#kpdh meta

[miraculousagentsofkrypton]

While the movie could have used more Celine development before the confrontation, I also love that she's Not physically present throughout the majority of the film. Rumi and the girls are Adults, not teens or inexperienced hunters. We are given the understanding that Celine was part of their early years together, and was fundamental to their training and ways of thinking. And now, they don't need her mentoring them in their daily responsibilities anymore. That's all that we actually need to know about her, for the story we got about Rumi.

Generational Trauma isn't insidious because the parent is constantly harping on their children; it's because it seeps into the child's way of thinking, even long after the source is gone. Rumi doesn't make the choices she makes because Celine forced her to, or because Celine is watching with a judging gaze.

Rumi is the one making the choices.

They're still her responsibility, even as we understand the source of her struggles. We know Celine encouraged her into certain thinking patterns, and she is responsible for that. But Celine isn't there anymore. Only Rumi is. Celine has passed the torch, her integral aspects of the story are entirely in the past. She's stagnant, stuck, the ghost in Rumi and the girl's thoughts while Rumi is going through her character arc. Rumi has built an understanding of the world in response to her history with Celine. That's the Celine that matters.

Present Celine's actions when Rumi showed up and begged her to kill her aren't actually as relevant to Rumi's arc as you might believe. It tells us a lot about their history and relationship, which is relevant, but whether Celine remained stagnant or changed her ways doesn't actually impact the direction Rumi ends up choosing. It only impacted the details of how she got there.

Put simply, who Celine used to be has more of an active role in Rumi's story arc than Celine as a present character in the movie could have achieved. In fact it would have done a disservice to the story, and to the exploration of Rumi's autonomy. This isn't a coming of age story. So, I deeply appreciate the movie's approach to including such a fundamental parental figure.

[golden-redhead]

Okay, but I actually adore the romantic arc in KPop Demon Hunters. There's so little time to tell this story and to focus on all its nuances, but the way the movie gets us there is absolutely amazing and doesn't feel cheap at all. And I think part of the reason why is the fact that Rumi and Jinu never really develop past what technically counts as just a crush.

It doesn't try to convince us that what they shared was something unbeliavably deep or like some kind of soulmate bond. It doesn't act like they were perfect for each other and how their love could make it through everything. It works precisely because it shows the tragedy of how little time they had together and how they never got to explore that on their own terms.

And we can all relate to that feeling of loss of something that could have been more. All of the elements of a great romance are technically there but all these other outside elements are working against them and all we get to see at the end of the day is the unexplored potential.

Rumi and Jinu connected on a very human level, that's true, but the tragedy of their relationship is that it couldn't really become more and what we end up mourning is the potential they had, the fact that they could have been so much more if given a chance.

So often stories try to convince us of these stronger-than-anything romantic arcs, but since a lot of the time romance is the B-plot at best and there's no time to develop it properly, we end up with the characters basically skipping all the stages from attraction and straight to pure and unadulterated love.

KPop Demon Hunters doesn't do that.

Instead, it focuses on the connection that was broken too fast and that's precisely why it resonates with us. It doesn't try to pretend that their romance is something that it isn't and that fact, more than anything else, makes it feel authentic.

I feel like a different ending would have cheapened the story somehow. We got a happy ending, yes, but it doesn't make it all good. It doesn't erase all the pain that we had to go through to get there.

And at the end of the day, it's not some grand love story.

No.

Instead, it's two broken people who connect, who feel attraction and who never get to explore what it means. The romance itself isn't some kind of be-all and end-all kind of thing.

It still matters, though.

Why? Well... because they still got to meet each other. They still got to heal, in their own ways. And that matters, too. Even if it wasn't meant to be the way we wish it was. Sometimes, that's just how it is.

EDIT If you enjoyed this little analysis I actually made a video essay on this topic and you can watch it here!

[disregardcanon]

saw a tiktok analysis today about how huntr/x's songs are about the artists and tHEIR feelings and they're sharing them with their fans like a conversation, but the saja boys have songs ABOUT "you" as an audience member. i want to take this a step further... the saja boys have songs that are explicitly about consuming the audience

in soda pop, it's very much presented at the cutesy Want You Need You boy bad stuff, but it's still about consumption. the audience are being compared to a fleeting, bubbly drink. a sweet treat. you are something to be used very briefly and then thrown away. "won't stop til my soda pop fizzles out". "gotta drink every drop". like, yeah there's the sexual undertones, but we as the audience know that it's not cutesy boy band stuff with a bit of a sexy undertone. this is about consuming people's souls. the band IS singing about it! their evil plan is right there in the tooth rotting bubble gum pop opener!

i didn't quite realize how ominous soda pop was until i listened to it in hindsight, but with the added context of your idol and all of ITS imagery... it's unsettling.

your idol of course starts with dies irae- the most famous part of a catholic REQUIEM MASS sung in a mainly traditional chant style. the isolating, possessive lyrics tinted with the heavy handed additions to the catholic imagery? placing them as the object of worship? like. it is just SO good. now these are VILLAINS!

[frohana]

screaming crying throwing up etc from this Arden Cho interview

TRAGIC BACKSTORY CELINE IS CANON

Link: https://collider.com/kpop-demon-hunters-sequel-idea-darker-deeper-andor-arden-cho-ji-young-yoo-may-hong/

‘KPop Demon Hunters’ Team Already Has an ‘Andor’-Style Idea for the Sequel [Exclusive]

The trio of stars behind KPop Demon Hunters teased a potential sequel idea that would go much darker than Netflix's colossal global hit.

[aspoonofsugar]

Rumi's Asymmetry

Soooooo, I noticed a small nice detail in most of Rumi's stage outfits (not her casual ones). As I mention here, Rumi's "golden" costume is characterized by an asymmetrical shoulder pad:

Well, it turns out this shoulder asymmetry is a recurring visual motif for her. We find it in both...

her default costume:

Rumi's yellow jacket has spikes on her left shoulder.

and her hunter uniform:

Rumi's black jacket has spikes, zips and tassels on the left side.

Why is that so?

Well, my interpretation/head-canon is that it symbolizes Rumi's duality as a half-hunter and a half-demon. After all, in both costumes she has spikes on her left side, which ends up looking more demonic in Rumi's darkest hour:

Even if to be fair it is her right arm, which is the most demonic-like :P

Moreover, this motif seems to come up often enough in concept art:

This seems like an early concept of the girls jumping down the plane. Rumi sports an asymmetrical top/asymmetrical gloves. So, her left side appears far more demonic than her right one.

This concept art has Rumi wear a green top with only one sleeve. This time it is her right arm which is covered. Two takes: 1- Green may be a color linked to "hiding", as Rumi wears it as a child and at the beginning of the Golden video; 2- Considering this one art and the previous one, I wonder if initially Rumi's marks were meant to cover only one side of her.

Here Rumi wears armor and spikes only on her left side. Once again, her mark seems reduced here compared to her canon appearance in the movie.

Interestingly, Rumi's "golden" outfit "switches sides", as there she wears a pad only on her right shoulder. Still, it may be an evolution of this concept art:

This seems to be an early concept of Rumi losing control of her demonic powers. We see her right side is better put together with her outfit intact and more golden decorations. Her left side is instead fully demonic with her eye gleaming, her hand having claws, her patterns spreading and her pants trashed. So, Rumi's canon golden outfit highlights this asymmetry. Her right sight is golden, while her left one stays in the shadows.

In short, they probably considered having Rumi's marks spread only on one side. If so, her outfits had to necessarily be asymmetric, so that she could cover her "demonic side". As the production went on, they changed this detail, but Rumi's asymmetrical outfits still symbolize her double nature: hunter and demon, human and monster, light and darkness.

[hellothere172]

Jinu was a starving artist.

I believe Jinu has always been talented.

I’ve seen lots of different interpretations of Jinu’s voice/musical ability. The general consensus seems to be that Jinu was gifted his voice and talent (or at least better voice and talent) by Gwi-Ma when he accepted the deal.

But if we take a deeper dive into what was actually said in the movie, it paints an interesting picture:

“I let you keep that voice, Jinu. And you dare to mock me with it?”

Keep. That’s the keyword here. If the creators wanted to make it clear that Jinu was gifted his voice in exchange for his soul, wouldn’t it have been much easier to convey that by having Gwi-Ma say “I gave you that voice” instead? I think that was an interesting choice of words.

Of course, it raises a few questions. Does Gwi-Ma have the ability to strip Jinu of his voice? Has he threatened to do so before to keep Jinu in line? I would venture to say yes, especially considering the physical/bodily control Gwi-Ma is shown to be able to assert over his demons.

“Overnight my fate was changed. I was praised for my voice, even by the King himself.”

This quote especially strikes me as indicative of what’s really going on with Jinu. He never once says that his voice got better. He says that he was finally praised for his voice.

If we think about Jinu’s circumstances, the time he is from and the Joseon caste system, raising above his lowborn status would’ve been out of the question. Even with his remarkable musical talent. The chance of being “discovered” was near impossible, since cheonmin often lived separately from the upper class.

I believe that what Gwi-Ma gave Jinu was opportunity. He opened up the door for Jinu to be discovered by someone of high standing. Someone who could get him into the palace. Someone who could finally give him the recognition he’d longed for. All while simultaneously leading Jinu down the path to abandon his family and drown in shame.

I believe that’s why Jinu was so good at being an idol. He loved it. Putting aside his main goal, it seems like every aspect of idol life was fulfilling to him. He seemed excited to pitch the idea to Gwi-Ma. He must’ve worked on it for years. He looked genuinely thrilled to win awards for his music. It wasn’t just a mission to him. He was passionate about it.

It’s almost like he wanted to prove to himself that, if he had been born into better and more fair circumstances, he could’ve turned his talent into something lucrative. It’s almost like he wanted to prove to himself that if it weren’t for his social standing, he could’ve provided for his family doing something he loved.

Jinu did not only starve in body during his human life. He also starved to be recognized for his natural talent. He was born into unfortunate circumstances that never allowed for that talent to thrive.

In my opinion, Jinu as a starving artist serves his story better, and is more conducive to demonstrating his motives throughout the movie. It adds layers to the tragedy and depth of his choices.

[bloodyshadow1]

I think the thing that kills me the most about the Celine haters in the fandom is how they will bend, twist, or out right ignore canon to bash her. No one is gonna say Celine didn't screw up but holy shit do people need to stop projecting their own issues with their parents onto her.

Specifically this is in regards to demons being evil, because I keep seeing it as something Celine poisoned the girls minds with. Yes, Celine was their mentor..., five years ago at the least. They have won the idol awards for the last 5 years (or this would be the 5th year in a row I can't really recall right now) that means that Huntrix has been actively singing to the masses and fighting demons for as long and probably longer. As amazing as Huntrix is and as lucky they are to have a good foundation with Celine creating them as a group, I wouldn't be surprised if it took at least a year to get off the ground.

Regardless, the point is, yes Celine taught them to fight demons, probably even to hate them. But you know what? nothing in those 5 years refuted anything she taught them. Every demon we see in the movie is actively trying to kill and eat people (or at least give the souls to Gwi-Ma so he can eat them. the whole eating souls thing is weird to me mechanically). And honestly, they seem to enjoy it.

The Saja boys, Jinu included, were happy to prey on people, we don't even know if the other Saja boys gained anything from Jinu's plan or if they were doing it for the pain and misery that they could wreak. Jinu was giggling when he ran away after letting the water demons ambush Huntrix. And you can't even say that the girls are a slay first ask questions never because we see them talking with demons, yes Rumi only questions 1 in the montage, but they have a lengthy chat with the demons on the plane. They dont' take them seriously but they only attack when the demons start to threaten their fans.

All I'm saying is that demons are bad, the movie doesn't even try to pretend that they're not. There's only 1 demon who potentially didn't do anything wrong and that's Rumi's unnamed never seen dad. Every other demon has at the very least tried to murder and eat people and in the story a lot of them have succeeded. All I'm saying is for as many people want to hate on Celine, she is not a bigot for wanting to kill creatures who all prey upon humanity. Just because there has been 1 single demon who has the potential to not be a monster doesn't change the hundreds of thousands, possibly millions of demons who have been actively been preying on humanity for 400 years.

Again, Celine is not innocent in Rumi breaking down, but she did not brainwash the girls into being demon haters. The nature of demons and hunting them is what made them hate them. and they aren't wrong for fighting them

[spoondrifts]

i've seen other people observe that this scene

looks a hell of a lot like jinu had no idea he wasn't going to be allowed to bring his family with him, and that he didn't leave them, the guards separated them at the gate. i think this is true but not in any sense that totally absolves him of wrongdoing—i think jinu relives this moment because it was the last time he saw them, not because he could've actually made a different choice at the time, and the core of his guilt and shame is everything he did after that moment. he feels guilty for enjoying his life in the palace, being fed and housed and valued by the upper class for the first time in his existence, and all of it is irrevocably soured by the knowledge that his family likely died hungry and cold and alone on the streets without him. so that alone makes sense

but the narrative definitely treats the moment at the gates as one where jinu had agency, and i wonder if there could've been an opportunity for a really interesting commentary on systemic oppression if the film had leaned in that direction. like, i feel that the reason "free" falls short for me as a song is that it frames rumi and jinu's issues as the same, while the overarching story hammers in repeatedly that they're very different. rumi was born with her patterns, jinu developed them after making a deal with gwi-ma, the reasons they're ashamed of themselves are not similar and rumi does realize this by the end of the movie, but i still think there could've been something really interesting there if jinu genuinely hadn't a choice in going to the palace alone.

the idea that someone should feel guilty for making choices that lift them out of poverty without also lifting up other people around them is so relevant to modern systemic injustice. blame is always placed on the individual instead of the systems in place that forced them into desperate decisions. if the guards truly separated them at the gates and the king forbid him from bringing his family inside, that isn't jinu's fault! it's not even his fault if he was relieved to be off the streets, if he loved living in luxury, if he took full advantage of his new circumstances to move up in the world. the blame really lies on the shoulders of every person who walked by them while they were begging on the streets, and on the king who offered only conditional patronage to jinu alone.

that doesn't mean jinu shouldn't feel anything about his family's fate, but the point is that the guilt is really misplaced. to me, it's like when people will insist that a homeless person is terrible and unforgivable for surrendering their pets to a shelter, because every housing service in their city doesn't allow pets. that's an impossible choice! it doesn't make them a bad person! and gwi-ma's insistence that jinu is a bad person for accepting help when it was offered to him at his lowest, when eternal damnation is the consequence of making a desperate choice in untenable circumstances, is completely unjust. and i think it really embodies the kind of societal pressure that people live under when they're going through hard times. jinu probably would've died with his family if he hadn't accepted gwi-ma's offer. it doesn't make you a bad person to want to live, or to put on your own oxygen mask before helping others.

and then! compare that to rumi's shame! the obvious queer allegories are there, but also the notion that you can be born into shitty circumstances that you had no control over, but still define your identity and place in the world. rumi is raised believing that she's a mistake, and the good and just world that she believes in has no place for her. so she repeatedly makes poor decisions out of desperation, hoping to be absolved of this deep, internalized shame if she can just carve away all the parts of her that make her unworthy. but crucially, this shame is also imposed on her. if she was raised by someone who didn't hate demons, who made space for her to exist and accommodated her unique existence, she wouldn't have been so vulnerable to the crushing betrayal jinu inflicts on her at the idol awards. it was both the fact that she lived her whole life among people tasked with upholding the cosmic social order, who immediately turned on her the moment they learned she wasn't one of them, and the external shame and pressure of being someone that society at large deems lesser, that straight up drove her to near-suicide.

through this lens, rumi and jinu's issues actually are very similar. rumi starts out denouncing everything she is and trying to fit in with this privileged caste of warriors who are meant to keep society safe from demons—but, through meeting jinu, is forced to reckon with the reality that demons (and herself) are not just parasites that leech off of humans and haunt the nightmares of civilized society, but are actually just people who were born into awful circumstances and have had to make impossible choices just to survive. more than that—just being born can condemn you, and ultimately the patterns have nothing to do with your individual agency at all. it makes rumi face the fact that she is reinforcing the very same systems that say all demons are evil, that she's evil, for things none of them can control, and in pursuit of turning the honmoon gold, she's aiming to just eliminate all of these people & condemn them to eternal suffering with gwi-ma instead of actually changing the injustices in the world that made them how they are. the hunters crafting a new honmoon in the finale represents an upheaval of the system, both redefining what it means to be a demon and what it means to be human, and grounding the new system on values of non-judgement, compassion, and reconciliation rather than shame.

of course, the movie itself didn't do any of this because that wasn't their goal and they wouldn't have had time for it anyway, but personally i do think it could've been a more satisfying way to marry rumi and jinu's arcs than the canon, if only because self-sacrifice in a film that's all about accepting yourself and choosing to live and move on after fucking up leaves a bad taste in my mouth. also, i do genuinely love when antagonists are legitimately morally gray, so this isn't a statement about how canon jinu is a poor little meow meow who never did anything wrong, he directly contributed to mass murder with all the soul-stealing and stuff, just that i think there are really interesting layers to this!