This chapter was really exciting, wow... Phoenix managing to break through his body being controlled to yell for Joker to run, and then also pleading Hachi to stop what his body is being forced to do... Phoenix being possessed by some kind of evil alien being is REALLY fun. And then also there's Hachi who feels absolutely horrible that, despite vowing to become a phantom thief himself instead of just an apprentice, he couldn't protect Joker from being horribly hurt. I really want to see what happens in a situation where Hachi's gone off by himself to try to help Phoenix without Joker. It's super rare to see Hachi by himself during dangerous situations, and this will truly be Hachi's biggest (and most high stakes) test to see if he's anywhere near close enough to graduating. You can do it, Hachi!!
I think that there's something especially alluring about Lupin in some ways, since he's a character with more of an adult and dark undertone (under a guise of being a gentleman), in a cast of characters who have generally good hearts and youthful minds. I think that you can really make him dangerous... Maybe in a way that only an adult could be. He is suave, charismatic, and doesn't have a drive to do true evil, but I think that what makes him dangerous is his self-defined 'gentleman's way' and that you could write him as more of an opportunist; he becomes a friend of Joker, and Joker doesn't LOVE his company, but Joker is surprisingly overly-trusting and quick to forgive. Lupin becomes just one of the absolute weirdos that steals his food and his couch, and then he lets his guard down a little bit too much... Lupin could take advantage of that. It is actually very easy to hurt Joker if you know of his routine and when he lets his guard down.
Hachi is determined to be a good host and doesn't dislike Lupin, but it's true that something about Lupin does make him more nervous than other company...
It would be very cruel if one thing the siblings were never told about Rose's lineage is that witches of time don't die naturally or don't age past a certain point. What if Rose just suddenly stopped aging, and it slowly dawned on Shadow that his sister isn't changing at all? What if it wasn't her choice?
Ultimately that would mean that Rose would eventually find herself alone, if they couldn't find or didn't pursue a way to help her age naturally...
Maybe the only person with a familiar face would be Phoenix, if he'd ever visit Earth after Joker's passing.
Eternal youth and life, something coveted by most of humanity, is a miserable curse for Rose. As far as eternal life goes, Phoenix doesn't feel so strongly--but he deeply relates to some aspects of misery in an eternal life. It is exceedingly rare to meet a human who hates the idea of it.
I wonder if that would pique his interest enough to visit her... The only familiar face left from his times with Joker.
I think that Rose would kill for her brother's sake if it wouldn't make Shadow so sad. He emotionally beats himself up so horribly; he thinks he's impure and evil. He wants to protect Rose from that, and he would see it as his own failing if Rose felt driven to killing.
Rose believes in goodness and values life, but I think she has the potential to be truly scary.
Rose, who would balk in horror at the idea of hurting any innocent living creature, may eventually grow to dehumanize both her and especially Shadow's enemies.
Rose doesn't ever want to see her brother almost killed again, so if she thought that Shadow's life was in danger... Maybe she'd lose herself briefly. Shadow would witness the anger and darkness buried deep inside his sister's heart...
Her mind goes back to the time of her brother being shot and her being unable to save him or herself. Shadow sacrificed himself for years for her sake, going through things that she can't truly imagine... Rose won't ever put her brother through that again. She's determined to be strong... Evil people who threaten their lives don't deserve to continue living--they're just like the monsters who took their village and childhood away.
As Rose's bitterness, own guilt, and trauma begins to manifest in visible ways, she develops such worrying thoughts.
Shadow was trained to be a killer. But I like the idea that Rose, without being trained to kill, shows far more remorselessness and far less guilt once actually driven to it. That's what makes her scary.
So, after watching that second Coro Coro All-Star episode, my friend and I were joking about Joker being this (headcanoned) 16 year old surrounded by a bunch of elementary schoolers, and we started to talk about how funny pathetic Joker is because I can ABSOLUTELY SEE Joker hanging around and getting along with elementary schoolers because he's just so immature... well of course, until he doesn't get along with them, which is also inevitable.
For whatever reason, he's stuck hanging with some elementary schoolers for a period of time, and some of these kids think he's SO COOL, some even know him from TV broadcasts and news, so he might even be their bad influence idol.
Joker loves it when people worship and praise him--yes, even if they're kids because his personality is terrible--so he'd act like he doesn't care so much but he is LOVING the praise, and probably shows off a trick or two to the kids since they're being so insistent (he's annoyed, but not too much. Yet.)
Eventually one of the kids teases him or insults him because that's what kids do, because Joker inevitably does something that isn't COOL or the kid wants to be contrary about, and Joker, on the same level of an elementary schooler, gets into a 'I know you are but what am I' level of argument and petty squabble--
"Why do you wear a cape? Can't somebody grab it? What if it gets caught in something? Are you stupid?"
Joker gets INCREDIBLY offended, because capes are cool and he wouldn't make a rookie mistake like that. It's for the aesthetic. The cape is an incredibly important part of his outfit.
This kid basically calls his get-up cringe after that, 'it's worse than what a preschooler would make up', and that's when the argument completely breaks down.
The kid's just teasing him and saying kid things and Joker is trying to tell this kid how DISRESPECTFUL HE IS TO THE HISTORY OF PHANTOM THIEVES, DON'T YOU KNOW ALL THE BEST PHANTOM THIEVES WORE CAPES!?
and now you have a division of some ten year olds on his side nodding and going 'YEAH' and other ten year olds who are either completely disoriented or think it's really funny to tease Joker.
Initially the joke had started as 'Joker hangs with elementary schoolers because elementary schoolers understand him best' because his friends his age are SUCH A DRAG read: more mature and trying to hold him accountable and I do think he has much more shame and pride than to outright say he prefers to hang with elementary schoolers, but... Joker ends up indirectly saying this. dfjgiofgh
But of course he ends up actually around kids and they want to do kid things that he actually has grown out of a little bit, or they hit him back with his level of maturity, and then suddenly kids are AWFUL.
And if Hachi isn't there yet to do damage control, he arrives on the scene like JOKER'S MOM to pick up his disrespectful and terrible 16 year old child that is .5 seconds away from duking it out with a first grader.
And then of course when Joker's back on the Sky Joker he gets The Earful from Hachi where he's lectured for a good thirty minutes about accountability and maturity, Hachi who is probably no older than 11 but easily three times more mature in any given circumstance.
And of course this lecture is happening while Hachi is COOKING DINNER FOR JOKER in his FRILLY PINK APRON while Joker is stuck on the couch (if Joker moves or tries to sneak away Hachi gets scary stern because he needs to SIT THERE and be lectured so Joker is STUCK. ON. THAT. COUCH- or else Hachi's going back to live with his parents and if this sounds like a marital dispute that's not my fault djfogijh)
An exploration: a scenario where Jack has more time to bond with Cyan and Rose (and its potential impact on the story)
Below is what was originally a conversation that I had with a friend, cleaned up to be slightly more comprehensible and easy to read. With that in mind, it may read slightly oddly or stilted in some areas. There is messiness in the writing due to it originally being written collaboratively in a conversational context. Still, I hope the idea is clear and can be enjoyed!
(Also, this one's pretty angsty, so heads up for the usual Shadow-related angst. There's some violence and a close main character death, but no actual death or bad end.)
Instead of Jack finding the witch village and the village being raided that day, Jack is allowed to bond with Cyan and Rose over a period of months. Secrecy is incredibly important in this case, but Rose has taken such a liking to the boy that she urges Cyan to welcome Jack and similarly wants him to visit again... And so, when Jack can manage it, he sneaks away to the witch village and spends time with Cyan and Rose. Cyan's dream is to one day travel the world... Of course, Jack has such a plan ahead of him, too. Together, having started to form something of a genuine friendship, they make a lighthearted pledge to one another that when they get older they’ll travel the world together.
During one of Jack's visits, he's unintentionally led Clover directly to the village—a mysterious boy consistently going to a 'hidden' place was something that ended up being tracked... And so, the events of the anime play out. In this case, the loss of Cyan and Rose is even more deeply traumatic. It is not something he so easily forgets... Cyan still becomes 'Shadow Joker', but there is so much more pain and conflict with the exchange. Especially when you can plausibly shift more genuine blame on Joker, even if it still truly wasn’t something you could reasonably call ‘his fault’ outside of Shadow’s grieving and traumatized perspective.
Of course now, he's had so much more time to learn what that boy was like in the past—people change, but they used to be true friends. They promised to travel the world together.
And I want Shadow to be more unstable in this scenario, for him to be able to hide that's he's suffering less. During one of his fights with Joker, he accidentally makes an earth-shattering mistake—enough to make it obvious that he's not going after Joker solely of his own volition. It devastates Shadow... because Shadow knows what the stakes are, and what such a slip means. He retreats from Joker and is unable to defeat him... and Clover knows of Shadow's grave mistake, having Shadow closely watched. He ties Shadow up and beats and injures him far more severely than he ever has before.
Eventually, Joker and the other phantom thieves manage to invade Clover's base (with assumption that a lot of events happen differently to canon), everyone's broken up into different areas—so it's just Joker who finds Shadow, alone. Tied up, bloody, like a ruined soulless doll. Horrified but with years of training that’s allowed him the ability to push through initial responses of shock to respond as needed, Joker is able to promptly attempt to untie Shadow, who appears barely conscious.
Joker speaks but the words meld together in Shadow’s brain, incomprehensible. He doesn't understand anything except the a phrase that turns his blood ice cold: ‘I'm going to help you.'
Joker is able to free Shadow from his restraints, but as he's doing this, Shadow is becoming more aware and just as steadily, more panicked—he can't let Joker save him, Clover's going to find out; Clover's going to find out and he's going to kill Rose—he already messed up and put her life at risk…!
And so, despite Joker attempting to save the boy from certain death at the hands of Clover, Shadow makes a move to kill Joker.
Joker is likely only able to catch the brief glint of something reflective that slips out from Shadow’s bloodied sleeve—and Joker is stabbed with a sharp dagger.
Shadow looks so withered and fragile—he's stabbed Joker, an effort to take his life, but he's shaking so terribly... He chokes out a sound akin to a sob. The sort of panicked, tortured crying that's breathless and like hyperventilation... not loud, but so intense. I want Shadow to have had the opportunity to stab Joker in a place that would have sealed the deal. But Shadow's notably stabbed Joker in a spot that would certainly leave him alive—though dead if not treated relatively soon.
And I think... Joker is prudent in this way. Joker would understand very quickly why Shadow would be so reluctant to trust him. Rose's absence didn't get past him. Joker is the type to have likely pointed it out long before this point, and so he'd cough and groan, and then choke out, "I get it... That bastard's got Rose, hasn't he? You can't ask for help because you're the only one who can protect her."
He's struggling to speak, but he might even... Smirk a little bit. Because Joker gets it. It's so cruel, it's so fucked up—he honestly should have seen it sooner. That Shadow was placed here as bait by that horrible monster of a man, everything orchestrated so that Shadow would be forced to make an attempt on Joker’s life.
And Shadow… despises himself. He trembles in a culmination of pain, terror, and adrenaline—he hates Joker, but not like this. Shadow’s killed, but he's never wanted to.
I think it's possible that Shadow, especially this Shadow, would become jealous of Joker's miracles. He always comes out unscathed. He's always in control. If he just had Joker’s abilities…
He really wishes he could take Joker's life. Take his abilities, his brilliance. Ruin Joker for how Joker ruined him. Save Rose and disappear together.
… but another part of him wishes to be friends with Joker again, and beg for his help.
Surely if anyone could find an opening to defeat Clover, it would be Joker...
Shadow steeled himself and held the dagger with the genuine intent to kill—despair and such hatred flickering in his eyes as the opportunity he’s sought for so long presented itself—but as he brought it down, despite it being something that would have been so easy .... He misses the intended spot.
And he's not that clumsy, even in his injured state. Clover made sure to leave him uninjured enough to do what was needed of him.
The part of his brain so spiteful, so jealous, so full of hatred, battling with the part that's SCREAMING to be saved—and that conflict of mind is enough.
—Of course, I want Joker to still save Shadow. Shadow, who attempted to kill him even when Joker was attempting to save him… However differently things may turn out in this scenario compared to canon, in the end, Shadow and Rose are still saved, and Joker manages to get the help he needs in time. Just as it’s the case in canon, Joker and Shadow have a bumpy, difficult relationship. As two boys who struggle to voice their emotions and make themselves vulnerable, with as much pride and trauma that they have attached to vulnerability (in different but distinct ways), becoming ‘friends’ in the way that their childhood selves had gradually been becoming appears to be an unlikely thing to occur.
But also their own very individual ways, especially with how forgiving Joker is and how glad he just is to have the two safe and sound, I like to imagine that slowly there is an unspoken trust and bond formed that helps the emotional scars heal over a bit… A post-saving-Rose dynamic between them may gradually become a bit friendlier than what’s shown in canon—and as a trio, I think it may be possible for there to be a bit more naturalness to their interactions (that doesn’t result in Joker being quite as frequently uptight and awkward).
They will need to talk about what's been left unsaid eventually, though...
(Holly crap i still can't believe my favorite tumblr replied to my answer)
I kinda have a lot of headcanons for joker.
Another one i have is that joker has cousins, it felt weird that we never seen any family member besides his parents, so that's where i got it from. They're like besties so when joker was declared missing as a kid of course it's heat shattering to his entire family. Until they're like older (maybe around his age but one of them is adult and have a family?) They started to speculate that joker is jack, their cousin.
Also, i realized i once headcanon that his grandpa has a rough relationship to all his family, especially joker's. Cus he doesn't approve his dad's marriage with his mom.
I still want them to reunite, so maybe captain blue (if you remember that guy) started a conversation with joker and akai (don't ask why i put him there, i don't know either) about his grandpa and stuff
Blue: that's basically about him, how about you? Is he still around?
Joker: i don't know, i didn't get to meet him for years, not even the rest of my... Family.
Blue: ... Meet them now.
So that's basically why he decides to reunite with them... Well not really but uhm.
Hello! If you mean my blog, I'm incredibly flattered, wow... thank you! It's just me posting some drawings and simple thoughts from time to time. I wasn't sure if anyone would really appreciate my KJ scenarios, but I'm very thankful that at least a few people do. My ideas are not for everyone as the things I explore tend to veer more towards dark and offputting premises and exploration of morally grey character psychology (I especially love to explore this in 'good' characters). Still, I have many more things to share, and I hope you might enjoy those scenarios eventually, too. ^^ (My creation process is just extremely slow unfortunately)
As for your idea... I've explored Joker potentially having more family, too! This is one of those anime protagonist things that I've otherwise shrugged off, you know how families outside of mother and father don't usually get talked about... one time I explored the idea that Joker had actually been adopted at a very young age, or that there was some kind of secret in the family that Jack would really never know about, maybe in relation to the time-telling goddess, where their family was very secretive and disconnected.
I really, really like the idea that Lupin is Joker's ancestor too, so their entire family is just full of all sorts of secrets. If you're curious about this, I've gone more in-depth here.
I wonder what Joker thinks about all of these secrets and odd little things that he only identifies in retrospect once he gets older? Time naturally fades his memory, but certain things that went right over his head suddenly don't seem as simple as they once were... Did Joker actually ever know his family? If his mom and dad hadn't been taken from him at such a young age, would they have told him more about themselves later on?
I think once he reaches an age where he begins to have these realizations, he would go through a more subtle second wave of grief.
---
But if Joker found out that he had living family, especially if he finds this out when he's older and already a well established phantom thief... What does he think about in such a circumstance? I think his initial reaction is disbelief, because of how many people there are who would want to deceive him. But beyond this, I feel like his reaction wouldn't be as simple as just him being overjoyed once he's convinced it isn't trickery.
Of course Joker is happy.
...But another part of him, the part who thought that he had 'moved on' from that chapter of his past, is terribly conflicted. He went through the steps already. He grieved and moved on and came out stronger.
But now he has family again?
With family comes emotional obligation and also the stress of protecting that family, of the potential grief of losing that family... of connecting with that family being dangerous with his way of life, where hundreds of people would be incredibly happy to hear that 'Phantom Thief Joker' has something that can be used as blackmail. He puts that family at risk.
It's never as simple as being 'overjoyed'.
Not when you're also a boy who's grown up with complicated feelings on emotional vulnerability, where being too vulnerable or too personal is far too uncomfortable, and being too emotional risks him developing weaknesses that will get him killed on heists. (I've talked about this before but I mention it a lot because of how much I think this impacts so much of Joker's actions and his personality, especially with how thoughtless he can be with people around him).
I think that Joker might find his own conflicted emotions offensive to even himself... where he wonders what's wrong with him to some extent, not being totally happy that he has surviving biological family.
What kind of person would he have to be to think that that's a pain, in any way?
Joker isn't the type to dwell on things but he'd stew in it ever so slightly.
For him, family is a more sensitive topic than any other.
I'm thinking more about Shadow and I feel like the ways that he could interact with Queen isn't as well explored as it could be...
I do like that they remain distant in a way, because considering the stakes for Shadow, it makes a lot of sense. I like to imagine that even though Queen is also distant and grieving what she believes her reality to be, she still approaches Shadow with a sense of curiosity... and Shadow completely closes her off. He makes it clear that he has zero interest in building a bond with her, or talking at all.
It has a lot to do with the fact that if Shadow talks too much to Queen, lets anything slip at all that could turn Queen against Clover, it could put his and Rose's life at risk...
...and Queen's.
Shadow 'doesn't care', but I don't think he wants to be responsible for Clover slaughtering this girl because he let himself become too talkative.
Sometimes I also think about, long after season 2, maybe Shadow is in a situation where he's with Queen and others in a lower stakes, casual situation where they're not fighting for once... and Shadow looks at Queen while in a bit of a strange mood--and he feels a sense of relief wash over him, seeing this bright and cheery girl with such beautiful, shining eyes and incredible energy. In this way, she's a bit like Rose, which he can always admire and appreciate.
She's relatively untouched--Clover never really tainted Queen.
And with this thought he feels an unexpected wave of violent envy... it rattles him and makes it hard to breathe. His entire body stiffens and he freezes.
Why did she survive untouched? Why is she different? Why did Queen cross paths with Clover but come out of it fine?
The torment that Shadow has gone through bubbles to the surface and threatens to choke him. He's so broken and his sister has lost years of her life and most of her childhood and yet Clover manipulates this girl, the granddaughter of Silver Heart... to almost no true damage to Queen herself.
Clover could have been rougher. He could have easily been more hands on. Clover was so perversely obsessed with trying to kill Silver Heart in the most emotionally destructive way--one method being by making his own granddaughter kill him--that he went through such trouble to keep her naive and on his side.
But he could have been crueler.
...And of course, just as soon as his mind has filled with this venom, maybe Rose or someone else gets his attention. Maybe he looked uncomfortable or upset. Queen is completely unaware of the way that Shadow was staring at her. Even though it isn't effortless, he pushes these thoughts aside in a practiced way.
Of course, these thoughts still linger, even as he's distracted himself with something else...
