Hi! I've really enjoyed your tags on the reblog of the screencaps of The Believers on my sideblog @nonkunchanon. I was wondering what are your thoughts on Monk Dol's next move now that he's been rejected by Dear, whether he would disrobe or not. And I think Pup will be back for The Believers Season 2 though, since at least according to this interview, it seems like Pup is ready to shave his head again to be Monk Dol. Also do you think Win has any feelings for Dear?
HOLY SHIT. With this ask you've basically allowed me to ramble about The Believers. THANK YOU THANK YOU SADHU X100
Also, Pup has an interview?! And he's ready to be Monk Dol again?!
SADHU X1000.
Thank you for linking it, fella appreciator!
Okay. I'll tell you what I think, but you're gonna have to reblog this and tell me what you think too, because I'm also interested in your thoughts!!!
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Monk Dol's next move
Okay! There are two perspectives I can go for: the showrunners' + actor's, and the character's. Judging from both Thai and international fans' reviews and reception, Monk Dol is a really, really popular character, isn't he (who can blame him)? Popularity usually incentivizes bringing a character back for Season 2, and Pup does seem pretty happy playing the character. All that means there are really good grounds to think he'll return, ahahhaha! I'm with you on this one!
However! From the character's perspective, it's a bit more nuanced, methinks!
I, uh, study Buddhist Philosophy for fun, so I can tell you that the biggest reason why I like Monk Dol is that every single dhamma talk/sermon he gave, as well as his character traits and personality, are aligned with Buddhism. In a show criticizing the commercialization of Thai Buddhism (and its relation with politics), Dol provides an example of what Buddhism "is supposed to be about."
I've been rewatching the series every now and then when I'm free, so I got to re-watch his scenes and Dhamma talks. The teachings are actually legitimately correct. Not even "Pop culture-diluted correct" or "I guess it's a correct interpretation," but befitting the dhamma as espoused in Theravadin Buddhism, which Thai Buddhism falls under.
That means Monk Dol's themes and character arc are deliberately woven with Buddhist philosophy, including concepts like anicca ("impermanence") and nekkhamma ("renunciation; letting go"). This makes it harder to write him back into Season 2 without hurting a little of the themes he's supposed to represent, you see?
In his letter to Dear, he talked about how, thanks to his love and attachment for Dear, he realized that "there are many more things about myself that I need to train on." It's a very Buddhist sentiment (the Buddha's last word before death/parinibbana was, reportedly, "strive diligently." You might also remember one of Dol's Dhamma Talks on the importance of self-effort over superstitious reliance on holy objects and the Buddha; it was his first talk since joining Wat Phummaram).
The way he exited the story was him practicing nekkhamma and the sort of "love" he talked about earlier. He also alluded to their interaction as remnants of their past kamma (this is how it's spelled in Pali; it's "karma" in Sanskrit) influencing their current lives.
Just a brief explanation in case you don't understand the "kamma" thing!
In a supernatural reading of kamma, the effects of your actions in your past lives with other people can bring over to your current life. Therefore, Dol was saying that him falling in love with Dear/Dear unintentionally "charmed" him was no fault of himself nor Dear, but simply the effects of their collective kamma. He merely saw his experience—of falling in love and being rejected; of being conned and used because of said love; the general dukkha (suffering) of it all—as a lesson illuminating aspects of himself that he should overcome.
Dol recognized that he needed to let go of his attachment to Dear as she never belonged to him; previously, he explained that as part of the Buddhist doctrine of Anattā ("non-self") when he answered Dear's question about love. He also told her not to remember him, which to me, all adds up to him hoping this is it. He's hoping that the effects of their past kamma had burned out.
Now, if they want to continue the Buddhist philosophical theme undergirding Monk Dol's character, then the "good end" will be him not showing up in Season 2 at all. From a storytelling perspective, it makes sense too: his arc has a definite end already.
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However, I can also imagine ways to pull Monk Dol back into the fold without costing his underlying Buddhist themes. For one, "kamma," to the Buddha, mostly means "action" when it's not "cause-and-effect." While Dol would like to think his kamma with Dear is over, it's also possible that his actions and interactions with Dear—and to an extent, Win and Game—have planted seeds of their own, with their own effects to be reaped. These effects can be explored in Season 2.
Where should he go? He has already exchanged his forest monk lineage for a city monk's, but his idea of Buddhism is embodied in the Thai Forest tradition, not the city ones. Can he return to his original forest temple, though? We saw that he was "punished" by one of the eminent temple monks when Win and Dear were trying to collect sacred ingredients for their amulet.
His changing of lineage was not without consequences, and it's a bit hard to imagine him being accepted back to his original temple easily. Thai Forest Tradition is a lot stricter than other schools in Thailand, and a monk who pivots from one school to another can be seen as wishy-washy, unreliable, lacking in discipline, and rather disgraceful by forest monks.
Hence, I would imagine that he either joins a very remote forest temple far away from Wat Phummaram and the show's central background region... or becomes a solitary monk.
No matter which way he chooses, though, I can imagine him being even more ardent in his practice, and perhaps rather avoidant of female laypeople. Even if he has no intention to discriminate, he might try to overcorrect his previous lapse with Dear by putting a wide berth between himself and other women no matter their intentions. I can also imagine him struggling with the actual process of renunciation, which is never as easy as it might sound. His experience with Dear is going to affect him a lot. Even dreams of her are possible.
And from there, I suppose there are two ways for him to join with the trio's Main Plot. Either he coincidentally gets roped back into their activities, or he deliberately looks out for any news about Dear and her gang because he still cares about her wellbeing.
If Monk Dol takes a more active role, he might gradually come into the line of fire by standing up against this sort of commercialized Buddhism. He might also try to help Dear (plus Win and Game; it's more understated, but Dol also cares about those two. We see it in the interrogation scene) to get out of their quandary.
I think Dol will be quite punished for his actions, though. As in, he'll suffer quite a bit. Not sure if he might die, per se, but I'll suspect something worse than what he got in Season 1. I hope he doesn't die, but that's only because I'm personally no fan of martyr tropes, ahahha!
There are also significant odds that Dol will manage to change Dear and Game's hearts through his actions and counsel once he rejoins the trio in the Main Plot. It will be harder to reach Win, I assume, because Win is the least receptive and warmed up to religions, and his attitude toward Buddhism has been very irreverent. Throughout Season 1, Win's attitude toward Monk Dol has been that of a tech bro looking at his most valuable asset.
Nonetheless, Dear and Game, being Win's friends, can bridge that gap along with Dol and Win's mother. Philosophically, it will exemplify paṭiccasamuppāda, "dependent co-arising"—causes are interdependent with one another as people are also interdependent with one another. Whether that's enough to change their fate in Season 2 is a whole 'nother thing!
That's as far as I can hypothesize about Monk Dol! I'll expect even more Buddhist-flavored character study, a psychological/philosophical arc, and if Monk Dol inclines, a more active counter-power to the corruptive political forces that have claimed Dear, Game, and Win.
Does Win Like Dear?
It's hard to say. I have to put out a disclaimer that I'm terrible at understanding human emotions and especially love because I... personally cannot feel it nor understand it! I honestly didn't even realize that Dol likes Dear until the Repentance Ritual!
I lean toward thinking Win doesn't love Dear or like her the way she—or us normal folks—hopes for a healthy romantic relationship. Win is a pragmatist who's pretty obsessed with "winning." He has a very strong ego; he wouldn't even talk to Game after the amulet business was booming, almost as if he's hoping to see Game climb back to him and apologize for being wrong and doubting him. He also saw no problem using Dear as an unwitting honeypot trap to control Monk Dol, despite Dear being someone who likes him.
I especially love the flashback scene to Dear's mother's passing. You can see Win's character in detail there; he engaged with Dear on a surface level, thinking it's enough to comfort her by telling her facts about death and failing to realize what she actually needed until Dear requested it upfront (it also served as a great contrast to Win's foil: Monk Dol interacts with other people differently. Dol always tries to address the underlying questions, takes time to listen, and only gives answers he believes are beneficial and helpful. He's like this to Monk Ekechai and even the cop who looks like fucking Robert Downy Jr.).
Win exhibited very little empathy for other people. Remember how he didn't help a granny with her bag until he realized he could talk to her while they walked together, so he could fish out any potential bait to lure Monk Dol into their scheme? If I were to describe this particular aspect of Win's character from a Buddhist perspective, I'd say he displays the near enemy of the concept of mettā, "friendliness." He is capable of caring about people only from an explicitly egocentric view, instead of caring for others for their own sake.
This hinders whatever he could have had with Dear, I think. Even if these two get together romantically, I honestly don't think it will be a rewarding relationship to Dear at all. Win is callous to everyone and is more obsessed with feeding his ego through perceived victories against the odds than anything else.
However, I don't actually think Win is incapable of caring about Dear, Game, or anyone else. I can't point fingers and tut-tut Win when I myself am also really low on empathy. In fact, from my own experience, I know that low empathy doesn't preclude apathy or an immutable lack of care. You can even catch a glimpse of Win's capacity for care in how he treated his cat.
Win also clearly suffers from trauma related to his father's disappearance. In true Buddhist fashion, there is an emphasis on cause-and-effect (i.e. kamma) in the show, telling us that he's the way he is precisely because of his experiences growing up.
We can also use his most obvious show of care as a comparison. Win is fiercely devoted to his mom and loves her deeply, and yet he's also dismissive of her thoughts, feelings, and sentimental offers to deepen their relationship. His care for her only showed when his mom was directly threatened, or when he believed his image in his mother's heart was close to being destroyed.
I think this allows the audience a bit of insight into how Win treats his loved one; he's also dismissive of Dear's feelings, thoughts, and needs... and yet that doesn't mean he doesn't care about her. There were times when he clearly cared and relied on her as a friend; he tried to call her near the end of Season 1 when he was feeling emotionally vulnerable as he was undergoing an onset of PTSD, for example.
Can that platonic care become a base for romance? I don't know. But to me, it really shows us that none of the trio are "evil," unlike what Cop RDJ insisted while interrogating Monk Dol—not even Win. In true Buddhist fashion, Win was just deluded ("moha," one of the Three Poisons) and merely needed more guidance.
Since his past is coming into the spotlight at the end of Season 1, going into Season 2, I think Win's character arc has only just begun. Dear and Game will play big roles in that as his friends and confidants, for sure, but this is also where Monk Dol's role in Season 2 can fit (as stated above).
I can't say if Win will end up falling in love with Dear for real at the end of S2 since it's not gonna be my personal subject of interest. But I'll love to see Win's striving in Season 2. As a certain monk says in his letter, I sure hope Win can also be free from his suffering, ahhahah!
Okay, I dare not reblog your response to the essay post because the length of it is already too much, so Imma continue/reply through this new ask instead!
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First: Thank you! I'm delighted that you enjoyed my rambling essay so much! And if it's good, it's only because you asked the right questions and gave me this opportunity to yap! An answer is only as good as its question allows it to be, after all!
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Assuming that the paper receipt Win found in the last episode implied his missing? dead? dad was also caught up in some money laundering shady business at the temple, I think Win will play some kind of double agent character in S2 where he’s forced into both running shady temple business all the while reporting back to the RDJ-looking cop.
YES! I think Win's gonna find himself in a teeth-clench cooperation with Cop RDJ (and the feelings might be mutual until maybe the two of them reach an understanding as S2 progresses)!
That cop seriously has more things going on with him beyond what we glimpsed. He has very personal goals he wants to achieve—whatever means necessary. Could he actually be a personal friend of Win's father? Or someone who used to work with him? Is Win's father the common thread between Win and Cop RDJ?
I'm very interested in his side of the story, man!
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To be honest, they’ve ended Monk Dol’s arc so well, I really don’t want to sacrifice his character’s integrity and beliefs for the sake of the narrative but I also badly need him onscreen again as the only character with a moral compass in this series full of peope without it ಥ_ಥ
Sadhu, you nailed my struggle! I know I shouldn't be attached, but bro, I am. Too late!!! Y'all made him too charismatic and earnest in his practice and conduct, and now you created one of the best religious-affiliated characters I've ever met in my personal list of fiction.
Imagine if Monk Dol was a real person I know!!! Yo, I'll do anything to be his kalyāṇa-mitta ("noble/virtuous friend;" Buddhist friendship characterized by camaraderie in helping each other improve while practicing The Noble Eightfold Path. It includes chastising each other for unskillful conduct, etc).
I like to point out that Monk Dol was also written to be afflicted with the Three Poisons (klesa) through his attachment to Dear, so he's actually flawed despite being the best boy person in the series. He showed delusion (moha) such as thinking Dear could ever be with him and that he should disrobe to be with her. He showed attachment (rāga), most obvious in his dream of Dear and that scene in the bathroom. The only klesa he exhibited the least, even when he had grown attached to Dear, was aversion or hatred (dosa), but it was still present—in his quiet resentment and growing regret over becoming a monk at too tender an age. He was growing averse to his life as a monk.
So I think, one of the many functions Monk Dol provided in สาธุ was also about a Buddhist's valorization of growth from mistakes. Instead of characterizing his lapse with Dear as a sort of fall in morality or failure in his religious duty, the emphasis was placed on how Monk Dol overcame his delusion. In Buddhist ethics, moral progress is extolled—more so than moral duty and moral adherence. It's all about effort, striving, and using your mistakes to learn; Monk Dol's character arc exemplifies that.
One of the Buddha's lauded disciples was Aṅgulimāla, a serial killer, after all.
Okay LOOK I REALLY LIKE THIS GUY, OKAY
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Whatever happens in S2, I hope S2 gives me lots of Monk Dol internal struggles, nothing I love more than a tortured gentle, kind soul (@ สาธุ scriptwriters, please don’t use my beloved Monk Dol as a sacrificial martyr though, HE’S SUFFERED ENOUGH) getting a bittersweet, hopeful-ish open ending.
OH SHIT. I... I'm also a sucker for tortured gentle, kind soul!!! Ahhhhhhh!
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I LOVE the scene you chose to make your new gif.
Because this Dhamma talk was probably the hardest-to-understand of all. I'll tell you why...
In this one, Monk Dol was explaining upādāna ("clinging; attachment"). However, he wasn't talking about the usual stuff about attachment like "don't be attached to money" "don't be attached to beauty" or "don't be attached to fame."
He's talking about attachment to things Buddhists think are good. Meditation. Making merits. Offering alms to monks. The rituals. He's saying that one should not even be attached to these good things. "It's easy to be attached to things that feel pleasant. But we should not be attached to them, too."
It's very counterintuitive. Buddhists are taught that all of these stuff are good and moral, so why not be attached to them?
Because if you're so stuck in doing them, it will also start to become a burden to your mind, and then it turns into suffering. But there's also more to it!
The Buddha had an analogy for this (I forgot in which sutta/sutra, though. Bruh yapped way too much and had a shit ton of sutta in the Pali Canon). Paraphrasing from my memory here:
The Dhamma is a boat. When you want to cross the river and reach the other side, you use the Dhamma (and related tools). But once you reach it and are now on land, do you still hold onto the boat? No. You discard it, having no longer need it on land. To cling to anything when it's no longer required causes dukkha.
This is what Monk Dol was also saying in that talk. Samadhi ("wisdom") during meditation is nice and pleasant, but true samadhi is knowing when to be detached from the pleasantry of meditation so that the "bliss" of it doesn't distract you from your real goal (of Enlightenment).
And this, I need to stress, was the Dhamma talk Monk Dol was giving in his first appearance. I was absolutely floored and impressed, man, because this isn't something someone with a more pop culture understanding of Buddhism can come up with. Again, fucking props to the scriptwriters and their advisors; they really know their shit!
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Okay yea I am done rambling ahahhaha. Please, if you cook more The Believers gif set I will EAT THEM SO GOOD. I wish more people are into this shit, goddamn. And I can't wait for Season 2!!!
(You have no idea how happy I am to find a fellow appreciator like you!)
Thank you Lyn for once again blessing me with even more insights into the brilliant writing and details in the characterisation of Monk Dol (i don't deserve this. cries happy tears ಥᴗಥ. months and months of waiting and lurking in the สาธุ tag for fellow สาธุ appreciators has finally come into fruition. i truly have no regrets spending hours screencapping สาธุ. always said they were purely self-indulgent but i must admit i always secretly hope people would come across them and gave the series a chance).
I didn't think I could love Monk Dol more but you have truly proven that Monk Dol is truly in fact best flawed boi monk. In a series with such a sensitive topic, I understand that careless writing could have easily made him a terrible character or cause great controversial or mixed reactions but I do think the writing for Monk Dol was just sophisticated enough and it feels like there's much care in the crafting of his character (my beloved Dol).
Kudos to Pup who plays Monk Dol as well, because I would have never guessed that he isn't a professional actor but the frontman of a rock band (funnily enough i've been listening to Potato (his band) forever but i didn't register that they're the same person until I started watching interviews and they start asking Pup about how does it feel to transform from a rock singer to a monk).
i shall end this ask with a gif encapsulating my exact reaction of Monk Dol's first Dhamma talk/sermon
