#qunarimeta

[broodwoof]

the qunari: a watsonian analysis of the idea that they will "go wild" without the structure of the qun

emphasizing the watsonian element of this! i am approaching this entirely in-world!

now, the basic idea as i understand it is that the qun teaches that the qunari - in this case, the implication being that it is the kossith themselves, not the human, elves, or dwarves who become qunari - will go "mad" without the strict structure of the qun. that there is a bloodlust that is inherent to their species, one that must be strictly controlled

i think saying that this is a load of bullshit is entirely fair, especially because it is an amazingly effective tool for the qun to use in order to control their people and that is reason enough for it to exist. but i also find it interesting to consider whether there is - or, more to the point, was - a grain of truth to this

if your inquisitor becomes a reaver, cassandra can tell you about members of her family. now, these are tales passed down, but she speaks of them consuming more and more dragon's blood and becoming increasingly impacted by it, even physiologically; that some of them even grow scales. but the main thing she is talking about is their bloodlust, their wildness, that they begin to lose control

the iron bull tells the inquisitor of a belief among the ben hassarath, that the tamassarans might have added some dragon blood into the mix so long ago

corypheus tells a qunari inquisitor that their blood is "engorged with decay" and that their race is not a race, it is a mistake (apparently kieran says something to a qunari inquisitor about how their blood does not belong to them!)

while this implies that the kossith might have stemmed from another race entirely, it may also refer to the act of mixing dragon blood into their racial makeup. or both! (personally i'm in the 'both' camp, but we just don't know for sure!)

but if we take what cassandra says to have any truth to it at all, it seems possible that the early alterations might have induced violent madness. in which case, the idea that the qunari/kossith are inherently prone to such madness may have been used as an excuse for the behavior of these early experiments (a way to avoid acknowledging that they were experiments at all, framing the dramatic behavior as stemming from something else entirely), or it might have been known at the time, but twisted and muddied by the passage of years and obfuscated by the qun as it grew to become what it is now, in-game

i have also seen people question whether the change was something ghilan'nain did to them, which is an intriguing possibility! going with that for a moment, the story might have been changed by the kossith themselves in order to erase that part of their history, the fact that they were, in this view, akin to lab experiments. perhaps they chose to tell their children, who told their children, and so on and so forth, that their "madness" was just inherent to their people, that it was a burden they had to live with and learn to control

now, do i think the iron bull or a qunari inquisitor would be prone to violent madness without the structure of the qun? no! do i think any of the qunari would be prone to that without the structure of the qun? no! but do i believe there might have been a time when that was at least sorta-kinda true? possibly!

and i certainly believe that the idea of it serves the qun wonderfully. take shathann: she left not out of any hatred for the qun, her work there, or the culture, but because she knew what they would do to taash, how they would use them. teaching the qunari that they will go mad without the qun is a damn good way to keep those like shathann to stay there, because in her case, if she believed she'd lose her mind, if she believed she might become violent towards taash, or if she believed taash might become a maelstrom of violence themselves, she might have stayed in place

i think that shathann is an interesting example of someone who can see through it, perhaps because of her position as a scholar, or perhaps she was just willing to take the risk. it's unclear! it is also entirely possible that the emphasis on this madness is stronger among the warriors and spies of the qun. there are many possibilities! but nonetheless, it's a good way to keep qunari as qunari, to frame a tal vashoth as a being who has lost control, who is a danger, a risk, a threat, a "mad dog" of sorts

[broodwoof]

The Qun, Gender, and Translation

please do not add hate to this post, bring up the art book, or bring up the books/comics. thank you!

(this was part of another upcoming meta but was frankly a tangent)

something i find personally interesting to consider is that a degree of translation is going on in the view of qunari having "male" roles and "female" roles; that, in qunlat, these are perhaps less strictly gendered and more that x role belongs to y type of person, but y is always a culturally-rooted term that is difficult to translate and over time becomes simplified, especially by outsiders, to male or female - and the qun is not particularly interested in being Known or Understood outside of conversion, in which there is clearly a long and ongoing process of teaching their ways

one version - given how tamassarans control procreation - could be titles/descriptions referencing the ability to bear children or to participate in their conception. and would, by outsiders, 100% be translated into "male" and "female" but may actually mean something else in qunlat... for instance, a qunari who can bear children only being known by a certain word after they begin menstruation and until they hit menopause, before and after which they are known by different terms, maybe!

because procreation is a fundamental consideration for societies, and is clearly, canonically a consideration of the qun and part of the duties of the tamassarans

and the iron bull is deeply rooted in qunari culture and has internalized it. i think that he probably understands that krem is not exactly aqun athlok in the way the qun would see it, but i also think that there is a degree of separation and a reason why bull refers to the charger's by masculine terms only, despite having multiple women

to him - as with sten in dao - a warrior is a masculine/translated-as-masculine profession; thus, warriors are men. there is 100% still a part of him that relies on that logic and that perception. i think that while he would get there in the end out of respect and a willingness to acknowledge things even when he doesn't fully understand them, bull would struggle a lot more with a trans woman as one of his chargers. krem makes sense to him, because krem is a man in a man's/translated-as-man's role

[broodwoof]

The Qunari as a Body

please do not add hate to this post, bring up the art book, or bring up the books/comics. thank you! note that this is a PURELY watsonian analysis

it's a fascinating concept, isn't it? an entire culture as a single whole. the qun is strict, demanding, and inflexible: so, too, are bodies. your blood has to do what blood does. your limbs have to do what limbs do. your brain has to do what brains do

of course, the qun as a cultural body is fully aware that each qunari is an individual. the triumvirate - the arishok, arigena, and ariqun - are themselves individuals, after all. i have never felt that the qun as a whole devalues the individuals within it, especially given how they recruit for various roles

unlike the dwarven caste system, the qun fills its roles through the recommendations of the tamassrans. tamassrans as a role are a keystone in qunari society: they choose who will breed with who in order to develop specific genetic traits, raise young qunari and provide education, and notably assign individual qunari to their role within the qun based on an assessment of the individual

thus, each individual is suited to their role within the broader society, which aids in smooth functioning. this, of course, does not preclude any problems... but compared to the dwarven caste system or the human system of lineage, qunari are given roles based on them as individuals rather than who they are born to or how

interesting to note here that both tevinter and the qun breed for select genetic traits. i don't think either group would care for the comparison! but it's still true

while they do not devalue the individual, they also do not value individual liberty over collective unity. nor do they value the lives of individuals over the goals of their society. specifically, the qun attempts to spread itself, to convert, and does so with an incredibly long-game approach to the matter

and this works for them at a social, cultural, and political level, because it is not about an individual in the government wanting something and trying to achieve it within their lifetime. the man we first knew as sten and later knew as the arishok is not trying to assimilate the world, but advancing the overall goals of the qun - the goals of the body - within his lifetime. the border skirmishes they have with tevinter are not a full assault because a full assault is not something the body deems necessary or useful

and since they seek conversion rather than destruction, invading and laying waste would be counterproductive. the qun is many things, but it is rarely if ever counterproductive

given their emphasis on the whole over the individual, there does not appear to be any cultural valuing of one group over another. the soldiers are not better or worse than the bakers, who are not better or worse than the stonemasons, who are not better or worse than the scholars, who are not better or worse than the priests. my arm is not better than my lungs

and the distinction between vashoth and tal-vashoth ties into this. as an entity which wants to convert, the qun sees those who are of "qunari" descent - ie the so-called-but-not-really "kossith," the horned giants we think of when we think about "qunari" - but who were born outside of it as potential converts. comparatively, tal-vashoth, those who have abandoned the qun, are seen as irredeemable. they appear to be the sole group who the qun views as irredeemable and unable to be converted. to know, really know, and to still reject the body appears to be the worst "crime," so to speak, one can commit against the qun

the perspective of the body also makes sense of the "aqun-athlok" thing. it is not a transgender identity, not as such, but the qun has gender roles within its culture. and if the tamassrans select someone for a role that goes against their gender, then that gender is changed; they are aqun-athlok. but even to say the gender is "changed" is inaccurate: i think it's more accurate to view it as the gender is revealed following the results of the assessment. genitalia doesn't matter to the qun, outside of the province of the tamassrans who selectively breed. gender identity does not matter to the qun. nonetheless, they do have gender roles in their society, and the gender is dictated by the role, not the other way around

to further this conversation, there is the potential that roles are not gendered in the way we think of things being gendered, but rather that qunlat has inherent distinctions between roles as part of their linguistic structure, distinctions that may not translate particularly well. which may have led to the shifting from "the tamassrans are [specific qunlat word]" to "the tamassrans are [rough translation to other languages]" to "the tamassrans are women" <- this has no basis in canon afaik, but is an interesting thought nonetheless, and not entirely unrealistic