#rots meta

[dinerkenobi]

Mustafar vs. Endor: Obi-Wan & Luke’s Love for Anakin

I know we all love the parallel between Padme and Luke’s recognition of the goodness within Darth Vader/Anakin Skywalker, but while listening to the latest episode of the @mostthingskenobi podcast, it occurred to me that there are similar parallels between Obi-Wan and Luke. They’re both asked to kill Anakin for the greater good, but in the end, both love him too much to kill him. Granted, Obi-Wan’s feelings toward Anakin are more complicated than the pure hearted empathy and compassion Luke has for this father; at that moment, it’s clear that Obi-Wan almost views Anakin as already dead, as if Darth Vader is merely a shell stripped of the humanity and goodness that was his friend. But I believe that his love for Anakin is so strong in that moment that he can’t bear to strike down Anakin’s empty shell, just as Luke can’t bring himself to kill his own father because of his love for him. I would even go as far as to argue that in the same way that Luke’s love for his father is what leads him to ultimately lay down his weapon and refuse to kill Vader, Obi-Wan’s love for the good man that was Anakin Skywalker is what motivates him to take up Anakin’s lightsaber.

Hopefully we’ll see how that love might have inspired Obi-Wan to make a last-ditch effort to redeem Anakin in the Kenobi series, but we’ll have to wait and see!

[blackwomeninstarwars]

Anti-Blackness in the Star Wars community is cyclical in nature. 

Compare how Obi-Wan holding himself responsible for Anakin’s fall is met with an overabundance of sympathy and empathy, while there’s a greater inclination to vilify Cere Junda for holding herself accountable for Trilla’s fall,and for not immediately telling Cal about her relationship with Trilla. Despite the game making it explicit that Cere and Trilla were victims of circumstance, fandom is all too eager to absolve Trilla of any responsibility in her choice to become an Inquisitor.

Anti-Blackness in the Star Wars community is cyclical in nature.

Debora Wilson is constantly called “ugly”, “bug eyed”, or “manly” across the spectrum of the JFO fandom the same way the ST fandom (and employees working at Ubisoft) have compared John Boyega to a monkey, or called him sleazy for preferring to date Black women.

Anti-Blackness in the Star Wars community is cyclical in nature.

Whenever the anti-Blackness of the reylo community is exposed (again), they’ll move quickly to cover it up by “showing appreciation” for Finn for a moment by praising the film (and director) that undermined his character (and worse), Blocking Black fans that question their motives, rewrite history to valorize themselves (as white fandom does), then default to the usual behavior.

Anti-Blackness in the Star Wars community is cyclical in nature. 

Rogue One’s Cassian Andor’s “gray morality”and self-sacrifice for the Rebellion makes him a complex character, but in the same film Saw Gerrera is “too extreme” and re-characterized as quasi-villainous in later material (Rebels and JFO).

Anti-Blackness in the Star Wars community is cyclical in nature.

Jannah is given the cold shoulder by LucasFilm (her narrative gutted not once, but twice), and transformed into the BBF by non-Black fanfic writers or she’s killed off in sloppy TLJ AUs, her dynamic with Finn ignored to keep him orbiting around Poe or Rose.

Anti-Blackness in the Star Wars community is cyclical in nature. 

As Black fans enter then leave the circle as a result of white fandom’s toxicity, it reliably maintains no many how many years or how many ‘norms’ change at a snail’s pace.

[amyltia]

TROS’s Ben as a mirror to Anakin’s arc or what is a Skywalker ?

This is going to be a serie of meta about “Why the ST does the job as a conclusion”. This is number 1 about Ben and Anakin.

I think Ben embodies the good and the bad of Anakin. The bad by being Kylo Ren and the good because in TROS everything about Ben (exept the Solo moves) reminds of Anakin's arc.

1. Echoing Anakin’s arc

Kylo’s redemption takes place at the same place Vader’s did

and their big shift echoe each other in reverse : while Anakin falls surrounded by lava and fire, Ben rises surrounded by water.

his big gesture is to save the one he loved only unlike Anakin he succeeds. 

I really thought the filmmakers had some heavy reasons for chosing in the very same scene : water + death star 2 + rey/kylo fight + Ben’s redemption, but I couldn’t get it. Now I think they actually made Ben’s redemption mirror (1) Vader’s redemption in ep 6 (2) Anakin’s fall in ep 3 = those two absolutely opposite scenes and two pivot moments of Anakin’s arc both condensed in the one scene of Ben’s redemption.

In that Ben holds the WHOLE symbolism of Vader. Ben’s redemption mirrors both the redemption AND the fall of Vader, complete the circle. It makes Ben the core and the knot of all Vador and Anakin’s symbolism (going way deeper than just Vador’s symbolism with just the mask or the fall to the dark side or having a dark mentor). Ben is the bearer of this symbolism showing that he is the legacy of Anakin and mirrors him.

2. Fixing Anakin’s arc

The great thing about Ben when he is Ben Solo is that he carries all Anakin's arc symbolism and repairs it, he succeeds where Anakin failed.

Anakin has two faults/made two mistakes : (1) he turned to the dark side (as Vader he repairs it with the help of Luke) (2) “love won’t save [Padme] only [his] new power can” : he failed to save Padme by chosing power over love to do it (I read in a youtube comment that he chose love untiil he had power, while Ben chose power until he had love, I think that’s very true - I’ll add the name of the one said that I). This second mistake is also repaired by Vader when he chooses his love for his son over the power of Palpatine, but while it satisfiying, it actually can get even more satisfying, and that is what TROS did.

While the character of Kylo longed to connect with Vader, in this redemption scene he is absolutely connected to him, if not narratively, at least symbolicaly (and we know how heavy the symbolism is on Star Wars). Sure we knew that Kylo mirrored Vader but I didn’t realize how deep it went, until I realized this redemption scene in TROS is more than nostalgia, it’s a knot to the story of the Skywalker.

The ST belongs truly to the saga because it ANSWERS to it, it replays the OT and repairs the PT. The ST make the saga complete by forming an actual synthesis. Ben reunites the whole story of Anakin and replays it but this time he repairs it because in the end he succeeds where Anakin failed, he saved Rey.

3. Fixing the Skywalker’s lineage : saving the one they love as a trial

With Ben fixing Anakin’s arc, the Skywalker’s story comes full circle : Luke saved Vador (and Anakin) but it was Ben who repaired Anakin’s faults, who made amends for him. By going the same way but chosing a different path, suffering similar pains but overcoming them the right way.

The fall of the Skywalker that was caused by Anakin’s desire to save the loved one from death is balanced by Ben’s success in the same project and that led to the rise of the Skywalker. Meaning that it is the same desire that led to the fall of the Skywalker (the “start” by Anakin’s failure) and their rise (the “finish” by Ben’s success).

It’s not relevant because the quote didn’t mean that at first but I think it’s sweet to consider Kylo’s “I will finish what you started” as putting and end to the Skywalkers miseries as well, miseries Anakin started (Padme died of sadness, Vador destroyed Leia’s planet, he cut Luke’s hand, almost killed Han and deprived Luke and Leia of their parents, adding to the fact that Vader wasn’t such a nice guy on his free time).

The Skywalker destiny would be tied and defined by this desire. To go further, it would be a trial that this time by choosing self giving and not power, Ben succeeded. This trial, like in a fairy tale, twice passed by the Skywalkers, finaly get the correct answer in TROS. In that manner Ben allowed the Skywalker name to RISE.

4. The Rise of Skywalker : yes but which Skywalker ?

I like to think that the tilte The Rise of Skywalker is, according to Ben’s arc  :

Ben reparing Kylo and emerging as Ben Solo Skywalker (with the legacy saber) -> from the sequel trilogy point of view it is Kylo rising as Ben aka if we say rise = repair (which is parlty my point) than Ben repairing Kylo Ren

But also, Ben repairing Anakin, first representative of the Skywalker and the one who failed and caused all their following misery (Leia had difficulties to forgive Vador) -> on the scale of the saga I like to think it could be Anakin rising as Ben aka (and more correclty) Ben repairing Anakin.

Note : I don’t forget Rey, she makes the Skywalker name rise too but differently, by inverting the Palpatine curse of turning Skywalker to the dark side : link)

(Extended version of something I replied on tumblr about Ben and Anakin, with a comment I made on youtube)

Other main meta

Force jump/flying (TROS meets The Rise of Kylo Ren or Kylo Ren finally meets his peer in Rey)

[amyltia]

Force jump/flying (TROS meets The Rise of Kylo Ren or Kylo Ren finally meets his peer in Rey) - part 2

The original meta that has the 1. 2. 3. points explained and detailled is there (it’s the part 1) : https://amyltia.tumblr.com/post/613521702738182144/force-jumpflying-tros-meets-the-rise-of-kylo-ren

So I will only complete with the point 4. and the conclusion in this post

1. In The Rise of Kylo Ren : Ben is special and different from the students

[...]

2. BUT in The Rise of Skywalker : Ben is special, but so is Rey, they are different from others but not from each other

[...]

3. Definition of a dyad : the line is always outside the dyad

[...]

4. I’d like to compare it to the force jumps in the rest of the saga :

PT : Obiwan  and Anakin both do it if I remember correclty, and yet it doesnt feel  like in does in TROS. Probably because in the trilogy we see many others jedi and characters do it (Yoda during his fight, etc.) So it doesnt  connect Obi and Ani specifically but it shows their belonging to a  community of others jedi (still making it painful in ROTS when they fight the same way, as real brothers, belonging to the same community  and by using the same abilities on both sides it shows the destruction  of the community they belong to, and the division, the fact that Anakin is dividing himself from this community). WHILE in the ST case Rey and  Ben are the only ones who we have seen do it (we havent even seen Luke do it) so it makes them both special. And with TROKR we understand HOW  MUCH special it is indeed.

OT : The only force users are Obiwan, Darth Vader, Palpatine, Yoda and Luke. If I’m correct the only one to jump force is Luke and not much. He does it in ESB in his duel with Vader and maybe in ROTJ (or maybe he just jumps ? not sure) but he is the only one. It doesn’t make him belong to any group, and in the force users group it isolates him : he is the last jedi, the NEW one, but also  the only one. His force jumps shows the desolation of the jedi order :  it does belong to the past, the force users shown are only old men, none force jumps (or do they ? not sure) : Luke is a vestige, the symbol of a  group that is gone, he truly is the last jedi in ROTJ, his group is dead. His force jump isolate him : from non force user (aka the rest of  the galaxy) and inside the force users group, he is the only young one. Correct me if I’m wrong, does anyone else force jump in the OT ?

Conclusion :

The use of force  jump allows to draw lines between characters, telling many different things : the loneliness of a extraordinary character (Ben  but also Luke - who does end up the last of his kind in ROTJ, in this  bittersweet ending. Next it could be interesting to compare Ben and  Luke’s isolation I), the split of a group (Obiwan and Anakin, both jedi members), the foundation of a new group (the dyad), etc.

Comparing episode 6 and episode 9′s force jumps : Luke is the only one to force jump, Ben and  Rey are the only ones to force jump. But Ben dies, so in the end Rey ends up with the  same status as Luke : she is the lonely last jedi once again (but Luke  didn’t have a dyad, Rey does, she is not really alone).

Very different is the end of episode 3, it ends with the split of the remaining force jumpers into light side (Yoda, Obi wan) and dark side (Anakin, Palpatine), announcing a conflict in the next episode, the characters are isolated in groups but this groups collide so it’s not truly an isolation, more like a separation but still inside the very coherent group of force users.

Of course as prequels episode 3 wasn’t a real ending, unlike episodes 6 and 9. So why does Star wars always end with one last jedi, isolated ? It’s actually a real question, feel free to answer ! I’ll maybe try a meta on that later I

[mannersmakethharvey]

So my gf and I watched Revenge of the Sith the other day and I realized that, during the climax when obi-wan is headed to Mustafar and Yoda is about to confront palpatine that a lot of Yoda’s dialogue could be interpreted as “I know we failed anakin and there may be a chance to bring him back so I’m going to give my life fighting the Lead Dickhead (who I know will best me) so that Kenobi can go see if the attachment between him and Minor Dickhead is enough to bring him back to the Light” and I can’t stop thinking about it and I don’t want to have to write the fix that explores this concept I want to read it.