We went to an “Aggressive Dog Social” class and it was very interesting. Tossing up going again (timing conflicts with other dog stuff at current)
They have been running for a few years but recently relocated their facilities to a place near me and I just...stumbled across that part of their website while looking up local obed classes lmao.
Before going I double checked for red flags, e.g Cesar Millan terminology, dominance terminology, prong or electric collar obsessions, fake-’balanced’ terminology, wolf pack terminology, low number of qualified trainers etc and of course check out their reviews and any videos. What had caught my eye was that, while not all, a number of the aggressive dog cases were moving into off lead dog neutral and dog social behaviour. Off lead! With strange dogs! Immediately curious as off lead dogs remain such a trigger for Thistle and I.
I only saw the one orange flag in my research, which isn’t a deal breaker but is a concern for me. It looked like slip leads or head halters were mandatory off what I had seen. I do not use slip leads for choking fears and the ease with which they can dig into a dog’s throat (nerve damage much?). Nor does Thistle get headcollars because of the speed with which she can move. Especially considering Thistle has a small history of mindless panicking and hurting herself in a panic, I do not want a tightening noose around her neck. It has to have a break, minimum.
After lots of internal fretting I brought this concern up before attending and they agreed with me and said I was fine to use my traditional greyhound martingales. I appreciated that it wasn’t as mandatory as it looked. Didn’t even need to bring up my strangled pet trauma! So my "tools” for the class were: meatballs, standard lead, martingale, muzzle. Muzzles were also mandatory but considering the context of the class I am obviously not bothered with an actual safety device.
There were not any videos of the training itself, which I was lightly concerned about, but upon being brought into the training group I have been able to view the videos to look for shutdown behaviour, dogs being pushed beyond their coping skills etc. Thankfully I did not see any of that. Not perfect videos, but it gave me a chance to evaluate if it’s the kind of class I would risk putting Thistle in or if someone is gonna start yelling CONSEQUENCES at me (a phrase I am beginning to loath).
I’ve been enlightened reasons they are not public is because of privacy reasons for those in the video. At first I was hesitant on that but also I can respect that? Not all owners or bystanders want people to be plastering their training across social media. Especially not those in the middle of such serious behaviour modification or actual dangerous dog court cases (not saying anyone there was, just that this class is geared to genuinely dangerous dogs and not barky mcbark bark).
While attending, I could really see the serious cases they’re dealing with. While most of the dogs seemed to be the eye contact = WANNA FIGHT type of dog. There was one who I swear was a panther in another life. Gorgeous looking dog who was on the prowl the entire time. It was also predominantly bull breeds and mixes of, but that is likely also a part of the potential for injury being higher.
There were also some dogs who did not appear to be aggression cases, in addition to us (the fear case). The class itself was really well run. Previous class exits through one door while next class enters through another. Muzzles are on dogs before even entering the facility, all owners are respectful of space (something I find other dog classes, even the higher level obedience and sports ones, are not fully respectful of). Two experienced trainers on board and...an array of observers? I think they were partners to those handling the dog perhaps.
So much focus on safety. If someone, too focussed on their dog, is about to enter another person and dog’s space the trainers were really on top of preventing that. It happened only the once, but none of that leaving the owners to work it out - nipped in the bud. It was great safety management.
The class was 90% movement which is kind of opposite to obedience and even the lifestyle classes where so much is stationary and movement discouraged. This was good to see, it’s much harder for dogs to be aggressive or fearful when they’re moving. Especially when they’re moving away. Also, most of the dogs were rippling muscles and now I know why lmao.
The overall vibe I got was very BAT 2.0esque. When your dog chooses to disengage from another dog, move them away and reward/fuss over them. Be it pats or food or combo of.
BAT 2.0 is very pressure based, but also very positive training focussed on rewards, praise and reducing pressure (as a reward) while also building ability to cope under pressure (thus improving thresholds without crossing them and rehearsing the behaviour). However, hadn’t seen it done in this way before.
I think the trainer thought I was worried or nervous but honestly, Thistle was more upset over him than the dogs haha. Also, if the goals are to push the pressure threshold and balance it there, without forcing the dog to cross their current threshold and rehearse their behaviour so you have an excuse to correct them? I’m fine with that.
Some of the other dogs did hit threshold a couple of times. This is where it got a bit different to BAT2.0 but was still kind of similar. Owners basically waited it out - moving neither forward or back (I assume if someone was inadvertantly in someone elses space, space would be added for safety? Thankfully did not see a demo of that). When dog stopped going for the other or was able to control itself, lead was lengthened a little for looseness and walked away.
(Note for safety: always do your uturn in front of your dog, so you are between them and the other dog. This also cuts off their tunnel vision)
Dogs were allowed to vocalise and the like, but were not allowed to head towards the other dogs. I think one was growling for nearly an entire circuit of walking before he managed to get itself under control. But he kept walking with his owner. Honestly I don’t even mind the majority of these dogs are aggressive, their owners had such thoughtful and conscientious handling I wasn’t ever concerned for our safety. This is such a contrast versus sports classes and lifestyle classes when on occasion there is a dog who’s beyond “average” aggression levels and the owner’s handling isn’t quite up to scratch. They do not recognise the precursors to unsafe behaviour in their dog or the dogs around them that may set their dog off. So sometimes I feel unsafe next to those who are repeat cases and will switch things around to avoid being near them.
There was some stationary work or a dog-owner going opposite circle to everyone else but it was only ever one person and dog at a time and not like the whole class doing stationary positions at once. I can see this pretty useful and keeping the overall atmosphere chill and the trainers able to focus more on one person at a time if they struggle with a sit rather than ten people with ten dogs struggling to hold position.
(Thistle’s first stationary, she was too nervous to sit. So she was rewarded for front feet on the platform rather than pushing her beyond making her own choices. Her second time, she had warmed up and hopped on to the platform and sat).
It seems like after a few more of these classes, we might get to be transitioned up to the combined onlead-offlead aggressive dog social classes, as Thistle handled the whole thing rather well and seemed slightly curious about one of the dogs. That one looks primarily onlead and every now and then one of the dogs goes off lead.
NGL I would dearly love to have Thistle’s offlead around other dogs skills improved. Currently it’s only possible at events when she has her game brain on and she’s just thinking “do the heeling and tricks!”. But if it is confidence and a skill we can cultivate in her, it would be so good for social dog walks or more populated areas where there’s a chance of strange dogs approaching. I am optimistic, as we have had careful dog dates in the past with multiple strange dogs. She seemed to enjoy those, in a socially awkward kind of way. Structured, controlled and safe practice to improve her skills in that if it is something she is interested in? Please!
It would also let me better assess if that Welsh Springer is an option while she is still with us, or something I need to wait on. Selfish goals :)
