#layl.inbox

[moonlayl]

this is so random lol but its nearly 1am and ilysm. flower for u🌺 :>

thank you so much love!!!

ily too <333

[moonlayl]

Hi, Muslim buddy! I'm a big Fitz fan and he's a popular character among the fans, so I was shocked when I found out that you disliked him. I'm curious: why exactly do you dislike him? I've seen a few of your posts about him but it's not exactly clear. I'm also not up to date with the show at all, so have you always disliked him or is it just recently?

Just to be clear, this is not a hate ask! We can have different opinions about a show, it's okay! I'm just curious about your reasoning. 💕

Salam!

First, I want to assure you your ask didn't come off as hateful at all, don't worry!

I tend to tag any fitz negative post as #anti leopold fitz so that fitz fans can easily block it and avoid any negative content about a character they like. You can block it too if you want!

Second, I want to give you a little warning. This will get very long, I apologize, however, please read all of it if you wish to reply/have a discussion. This goes to anyone reading this. I don't want to repeat myself several time (I will link other posts me and others have made that go into more detail)

As to why i dislike Fitz....there's a lot. (more under the cut)

During the earlier seasons (s1-2) I liked him, though certain scenes and things about his character bothered me. The same could be said about the majority of the other characters so I didn't think much of it. He could be funny, I liked the fitzsimmons friendship (for the most part) and he was a cool side character.

In s3 and s4, his character began to change more and more, and I found myself slowly starting to dislike him. There was suddenly more scenes where his words/actions bothered me.

Those seasons are also the ones where fitzsimmons actually got together, and I'm not a fan of the way that ship was handled, mostly due to what it did to Simmons' character. That played a role as well in me beginning to dislike him.

It wasn't until s5 though, specifically after the episode 5x14 "The Devil Complex" that i truly started disliking his character, and it just got worse from there.

I want to be clear that I don't judge or have a problem with anyone who likes his character. I don't think it's somehow 'immoral' if you like Fitz. I just simply don't, here's some reasons as to why:

Cutting open Daisy, threatening an injured, disabled Yoyo, and shooting Mack.

This is the biggest reason. In 5x14, Fitz programs robots to threaten Yoyo, shoot Mack, hold Simmons at gunpoint, and then he personally knocks out Daisy, restrains her, and cuts into her neck. He risks paralyzing her, forces her powers back onto her as she screams in pain and pleads for him to stop (he does this without giving her painkillers, without being certified to give that sort of procedure in the first place, and without the appropriate tools and space required for a surgery. She could have been permanently paralyzed from the neck down.) He throws around disgusting rhetoric, and the show tries to get us to sympathize with him. We get a scene with him and simmons. We get a scene of simmons crying to deke. We don't get a scene about daisy or mack's feelings in the aftermath.

"Fitz was having a psychic split" "he wasn't himself" "it was the doctor, not him!"

ignoring the fact that he was fully himself by the time it got to actually going through with the procedure (he realized he was the doctor all along, before getting to the 'cutting daisy' part) AND ignoring the show not letting him receive help yet him never struggling in that way again somehow (which all seems like bad writing to me) Fitz AFTERWARDS, stated that he didn't regret his actions.

Not only does he say that, but when Daisy is reasonably upset and traumatized, he attempts to dismiss her feelings, proceeds to try and guilt trip her, shift the blame to her, and throw back her previous trauma in her face.

Daisy: we don't turn on our own here

Fitz: do you want me to recount all the times YOU did?

A) Daisy hardly ever turned on them (a few instances could count but implying they do is awful, considering the circumstances she was in. Leaving shield does NOT count as a 'betrayal' or 'turning your back'. This is the SECOND time Fitz blames her for something that is ridiculously unfair. especially because HE is the one at fault here. He is so unapologetic to her.)

The following is taken from a wonderful post made by @stilltryingtowrite: 

When a perpetrator of violence is confronted they will often deny or minimize the harm of their wrongdoing, attack their victim’s credibility, and reverse the victim and offender roles to make themselves out to be the victim. More info here.

So lets break down that scene in 5x15 when Daisy confronts Fitz after violating her consent in 5x14..

You can read the rest here but basically Fitz does the following things:

1. Denies and minimizes the harm of his wrongdoing 2. Attacks Daisy’s credibility as a victim 3. And tries to make her out to be the one in the wrong, while he simply did “what he had to do”

Another post, this one by me, that goes more into why Fitz implying Daisy turned on them is ridiculous. here

B) "Didn't have a choice" those are Fitz's words. he "didn't have a choice except to do what he did" That's just plain wrong and untrue.

he could've talked to her. he could have asked her. He could have explained how dire the situation was. He could have at least TRIED instead of immediately resorting to traumatizing her and and forcing her powers on her without her consent.

posts that go more into this that i highly recommend people read: 

here by @geraltcirilla and @ryder616 

and here by me 

It doesn't end there. Afterwards, Daisy (reasonably) locks him up. he's a danger to the team. He's a danger to himself. Who knew what he might do next "without meaning to", and despite having hurt her and traumatized her and almost gotten her and his other friends injured, he agrees that she's somehow a "hard*ss" for being upset. For locking him up after he committed multiple crimes that could've resulted in her paralyzed for life.

And the majority of the fandom agreed with that statement. saw so many fans say stuff like "Daisy was acting like such a b**ch this season!"

Fitz repeatedly being selfish and careless with people's lives.

there have been numerous instances in the show where Fitz makes a terrible decision (that he knows is terrible) that could result in others' deaths, and he goes through with them every time, and is mostly unapologetic.

1) possibly the biggest one. S7 finale. This man quite literally, plans on having 7 billion people die, uncaring, because "it was an alternate timeline" and therefore wouldn't be HIS timeline. Nevermind that it was HIM who brought that danger to this alternate timeline in the first place. 

posts: here by me, @stilltryingtowrite and @samanthaswishes

2) him and Simmons both getting their team members (and Simmons herself) killed in s7 several times. They programmed Enoch to kill anyone who tried to remove a chip from Simmons, without informing anyone, and then they erased Simmons' memories, meaning she also didn't know about the 'program to kill'. Enoch too, didn't know. Daisy, Deke, and Simmons all died from that. If there hadn't been a time loop, they could've permanently been dead. The reason for the programming of the chip was so stupid and made no sense.

Most would disagree with me, but a while back I made a post about why every possible reasoning for the chip's existence was stupid. here it is.

3) voting to let Piper kill herself. This is a post i made before:

Remember that part in the 100th aos episode when they thought one member of the team needed to die to save the day, and they were all tripping over  themselves to try to be the one that will be sacrificed so that the others didn’t have to, except for fitz who immediately was like “let piper kill herself. She feels guilty enough to accept her fate” and then he got married that same ep. that was messed up. 

LITERALLY. Everyone was like "let me be the one to die, so no one else has to!" (with the exception of Deke, who also kind of sucks) but Fitz is just like "Let Piper do it!" who DOES that?

He’s just perfectly willing to volunteer someone else to die, that’s just unacceptable. 

4) In order to save Simmons in s3, he has no regards to anyone else, and risks Daisy's life without her consent. She would've agreed regardless but he just jumped into the portal after KNOWING Daisy was feeling certain side effects from the portal and after she'd fainted and had a nose bleed. She could've died and there was no apology.

5) He helps Hydra open a portal to Hive. It results it countless inhumans dying, Lincoln dying, and even others dying, all because Fitz didn't want to lose Jemma. he aided a Nazi organization that was planning on bringing some sort of ancient monster from another planet. He knew this and still did what they asked.

6) He fixes the gravitonium machine for Ruby, knowing it was gravitonium that causes the entire WORLD to be destroyed. Again, just for Simmons. (so many times, he chooses one person's life, over the entire world.)

post by @samanthaswishes here

Fitz mistreating Simmons, and the Fitzsimmons relationship being misogynistic (imo)

So here’s me summarizing while also linking posts that go into more details about all the things wrong with he fs relationship (which contributes to me disliking his character)

blaming jemma for having the audacity to care for another man before they were even in a relationship: by me

general issues about simmons never getting to be her own character due to fitz and fs relationship: by anon

fitz getting angry at the idea of living with simmons: by me

the entirety of fitzsimmons being her acting like a mother/caretaker for him, instead of an actual partner: by me

fitz talking trash about simmons when she's not there

why fs relationship is bad, why it's unfair to simmons, and fitz' jealousy knowing no bounds: by me

Fitz being completely insensitive and ignorant to others' suffering.

there have been numerous instances in the show where he’s just...insensitive to others’ suffering. 

1. (this one is understandable, but when you add it up with everything else, it shows a clear pattern) In s1, After Ward is revealed to be hydra, revealed to have killed several people (a man being questioned, Victoria Hand, two police officers, Keonig) and after he’d just KIDNAPPED Skye, threatened her, and locked her up, Fitz tells Skye, TO HER FACE, that he doesn’t buy it. That there is no way Ward could’ve done that. Despite Skye herself having just been kidnapped and traumatized and literally told by Ward himself. 

It’s not until Ward hurts HIM specifically, that he actually believes it, and by then it’s too late. 

It’s just really terrible, in my opinion, to look a victim of someone directly in the eye, and say you don’t believe it or that there must have been a mistake, etc...

2. Immediately after Simmons gets back from being kidnapped on an alien planet for 6 months, Fitz takes her to a fancy restaurant for a date, without telling her. She immediately starts crying for a variety of reasons and he comforts her (which is good), but the idea of taking her to a date right after she went through a horrible ordeal and when it’s still VERY fresh, and she’s still not sleeping well, and still coping with everything, is highly insensitive, and was clearly something to just make himself better rather than her. 

Maybe he thought that would cheer her up? Except it was still insensitive on his part. 

3. While I pointed this out in the fitzsimmons section, it bears repeating. 

When Simmons is upset, because a man she admitted she loved was in literal danger on an alien planet, Fitz goes on about his suffering and “the universe splitting them apart” despite it being not the time nor place. He goes as far as to contemplate whether he should save an innocent man’s life or not. In that scene, you can see how exhausted and emotionally drained Jemma is, but he goes on and on, saying things that do nothing except make her feel guilty because...she dared have feelings for someone else? That entire scene was just him letting out all his frustrations and anger and hurt (which, understandable) on her, even though she was the one going through a rough time and his words only made her feel much worse and unfairly blame herself for things outside of her control. It’s as if he was using her as an emotional punching bag (that, is not as understandable). 

Worse, s6 makes it clear he still held a grudge against her, even though she’s the one who suffered. She’s the one who lost someone she cared about. She’s the one who grieved. She’s the one who had to deal with that. 

4. When Daisy leaves shield, after having been brainwashed, forced to hurt people she cares about, forced to go through withdrawal, forced to watch her boyfriend literally die for her (she’d spent months seeing his very last moments in her head so she even knew the exact second he died and how it happened), and after the government had decided people like her needed to be monitered and forced to sign accords that would take away some of her rights, Fitz makes it all about him. 

She’s sitting in front of him, injured, and suicidal, and clearly not doing well, and all he can do is berate her, yell at her, accuse of her of “turning her back” and “not caring”. 

He never apologizes. She’s literally yelled at, and treated like crap, while going through the worst period of her life and being in a terrible place, physically, emotionally, and mentally, and all he can do is think about himself and how he personally doesn’t like change. Talk about being a terrible friend.

Contrast that to her comforting him and standing by him at the end of s4, when he was freaking out about his actions in the framework, and... well... he was clearly being unfair to her. 

5. This one, isn’t as big of a deal because it was just something that slipped out, but like... saying “maybe getting your arms chopped off wasn’t all bad” (or something very very similar) to Yoyo, literally a few days after her surgery and after she was mutilated is just...wrong. 

It was clear he immediately recognized that he shouldn’t have said that, but holy crap, COME ON MAN!This is just moments after he was broken out of his cell (which he was placed in, for harming several other teammates.)

6. The way he treated Deke. Everyone else had clear reasons to distrust/dislike Deke at first. Fitz didn’t, yet even upon discovering Deke was HIS grandson, he tells Deke he wished someone else was his godson, and spends the rest of the season treating him like complete and utter garbage. 

I mean, I have issues with Deke’s character, but what in the hell was Fitz’s problem?? It’s not like Fitz himself was better than Deke. 

7. I’ve said before, but basically throwing the rest of the team in s7 to the wolves, and then having the audacity to go “you guys didn’t do things according to plan!” when they didn’t even know the plan. Also “no, we shouldn’t help save all of humanity in another timeline from a problem we personally brought to them and that would kill them, making their death and destruction on us, because then it would reduce our chances of success by a few percentages” 

How is this guy even real??? 

So there you have it, this was very long, but these are the reasons (with examples) of why i dislike Fitz. This isn’t to make anyone agree, and I’’’ repeat what I said earlier: I have no problems at all with fans who like Fitz. I just personally don’t. 

[moonlayl]

I’m conflicted cause on one hand I’d love to see Daisy & Chloe again, on the other hand I don’t trust the MCU w her and I especially don’t trust them to not change her from an Inhuman to a Mutant seeing as that’s what they did to Kamala

Right????

Like...if they make her a mutant and/or completely change a lot of her story from the show....it's going to be upsetting. I mean, if she does show up, I'm not expecting it to be post s7 Daisy, but I still want it to not be a direct contradiction to the version of her from the show.

And unlike when they introduced mutant characters before without making them actual mutants, this wouldn't be the same, because marvel DOES have the rights to inhumans now.

(Here comes the "quake was originally a mutant in the comics!" despite that not being true -_-)

[moonlayl]

could be just me being aromantic again but I hate how fitz and jemma putting each other over the entire world is romantic and healthy. An obvious co-depenacy, plus, it's just... it's like they get to love each other so that makes it ok to be not only a shitty friend, but a shitty person. I'm not saying "he should have let Jemma die" but he can't apply that logic of "I love my friends and people around me so I did that" when it comes to what he did to daisy. Even in the framework, jemma does really dumb stuff for lOvE and THEN EXCUSES FITZ FOR HURTING DAISY LIKE THAT IN SEASON 5. it's so annoying. she just became "I love fitz" and like, nothing else after season 2 or early 3 ish. It's so painfully obvious that they put themselves above others. I know they "keep getting ripped apart" but that doesn't excuse shitty actions. they can be as annoying and sickeningly in love as they like and not hurt their friends, but after what happened in season 5, I'm just so tired of it. this wouldn't be acceptable if it was platonic so why does this romance get a pass?

Exactlyyyyy!

Listen, I am a sucker for the “in order to save the person I love (or the world), I endanger myself” trope, because the idea of not being able to handle the person you care about hurting, and wanting them to live on, or be safe, or the idea of wanting to save people, at the expense of yourself is, while absolutely heartbreaking, actually something decent??? And heroic? I mean it’s bad in the sense of “why do you have so little self worth?????“ but at the same time, it’s understanding that sometimes there’s something bigger than you, and you could help many people. It’s not always about not having self worth either. You can have a lot of self worth but still recognize that a movement, or a decision can be much bigger than yourself and could lead to a better life for many, even if it’s at your expense, which is just unfortunate and horrifying. This trope has so much room for angst and pain and love, and I’m obsessed with it.

But that’s the key part. It being at YOUR expense.

With fitzsimmons, it’s no longer about that. It’s suddenly, “actually I’m willing to risk EVERYONE ELSE” to have you. To save you.

THAT is what infuriates me and makes me seriously roll my eyes when they go through terrible things in the later seasons and I’m expected to…be upset? Sympathize?

Like…sorry but a guy willing to risk his entire team, and THE WHOLE WORLD, and a woman who’s entire character ends up revolving around this guy, who also ends up wiling to risk other people for their “happily ever after” or whatever, they’re just…not good people.

The amount of times it’s happened too…

Like starting in s3, every season one of them makes the a decision like that. In the later seasons, they both mage those decisions during separate occasions in the season.

I’m still not over s7 where half the team were literally murdered by Enoch, because he was programmed BY fitz and simmons to kill. Like if it hadn’t been for the time loop, their team could’ve been literally dead. And for what? To protect their daughter?

It makes no sense and I’ve spoken about it before. If the team had died, their daughter still wouldn’t have been safe because the chronicoms would’ve won and either destroyed earth, or changed the past so that she wouldn’t have existed in the first place. Like??? They were SO stupid in s7.

Don’t get me started on Fitz deciding that abandoning 7.9 billion people to the chronicom problem (that would’ve led them all to die or be enslaved) after HE organized for that issue to be brought to their doorstep, was a good idea. And then when the rest of the team are like??? We’re not going to abandon them to die?? He’s like “that decreases our chances of succeeding to 85%”

THOSE ARE HUMAN LIVES YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT.

And Jemma in s6?

Daisy, Piper and Davis: “we’ve been in outer space for a year with hardly any leads. Davis has a baby son he never got to know, we should head back because we’re running low on resources, and if we stay here for much longer, we might not be able to get back”

Jemma: “well, even though Daisy is the leader of the mission and should be the one making the shots, and even though all of you have sacrificed a lot this past year to help ME, I’m going to spit on all of that and force you to accompany me further, despite our dwindling resources and all the risks, because I have a feeling I might find fitz, even though our journey has been useless so far.”

And it’s not until she’s drunk that she offers a ridiculously awful apology that Daisy accepts immediately.

She does the same in the framework. They all almost didn’t make it back to the real world, and almost DIED for good, because she once again, went against Daisy’s orders (it’s a pattern at this point, we should make a gif set. S4 vs s5 vs s6, simmons having zero respect for Daisy’s authority) for fitz.

It’s just frustrating.

To be fair though, while not the same, both Daisy and May did a similar thing at the end of s5 (which made me soo mad) but the difference I guess is that they did firmly believe Coulson would’ve been able to get to Talbot, and Robin, a girl who sees the future, implied Coulson was crucial to the whole “preventing the end of the world” thing. Still annoyed me.

Sorry for taking so long to reply anon. I hope you don’t mind me ranting lol. Thank you for sending in this ask!

[moonlayl]

hey I'm not sure if this is unpopular to say but why did we ever really like Lance hunter? he wasn't that great and really rude to the absolute queen that is Bobbi Morse. like, did he redeem himself? he's not bad, but annoying without many great qualities. honestly it might just be the way he treats bobbi, it just rubs me wrong and gives me the ick.

Hello anon! Sorry this is about a week 4 months late. (I’m awful at this, I know)

So there are several instances in the show where Hunter pisses me off (when he talks about Bobbi behind her back, when he “advises” Fitz not to save Will (which is really inexcusable) when he refuses to say “don’t die out there” to Bobbi because he’s angry she wants to handle ward—the guy who hurt HER—herself, etc…)

But I disagree about him not having good/redeeming qualities. One of his main qualities is his loyalty to the people he cares about. He tells may “shield’s all about the mission, not the person next to you”

And even though I’m the kind of person who thinks that sometimes (not always though) a mission could actually be that important, I have to admire the way Hunter is dedicated to helping out his teammates. He drops everything to rush and help Fitz in s5. Even at the possible expense of his life, or Bobbi, he doesn’t betray the other members in “parting shot”. During a time when he hardly knew Daisy, he still tries to offer her the kind of advice he thought would be helpful, so she wouldn’t get too attached and hurt.

Hunter is also unique in the sense that he actually criticizes shield, and never stops doing so. It is such a relief to have a character in those two seasons so unafraid of calling literally anyone out. When Mack is reasonably angry that Trip died over a mission Coulson refused to share details about, and May tells him to remember his “rank”, Hunter immediately says “really? Rank at a time like this?”

And, for May, especially at that time in the show, going back to the rules and protocols made sense for her. It offered her a certain amount of comfort and familiarity and if she distances herself from emotion and focuses on work, it helps her. I get that.

But what Hunter said is true. One of their members was dead, and while WE, the audience, understand what was going on and why Coulson did what he did, the other members of the team didn’t, and they all had to grieve for Trip without even knowing much of what was going on (Also, Mack literally got possessed by some mist). So he’s right. It really wasn’t the time for pulling the rank card.

This isn’t the first time he’s distrustful of shield (and reasonably so! I wished more characters would call out shield and the director, even if it was Coulson!) and that to me is part of the reason I like him.

Also during s2, when the “real shield” is revealed, despite Bobbi and Mack—the two people Hunter arguably knows best—being a part of it, Hunter still stops at nothing to inform Coulson, because while he may not completely agree with shield, he learned to trust Coulson and he’s LOYAL. He helps Fitz out, legitimately seems determined to locate Daisy after she disappears, and in the third season, he’s very clearly completely overjoyed that simmons is alive. Literally claps and yells “oh fitz, you absolute beauty!” When he hears fitz managed to help rescue simmons.

Those are all the actions and words of a man who CARES.

He also, arguably, is the funniest character on the show. By season 2 and season 3, that humour and wit was quite welcome. I legitimately found myself laughing out loud many times during his scenes. That’s another reason I like him.

As for how he treated Bobbi, I guess the reason it doesn’t bother me the way fitzsimmons bothers me (in terms of how Fitz treats Simmons) is because Bobbi is equally as flawed when it comes to their relationship and scenes as Hunter is. She doesn’t always treat him the best, and he isn’t always treating her the best, yet the both love and care for each other in their own way, so it’s very equal. I don’t think anyone uses them as an example of a perfect and healthy relationship, lol. She was a huge reason their relationship never worked out. I love Bobbi with all my heart and she’s one of my favourite aos characters, but she is a liar and she’s also very manipulative when she wants to be (which is not me hating her, I mean those aren’t good traits but they’re realistic and I WANT female characters to be flawed). We only really see them and their relationship after their divorce and after being informed that she lied to him all throughout their relationship and marriage (which makes sense, she wasn’t going to tell him about shield, but obviously keeping a big secret like that from your partner isn’t a good thing) We also than find out she was lying to him all throughout season 2, when they got back together. 

Hunter has quite a few moments where he’s a complete prick, but given the way he and Bobbi’s relationship was like and how dishonest she usually was with him (and all throughout s2 when they were supposedly trying to rebuild their relationship) him being annoyed at her and making a few comments doesn’t really bother me. 

I mean there’s no actual excuse for misogyny in general and all the aos male characters have certain questionable lines or scenes (due to the writing) so I’m not trying to say his worser moments are okay, I just don’t think he treated Bobbi very badly considering who she is, and what their relationship has always been. Especially when we get scenes like:

Bobbi *while lying to him for so long*: will you never trust me?

Hunter: but I'll never stop wanting to

Like this dude loves her and is protective of her, and overall actually takes her lying to him well (aside from a few comments and jokes). They’re both messed up people who clearly don’t really know how to properly hold on to a marriage and that’s why it kind of works? That’s why it doesn’t bother me as much because it’s like, okay, you both can be so goddamn horrible to each other, but you both care for each other so much. You both bring out the worst and the best in each other depending on the day and situation. 

It’s like Mack said: “Man, you two deserve each other”

This isn’t a Lance Hunter defense post necessarily,  I just want to point out the redeeming qualities I personally see in this character, and why they make me like this character, but I totally understand your opinion op and respect it!

[moonlayl]

fitz in the framework: "we will make out society great again"

me, over him since season 2: ok trump we get it ur evil now

Okay, the cool thing about this scene in particular is that it came out after the elections when Trump became president.

The aos writers literally included a hydra leader saying that to make a point!

But yeah, framework Fitz or "doctor" Fitz is so annoying. Iain is a great actor but damn I did not enjoy doctor Fitz, not even as a villain. Like...there's something entertainingly unsettling about calm and collected villains. Their silence is dangerous. But with doctor Fitz, it's just plain annoying. It didn't work. Whitehall did it better (as a villain, I mean)

And then ofc, we get Fitz in s5.

The foreshadowing though!

Daisy in 5x12 saying "This isn't hydra, Leopold!" and

Daisy in 5x15 saying "You are not leaving this room. You are Hydra!"

[moonlayl]

tbh, if iman meant the mcu, then she probably would have been team iron man purely because if tony was kamala's superhero mentor, then he would have called on her as well as peter and she would have answered that call. note that peter didn't really know what he was doing there either— i'm sure if captain america had been her mentor, she would have been on his side instead. i think that's why iman vellani said that kamala would be team iron man. there is no other choice for her— if they had followed that plotline from the comics, and if kamala had been a really new superhero, the same way peter had been at the time of civil war.

I see where you're going with this anon, but honestly, Iman saying that is probably just because she herself is a huge tony stark stan and is team ironman (she revealed so, in a sort of interview/game for her show).

And I'm pretty sure the question iman was asked was what Kamala would've chosen, and I interpreted as what mcu kamala would've picked if she'd understood the entire situation (since Iman does).

[moonlayl]

I'm glad that you exist. <3

thank you!! <333