hoster Tully was in a particularly precarious position if anything dangerous happened at the tournament. His presence there might indicate his tacit approval of whatever idea was being floated. His absence would give him plausible deniability. Notice that Rickard Stark didn’t attend either. He sent his children. There’s no evidence that Jon Arryn was there either, that I can recall, but I’m not 100% certain on that.

In any event, Hoster would not have sent his daughters without him, and Edmure was still just a kid, so the route Rickard Stark took couldn’t work for him. (In the end, Rickard Stark’s decision to send his kids and stay home didn’t work out too well for ANYBODY!), and even if Hoster DID attend the tournament and just somehow escaped any mention of his presence in any of the books, he would have kept his daughters safely at home in Riverrun especially if he got wind of Aerys attending, and unlike Winterfell, Riverrun is close enough to Harrenhal for him to learn of that little detail in a timely manner.  My personal opinion is that NO Tullys attended the tournament, and that if Hoster was even wavering about going, Aerys heading up the King’s Road toward Harrenhal probably kept him a solid NOPE. 

[thestagthatlovedthewolf]

@ketch117 said:  …Morticia and Gomez, yes.

YES!!! They so GOOD!!!

[thestagthatlovedthewolf]

@ketch117 said: …Is there a new season?

Yes :) Season 2 came out on Christmas Eve :)

[thestagthatlovedthewolf]

@ketch117 said: It should be sheriff ‘Stoopid’ - yes, the fact her name is Alice Cooper will never stop being funny to me.

Haha, same, but I think this Alice Cooper is older than the singer :)

[thestagthatlovedthewolf]

@ketch117 said: You look awesome! And I know I’m not the one you’re asking, but yes I have. I liked it at first, but found it got a bit…Well, honestly the gods feel a bit like a LARP that’s gotten out of hand, repeating the their mythology endlessly, but with nothing at stake anymore.

Thank you :) I find them so much fun and really interesting!!! The last ones, the ones from The Trials of Apollo series, I wasn’t such a fun, Apollo’s humour just doesn’t work for me as much... But I love all the others!!!